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Amtrak Means Never Again Changing Stations in Manhattan

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Posted by John WR on Friday, January 4, 2013 7:22 PM

henry6
Again, it is a matter of knowing how to not just read timetables, but how to use them for your advantage..

I agree, Henry.  But even if you choose the best way to go you will sometimes have to wait.  If I have to wait at Newark I can get something good to eat at Zaro's.  I don't know if that is even possible at Secaucus.

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Posted by John WR on Friday, January 4, 2013 7:28 PM

PS.  I think Amtrak should honor NJT tickets within the state of New Jersey.  While NJT fares are much lower than Amtrak's they also have empty seats on their cars so they would add revenue on existing trains.  And it would be a good way of acquainting people with Amtrak.  

Not all Amtrak trains, though.  Not Acela or long distance trains.  But relatively short distance trains, especially those that stop between Newark and Trenton.  

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Posted by northeaster on Friday, January 4, 2013 9:02 PM

From many years of riding to NY on the New Haven, going to both Penn Station and Grand Central, there are no bridges to cross which open for ships. The Hell's Gate Bridge out of Penn Station via the East River tunnels is a very high span with no lift or swing needed it is that high. The Harlem Division out of Grand Cental is the main route for Metro North trains & joins the Hell's Gate line in New Rochelle. The Penn Station line up the east side of the Hudson River does have a frequently troublesome swing bridge which I believe is slated to be replaced soon. The Grand Central route west, I believe, swings off the Harlem Division and joins the present Penn Station Hudson River line just above that bridge....but my memory is a bit foggy on that one.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, January 4, 2013 10:03 PM

northeaster

From many years of riding to NY on the New Haven, going to both Penn Station and Grand Central, there are no bridges to cross which open for ships. The Hell's Gate Bridge out of Penn Station via the East River tunnels is a very high span with no lift or swing needed it is that high. The Harlem Division out of Grand Cental is the main route for Metro North trains & joins the Hell's Gate line in New Rochelle. The Penn Station line up the east side of the Hudson River does have a frequently troublesome swing bridge which I believe is slated to be replaced soon. The Grand Central route west, I believe, swings off the Harlem Division and joins the present Penn Station Hudson River line just above that bridge....but my memory is a bit foggy on that one.

Here are the locations for the 2 movable bridges which you don't think exist.  They can be seen on Google Earth

Metro North's GCT line crossing into Manhattan:

40°48'40.17"N  73°56'0.12"W

Amtrak's crossing of Pelham Bay on the way to NYP:

 40°51'48.41"N  73°49'4.11"W

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Posted by northeaster on Saturday, January 5, 2013 2:16 PM

MM, the Pelham Bay bridge, in the many trips I have taken, was never open to prevent our train from crossing that small waterway. Since I commuted for some years on what is now Metro North into GCT, I also never encountered a problem with that bridge.  So, factually, I stand corrected, in fact the amount of water traffic on those two waterways never interferred with any of my many rides. But thanks for your prompt and civil correction.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, January 5, 2013 10:53 PM

I don't doubt that the bridges are but rarely opened.  I've ridden the lines a few times and was never stopped at the bridges.  I noticed a couple of barges on the inlet above the Pelham bridge, but who knows if they are active.  The Harlem River bridge got me to thinking about the NY Circle Line  Their website shows a 2 deck boat, so maybe it fits under the 25' clearance of the bridge in the down position.  They mention that they might not be able to complete the circumnavigation of Manhattan at high tide.

There is actually another draw bridge south of Pelham Bay across the Bronx River near Westchester Ave, however, apparently the movable function has been deactivated.

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Posted by northeaster on Sunday, January 6, 2013 6:40 AM

MM,about two years ago I took the Circle Line cruise and we did barely slip under that bridge. One of the best views of Manhatten is from Amtrak crossing the huge Hell's Gate Bridge, especially in the late afternoon/evening when it is backlit by the setting sun: worth a trip alone.

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, January 6, 2013 8:50 AM

Yeah, remember these are tidal waters so sometimes there is a raising of the bridges and sometimes not for the same boats.  

Amtrak Employee info shows moveable bridge at Pelham Bay only.  MNRR shows (out of GCT) Harlem RIver bridge, CP230 (CosCob, CT) . CP241 (E. Norwalk) CP244 (Westport), and at Devon.  All that are listed in the employee timetables and instructions.

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Posted by John WR on Sunday, January 6, 2013 8:11 PM

northeaster
One of the best views of Manhatten is from Amtrak crossing the huge Hell's Gate Bridge, especially in the late afternoon/evening when it is backlit by the setting sun: worth a trip alone.

I'm surprised more people don't realize that.  I guess because it involves railroads American culture is not inclined to acknowledge the sheer beauty of the bridge.  But we should acknowledge it.  

Especially when the bridge is closed.  

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Posted by northeaster on Monday, January 7, 2013 9:26 AM

JohnWR, the Hell's Gate Bridge is a fixed bridge with a clearance over water of 135 feet:therefore, no lift or movable opening needed. As MM reports, there is a working swing bridge on that Hell's Gate route and possibly one more over a small waterway which may no longer function. If you experienced an Amtrak train on that route being stopped by an open bridge, it was not the Hell's Gate Bridge.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 7, 2013 10:15 AM

It was at Pelham Bay Park near the boarder of The Bronx and Westchester County.   But you may have been stopped for some other reason.

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, January 7, 2013 10:31 AM

daveklepper

It was at Pelham Bay Park near the boarder of The Bronx and Westchester County.   But you may have been stopped for some other reason.

Moveable Bridge at Pelham Bay, MP 15.5 from NYP as noted.  No other moveable bridge until MNRR at Cos Cob, CT at MP30.

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Posted by John WR on Monday, January 7, 2013 11:06 AM

northeaster
JohnWR, the Hell's Gate Bridge is a fixed bridge with a clearance over water of 135 feet:therefore, no lift or movable opening needed. As MM reports, there is a working swing bridge on that Hell's Gate route and possibly one more over a small waterway which may no longer function. If you experienced an Amtrak train on that route being stopped by an open bridge, it was not the Hell's Gate Bridge.

I have been riding trains that crossed the Hell Gate Bridge since 1959.  I cannot recall a single time when my train was stopped for that bridge.   And I still enjoy just looking at it as my train approaches it from Manhattan.  The tracks curve as they approach so there is a good view of the bridge.  Over the years I have done a bit of reading about the bridge too and, of course, I've seen many pictures of it.  I know more about the Hell Gate bridge than I know about any other bridge in the world.  

And despite all of that I still contend it is a life bridge.  I ought to be horsewhipped.  

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Posted by art11758 on Monday, January 7, 2013 11:29 AM

To answer the original question, I'm pretty sure for many reasons already noted, the answer is no. The "7" train almost serves both stations and it's connection at GCT is pretty far below street level. (I swear I passed Satan's office while descending) The other (subway) trains that serve GCT (the 4,5,&6) are much closer to the main concourse.

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, January 7, 2013 12:14 PM

A life bridge, yes.  A lift bridge, no.  No part of the bridge moves up or down nor swings left or right to make space for a passing water vessel.  But viewed from any angle, including aboard a train crossing it, it is a moving site, so huge and stark over the waters of the East River as well as the approaches on either bank.

And, yes, it does have one of the greatest views of Manhattan.  I also offer up a scoot up the corridor from Newark with the towering skyscrapers peeking over Bergen Hill.  And one I found almost by accident after years of traveling up and down the hill from Summit on the DL&W: at about Short Hills around 3PM on a sunny winter's day when the sun reflects off the canyon walls some 15 miles distant.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, January 7, 2013 12:59 PM

art11758

To answer the original question, I'm pretty sure for many reasons already noted, the answer is no. The "7" train almost serves both stations and it's connection at GCT is pretty far below street level. (I swear I passed Satan's office while descending) The other (subway) trains that serve GCT (the 4,5,&6) are much closer to the main concourse.

Are you sure it was not Lex Luthor's office you passed?

Forty-three years ago, I made the mistake of not taking the shuttle to Grand Central when transferring from Penn Station, and thought I would never get up to the station, When we were in New York six years ago, we took a taxi each way.

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Posted by gkazin on Monday, January 7, 2013 3:05 PM

The simplest (but not always fastest, due to surface traffic) route between Penn Station and Grand Central is the M4 or Q32 bus.  Their runs begin on 32nd St a bit east of Penn Station, cross to Madison Ave, and then go uptown - passing a short block west of Grand Central.  The return runs down Fifth Avenue; it boards in front of the New York Public Library and ends on 32nd Street just east of 7th Ave.  This is especially useful for people with mobility problems (bad knees, breathing issues, heart conditions, etc), avoiding lots of stairs, escalators, and elevators.  The buses have lifts for wheelchairs.

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Posted by John WR on Monday, January 7, 2013 7:53 PM

gkazin
The simplest (but not always fastest, due to surface traffic) route between Penn Station and Grand Central is the M4 or Q32 bus. 

I never thought about the M4 but I am familiar with the line.  My wife and I go to museums on or near 5th Avenue.  And, getting older, we avoid the stairs in the subway.  The M4 is just a half block away from Penn Station and lets us off nearer the Met and other museums than the subway would.  Thanks for the good information.  

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Posted by John WR on Monday, January 7, 2013 7:58 PM

henry6
A life bridge, yes.  A lift bridge, no.

You sure are one stubborn guy, Henry.  Is there nothing I can say to persuade you that the Hell Gate is a lift bridge?  

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, January 7, 2013 8:52 PM

John WR

henry6
A life bridge, yes.  A lift bridge, no.

You sure are one stubborn guy, Henry.  Is there nothing I can say to persuade you that the Hell Gate is a lift bridge?  

Here is a picture of Hell Gate Bridge.  Does this look like a lift bridge?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hell_Gate_Bridge_by_Dave_Frieder.jpg

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:03 AM

I stand corrected.   You are correct.   The M5 goes down to Washington Square and the M4 to and from Penn Station.   I hope I did not lead anyone to take the wrong bus!

Last time I used either was 16-1/2 years ago so pardon my memory slip.

If you did take the wrong bus on my account, let me know and I'll send you a worthwhile present as a request for forgiveness.

If I was in a hurry, of course I used the subway, changing at Times Square.   But not if I had luggage or and reasonable time, then the bus.

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 8:07 AM

daveklepper

I stand corrected.   You are correct.   The M5 goes down to Washington Square and the M4 to and from Penn Station.   I hope I did not lead anyone to take the wrong bus!

Last time I used either was 16-1/2 years ago so pardon my memory slip.

If you did take the wrong bus on my account, let me know and I'll send you a worthwhile present as a request for forgiveness.

If I was in a hurry, of course I used the subway, changing at Times Square.   But not if I had luggage or and reasonable time, then the bus.

Taxi!  Taxi!  

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by John WR on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 8:28 PM

MidlandMike
Here is a picture of Hell Gate Bridge.  Does this look like a lift bridge?

Yup.  That looks exactly like the Hell Gate, Mike.  When it is closed.  

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 8:55 PM

John WR

MidlandMike
Here is a picture of Hell Gate Bridge.  Does this look like a lift bridge?

Yup.  That looks exactly like the Hell Gate, Mike.  When it is closed.  

A Google search of  "hell gate bridge" yields over 2 million results.  Perhaps you could find a picture of the bridge in a position other than fixed.

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Posted by timz on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 12:34 PM

Unlikely he actually thinks it's a lift bridge.

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Posted by John WR on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:51 PM

MidlandMike
A Google search of  "hell gate bridge" yields over 2 million results.  Perhaps you could find a picture of the bridge in a position other than fixed.

I tried, Mike.  I looked at 2,397,241 pictures.  But you know the bridge is only rarely open.  

John

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Posted by John WR on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:53 PM

timz
Unlikely he actually thinks it's a lift bridge.

Do you accuse me of a LIE over something as important as the Hell Gate Bridge opening?  That is dissspicKable.  I dissspicK your accusation.  

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:28 PM

John WR

MidlandMike
A Google search of  "hell gate bridge" yields over 2 million results.  Perhaps you could find a picture of the bridge in a position other than fixed.

I tried, Mike.  I looked at 2,397,241 pictures.  But you know the bridge is only rarely open.  

John

Less than 1 out of 2,397,241.  That's rare indeed.

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Posted by John WR on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:33 PM

MidlandMike
Less than 1 out of 2,397,241.  That's rare indeed.

Very rare.  I'm going to go and sit beneath the Hell Gate Bridge.  And I'm going to take my camera with me.  And when the bridge opens I'm going to take a picture of it.  And I'm going to bring that picture to this forum and post it on this forum and say, "THERE."  Now you can see that the Hell Gate bridge really does open and all you guys are just wrong.  Wrong.  WRONG!

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Posted by aegrotatio on Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:30 AM
John, I just wanted you to know that I got the joke.

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