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Assigned seating in the Northeast

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Posted by RJSillars on Monday, October 5, 2009 11:47 PM
Major European trains seem to have slots by all the seats with reservations data on boarding point and alighting point and passenger name on little slips of paper. Don't know how they do it, but they do. If you don;t have a reservation the tags allow you to pick seat that are available for your part of the trip. In 1967 I worked on the CZ and the Conductor had car cards for the coaches that folded to allow shorts to be filled in the available space. DZ had a similar system. As an earlier thread noted the station based assignments often got 'adjusted'.
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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:19 AM

It isn't only a "Northeast" problem.  I took three short-hops on the "Empire Builder", in cattle cars (coaches), this summer.  One trip was spent, almost entirely, in the dining car.  The other two were in the "Sightseer Lounge".  In the coaches, the car attendandants had "reserved" about 80% of the cars for "couples only".  Screw that!  I wonder how they handle that on the "Vermonter".  Most of the "couples only" seats were empty, and I voluntarily moved when a family of four arrived.  Why'd they do dat?  Do they have that authority?  I don't think so.  I took the seat-check signs down and ensconced myself by the window.  I got no complaint from the attendants.  Granted, a true seat assignment regime would work, but not a guessing system.

Now, the coach attendants, blocking out six seats for themselves is another problem.  Mr. Boardman needs to get on a train, now-and-then, if he doesn't have a fear...  I saw David Gunn on six of my trips.  There was a "hands-on" railroader, not a politician!

Hays

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:11 PM

RJSillars
ajor European trains seem to have slots by all the seats with reservations data on boarding point and alighting point and passenger name on little slips of paper. Don't know how they do it, but they do

 

In Germany, on the ICE trains, the reserved seat marking is plugged in  from the central computer as the seat is taken at a ticket window or online by the passenger.  I wonder why we can't simply copy that system?

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:17 PM

BNSFwatcher
In the coaches, the car attendandants had "reserved" about 80% of the cars for "couples only".  Screw that!  I wonder how they handle that on the "Vermonter".  Most of the "couples only" seats were empty, and I voluntarily moved when a family of four arrived.  Why'd they do dat?  Do they have that authority?  I don't think so.  I took the seat-check signs down and ensconced myself by the window. 

 

I suppose it never occurred to you that the car attendants were trying to be helpful - to hold pairs of seats so people travelling together (the 80%, perhaps) might be able to sit together?

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Tuesday, October 6, 2009 3:34 PM

No.  That never occurred to me.  The coach attendants are trying to keep the seating litter-free, so thay won't have too much cleaning to do at the end of the run.  I, gladly, give up my seat to make way for families and groups, when I travel in the "cattle car".  I have even seen people do this on the NYC subways!  Holding a pair of seats for a "couple", from CHI to WFH is stupid, when the car attendant doesn't have a projection of boarding passengers.  Seat assignments would be nice, keeping the "Yuppies" dirty sneakers off other's seats, but I don't want to be ensconced with a "double-wide" or smelly doper, let alone a minority!  BTW, we "travel" in America.  If you want to "travell", go to Canada or GB.

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, October 7, 2009 10:16 AM

BNSFwatcher
BTW, we "travel" in America.  If you want to "travell", go to Canada or GB.

If you have a dictionary, you will find either form is acceptable, including in the US. 

BNSFwatcher
thay

You won't find that word in any dictionary.

You seem to have some serious problems with tolerance of other people who are "different" from you, other cities, etc.  As I said earlier, even without an exact projection, it is a nice service to hold pairs of seats since the bulk of travelers are in pairs.  Perhaps you will have to travel by air first class  in the future, as you are more likely to be seated with people you can tolerate.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by CTValleyRR on Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:18 AM

As a frequent traveller on NEC trains to NYC and the Pennsylvanian on into PA, I can tell you that many people consider the seat next to them as their personal luggage space rather than as seating for a strainger.  I have observed people make room for others grudgingly or not at all when asked.  The "I have my ear buds in, so I can't hear you ask if you can sit next to me." is a popular ploy.

If you're getting on either of these trains at an intermediate station with another person or, heaven forbid, a family of 5 like mine, plan on a huge hassle trying to find seats together.  People who will actually get up and move to allow you to do so are becoming increasingly rare.

Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford

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Posted by aegrotatio on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 8:51 AM

On every trip I ever made since the 1980s (NE Regional, NE Direct, Metroliner 2) the conductors always force two-seat hoggers to move the bag or put it in the overhead.  If they don't the bag is moved to the end of the car.  They do this routinely at every stop.  Interestingly, I have never seen a two-seat hogger on an Acela and I think there are some pretty obvious reasons that they aren't on those trains.

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 1, 2012 11:03 AM

aegrotatio

I should update the thread, and I did eventually get a thoughtful reply from Amtrak but several days after I had asked.

They stated that logistics prevents them from handling assigned seating and as others have noted the conductors will try to accomodate you if you let them know beforehand.  The NEC routes are not practical for assigned seating for logistical reasons but other routes are more easily handled.

I didn't want to leave this thread hanging.  The response I got from Amtrak was thoughtful as always, but late. 

Here is a bit of update and perspective on the issue of assigned seats on Amtrak. Following six trips on the NEC between Baltimore and Washington in November and December of this year (2011), I wrote to Mr. Boardman regarding the issue of gate rushing and assigned seats on Amtrak trains. Amongst other things I pointed out to him that a fight had nearly broken out at Washington Union Station because of line jumping, which was caused by the need to line-up 30 minutes before train time to get a good seat. Getting a seat in the quiet car appeared to be a high priority for many of the folks near the head of the line.  

I received a nicely worded bureaucratic response from one of his assistants.  She stated that Amtrak had experimented with assigned seats, without providing any details, and found the process did not work.  She said that assigning seats would make it difficult for last minute ticket buyers, families, etc. Bull! The airlines do it.  

Computers make assigning seats a snap.  In the case of American Airlines, irrespective of when you buy your ticket, even if you are a last minute walk-up, the reservation system assigns you a seat.  If you don't like it and there are other seats available, you can change them with a click of your mouse button or ask the ticket counter agent for a better seat.  

You cannot get on an Amtrak train without showing your ticket or in the case of last minute reservations for unattended stations a printout of your reservation.  Which means you have to make a reservation, although in some instances you can buy a ticket from the conductor, I believe, who can only sell you a seat if one is available.  Not many people try to buy tickets on the train or I should say at the door. In any case, even if you buy your ticket five minutes before train time, irrespective of where the reservation is made, it goes into the reservation system, which would know instantly which seats are available and could assign them.

This is another example of the market insensitivity of a government bureaucracy.  It does not have any competition. It is not motivated to do things better, faster, cheaper, with the operative word being better.  It is an example of why competition should be baked into passenger rail as well as anything else that can be performed by a properly regulated, competitive enterprise(s).  

One possible way to do it would be to have a third party own the rails in the NEC, as well as any other location where the rails are owned by a government entity, i.e. the proposed California High Speed Rail Project, and allow competing operators to operate trains over them as long as they meet the required operating and safety standards.  This would require some serious out-of-the-box thinking, which is unlikely to happen given the constraints of government operations.     

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Sunday, January 1, 2012 2:34 PM

BNSFwatcher

No.  That never occurred to me.  The coach attendants are trying to keep the seating litter-free, so thay won't have too much cleaning to do at the end of the run.  I, gladly, give up my seat to make way for families and groups, when I travel in the "cattle car".  I have even seen people do this on the NYC subways!  Holding a pair of seats for a "couple", from CHI to WFH is stupid, when the car attendant doesn't have a projection of boarding passengers.  Seat assignments would be nice, keeping the "Yuppies" dirty sneakers off other's seats, but I don't want to be ensconced with a "double-wide" or smelly doper, let alone a minority!  BTW, we "travel" in America.  If you want to "travell", go to Canada or GB.

You seem to have some serious problems with tolerance of other people who are "different" from you, other cities, etc. 

I hope "BNSFWatcher" was not serious in making the remark "let alone a minority!"  The days when persons of one race were seated in one portion of the train, of another race in a different portion of the train were a sad chapter in American history.

On the other hand, I am not so sure about "calling out" someone who expresses concerns about seating with regard to social tolerance.  All modes of transportation have "issues" with social interactions with our fellow passengers and Americans.  Even on the roads where you have your own personal "pod" in the form of an automobile, truck, or SUV, you still have to interact with other drivers.  There is a certain spirit of, shall we call it individualism, here in the U.S., which asserts itself in traffic manners -- slower-than-traffic-flow drivers occupying left lanes, etc., which would not go over well, say, in Germany.

What you are providing with a transportation service such as Amtrak, a highway, an airline, at some level is a service.  Perhaps because subsidized Amtrak doesn't feel the bite of the bottom line as other services do, there may be some issues with respect to seating that Amtrak could resolve in a better way to better promote use of trains and put more people in a frame of mind to support expanded train service politically.  Some issues regarding standards of hygiene and personal courtesy may be baked into our culture and out of Amtrak's control. 

But during off-peak times when a coach is largely empty, why not allow people to occupy pairs of seats and ask them (politely) to accept seat-mates or even to move seats when the train fills up?  Why do people have to be bunched up when there are a lot of empty seats, and if this is for the convenience of the crew, well, they are making train travel a little less comfortable and maybe people choose alternatives?  This is an Amtrak management issue, and I don't think advocacy people should excuse Amtrak for all of their practices, and sometimes people want to be alone rather than having that nation-building experience of chatting with people from different parts of the country.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, January 3, 2012 1:53 PM

Sam1

 

 aegrotatio:

 

I should update the thread, and I did eventually get a thoughtful reply from Amtrak but several days after I had asked.

They stated that logistics prevents them from handling assigned seating and as others have noted the conductors will try to accomodate you if you let them know beforehand.  The NEC routes are not practical for assigned seating for logistical reasons but other routes are more easily handled.

I didn't want to leave this thread hanging.  The response I got from Amtrak was thoughtful as always, but late. 

 

Here is a bit of update and perspective on the issue of assigned seats on Amtrak. Following six trips on the NEC between Baltimore and Washington in November and December of this year (2011), I wrote to Mr. Boardman regarding the issue of gate rushing and assigned seats on Amtrak trains. Amongst other things I pointed out to him that a fight had nearly broken out at Washington Union Station because of line jumping, which was caused by the need to line-up 30 minutes before train time to get a good seat. Getting a seat in the quiet car appeared to be a high priority for many of the folks near the head of the line.  

I received a nicely worded bureaucratic response from one of his assistants.  She stated that Amtrak had experimented with assigned seats, without providing any details, and found the process did not work.  She said that assigning seats would make it difficult for last minute ticket buyers, families, etc. Bull! The airlines do it.  

Computers make assigning seats a snap.  In the case of American Airlines, irrespective of when you buy your ticket, even if you are a last minute walk-up, the reservation system assigns you a seat.  If you don't like it and there are other seats available, you can change them with a click of your mouse button or ask the ticket counter agent for a better seat.  

You cannot get on an Amtrak train without showing your ticket or in the case of last minute reservations for unattended stations a printout of your reservation.  Which means you have to make a reservation, although in some instances you can buy a ticket from the conductor, I believe, who can only sell you a seat if one is available.  Not many people try to buy tickets on the train or I should say at the door. In any case, even if you buy your ticket five minutes before train time, irrespective of where the reservation is made, it goes into the reservation system, which would know instantly which seats are available and could assign them.

This is another example of the market insensitivity of a government bureaucracy.  It does not have any competition. It is not motivated to do things better, faster, cheaper, with the operative word being better.  It is an example of why competition should be baked into passenger rail as well as anything else that can be performed by a properly regulated, competitive enterprise(s).  

One possible way to do it would be to have a third party own the rails in the NEC, as well as any other location where the rails are owned by a government entity, i.e. the proposed California High Speed Rail Project, and allow competing operators to operate trains over them as long as they meet the required operating and safety standards.  This would require some serious out-of-the-box thinking, which is unlikely to happen given the constraints of government operations.     

Not only can it be done, it IS being done.  Just not here.  The far more complex German intercity rail network does seat reservations.  Not only do they do it, they charge a premium for it.  There is no reason Amtrak couldn't or shouldn't do what they do, other than sloth.   Why not just buy the German reservation system as is?  I can do everything Amtrak could ever need.  It just might boost ridership and revenue per seat mile - all at once!

They already offer decent discounts for people travelling together, so the seat reservations aren't a burden for families travelling together.

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by aegrotatio on Sunday, January 8, 2012 8:33 PM

Acela coaches have electronic seat indicators but they have evidently been switched off since 2000.

 

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