John WR MerrilyWeRollAlongSo what is the logic in taking the train for a minimum of $24 if you can get to Philly (or Baltimore or Boston or Washington) for $1.00 on the bus? I checked Megabus New York to Philadelphia. It is cheaper than NJT plus SEPTA but I found no $1 fares. for Sunday, March 17 fares are $15 to $20 For April 17 fares run from $5 to $15 One problem I can see is that Megabus tends to serve big cities. Can you get Megabus from Elizabeth to Philadelphia? or New Brunswick to Phildadelphia? Or Trenton to Philadelphia? From Elizabeth and Trenton on Megabus you just can's get there from here. From New Brunswick it is possible; you take Megabus to New York and then change to Philadelphia.
MerrilyWeRollAlongSo what is the logic in taking the train for a minimum of $24 if you can get to Philly (or Baltimore or Boston or Washington) for $1.00 on the bus?
I checked Megabus New York to Philadelphia. It is cheaper than NJT plus SEPTA but I found no $1 fares.
for Sunday, March 17 fares are $15 to $20
For April 17 fares run from $5 to $15
One problem I can see is that Megabus tends to serve big cities. Can you get Megabus from Elizabeth to Philadelphia? or New Brunswick to Phildadelphia? Or Trenton to Philadelphia? From Elizabeth and Trenton on Megabus you just can's get there from here. From New Brunswick it is possible; you take Megabus to New York and then change to Philadelphia.
The $1 low rate is available to the first person who buys a ticket for a given bus trip. when the bus company releases a block of tickets for sale is when the $1 ticket is available. As for intermediate stops, I do know one of the bus companies between ny and Philly does make one intermediate stop in Cherry Hill since there are a significant number of young adults who live in NYC and are from South Jersey.
MerrilyWeRollAlong As for intermediate stops, I do know one of the bus companies between ny and Philly does make one intermediate stop in Cherry Hill since there are a significant number of young adults who live in NYC and are from South Jersey.
I checked both the Mega Bus and Bolt website. Neither list Cherry Hill as a stopping point. However, you could go to Philadelphia and then get local transit to Cherry Hill.
Discount buses attract frugal travelers. That is fair enough. Frugal travelers who come to urban centers need to consider local buses, subways and trains and be willing to wait for them and use them. That is reasonable during rush hours and times when the urban centers are safe. However, discount buses do not bring you to a bus terminal where there are police and the area is safe. They just drop you off by the side of the road and go on. If you are lucky there is a more traditional bus or rail station close by where you can retreat and figure out your next step. If you are no so lucky your $1 fare can get you mugged.
Yes....you've got to consider the "level" of the traveler. Frugal, no frills, will put up with anything and everything. Not everybody will do it no matter how much they will save. Next up is the bus in general...did you know more people get sick riding buses than airplanes and even ships?....followed by the commuter coaches, intercity coach, parlor or extra fare cars, limousine, plane coach, plane first class, private jet. Driving private car not included because we are talking about purchasing publicly available purchased transportation. Some people do want certain luxuries or niceties when the travel and are willing to pay for it. Know your market, then sell your market. Don't put down the market below you or above you...it is there and it will generate its own income. Or not.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Henry,
It's no secret that price competition is effective. Many people shop by price and by price alone. Certainly discount buses use this attribute of human nature.
But to do everything the cheapest way possible you have to cut some corners somewhere. You can cherry pick your route and ignore the needs of people who live in more out of the way places. You can avoid the cost of a handicapped accessible restroom and leave handicapped people to negotiate with the driver for a rest stop. And you can do your pick ups and drop offs along the road both when there is a lot of street live and also in the dead of night and not concern yourself with anyone's safety. All of these practices same money by passing problems and risks along to others including your passengers.
Certainly in the all over scheme of things bus travel has to be part of intercity travel. But perhaps we as a society make a mistake when we allow private bus companies to pass along these risks to innocent and unwary people.
Your market the service. Design it for a price group and sell it like that. Or design it for luxury group and sell it that way. Doesn't matter, as long as you plan, design, execute, and be consistent and honest, you're in business. Bus, train, plane, car, roller skates, walking. Design and execute.
John WR However, discount buses do not bring you to a bus terminal where there are police and the area is safe. They just drop you off by the side of the road and go on. If you are lucky there is a more traditional bus or rail station close by where you can retreat and figure out your next step. If you are no so lucky your $1 fare can get you mugged.
However, discount buses do not bring you to a bus terminal where there are police and the area is safe. They just drop you off by the side of the road and go on. If you are lucky there is a more traditional bus or rail station close by where you can retreat and figure out your next step. If you are no so lucky your $1 fare can get you mugged.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Speaking for someone who lives in NYC, I know there has been a push to get all of the curbside carriers (BoltBus, MegaBus, Chinatown buses) into the Port Authority Bus Terminal or at least into a more centralized area that is away from congested area of Manhattan. I have a tendency to agree with the movement as the curbside pickup blocks already congested sidewalks. I think the NYC at one point forced MegaBus to have their pickup/drop offs on 41st Street underneath the Port Authority Bus Terminal for no cost which outraged of the tenants who paid to use the terminal.
If I'm not mistaken, Boston has created a law that forces all bus carriers to use the South Station Bus Terminal by making curbside pickup illegal.
Schlimm,
Unless these stations now have stalls for buses to drive into the buses stop by the side of the road. In some cases the stops may be close to rail stations. That it certainly good as the rail station provides a place to go to for information or just to retreat to in safety.
John
Stopping right in front of many of those locations is the same as a cab or dropped off by private auto. Why go around making it sound so scary? What's your objective?
I looked up websites for this info.
In Boston Megabus leaves from "South Station."
Bolt leaves from "South Station gate 9."
So in Boston anyway there is a real bus terminal and both carriers use it.
What I understand (from reading several articles) is that curbside pickups are important for discount buses because if they pick people up at curbside they do not have to obey the Americans with Disabilities Act and provide handicapped accessible restrooms. Having no handicapped accessible restrooms is important to discount bus lines. I don't know how Boston fits into this.
I don't see that being dropped off 3 blocks from New Your Penn Station is the same as being dropped off at the entrance as a taxi cab would. If you don't think that would be scary late at night, well I have to take my hat off to you.
What's so dangerous about the DC, Philly and Chicago locations? Or 7th avenue? That part of Midtown is just fine, certainly at the time you were mentioning. better than the Port Authority terminal.
In the mid 50's cities worked hard to build central bus depots and charge bus companies to use them. The idea was to get buses off the traffic clogged streets and to give people a safe and efficient waiting area. Curb side buses don't pay for the spots and return the traffic to the clogged streets. So, the problem is that there are bus companies paying to be in the likes of Port Authority to unclog the streets and give passengers a waiting room, food and other shopping services, restrooms, etc. Now these no frills upstarts are thumbing their noses at the system by not playing or paying. Really the burden is put on the cities to accept the traffic as is or push them off the streets into safe havens of terminals.
Actually, Schlimm, I ride local buses. A lot of them. This does involve waiting at a lot of bus stops on the side of the road. I've always done it although I have had some bad experiences and I've heard about more. I believe in public transit and I try to spread my belief. The most common response I encounter is that people are just afraid of it. Afraid to wait for a bus. Are they all wrong? Perhaps so and perhaps not. But you are really talking to the wrong guy here. You need to be talking to the vast numbers of people who are fearful. However, I don't know how you can reach them.
I don't think the discount buses are new. Rather, they are variations on a theme that began with automobiles. A guy with a car would drive along a street car route just before the car came, fill up his car and take people to where ever they wanted to go. No more waiting and often he charged less than the street car fare. These were the jitneys. I suspect you know about them; they still operate. Extend the distance to intercity trips and you have discount buses.
Today jitneys are guys with vans. One problem is that often they are not insured as a common carrier and you don't find out until it is too late. Here we have been talking about Bolt and Megabus, large companies that are responsible and, I assume, have proper insurance. But there are others, names we never heard of that may not have insurance.
This kind of service exists all over the world. It's here, it's cheap and people ride it.
Chartered, insured, responsible,
assured safe, liable, trustworthy, paying share of costs of right of ways and terminal points. They shrug responsibility and avoid paying for what governments provide. Those are some of the problems of accepting gypsy or discount buses. They are new, actually. Up to now they have not been so blatant nor numerous; very few existed for long in the past to say they existed. There are some "commuters" in some places like Wilkes Barre area of PA who have either pool purchased a van and hired a driver or have chartered a van and driver for the daily round trip but they limit themselves to themselves and don't solicit other riders. But the fact remains, we have asked our governments to oversee our safety and the legitimacy of those providing services to us in the form of granting charters and holding the recipients or holders of those charters to standards, laws, and practices. The taxpayer pays the costs above those costs accrued by these charters and all costs for those who don't have such charters. Railroads were originally owners of private rights of way who had to adhere to their charter rights at their own costs. Today those rights of way are government owned and operated for the most part.
Lots of talk about service and marketing, but some of these discount bus companies are a fine example of effective niche marketing of a service. I only know of the experiences of a friend who rides Megabus fairly often. The service is fairly fast, often covering cities (Columbus, the largest metro area in Ohio) that Amtrak has ignored. The buses are comfortable and modern and are a more pleasant experience than Greyhound. The curbside drop-off/boarding points that some posters deride are often just outside major train stations, where there are also cabs, city buses and autos. The NYC Airporter shuttles to LaGuardia, etc. leave from the curb at Park & 42nd, but nobody is outraged or in fear of life and limb. The fares vary, but are usually low-cost. Apparently they have found a pretty sizable patronage. So why knock them? If Amtrak were half as creative and up-to-date in its thinking, passenger service in America would be much more successful.
Not denying their due, good niche marketing....but are they legal? do they pay for labor and services the same as legitimate bus companies. (I see Megabus uses Coach USA in and out of NYCity but are all as legal?)? Do we know who they are and what is being purchased when riding? Just because the pick up/drop off points are where they are do not make them legal nor responsible. It is a matter of reinventing the wheel when it comes to interstate commerce, use of highways, use of city streets, and doing without charters or authority in many cases.
Well, since you think today's reporting is so lame, why don't you conduct some investigative reporting on the Megabuses of this world? Not legitimate? strong language. Can you prove that?
schlimm The service is fairly fast, often covering cities (Columbus, the largest metro area in Ohio) that Amtrak has ignored. ..... If Amtrak were half as creative and up-to-date in its thinking, passenger service in America would be much more successful.
The service is fairly fast, often covering cities (Columbus, the largest metro area in Ohio) that Amtrak has ignored. ..... If Amtrak were half as creative and up-to-date in its thinking, passenger service in America would be much more successful.
I think it's hard to call Amtrak "uncreative" if it can't afford to do the things that it wants to do and a certain political party has a disdain for taxpayer supported passenger service. Two very recent examples Amtrak expansions getting "killed" include Wisconsin and Ohio. Hiawatha Service was going to be extended to Madison WI with new trains being built until that got ax. You referenced Ohio which had plans for Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati service until that state's governor pulled the plug on that. Other non-Amtrak related projects in the previously mentioned NY-Scraton service which started picking up momentum until it ran out of money (and since the two governers of NJ and PA are of the same party, i don't expect anything to happen to this project until there is some regime changes). And I don't mean to trash the unnamed party as a whole since there are some there are some leaders of that party who do see a future in passenger rail (Virginia and North Carolina come quickly to mind).
Passenger trains are expense to get up and running because of the initial cost of capital required upfront to built/rebuild the infrastructure and then subsequently the needed operating subsidies to cover future maintenance and improvements. Discount bus carriers don't have to worry about such issues since government builds and maintains the roads and highways for them.
henry6 Not denying their due, good niche marketing....but are they legal? do they pay for labor and services the same as legitimate bus companies. (I see Megabus uses Coach USA in and out of NYCity but are all as legal?)? Do we know who they are and what is being purchased when riding? Just because the pick up/drop off points are where they are do not make them legal nor responsible. It is a matter of reinventing the wheel when it comes to interstate commerce, use of highways, use of city streets, and doing without charters or authority in many cases.
BoltBus is a wholely owned subsidiary of a joint venture between Greyhound and Peter Pan Bus Lines while MegaBus is a sub-brand of Coach USA. Both are legitimate carriers with corporate parents who are in the business. This arrangement allows the parents to offer "no-frills" service with marginal returns as a result of their ability provide the subsidiaries access to the parent's infrastructure without the undue direct costs. For instance, BoltBus does not need to have it's own maintenance facilities because it's buses can just pull into any Greyhound depot for servicing. Also, savings can be obtained when purchasing new equipment with the parent placing a large order for itself and it's subsidiary ("you save money in the long run when you buy in bulk!"). Likewise, certain back office functions can be combined thus continuing to lower operating costs. I wouldn't be surprised if drivers were interchangeable as well.
The real danger is the so-called "Chinatown buses" who are currently underregulated, their equipment is poorly maintained and their drivers are questionably trained and drive eratically. These are bus companies (if you want to call them that) that pick up/drop off passengers in the "less than desirable" locations. In response to whether the riders know the dangers of riding these bus lines, the answer is surprisingly yes and these passengers do so willingly and with open arms. With the coming of Mega and Bolt buses, the Chinatown buses have moreorless reverted back to their original purpose of transporting Chinese immigrants between Chinese neighborhoods in different cities (or to the local casino). These riders do it for cultural reasons... newly arrived, first generation immigrants sticking together... plus since many of them have very low paying jobs, the price is right for them.
Thanks for the clear distinction between Bolt/MegaBus and the "Chinatown" operators. And CoachUSA is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Stagecoach Group, a major operator in the UK since 2003. In addition to motor coaches, they own 49% of VirginRail, also in the UK., which makes Stagecoach the #2 transport group there. Hardly the fly by night operation as portrayed earlier.
No, I know Megabus and Bolt are legitimate and wide spread...knew Megabus was working through Coach USA agents and lines and that Bolt has been quite a hit between Boston and NY and NY and Philadelphia. The nuevo riche in this country is not rich and will save as much as possible on expenses...it is a great marketing concept! But, the so called Chinatown operators are the problem...and there are a lot of similar operations in rural and other non rural areas, too, who are problematical. These operators are why the Federal government has cracked down on the bus industry following so many accidents...
Here are my exact words: "Discount buses attract frugal travelers. That is fair enough. Frugal travelers who come to urban centers need to consider local buses, subways and trains and be willing to wait for them and use them. That is reasonable during rush hours and times when the urban centers are safe. However, discount buses do not bring you to a bus terminal where there are police and the area is safe. They just drop you off by the side of the road and go on. If you are lucky there is a more traditional bus or rail station close by where you can retreat and figure out your next step. If you are no so lucky your $1 fare can get you mugged."
I gather the last sentence is the one you are unhappy with. But I specifically stated that often discount buses do leave you off in a safe place. I am sure you regret as much as I do the fact that parts of our cities are not safe but that is the unfortunate reality. And sometimes discount buses simply do not leave you off in a safe place.
henry6These operators are why the Federal government has cracked down on the bus industry following so many accidents...
Am I missing something here, Henry? I haven't seen anything about the Federal Government cracking down on the bus industry. I know there have been some horrendous accidents. On the New England Throughway at the border of Bronx and Westchester Counties a World Wide Tours bus had its top sheared off, for example.
Yes.,,,three crashes last year, about a dozen in the past several years, including one today in PA near Harrisburg. Feds closed down several bus companies a month or so ago based on these problems. Poor maintenance, over tired drivers, drivers with poor driving records, the list goes on.
Today's crash near Harrisburg was a chartered bus carrying the Seton Hill womans' lacrosse team. Among the dead is the coach, Kristina Quigly who was 6 months pregnant. Her unborn child did not survive either.
John WR" However, discount buses do not bring you to a bus terminal where there are police and the area is safe. They just drop you off by the side of the road and go on. If you are lucky there is a more traditional bus or rail station close by where you can retreat and figure out your next step. If you are no so lucky your $1 fare can get you mugged."
It's not about whether or not I am unhappy. it's about your last three sentences which are inaccurate and seem designed to provoke fear.
1."They just drop you off by the side of the road" sounds like the bus stops along a highway (last I looked, 7th Avenue is a city street) and dumps you unceremoniously. and drives off, leaving you in a cloud.
2. "If you are lucky there is a more traditional bus or rail station close by where you can retreat and figure out your next step." Sure, in most cases you are outside the rail station, the same as someone who rode the train there.
3. Your last sentence is simply fear-mongering of the worst sort.
You see things that are neither said nor intended. I live on a street that is about 6 blocks long but on the signs it is called a "road." American English does not distinguish between streets and roads. And I completely reject your suggestion that in your last sentence. Your accusation is false.
Not Seton Hall, SETON HILL...a Catholic woman's college in PA.
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