Gateway tunnels now expedited + East river tunnels + Other Gateway projects

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Reinstating the West Shore suburban service?  Has anybody proposed how the commuters would get from Manhattan to Weehawken?

[NKP guy]

Perhaps by ferry boats?  I think there's a precedent.

[blue streak 1]

More problems this morning not completely tunnel fault.  A vehicle fire in Lincoln tunnel caused a big back up and many buses destined to PA bus terminal took passengers to Secacus to transfer.  Then a NJT train stalled in a tunnel causing a one tunnel operation.  Even though Manhatten direct trains diverted to Hoboken overcrowding unbelievable.

Another op ed in NJ about Christie's meeting tomorrow with Foxx and another NY times editorial.

http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/turning-his-attention-to-the-tunnel-1.1393230

 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/17/opinion/build-a-new-hudson-river-tunnel.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=1

 Wonder if the stall was because of CAT power problems or a NJT trains having problems ? 

[MidlandMike]

CSSHEGEWISCH

Reinstating the West Shore suburban service?  Has anybody proposed how the commuters would get from Manhattan to Weehawken?

 

The Weehawken Tunnel has been taken over by the light rail.  There is a light rail station and ferry servce at Port Imperial/Weehawken.  Much of the WS yard area has been redeveloped.  I presume commuter rail could continue on CASO to a new connection with the Hoboken line.

[daveklepper]

The proposal to revive West Shore service is Hoboken  - Havestraw

[blue streak 1]

This may have been poated before but gives a good overview of the Gateway project including Penn south ( note 2 levels of track and rail line to east river), New north river tunnels, Portal bridge, 4 tracks from Hudson river to Newark, Bridges in Md and some items NE if NYP.

http://nec.amtrak.com/sites/default/files/2015-08-10%20Gateway_NJSenate%20Final.pdf

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Little more information about tour Amtrak gave to unknown officials Monday showing some tunnel problems & maybe other items.  One nugget was that the cable that failed that Monday in July was not found for 5 days due to being located in a collasped terra cotta duct.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/dreadful-commute-sets-stage-for-tunnel-talks-1.1393927

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Meeting:::   Officials promise co-operation ???

http://www.northjersey.com/news/officials-promise-to-work-together-on-hudson-river-river-tunnel-1.1394072

EDIT:  Something that needs pointing out to the media.  The whole Gateway project is estimated to cost $20B.  The new tunnels will cost somewhat less although after cost over runs ???.  But the tunnels are undoubtley the most critical at this time..  

 

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Huffington  post  article on Christie's tunnel decisions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chris-christies-tunnel_55ccc675e4b0cacb8d333496?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592&kvcommref=mostpopular

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Cuomo and Foxx go head to toe.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/08/19/cuomo-hudson-tunnel/

[blue streak 1]

The bad news just keeps coming.  Amtrak's VP for NEC infrastructure states that the 2 East river tunnels that flooded during "Sandy" are actually in worse condition than the North river tunnels.  Article lists the many LIRR delays sice "Sandy"

http://www.amny.com/transit/payout-cap-on-sandy-damage-may-delay-rehab-of-tunnels-used-by-lirr-1.10756774

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Bloomberg article on a press visit to one of the tunnels.  Note:  difficulties to replace 12 Kv cable.  Also that reporters got drenched by falling water. Also tunnel twists trapping cable.  So how much water is leaking into each tunnel ?  Hope Amtrak has more than one high capacity pump available.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-21/inside-the-hudson-rail-tunnel-decay-water-and-a-power-puzzle

 

Time for all the Pols to take the tour?

 

[zkr123]

This may sound dumb but why can't we make NY, NJ, and CT pay for the tunnels split the cost three ways. I add CT into the mix because they want to run Metro-North services into Penn Station at some point. 

[daveklepper]

Sure, get Connecticut to help with the East River tunnels, and get Massachusetts and Rhode Island to help pay for the replacement Connecticut drawbridges, and get Maine and New Hampshire to help pay for the North Station - South Station tunnel.   Go ahead and try!  I will be rooting for you, for whatever it is worth.

[rcdrye]

New Hampshire doesn't help pay for Downeaster and Vermonter now.

[MidlandMike]

zkr123

This may sound dumb but why can't we make NY, NJ, and CT pay for the tunnels split the cost three ways. I add CT into the mix because they want to run Metro-North services into Penn Station at some point. 

 

Because all 3 states think that the feds should pay a major share.

[Wizlish]

zkr123

This may sound dumb but why can't we make NY, NJ, and CT pay for the tunnels split the cost three ways.

In part because a substantial part of the traffic through those tunnels benefits states other than the three you mention. 

It would certainly be possible to design a trans-Hudson tunnel that would predominantly benefit New York and New Jersey; in my opinion the ARC tunnel that went to 'Macy's basement' was an example of this.  To me, that design idea makes very little sense -- if you are going to spend billions of dollars on a tunnel crossing, make it something that Amtrak and other longer-distance services, in particular Philadelphia trains, can utilize.  But then what is the Pennsylvania percentage of the tunnel's construction bill?  Delaware's or Maryland's?  Amtrak's, for that matter?

My own opinion is that there is some percentage of traffic through a 'Gateway' tunnel that would be attributable to strictly regional trains, and hence be NY/NJ and Port Authority responsibility.  To a lesser extent, there is intercity traffic between Pennsylvania and New York ('Clockers' and Harrisburg service, predominantly) that could involve Pennsylvania state financing.  Almost all the rest, including just about anything involving Connecticut, is appropriately the kind of "interstate" service best handled via Federal contributions.

Much of what is now happening is a kind of intricate political dance intended to minimize the actual amount states, particularly New York State, would actually pay to get the Amtrak-optimized Gateway project.  (Remember this is more than just the tunnels; the Portal Bridge project in particular, the construction funding for which will benefit primarily New Jersey, is a big-ticket necessity.)  It is not surprising to find that states with a large laundry list of their own largely unfunded infrastructure projects would look to a presumptively stimulus-minded Federal government to provide them substantial subsidies for this, and not just what amounts to short-term loans.

[blue streak 1]

Cuomo finally responds.  Guess he might be feeling a small amount of heat from NY voters ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/25/opinion/from-governor-cuomo-build-a-new-rail-tunnel.html?_r=0

 

 

[wanswheel]

3rd paragraph of Cuomo’s letter to the Times, with his possible thoughts in brackets

“Indeed everyone [commuting in from New Jersey] says we need the tunnel — but everyone has been saying that for 10 years, and therein lies the challenge. There is a wide gap between politicians saying they will do something and actually getting it done. The replacement of the Tappan Zee Bridge and the reconstruction of La Guardia Airport are prime examples [of projects that will benefit more residents of New York than of New Jersey or any other state]. They were spoken about for decades but nothing happened. Now, under this administration [and consuming all my not-my-tunnel money], they are finally taking place.”

[daveklepper]

He lost me when transit lanes were removed from the Tappan Zee Bridge replacement.

[blue streak 1]

Schumer wants $550m unspent "Sandy " funds to go to Amtrak for East river tunnel repairs.  At least with these funds Amtrak could lose one tunnel at a time and not cause too much problems for LIRR.

http://nypost.com/2015/08/24/schumer-wants-550m-sandy-funds-handed-over-to-amtrak/

 

[MidlandMike]

A note about big infrastructure spending.  Yesterday the Detroit Free Press had a story about a recent shutdown of one of the two locks still used at the Soo Canal. The smaller lock was out of service for 20 days.  Luckily the larger lock (the only one that can handle the "thousand footers" which carry 70% of the tonage) stayed open, except for about one hour.  Virtually all of the US mined iron ore goes thru this canal, plus much western coal and US and Canadian grain.  Its so important that Congress authorized the construction of a second large lock 30 years ago, however, they have not authorized the funding.  The Army Corps of Engineers spends less than $2 Billion a year on such navagaton projects, and has a project backlog of $60 billion.  The article lists higher priority projects that will be advanced this year.  It appears that Congress only spends money on infrastructure that has failed, or is in imminent danger.  I would guess they will not spend money on any new Hudson rail tunnel until one of the present tunnels becomes unusable.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/08/29/soo-locks-shutdown-expansion/71392210/

 

[blue streak 1]

Suprize Coumo and Christie issue a joint letter to Obama on funding the Gateway tunnels.  Not clear if this include all the Newark -  NYP improvements.  Now if this can get congress moving which I highly doubt.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/governor.ny.gov/files/atoms/files/Joint%20_Letter_To_President.pdf

 

 

[Dakguy201]

While I can appreciate that it is time we got started on new tunnels and recognize that it is inevitable that the majority of the money will be fed bucks, I think it is important the level of federal participation be capped, and that any cost overruns be handled by New Jersey/New York.  I'd even be willing for the feds to contribute the entire cost estimate of $20 billion, but not a cent more under any circumstances.

I am deeply concerned that without that provision this will become another Big Dig subject to endless delays and cost overruns. 

[blue streak 1]

Engineering report of North river tunnels and maybe some of East river.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/241718975/NYC-Tunnels-Assessment-Report

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Another failure of CAT power which seems to have occurred in one of the tunnls.

http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2015/09/amtrak_power_problem_causes_delays_before_pm_rush.html#incart_river

 

[blue streak 1]

Star ledger cartoon and short editorial.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/09/light_at_the_end_of_the_rail_tunnel_sheneman_carto.html#incart_river

 

 

[blue streak 1]

ABC news report that Foxx is trying to get scope of Gateway project.  Seems that there is some question which parts would be done first or all completed at same time.  Many sources have indicated that the 2 new tunnel bores, 4 tracking to Newark Penn and north Portal bridge all need to be in operation to get full use.

If both present tunnel bores can remain in service until the 2 new bores are in service then there will be 3 bores providing service until the 2 old bores are refurbished one at a time.  The only Gateway item not critical is the Secacus loop.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-official-hudson-tunnel-project-clarity-scope-34186247

The old Portal swing bridge is supposed to stay in service until the Portal south span is in operation ( not part of Gateway ). That will keep the 4 tracks active.  If for some reason Portal swing fails then the route would be down to 2 tracks until fixed.  If the Secaucus loop is in service then that will allow more trains into NYP if the swing bridge has temporary failures. 

 

[blue streak 1]

Quick view of the tunnel box.

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/10/15/tour_amtraks_future_tunnels_beneath_hudson_yards.php

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Part of Gateway project Portal bridge

Someone clued this in.  The Amtrak FY 2016 funds request called for a total of $275M for the North Portal bridge.  This is just the request dated FEB  2015. Who knows what the final appropriation will be . There are many interesting items in the request.

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/133/704/FY15-Budget-Business-Plan-FY16-Budget-Justification-FY-15-19-Five-Year-Financial-Plan.pdf