Minneapolis Passenger Depots

[Dreyfusshudson]

Many thanks for these four replies. With respect to Jclass's point, I was rather assuming that the only sensible route north and west was the NP. Two reasons for this, firstly this gets you to Duluth, a likely end point(via what seems to be the ex GN line?). Secondly, my understanding is that the ex GN to Fargo is not what it was, and would require a very considerable and expensive upgrade to bring it back to passenger standards, though nothing like the cost of recreating the old GN station! So yes, this is a possible but not ideal option. And from Google Earth, the Target Field site looks pretty cramped to me, not suitable for significant expansion. With respect to Minneapolis and the points about Philadelphia and San Francisco, what was behind my question is a hunch that on a medium to long term timescale -20,30 40 years- who knows? I think it quite possible that intercity passenger service will once again be desirable in some US regions. To me, passenger railways make most sense when you have cities with high population densities and large business districts in down town areas. Currently, such US cities often already have commuter rail, in the NE Corridor there is frequent intercity rail too. There is a view that other US cities will go in this direction, reversing in part the historic trend to move people and businesses out to the suburbs, particularly as the population increases. (Richmond Va now has its downtown station back). If so, railways become a good way to access congested downtown areas. If historic rights of way into downtown areas have been lost, this means recreation of passenger rail access become hugely expensive. In other words, with 80-100 years hindsight, decisions which seemed perfectly rational in the 1960s, up to and including the present day might seem questionable. Once a right of way is lost, it cannot be revived. So has Minneapolis potentially shot itself in the foot? and are there similar examples? was really my question. And will Chicago miss Grand Central and Dearborn? and so on. Philadelphia has never lost intercity passenger service. 30th Street is some distance from the heart of the city, but there are good local rail connections. London, Paris, Berlin and Vienna do not have intercity rail to the heart of the cities either ! (though are building or have built heavy rail connections through downtown)- so not being right in the middle of downtown does not matter in very large cities if there are good rapid transit connections, though in the smaller cities I know, the main stations are generally downtown, and vital to their economic well being. With respect to San Francisco, there has always been the SP going south, but never any rail connection east and north. I did read somewhere that BART is thinking of, in addition to a second BART tunnel, a heavy rail connection to across to Oakland, an aspiration, not a plan. Folk were quick to dismiss this as wishful thinking, which in the short term it surely is, but in the longer term, this is what experience elsewhere in the world suggests might happen, with both semi fast services connecting e.g. Berkeley to stations on the San Jose line, and direct access for e.g. intercity trains from Sacramento to San Francisco. This supposes a very different world to today. So, because of geography and history a new build would be necessary to make a downtown to downtown model work in this instance. I will not live to see this happen!- but I think it might on current trends and projections. My crystal ball does not see the Twin Cities as a prime candidate for the recreation of intercity passenger rail- but who knows? About 10 years ago I found a very interesting and poignant article by Al Kalmbach, in TRAINS ca1951- a wonderful read- describing passenger rail of various kinds in Milwaukee- a very comprehensive system that disappeared within a two decades. Sounded great to me, but was lost to irresistible forces, never to return I thought. I am now beginning to wonder if it might gradually reemerge in modified form.

[Deggesty]

Emeryville is just across the Bay from San Francisco, and is about five miles north of the Jack London Square Station in Oakland.

When Amtrak was carrying LCL materials on the California Zephyr, the train was too long to be handled in Oakland (street crossings would be blocked), so Emeryville became the western terminal for the train.

There is little difference in the bus time to/from Oakland and to/from Emeryville.

[MidlandMike]

PRR moved thru trains out of Broad St Station in downtown Phily in favor of 30th St Station years ago.  Oakland is about 10 miles from San Francisco, and I have no idea where Emeryville is.

[MidlandMike]

The Detroit (ex-MC/NYC) Amtrak station was abandoned for a new one about 3 miles north of downtown when the route was extended to suburban Pontiac.  They are finally going to build a light rail line which will connect the new station to downtown.

For Minneapolis, it seems they should have built a new station before closing Midway.

[jclass]

What about Target Field Station if the GN line west to Willmar is used, and the wye at E. Hennepin going east?

[Dreyfusshudson]

The reopening of SPUD caused me to wonder if and how Minneapolis could have a through passenger railroad station again, connecting to both Chicago and points north and west. Looking at the Google earth, it seems the  route via the Great Northern depot is gone forever, as is the Milwaukee route west and north. So it looks like Minneapolis could never have a downtown depot again except at phenomenal expense. Best you could do is about 1.5 miles north on Hennepin or Broadway.

Is this true?

If so, are there any other large US cities where this also applies?

I'm not suggesting this should be on anyone's priority list.