Gateway tunnels now expedited + East river tunnels + Other Gateway projects

[MidlandMike]

blue streak 1

help   --  web site ate my first  post about this.  =============  and part of the second try

 

NY group has filed a suit in federal court asking that FOI request for EIS reguarding the Gateway new tunnel bores be honored.  Group maintains that EIS may be hidden under a false name.  One possible name might be "Mushroom"  If so isn't that ironic? 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-29/code-name-mushroom-lawsuit-claims-u-s-hid-nyc-tunnel-documents 

 

Not sure if the FOIA is for the EIS, unclear in the linked article.  Could FOIA be for correspondance between agencies regarding administration's delay of funding.  In another article Batory says EIA won't be done until this year.

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_regulation/news/Batory-FRA-to-complete-Hudson-tunnel-projects-EIS-by-early-2019--55836

 

[blue streak 1]

help web site ate my post

[blue streak 1]

help   --  web site ate my first  post about this.  =============  and part of the second try

 

NY group has filed a suit in federal court asking that FOI request for EIS reguarding the Gateway new tunnel bores be honored.  Group maintains that EIS may be hidden under a false name.  One possible name might be "Mushroom"  If so isn't that ironic? 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-29/code-name-mushroom-lawsuit-claims-u-s-hid-nyc-tunnel-documents 

[BaltACD]

alphas

Its imperative that the Feds only put up a flat amount of funds and the rest is the responsibility of NJ and NY.    Otherwise it will turn out to be the same situation as with the Long Island tracks going into Grand Central or maybe as bad as Boston's Big Dig.    Especially since there is a history of organized crime being heavily involved in these northeast big projects [both the unions and some of the companies themselves].     In addition, it will take forever to build and probably not be well built if the states get a free ride.      Better to be patient now so it gets done right then hurry up and suffer major consequences in the future. 

Just let the existing tunnels fail - look at all the money the Feds and State will save.  Who need infrastructure anyway, once you build it it only becomes a maintenance nightmare that suck down more and more money.  Who needs New York in this country anyway - sell it back to the Indians!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/sarcasm]

[blue streak 1]

Just to repeat here is a thumb nail of the woes of the tunnel bores.

http://gothamist.com/2018/10/18/cuomo_strong_tunnel_weak.php#photo-8 

[alphas]

Its imperative that the Feds only put up a flat amount of funds and the rest is the responsibility of NJ and NY.    Otherwise it will turn out to be the same situation as with the Long Island tracks going into Grand Central or maybe as bad as Boston's Big Dig.    Especially since there is a history of organized crime being heavily involved in these northeast big projects [both the unions and some of the companies themselves].     In addition, it will take forever to build and probably not be well built if the states get a free ride.      Better to be patient now so it gets done right then hurry up and suffer major consequences in the future. 

[wanswheel]

This thread is 3½ years old. The ARC Tunnel threads came and went in a blink. 

[Dakguy201]

Some time ago when this subject was being discussed, I suggested pre-jailing some number of politicians, labor officials, contractors and bonding agents at the beginning of the project "pour encourager les autres".  That may not be feasible, but the history of this kind of project in the northeast is replete with massive cost overruns due in part to the conduct of the project.

I continue to believe that fed participation in this needed infrastructure should be strictly capped, and the inevitable overuns be a local responsibility. 

[CMStPnP]

SD70Dude

So the President of the United States is putting a petty personal political grudge ahead of a key infrastructure project (identified as such by his own people) that millions of his subjects citizens depend on daily.

Situation ... normal?

No I think he fully intends to fund it but Senator Schumer tipped his hat already and tried twice to sneak this in on other bills so now President Trump knows he can use it as a bargaining chip because he now knows how much Schumer wants it.     Just my suspicion, time will tell.    I would not say it is scuttled until the proposed Infrastructure bill and proposed Gas Tax increase pass or fail.   If those two proposals pass with no Gateway funding then we will know for sure.

On the slash to Amtrak funding I do think that was his full intention and he is trying to get rid of Amtrak but nobody has briefed him on the labor costs of doing so yet........plus he probably has no clue what level states are involved in Amtrak funding........so he still might back away from that once he hears the pushback.

[SD70Dude]

So the President of the United States is putting a petty personal political grudge ahead of a key infrastructure project (identified as such by his own people) that millions of his subjects citizens depend on daily.

Situation ... normal?

[NKP guy]

Even if this man said he was for or against any project, who would believe him?

At 5.9 lies per day (Washington Post statistic) a person would have to be a fool to take the present occupant of the White House at his word, let alone put money and effort on it.

As was said about Tsar Nicholas II (and how did that end?), he believed the last person he talked to.  Trust cannot be put in such a person.

If this tunnel is to be started in the next 3 years it's going to have to be done either by the 2 states or private money.  Count the Feds out, at least until the November 2018 elections, and even then....

And our national economy is in such hands.

 

 

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Trump trying to scuttle any federal participation by not allowing loans to count toward the tunnel costs.

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/376550-trump-urged-ryan-not-to-fund-ny-nj-tunnel-project-report

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Is this an indication that Gateway tunnel work can soon progress ?

NY state, NJ state, & Port Authoridy commit $5.5B for the construction of the new bores.  Now it is up to congress ?   These funds go to the Hudson yards  casing, the 2 new bores, & rehabilitation of present tunnel bores.  Not included is the new north Portal bridge which is finance separately.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governors-cuomo-and-christie-announce-commitment-fund-100-percent-states-half-new-gateway

NY Post article.  Sort of thin but NJT riders will start out by a $.90 charge to pay for it.

 

[BaltACD]

blue streak 1

Some push back is occurring over the PATH extension to EWR airport indicating that PATH may take away froom the Gateway tunnel bores.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/12/the_path_extension_is_not_a_priority_gateway_is_a.html

Priorities!  Priorities!  Priorities!

Which priority will squeak loudest and get funding?

[blue streak 1]

Some push back is occurring over the PATH extension to EWR airport indicating that PATH may take away froom the Gateway tunnel bores.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/12/the_path_extension_is_not_a_priority_gateway_is_a.html

 

[schlimm]

blue streak 1

Is it possible that this executive order will speed up  the Gateway tunnel and Portal bridge projects or is it just for future projects ?

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_regulation/news/Trump-signs-order-to-shorten-project-permitting-process--52452

 

 

Funding! Funding! Funding!

[blue streak 1]

Is it possible that this executive order will speed up  the Gateway tunnel and Portal bridge projects or is it just for future projects ?

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_regulation/news/Trump-signs-order-to-shorten-project-permitting-process--52452

 

[BaltACD]

blue streak 1

Article about present tunnels say it will take minimum of 18 months each to repair each old tunnel once the two new bores are in operation.  A disappointment is statement that the EIS for new bores will not be finished until 2018.  IMO  -- time to speed up everything.  This poster's title of this thread is misleading. 

http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/12/commuter_rail_tunnels_will_take_longer_to_rehabili.html#incart_river_index

2018 is sooner than 2028.  Permitting grinds slowly.

[blue streak 1]

Article about present tunnels say it will take minimum of 18 months each to repair each old tunnel once the two new bores are in operation.  A disappointment is statement that the EIS for new bores will not be finished until 2018.  IMO  -- time to speed up everything.  This poster's title of this thread is misleading. 

http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/12/commuter_rail_tunnels_will_take_longer_to_rehabili.html#incart_river_index

[blue streak 1]

Schumer makes a statement if Gateway not constructed.

http://observer.com/2016/12/schumer-says-trump-will-cause-a-recession-if-he-doesnt-fund-the-gateway-project/

 

[PNWRMNM]

Streak,

The link you posted has to do with heat restrictions in Australia.

Mac

[blue streak 1]

Can we believe it ? The PA may kick in $2B+ for the Gateway project.  This article seems to not denote which of the Gateway projects will be the receipent ?

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/freight-on-key-lines-to-stop-if-33c-reached?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=top-stories-this-week-on-railpage

[aegrotatio]

Yep, same with Conrail.  Lots of people still say it was a government bailout, and it was, but the bankers who financed the bailout were private corporations (with the loans guaranteed by the government).

 

They were paid back many times over with interest.  Sometimes government takeovers work.

 

But, then, we have the tragedy of abandoning many important Erie-Lackawanna, Reading, Centrail Railroad of New Jersey, and Lehigh Valley routes.

 

 

 

[Electroliner 1935]

With interest. Great investment from the Gov. Served the country well during the war.

[Deggesty]

aegrotatio

The tunnels were paid by the corporation, but the electrification projects in the 1930s were financed with low-interest loans from the US government.

 

 

Yes, and the loans were repaid.

[aegrotatio]

The tunnels were paid by the corporation, but the electrification projects in the 1930s were financed with low-interest loans from the US government.

 

[Gramp]

I really wonder how many Americans today realize the extent that government has usurped the "free market" economy over the last 100 years.

[Gramp]

Has anyone seen the documentary about the construction of the original tunnels plus Penn Station on public TV (The American Experience)?  I just saw it about a week ago on our TV station.  What a magnificent undertaking!  And all designed and paid for by THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD, a private sector corporation.

http://wptschedule.org/episodes/44907416/The-Rise-and-Fall-of-Penn-Station-American-Experience/

 

 

[wanswheel]

Crain’s article ('far from done deal') says NJ and NYS probably can’t put money up soon.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%22Gateway+tunnel+project+is+still+far+from+a+done+deal%22