I took my family of four on a few trips on Amtrak and the one major stress point was the lack of assigned seating. The gate-rushing at NY Penn Station and Union Station it wasn't very fun and is downright stressful for keeping a family together. It's obvious to me that people rush the gates to get good seats and for no other reason because Amtrak's trains are all reserved in the Northeast.
It would seem to me that having assigned seating would reduce gate-rushing and keep our family together. I would gladly pay an extra fee for assigned seating.
Before Acela service was initiated, I was asked to take several surveys by Amtrak and in the comments I stressed the importance of reserved trains, which did go into effect on all Northeast trains to my great relief. Today, however, I would be much more inclined to take my kids if we could have assigned seating, too.
In case you haven't seen the Acela it has an unused electronic assigned seating system installed on it.
Your problem is understandable but it is a matter of money and manpower. Having worked a little around the IT section of an airline; seat assignment takes a lot of memory and the present AMTRAK system may not have the capability of doing seat assignment. Part of the ARRA ( stimulus money ) is designated to upgrade the ARROW system. When that is done maybe there will be the seat assignment capability but does anyone know for sure?
aegrotatioI took my family of four on a few trips on Amtrak and the one major stress point was the lack of assigned seating. The gate-rushing at NY Penn Station and Union Station it wasn't very fun and is downright stressful for keeping a family together. It's obvious to me that people rush the gates to get good seats and for no other reason because Amtrak's trains are all reserved in the Northeast. It would seem to me that having assigned seating would reduce gate-rushing and keep our family together. I would gladly pay an extra fee for assigned seating. Before Acela service was initiated, I was asked to take several surveys by Amtrak and in the comments I stressed the importance of reserved trains, which did go into effect on all Northeast trains to my great relief. Today, however, I would be much more inclined to take my kids if we could have assigned seating, too.In case you haven't seen the Acela it has an unused electronic assigned seating system installed on it.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
On Saturday I took the Texas Eagle from Taylor, TX, which is about 25 miles southeast of my home in Georgetown, TX to Fort Worth to attend a concert. I stayed over night and caught the train home yesterday afternoon.
When I got on the train at Taylor, the car attendant told me that I was assigned to Seat #19. That was a first for me, so I asked her if Amtrak is assigning seats for coach travelers. "No", she said, "I thought that you would like a window seat, so I blocked one for you." She also recommended seats for the other three passengers who boarded at Taylor. Finding a desirable seat probably would not have been a problem, since the train appeared to have a load factor, at least in the coaches, of between 30 and 40 per cent. On the way home from Fort Worth, passengers were invited to board the train when it arrived in the FW station, which was approximately a half hour ahead of schedule, and pick whatever seat they desired. The load factor coming home was even less than the load factor going to Fort Worth, so finding a desirable seat was no problem.
Ironically, I find the coach seats on Superliner equipped trains to be more comfortable than the seats in a roomette. That might not be the case if I was seated next to a porker or someone who was a stranger to a shower, but I think that I am going to try a coach seat to Chicago when I go there in October. If I pick a light travel date, e.g. Tuesday or Wednesday, which retired people can do, I should be able to get a seat to myself, at least as far at St. Louis. And it will cost me a lot less than a roomette.
Although I did not have a problem getting a desirable seat on the Eagle, I would vote for Amtrak to adopt assigned seats if the process was similar to that found on the airlines, i.e. pick you seat from a seating diagram when you make your reservation, Southwest to the contrary not withstanding. It would avoid the rush at major stations like New York, Washington, Chicago, etc. Oh, by the way, there is no passenger gate rush at Taylor, in part because there is not gate; unless you think five or more people boarding the train is a rush.
I had a nice ride. The train was on time in both directions. It is amazing what the recession has done for the Texas Eagle's schedule performance. It has been on time this summer with the same degree of regularity as it was late last summer.
Going to Fort Worth I had lunch in the redesigned dinner/lounge car. It was decent. Best of all, it was served by a waiter who did not have an attitude problem.
i totally agree! every time I travel with my family short or long distance the stress of finding seats together ruins the trip. Recently I found paper tickets from a family trip in 1966 on the PA railroad and Sante Fe and believe it or not, we had seat assignments....imagine that, two railroads and long distance travel with seat assignments!
I didn't say at first but I also sent that letter to Amtrak.
Just like I have nightmares of idiots cutting the line to get into the Holland Tunnel, I have nightmares of idiots rushing the gates in NYP and WAS, but that's one dangerous situation when the people really aren't idiots.
At the very least, Business Class on the Regional and Quiet Cars on all trains should offer assigned seats for a fee.
It's madness. The Holland Tunnel stress is much less than gate-rushing.
I guess part of the problem is that getting there is not half the fun and most any mode of transportation requires some manner of social cooperation among strangers that may result in some crowd stress. Whether it is a plane, train, or bus, it is still a common carrier mode of transportation where you have to sit in close quarters with strangers of varying personal habits for long periods of time. In the automobile, you have your own cabin and personal or family space, but you still have to share the road space with others.
A train has slightly wider seats and generally more legroom than a bus or plane, and people go on about the joyful socializing taking place among strangers in Amtrak lounge cars, making it sound like the cliches about comraderie in old war movies, but a some level, a train, like a plane, is just another kind of bus.
I remember one of the students in our lab, who explained how in Japan if you bump into someone on a crowded train or train platform, you don't say "sorry" or "excuse me." It is sort of assumed that some crowd contact is unavoidable, and to say "excuse me" is considered rude because it is calling attention to oneself rather than accepting the circumstances of the crowd, and when it is explained that way, and given the urban crowds in major cities in Japan, and the cultural adjustments made for that way of life, it all makes sense.
Even the reserved seat system that is common across airline travel (is Southwest different?) is not perfect. There is a kind of "gate rush on the Internet" these days to get seat assignments, and one can reserve weeks in advance and find it is hard to find two seats together. That airlines have caught wise to passenger preferences in seats, and the "good seats" required paying extra fees. Especially exit row seats -- it is kind of scary that exit rows, which most regard as a boost in legroom rather than any extra responsibility in paying attention to crew instructions, go to the highest bidder, and not dying in a runway accident is something that costs extra money.
Even with reserved seating, airlines have the "gate rush" of people boarding so as to get the carry-on baggage space, especially to put their bowling ball bags in the overhead. You carefully listen to the boarding row calls and only get up when your row is called, and if you get in line a second early, you always manage to get scolded by the gate agent and told to get back in line, but as soon as you get on the plane, someone with a smug smile is always occupying the aisle seat of the row you are in, the overhead bin is always packed jammed full already, and there is the inevitable look of "who me?" when you ask to enter your row to take your assigned seat and carefully jam your bag "underneath the seat in front of you" so you get to spend the flight with your feet tucked under your knees.
If airline travel is so bad, what about trains? Yes, what about them. They have their own set of social conventions and inconveniences. Travel is just plain work.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
While riding the Lakeshore two weeks ago, we found sections of coach seats reserved for "couples" and another set reserved for "groups." It was nice that my wife and I didn't have to be split up. We were given assigned seats on the Empire Builder and Capitol Limited as well.
Terry
What is interesting is what the public doesn't understand. Usually a train ticket only guarantees you a ride, not neccessarily a seat. Thus "reserved" seating which only guarantees you an available seat (100 available seats, 100 tickets sold) and not a specific seat or seating arrangment. So next step would be assigned reserved seats. But at what cost? Is that extra cost neccessary? Why?
Riding commuter trains in peak hours can be most fun. Especially if you don't normally ride that given train. Over time commuters fall into routines and seating is by rote based on seniority; same train, same seat, same commuter, everyday. A new comer or casual rider can upset that routine by sitting in a seat usually claimed by a regular commuter. At least that's the way it used to be. I understand today that most are lucky if they can get a seat in the same car each day much less the same seat. Do trainmen still "rent" card boards...certain seats would be arranged to face each other and a 'board" and a deck of cards would be "rented" to them by the trainman,the board on their laps and a relaxing, friendly game of Old Maid (wink) would ensue on the homebound journey.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
On the trains I usually ride seats for groups of two or more are assigned by the car attendant as you board. Then the singles are allowed to board.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I had not lived in New York City very long before I figured out how to go down the back stairs at Pennsylvania Station to best position myself for a seat on a train. It worked practically every time.
Southwest Airlines does not assign seats. Passengers vie for a boarding group, with "A" boarding first, then B, then C. The trick is to go online 24 hours in advance of your departure time and get an "A" boarding pass. This means that you will be amongst the first to board, although you will not be in the first group. The first group is reserved for Business Select passengers. Moreover, starting today, Southwest will charge $10 for passengers who want to be in a second preferred boarding group. I am not sure whether it will be the "A" group or some other group. Southwest's boarding procedure is cumbersome. Most people line up ½ hour before boarding is scheduled to begin, partially out of habit, to ensure that they get as close to the front of the group as possible. Most veteran travelers will do anything within reason to avoid the middle seat. I fly Southwest if the fare is significantly better than the other carriers, but I always select another carrier if the price is competitive, and I can get an assigned seat. Moreover, I never have a problem with the overhead bins because I always check my luggage. Yep, it cost me $15 to check a bag, but when all is said and done, flying is cheaper than driving and in most instances taking the train, especially if traveling by sleeper.
I am not advocating assigned seats for commuter trains or extremely short haul trains. But I am advocating them for most intercity trains. With computers and on-line reservations, it could be done for minimal cost. It would take away the hassle of jostling for the best seats. However, I don't look for Amtrak to adopt assigned seating. Its management simply lacks the imagination for this sort of customer friendly option. Too bad! They should take a lesson from the airline playbook.
"In the automobile, you have your own cabin and personal or family space, but you still have to share the road space with others." This is the major reason why most people prefer to commute or travel over short to intermediate distances by car. It is true that you must share the road with other motorists, but that is dramatically different from sharing a seat with someone who is a stranger to showers or who insists are shouting into a cell phone. Maybe I have missed something along the way to my 70th birthday, but it strikes me that a lot of people today don't care how their behavior impacts their fellow travelers.
Sam1 but that is dramatically different from sharing a seat with someone who is a stranger to showers or who insists are shouting into a cell phone.
oltmanndSam1 but that is dramatically different from sharing a seat with someone who is a stranger to showers or who insists are shouting into a cell phone. Give the current "shape" of Americans, I worry more about getting stuck next to a guy who takes up 130% of his seat!
You're right! Your risk assessment skills appear to be better than mine.
Nearly 70 per cent of Americans are over weight or obese, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. So the worst case scenario is a porker who has not had a shower in a week shouting into a cell phone. What is the probability?
Now you know why Amtrak wanted that extra 4 inches on each Acela car.
Sam1the worst case scenario is a porker who has not had a shower in a week shouting into a cell phone. What is the probability?
Pretty good odds, IMO and experience.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
aegrotatio I took my family of four on a few trips on Amtrak and the one major stress point was the lack of assigned seating. The gate-rushing at NY Penn Station and Union Station it wasn't very fun and is downright stressful for keeping a family together. It's obvious to me that people rush the gates to get good seats and for no other reason because Amtrak's trains are all reserved in the Northeast. It would seem to me that having assigned seating would reduce gate-rushing and keep our family together. I would gladly pay an extra fee for assigned seating. Before Acela service was initiated, I was asked to take several surveys by Amtrak and in the comments I stressed the importance of reserved trains, which did go into effect on all Northeast trains to my great relief. Today, however, I would be much more inclined to take my kids if we could have assigned seating, too. In case you haven't seen the Acela it has an unused electronic assigned seating system installed on it.
All Amtrak northeast service is by the Northeast Regional Trains and the Acela, nobody stands, 100 mph service (up to 150 mph on the Acela). You are reserving seating space, not a special seat. Amtrak WILL NOT OVERBOOK as do airlines. This is the way it should work, and does most of the time, as a passenger on a reserved train, prior to loading, you line up and will have your ticket checked for Train, Date, and Class of travel as they load. ( if Amtrak does not have enough people to maintain a line, then that's a "black eye" for Amtrak). Regional Trains are Reserved Coach and Reserved Business Class, the Acela is Reserved Business Class and Reserved First Class only.
Now to make you happy, Amtrak has awarded the IT Contract to IBM. IBM to provide data center services, mainframes, mid-range servers, security services, and asset management. They will also provide Help Desk and desk top support services for 10,000 workstations nationwide. IBM will support the infrastructure for Amtrak's Reservation System.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
I've observed 125 mph on the Northeast Regionals. My stomach tries to steer the train. I call it "Metroliner 3."
Back about assigned seating. I thought about the idea of meeting new people and how important that can be, but my kids aren't old enough to meet strangers. When they're older it would be great, but at these ages (below 10) I still want assigned seating.
It seems simple enough to implement for Regional Business Class and Acela First Class.
Don, is this AARA stimulus fund for the IBM contract? Or was that just for Amtrak.com web site?
aegrotatio Don, is this AARA stimulus fund for the IBM contract? Or was that just for Amtrak.com web site?
The story in "Railpace Magazine" was titled "Amtrak Awards" and starts "Amtrak has tapped IBM ----"
Back in the 1990s, long before my retirement, Amtrak ran one "Metroliner" to New Haven, parked it overnight, and then back south the next morning. I planned to take it on Mondays, it left "end of wire" in New Haven at 5:40 AM and got me to Washington a little after 11 AM. On Fridays I would book the northbound "Metroliner" (the only one to go through to New Haven) Business Class to get the free meal, it put me home about 8:30 PM.
DMUinCTNow to make you happy, Amtrak has awarded the IT Contract to IBM. IBM to provide data center services, mainframes, mid-range servers, security services, and asset management. They will also provide Help Desk and desk top support services for 10,000 workstations nationwide. IBM will support the infrastructure for Amtrak's Reservation System.
oltmanndDMUinCTNow to make you happy, Amtrak has awarded the IT Contract to IBM. IBM to provide data center services, mainframes, mid-range servers, security services, and asset management. They will also provide Help Desk and desk top support services for 10,000 workstations nationwide. IBM will support the infrastructure for Amtrak's Reservation System. WARNING: Thread hijack in progress... 10,000 workstations for 25,000,000 riders a year? That's 7 reservations per workstation per day. Your tax dollars at work.....
To be fair, it would appear that the IBM contract covers a lot more than just the reservation system.
You don't really think there will be 10,000 work stations in the reservation system, do you?
Do you think perhaps Amtrak might be using computers to track, maint, payroll, employee scheduling, accounting, payroll, public relations, etc?
Phoebe VetoltmanndDMUinCTNow to make you happy, Amtrak has awarded the IT Contract to IBM. IBM to provide data center services, mainframes, mid-range servers, security services, and asset management. They will also provide Help Desk and desk top support services for 10,000 workstations nationwide. IBM will support the infrastructure for Amtrak's Reservation System. WARNING: Thread hijack in progress... 10,000 workstations for 25,000,000 riders a year? That's 7 reservations per workstation per day. Your tax dollars at work..... You don't really think there will be 10,000 work stations in the reservation system, do you? Do you think perhaps Amtrak might be using computers to track, maint, payroll, employee scheduling, accounting, payroll, public relations, etc?
HI,
Going back to the earlier thread about assigned seating, didn't assigned seating work back in the days before amtrak?
Jim
stocksj HI, Going back to the earlier thread about assigned seating, didn't assigned seating work back in the days before amtrak? Jim
Johnny
According to my 1957 Pennsylvania Railroad Schedule, coach seats on The Trail Blazer, which was combined with The General, and the South Wind were reserved. The General-The Trail Blazer (48 and 49) ran between Chicago and New York, with connections in Harrisburg for Washington. The coaches from Harrisburg to Washington were not reserved. The South Wind (90 and 93) operated between Chicago and Miami on an every third day (approximate) schedule.
A seat on the Trail Blazer and South Wind carried an extra fare of $1.00, plus tax, for all distances over 360 miles, and 50 cents, plus tax, locally on the PRR for all distances to and including 360 miles. The charge was for each seat whether it was occupied by an adult or child of any age.
During 1955 - 57, whilst I was a student in high school, I rode The Trail Blazer from New York to Altoona, where I lived, on several occasions. If I remember correctly, I was assigned a seat.
In 1957 and 1958, whilst living in Miami, I took the Atlantic Coast Line's East Coast Champion to and from Washington on two occasions. If I remember correctly, the seats on it were reserved and assigned.
I believe the seats on the Trail Blazer were managed out of Philadelphia. Thus, if a person in Altoona wanted to book a seat on the train, he had to go to the station and put in his request. The agent had to call Philadelphia for a seat. A neighbor who worked for the PRR - most of my neighbors worked for the PRR, told me that they posted the reservations on paper car diagrams in Philadelphia and then confirmed the reservation to the requesting station agent. I don't know whether this is true, but it seems reasonable.
The Trail Blazer had what I thought at the time were very nice coaches. They had large mirrors at the end of the seating areas, as well as spacious lounges and lavatories at each end of the coach. They could seat 44 passengers if I remember correctly. I believe they were bought after WW II as part of the PRR's effort to upgrade its premier passenger trains. I don't know who built them or their class; maybe someone can help me with their history.
A large block of PRR's postwar long-distance coaches, especially those for the East-West trains, were home-built, probably at Altoona.
I think I'm fortunate that my trips originate at NYP and WAS where the trains themselves originate empty. If I were to originate at Philadelphia or Baltimore I would be even more in demand of assigned seating on all Northeast routes. This is why families with young kids do not take the train!!
I should update the thread, and I did eventually get a thoughtful reply from Amtrak but several days after I had asked.
They stated that logistics prevents them from handling assigned seating and as others have noted the conductors will try to accomodate you if you let them know beforehand. The NEC routes are not practical for assigned seating for logistical reasons but other routes are more easily handled.
I didn't want to leave this thread hanging. The response I got from Amtrak was thoughtful as always, but late.
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