My recent NEC trip:
I just spend the weekend in Phila and found the cheapest way there was to fly to BWI from Atlanta and then take Amtrak to 30th St. This included and overnight stay at BWI, which just goes to show how expensive flying in and out of Phila is these days....
I also had to piece the trip together myself. Too bad the Amtrak and airline schedules aren't integrated.
Here are some random observations:
1. It is really pretty easy to get between the airport and the train station. Shuttle runs frequently, is well marked and the trip is short.
2. BWI rail station is a tiny and is a dump - considering the number of people using it on a Friday morning - it could use some upgrading. How about a joint MARC/Amtrak/BWI project?
3. The BWI station staff were very good. I saw an agent go out of his way to give a 3 yr old girl a paper Amtrak hat and coloring book. Just fabulous to watch happen!
4. I spend an hour and a half down at the end of the platform taking pix before my train came. Not a single hassle.
5. The center track has 1983 140 RE rail (rolled in June of 1983, so it's exactly 30 years old) - the old PC standard that Amtrak adopted. It must have been put down with the early 80s NECIP that put the bulk of the concrete ties in place. The other two tracks had newer 136# rail (which is NS's std). For comparison, NJT and CR use 132 RE rail.
6. The ride quality has gotten much worse in since the 80s and 90s when I last rode this part of the corridor. The interlockings, which were always rough, were even worse and there were some other bad spots as well. A lot of the route was pretty good, though, just not "rock steady" like it was 20 years ago.
7. The Amfleet coaches are just as good as they always were. The "peel and stick" interiors were nice and clean, the seats comfortable, and the ride nice and quiet.
8. The Crescent came through while I was waiting at BWI. It had the ex-NYC Hickory Creek obs car on the rear end. Had put my camera away by then... It was cool to see it though.
9. The free WiFi worked pretty well.
10. The e-ticketing feature of the Amtrak phone app worked great! No paper - they scan your phone screen (just like Starbucks) . On my return train on Sunday evening, I'd say about 1/3 of the riders were paperless. Another cool thing Amtrak did was to offer an "upsell" when you go to display your ticket - really easy to spend a bit more to upgrade to business class (I didn't - but I thought about it). Also, the conductor's hand-held looked like a modified iPhone - nice and small and easy to use. Off the shelf technology. Smart.
11. 30th St Station is still the best train station in the US. It's big. It's full of people using intercity trains. It has massive art-deco coolness. It just is. I like just being in the building.
12. Amtrak has some kiosks up in 30th St selling the story of their proposed NEC upgrade. That's good PR.
13. Acelas and HHP8 locomotives are neat looking. The Acelas have a goofy paint job, but the train sets look nice. The HHP8s look good in Amtrak paint - less so in MARC paint. MARC's new diesels look pretty good.
14. The onboard employees on both trains I'd give an A or B. They've come a long way from the days of the Penn Central charm school. Amtrak did this. Good for them.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
So with the overnight at BWI, wouldn't a straight Amtrak Atlanta to 30th Street have worked in your favor?
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henry6 So with the overnight at BWI, wouldn't a straight Amtrak Atlanta to 30th Street have worked in your favor?
WAAAY too expensive...
RT on Amtrak roomette would have cost over $1100. Flight to PHL - $550. Amtrak/BWI - $400 including hotel.
and I got to spend a bit more time at destination (not much - only about 6 hours more.)
---and to be fair, you'd have to back out the "free" Amtrak meal and add in the ATL parking, but that doesn't really move the needle much.
You're talking less than $200 or 15% difference less actually. From a marketing standpoint that is competitive not "WAAAY too expensive."
henry6 You're talking less than $200 or 15% difference less actually. From a marketing standpoint that is competitive not "WAAAY too expensive."
No. $700 difference. $1100 for the Crescent. $400 for NEC/BWI. That's WAAAY too large a difference.
The Airtran/Southwest flights were $110 each. Amtrak was $42 and $32. Hotel was $100.
Flew up on Friday AM. Arrived Philadelphia just after the Crescent. Left Philadelphia at 9:30 PM Sunday, about 5 hours after the Crescent. Arrived in ATL about same time as Crescent.
Your description of your recent NEC trip is most interesting and informative.
On more than one occasion, when going to DC or Philadelphia, I have stayed at the LaQuinta near BWI. It has a shuttle to the airport as well as the rail station.
Clearly, the BWI station is not 30th Street or Washington Union Station. But it works.
oltmannd henry6 You're talking less than $200 or 15% difference less actually. From a marketing standpoint that is competitive not "WAAAY too expensive." No. $700 difference. $1100 for the Crescent. $400 for NEC/BWI. That's WAAAY too large a difference. The Airtran/Southwest flights were $110 each. Amtrak was $42 and $32. Hotel was $100. Flew up on Friday AM. Arrived Philadelphia just after the Crescent. Left Philadelphia at 9:30 PM Sunday, about 5 hours after the Crescent. Arrived in ATL about same time as Crescent.
If the extra six hours on the ground was for business purposes, you need to factor its cost into the calculation.. If it was for personal purposes, it still has value, although it is implied and may be different than the time for business.
In addition, at least in my case, I have never gotten off an overnight train feeling completely rested. For years I would not admit it to my non-rail friends, but I suspect very few people get as good a nights rest on a train as they do in a good hotel bed.
Thanks for the travelogue, Don. This is the kind of information I find most helpful.
John
Sam1 Clearly, the BWI station is not 30th Street or Washington Union Station. But it works.
It needs a bigger waiting room and restrooms - and the walkway over the tracks is a bit scummy. But, you are right. It works.
Does MARC have frequent service to DC from BWI?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm Does MARC have frequent service to DC from BWI?
There are approximately 24 weekday trains a day from BWI to Washington's Union Station. The one way fare is $6.00. It is $3.00 for seniors.
I have found that hotel prices in the Baltimore area can be as much as 50 per cent less than in D.C. for the same class of accommodation. Baltimore, by the way, is worth a visit. The harbor area is neat. And the B&O Railway Museum is worth a visit.
I always felt very good and very rested after a night in sleeping accommodations on a decent train. There were exceptions, like a derailment causing a bus bridge in the middle of the night, or a sleeper on a local train that the railroad truly wanted to discontiniiue and thus left couopled to the switcher while sorting cars at a junction in the middle of the night, but those were exceptions. And the huge joy of waking up in the morning after a good night's rest with thoughts of good French Toast in the diner and a whole day sightseeing on a transcontinental, well that was really living. When Amtrak did provide a shower, on a few trips toward the end of my USA and Canadian travels, I still opted to simply scrub myself with a wet towel and stay in the roomette or bedroom, however. On one business trip I spent five successive nights in sleepers: NYNH&H Owl, Boston-NY, PRR-Southern. NY-Greensboro, Southern-WPRoute-L&N, Greensboro-New Orleans (streetcar riding included), KCS, NO-Shreveport (and rode the trackless trolley there as well as attended to business), and KCS-MP Shrreveport-St. Louis. I would have liked to take the NYC back to Boston, but had to fly back to make a meeting. That particular year I think I spent about 10% of my nights in sleeping cars and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Just put up some pictures on my blog. Also a few from NJT Atlantic City Line.
Sam1 schlimm Does MARC have frequent service to DC from BWI? There are approximately 24 weekday trains a day from BWI to Washington's Union Station. The one way fare is $6.00. It is $3.00 for seniors. I have found that hotel prices in the Baltimore area can be as much as 50 per cent less than in D.C. for the same class of accommodation. Baltimore, by the way, is worth a visit. The harbor area is neat. And the B&O Railway Museum is worth a visit.
Sam1In addition, at least in my case, I have never gotten off an overnight train feeling completely rested.
Me, too. Mostly because I thought I would be missing something! Never had any trouble getting to sleep, but staying there after 4 hours or so was tough. I tend to wake up when the train stops...
oltmannd Sam1In addition, at least in my case, I have never gotten off an overnight train feeling completely rested. Me, too. Mostly because I thought I would be missing something! Never had any trouble getting to sleep, but staying there after 4 hours or so was tough. I tend to wake up when the train stops...
BWI is an alright station. I used it about a month ago when going to 30th street on a Regional as well. Generally for me the limit is a bit over 750-900 miles for a train trip be it overnight or daytime so Southwest does indeed work from there.
The regional I was on was literally completely sold out, middle of the week, about 2 PM. One guy walked around looking for the last seat. They could easily be running 14 car regional trains and filling them it seems.
V.Payne BWI is an alright station. I used it about a month ago when going to 30th street on a Regional as well. Generally for me the limit is a bit over 750-900 miles for a train trip be it overnight or daytime so Southwest does indeed work from there. The regional I was on was literally completely sold out, middle of the week, about 2 PM. One guy walked around looking for the last seat. They could easily be running 14 car regional trains and filling them it seems.
Must have been a bit unusual. The average load factor on the NEC regional trains in 2012 was 48.3 per cent. To be sure, the load factor can vary significantly from day to day and segment to segment, but I am hard pressed to believe that the capacity constraints on the NEC are as great as some claim. The average load factor on the Acela during 2012 was 62.5 per cent. It would be nice to see the load factors for each day and each segment of the NEC for a year.
In 2008 I asked Dallas Area Rapid Transit for the load factor for each of its bus and rail routes. I never believed that they would give it to me. They did. I got each route as well as every bus and train for the first half of 2007. The even sent me the data on Excel spreadsheets. Now I am testing my luck again. I have filed a Freedom of Information Request with Amtrak for similar information on the NEC. It will be interesting to see what I get.
Good luck and thanks for trying! It would be very interesting.
I think load factor is at best a rough estimate for availability of space on a train. The reason is that not all riders get in at the first station and ride all the miles up to the last station. People get on an off during the trip. Load factor is the relationship of passenger miles to seat miles. If you have people riding for relatively short distances (such as BWI to Philadelphia) the seats can be filled on that part of the journey may there may be empty seats before BWI and after Philadelphia.
Unlike the private railroads that preceded it, Amtrak does not sell more tickets that it has seats, not even for short distances. That will tend to decrease the load factor.
John WR I think load factor is at best a rough estimate for availability of space on a train. The reason is that not all riders get in at the first station and ride all the miles up to the last station. People get on an off during the trip. Load factor is the relationship of passenger miles to seat miles. If you have people riding for relatively short distances (such as BWI to Philadelphia) the seats can be filled on that part of the journey may there may be empty seats before BWI and after Philadelphia. Unlike the private railroads that preceded it, Amtrak does not sell more tickets that it has seats, not even for short distances. That will tend to decrease the load factor.
The average load factor takes into consideration all the segments. It could be very high on one segment, i.e. BWI to Phildelphia, but at roughly 48 per cent most segments served by the NEC regional trains are operating way under capacity.
Several years ago a person who used to participate in these forums made a reasonably good argument that 65 per cent is near the capacity for a railroad train, although he did not have any supporting data to back-up his argument.
Amtrak uses a yield management system like those used by the airlines. These systems contain some robust predictive algorithms. I would be surprised if Amtrak's does not contain a "no show" factor. And I would be further surprised if Amtrak, like the airlines, does not sell more tickets than it has seats, especially during peak periods, to optimize revenue.
Sam,
If you want to talk about averages you are talking to the wrong guy. I don't like averages because I think they distort important things that happen at the ends of the continuum. I like frequency distributions. But if we used frequency distributions with something like Amtrak we would almost immediately be deluged with a mass of data that is too great to handle.
Now if you think that I have a bug in the lower portion of my anatomy about averages, you are right. Everybody uses them. I don't suggest you should not use them. I just don't like them.
Sam1 [Several years ago a person who used to participate in these forums made a reasonably good argument that 65 per cent is near the capacity for a railroad train, although he did not have any supporting data to back-up his argument. . And I would be further surprised if Amtrak, like the airlines, does not sell more tickets than it has seats, especially during peak periods, to optimize revenue.
[Several years ago a person who used to participate in these forums made a reasonably good argument that 65 per cent is near the capacity for a railroad train, although he did not have any supporting data to back-up his argument.
. And I would be further surprised if Amtrak, like the airlines, does not sell more tickets than it has seats, especially during peak periods, to optimize revenue.
John WR Sam1I think load factor is at best a rough estimate for availability of space on a train. Sam, If you want to talk about averages you are talking to the wrong guy. I don't like averages because I think they distort important things that happen at the ends of the continuum. I like frequency distributions. But if we used frequency distributions with something like Amtrak we would almost immediately be deluged with a mass of data that is too great to handle. Now if you think that I have a bug in the lower portion of my anatomy about averages, you are right. Everybody uses them. I don't suggest you should not use them. I just don't like them. John
Sam1I think load factor is at best a rough estimate for availability of space on a train.
It appears that you have quoted yourself and attributed it to me.
A frequency distribution could tell you the distirubiton of the load factor by quartiles or quintiles for a population. But one would still need to know the load factor for each segment to determine if the capacity utilization is for the route, one segment, or multiple segments.
Amtrak only gives us averages by route. Having said that, it is difficult to imagine that an average load factor of 48 per cent translates into 100 per cent very often for the route or any one segment.
Depends on what you're traveling for, of course, and on your circumstances. I will say that, at the end of my life, I won't count as a win $700 saved on a opportunity lost to ride a sleeping car Atlanta-Philadelphia.
dakotafred oltmannd henry6 You're talking less than $200 or 15% difference less actually. From a marketing standpoint that is competitive not "WAAAY too expensive." No. $700 difference. $1100 for the Crescent. $400 for NEC/BWI. That's WAAAY too large a difference. The Airtran/Southwest flights were $110 each. Amtrak was $42 and $32. Hotel was $100. Flew up on Friday AM. Arrived Philadelphia just after the Crescent. Left Philadelphia at 9:30 PM Sunday, about 5 hours after the Crescent. Arrived in ATL about same time as Crescent. Depends on what you're traveling for, of course, and on your circumstances. I will say that, at the end of my life, I won't count as a win $700 saved on a opportunity lost to ride a sleeping car Atlanta-Philadelphia.
And, that's why the sleepers aren't empty.
and I agree.
I'm sorry about the incorrectly attributed quotation, Sam. I deleted it.
Actually, you don't have to pay $700 extra if you take the train between Atlanta and Philadelphia. You do have to plan ahead, though.
For a July 29 departure returning on August 2 in a roomette the round trip fare is only $541.
Of course people who decline to sleep in the train would not ride Amtrak at any price.
John WR Actually, you don't have to pay $700 extra if you take the train between Atlanta and Philadelphia. You do have to plan ahead, though. For a July 29 departure returning on August 2 in a roomette the round trip fare is only $541. Of course people who decline to sleep in the train would not ride Amtrak at any price.
I probably would have bit on $541...(the extra $~100 I'd chalk up to "railfan entertainment") but I needed it to be Thurs - Sun or Fri - Mon. I had only one vacation day to burn on the trip - and I only had a few weeks lead time to plan.
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