Acela coaches have electronic seat indicators but they have evidently been switched off since 2000.
Sam1 aegrotatio: I should update the thread, and I did eventually get a thoughtful reply from Amtrak but several days after I had asked. They stated that logistics prevents them from handling assigned seating and as others have noted the conductors will try to accomodate you if you let them know beforehand. The NEC routes are not practical for assigned seating for logistical reasons but other routes are more easily handled. I didn't want to leave this thread hanging. The response I got from Amtrak was thoughtful as always, but late. Here is a bit of update and perspective on the issue of assigned seats on Amtrak. Following six trips on the NEC between Baltimore and Washington in November and December of this year (2011), I wrote to Mr. Boardman regarding the issue of gate rushing and assigned seats on Amtrak trains. Amongst other things I pointed out to him that a fight had nearly broken out at Washington Union Station because of line jumping, which was caused by the need to line-up 30 minutes before train time to get a good seat. Getting a seat in the quiet car appeared to be a high priority for many of the folks near the head of the line. I received a nicely worded bureaucratic response from one of his assistants. She stated that Amtrak had experimented with assigned seats, without providing any details, and found the process did not work. She said that assigning seats would make it difficult for last minute ticket buyers, families, etc. Bull! The airlines do it. Computers make assigning seats a snap. In the case of American Airlines, irrespective of when you buy your ticket, even if you are a last minute walk-up, the reservation system assigns you a seat. If you don't like it and there are other seats available, you can change them with a click of your mouse button or ask the ticket counter agent for a better seat. You cannot get on an Amtrak train without showing your ticket or in the case of last minute reservations for unattended stations a printout of your reservation. Which means you have to make a reservation, although in some instances you can buy a ticket from the conductor, I believe, who can only sell you a seat if one is available. Not many people try to buy tickets on the train or I should say at the door. In any case, even if you buy your ticket five minutes before train time, irrespective of where the reservation is made, it goes into the reservation system, which would know instantly which seats are available and could assign them. This is another example of the market insensitivity of a government bureaucracy. It does not have any competition. It is not motivated to do things better, faster, cheaper, with the operative word being better. It is an example of why competition should be baked into passenger rail as well as anything else that can be performed by a properly regulated, competitive enterprise(s). One possible way to do it would be to have a third party own the rails in the NEC, as well as any other location where the rails are owned by a government entity, i.e. the proposed California High Speed Rail Project, and allow competing operators to operate trains over them as long as they meet the required operating and safety standards. This would require some serious out-of-the-box thinking, which is unlikely to happen given the constraints of government operations.
aegrotatio: I should update the thread, and I did eventually get a thoughtful reply from Amtrak but several days after I had asked. They stated that logistics prevents them from handling assigned seating and as others have noted the conductors will try to accomodate you if you let them know beforehand. The NEC routes are not practical for assigned seating for logistical reasons but other routes are more easily handled. I didn't want to leave this thread hanging. The response I got from Amtrak was thoughtful as always, but late.
I should update the thread, and I did eventually get a thoughtful reply from Amtrak but several days after I had asked.
They stated that logistics prevents them from handling assigned seating and as others have noted the conductors will try to accomodate you if you let them know beforehand. The NEC routes are not practical for assigned seating for logistical reasons but other routes are more easily handled.
I didn't want to leave this thread hanging. The response I got from Amtrak was thoughtful as always, but late.
Here is a bit of update and perspective on the issue of assigned seats on Amtrak. Following six trips on the NEC between Baltimore and Washington in November and December of this year (2011), I wrote to Mr. Boardman regarding the issue of gate rushing and assigned seats on Amtrak trains. Amongst other things I pointed out to him that a fight had nearly broken out at Washington Union Station because of line jumping, which was caused by the need to line-up 30 minutes before train time to get a good seat. Getting a seat in the quiet car appeared to be a high priority for many of the folks near the head of the line.
I received a nicely worded bureaucratic response from one of his assistants. She stated that Amtrak had experimented with assigned seats, without providing any details, and found the process did not work. She said that assigning seats would make it difficult for last minute ticket buyers, families, etc. Bull! The airlines do it.
Computers make assigning seats a snap. In the case of American Airlines, irrespective of when you buy your ticket, even if you are a last minute walk-up, the reservation system assigns you a seat. If you don't like it and there are other seats available, you can change them with a click of your mouse button or ask the ticket counter agent for a better seat.
You cannot get on an Amtrak train without showing your ticket or in the case of last minute reservations for unattended stations a printout of your reservation. Which means you have to make a reservation, although in some instances you can buy a ticket from the conductor, I believe, who can only sell you a seat if one is available. Not many people try to buy tickets on the train or I should say at the door. In any case, even if you buy your ticket five minutes before train time, irrespective of where the reservation is made, it goes into the reservation system, which would know instantly which seats are available and could assign them.
This is another example of the market insensitivity of a government bureaucracy. It does not have any competition. It is not motivated to do things better, faster, cheaper, with the operative word being better. It is an example of why competition should be baked into passenger rail as well as anything else that can be performed by a properly regulated, competitive enterprise(s).
One possible way to do it would be to have a third party own the rails in the NEC, as well as any other location where the rails are owned by a government entity, i.e. the proposed California High Speed Rail Project, and allow competing operators to operate trains over them as long as they meet the required operating and safety standards. This would require some serious out-of-the-box thinking, which is unlikely to happen given the constraints of government operations.
Not only can it be done, it IS being done. Just not here. The far more complex German intercity rail network does seat reservations. Not only do they do it, they charge a premium for it. There is no reason Amtrak couldn't or shouldn't do what they do, other than sloth. Why not just buy the German reservation system as is? I can do everything Amtrak could ever need. It just might boost ridership and revenue per seat mile - all at once!
They already offer decent discounts for people travelling together, so the seat reservations aren't a burden for families travelling together.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
BNSFwatcher No. That never occurred to me. The coach attendants are trying to keep the seating litter-free, so thay won't have too much cleaning to do at the end of the run. I, gladly, give up my seat to make way for families and groups, when I travel in the "cattle car". I have even seen people do this on the NYC subways! Holding a pair of seats for a "couple", from CHI to WFH is stupid, when the car attendant doesn't have a projection of boarding passengers. Seat assignments would be nice, keeping the "Yuppies" dirty sneakers off other's seats, but I don't want to be ensconced with a "double-wide" or smelly doper, let alone a minority! BTW, we "travel" in America. If you want to "travell", go to Canada or GB.
No. That never occurred to me. The coach attendants are trying to keep the seating litter-free, so thay won't have too much cleaning to do at the end of the run. I, gladly, give up my seat to make way for families and groups, when I travel in the "cattle car". I have even seen people do this on the NYC subways! Holding a pair of seats for a "couple", from CHI to WFH is stupid, when the car attendant doesn't have a projection of boarding passengers. Seat assignments would be nice, keeping the "Yuppies" dirty sneakers off other's seats, but I don't want to be ensconced with a "double-wide" or smelly doper, let alone a minority! BTW, we "travel" in America. If you want to "travell", go to Canada or GB.
You seem to have some serious problems with tolerance of other people who are "different" from you, other cities, etc.
I hope "BNSFWatcher" was not serious in making the remark "let alone a minority!" The days when persons of one race were seated in one portion of the train, of another race in a different portion of the train were a sad chapter in American history.
On the other hand, I am not so sure about "calling out" someone who expresses concerns about seating with regard to social tolerance. All modes of transportation have "issues" with social interactions with our fellow passengers and Americans. Even on the roads where you have your own personal "pod" in the form of an automobile, truck, or SUV, you still have to interact with other drivers. There is a certain spirit of, shall we call it individualism, here in the U.S., which asserts itself in traffic manners -- slower-than-traffic-flow drivers occupying left lanes, etc., which would not go over well, say, in Germany.
What you are providing with a transportation service such as Amtrak, a highway, an airline, at some level is a service. Perhaps because subsidized Amtrak doesn't feel the bite of the bottom line as other services do, there may be some issues with respect to seating that Amtrak could resolve in a better way to better promote use of trains and put more people in a frame of mind to support expanded train service politically. Some issues regarding standards of hygiene and personal courtesy may be baked into our culture and out of Amtrak's control.
But during off-peak times when a coach is largely empty, why not allow people to occupy pairs of seats and ask them (politely) to accept seat-mates or even to move seats when the train fills up? Why do people have to be bunched up when there are a lot of empty seats, and if this is for the convenience of the crew, well, they are making train travel a little less comfortable and maybe people choose alternatives? This is an Amtrak management issue, and I don't think advocacy people should excuse Amtrak for all of their practices, and sometimes people want to be alone rather than having that nation-building experience of chatting with people from different parts of the country.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
aegrotatio I should update the thread, and I did eventually get a thoughtful reply from Amtrak but several days after I had asked. They stated that logistics prevents them from handling assigned seating and as others have noted the conductors will try to accomodate you if you let them know beforehand. The NEC routes are not practical for assigned seating for logistical reasons but other routes are more easily handled. I didn't want to leave this thread hanging. The response I got from Amtrak was thoughtful as always, but late.
On every trip I ever made since the 1980s (NE Regional, NE Direct, Metroliner 2) the conductors always force two-seat hoggers to move the bag or put it in the overhead. If they don't the bag is moved to the end of the car. They do this routinely at every stop. Interestingly, I have never seen a two-seat hogger on an Acela and I think there are some pretty obvious reasons that they aren't on those trains.
As a frequent traveller on NEC trains to NYC and the Pennsylvanian on into PA, I can tell you that many people consider the seat next to them as their personal luggage space rather than as seating for a strainger. I have observed people make room for others grudgingly or not at all when asked. The "I have my ear buds in, so I can't hear you ask if you can sit next to me." is a popular ploy.
If you're getting on either of these trains at an intermediate station with another person or, heaven forbid, a family of 5 like mine, plan on a huge hassle trying to find seats together. People who will actually get up and move to allow you to do so are becoming increasingly rare.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
BNSFwatcherBTW, we "travel" in America. If you want to "travell", go to Canada or GB.
If you have a dictionary, you will find either form is acceptable, including in the US.
BNSFwatcher thay
You won't find that word in any dictionary.
You seem to have some serious problems with tolerance of other people who are "different" from you, other cities, etc. As I said earlier, even without an exact projection, it is a nice service to hold pairs of seats since the bulk of travelers are in pairs. Perhaps you will have to travel by air first class in the future, as you are more likely to be seated with people you can tolerate.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
BNSFwatcher In the coaches, the car attendandants had "reserved" about 80% of the cars for "couples only". Screw that! I wonder how they handle that on the "Vermonter". Most of the "couples only" seats were empty, and I voluntarily moved when a family of four arrived. Why'd they do dat? Do they have that authority? I don't think so. I took the seat-check signs down and ensconced myself by the window.
I suppose it never occurred to you that the car attendants were trying to be helpful - to hold pairs of seats so people travelling together (the 80%, perhaps) might be able to sit together?
RJSillarsajor European trains seem to have slots by all the seats with reservations data on boarding point and alighting point and passenger name on little slips of paper. Don't know how they do it, but they do
In Germany, on the ICE trains, the reserved seat marking is plugged in from the central computer as the seat is taken at a ticket window or online by the passenger. I wonder why we can't simply copy that system?
It isn't only a "Northeast" problem. I took three short-hops on the "Empire Builder", in cattle cars (coaches), this summer. One trip was spent, almost entirely, in the dining car. The other two were in the "Sightseer Lounge". In the coaches, the car attendandants had "reserved" about 80% of the cars for "couples only". Screw that! I wonder how they handle that on the "Vermonter". Most of the "couples only" seats were empty, and I voluntarily moved when a family of four arrived. Why'd they do dat? Do they have that authority? I don't think so. I took the seat-check signs down and ensconced myself by the window. I got no complaint from the attendants. Granted, a true seat assignment regime would work, but not a guessing system.
Now, the coach attendants, blocking out six seats for themselves is another problem. Mr. Boardman needs to get on a train, now-and-then, if he doesn't have a fear... I saw David Gunn on six of my trips. There was a "hands-on" railroader, not a politician!
Hays
I think I'm fortunate that my trips originate at NYP and WAS where the trains themselves originate empty. If I were to originate at Philadelphia or Baltimore I would be even more in demand of assigned seating on all Northeast routes. This is why families with young kids do not take the train!!
A large block of PRR's postwar long-distance coaches, especially those for the East-West trains, were home-built, probably at Altoona.
stocksj HI, Going back to the earlier thread about assigned seating, didn't assigned seating work back in the days before amtrak? Jim
HI,
Going back to the earlier thread about assigned seating, didn't assigned seating work back in the days before amtrak?
Jim
According to my 1957 Pennsylvania Railroad Schedule, coach seats on The Trail Blazer, which was combined with The General, and the South Wind were reserved. The General-The Trail Blazer (48 and 49) ran between Chicago and New York, with connections in Harrisburg for Washington. The coaches from Harrisburg to Washington were not reserved. The South Wind (90 and 93) operated between Chicago and Miami on an every third day (approximate) schedule.
A seat on the Trail Blazer and South Wind carried an extra fare of $1.00, plus tax, for all distances over 360 miles, and 50 cents, plus tax, locally on the PRR for all distances to and including 360 miles. The charge was for each seat whether it was occupied by an adult or child of any age.
During 1955 - 57, whilst I was a student in high school, I rode The Trail Blazer from New York to Altoona, where I lived, on several occasions. If I remember correctly, I was assigned a seat.
In 1957 and 1958, whilst living in Miami, I took the Atlantic Coast Line's East Coast Champion to and from Washington on two occasions. If I remember correctly, the seats on it were reserved and assigned.
I believe the seats on the Trail Blazer were managed out of Philadelphia. Thus, if a person in Altoona wanted to book a seat on the train, he had to go to the station and put in his request. The agent had to call Philadelphia for a seat. A neighbor who worked for the PRR - most of my neighbors worked for the PRR, told me that they posted the reservations on paper car diagrams in Philadelphia and then confirmed the reservation to the requesting station agent. I don't know whether this is true, but it seems reasonable.
The Trail Blazer had what I thought at the time were very nice coaches. They had large mirrors at the end of the seating areas, as well as spacious lounges and lavatories at each end of the coach. They could seat 44 passengers if I remember correctly. I believe they were bought after WW II as part of the PRR's effort to upgrade its premier passenger trains. I don't know who built them or their class; maybe someone can help me with their history.
Johnny
Phoebe VetoltmanndDMUinCTNow to make you happy, Amtrak has awarded the IT Contract to IBM. IBM to provide data center services, mainframes, mid-range servers, security services, and asset management. They will also provide Help Desk and desk top support services for 10,000 workstations nationwide. IBM will support the infrastructure for Amtrak's Reservation System. WARNING: Thread hijack in progress... 10,000 workstations for 25,000,000 riders a year? That's 7 reservations per workstation per day. Your tax dollars at work..... You don't really think there will be 10,000 work stations in the reservation system, do you? Do you think perhaps Amtrak might be using computers to track, maint, payroll, employee scheduling, accounting, payroll, public relations, etc?
oltmanndDMUinCTNow to make you happy, Amtrak has awarded the IT Contract to IBM. IBM to provide data center services, mainframes, mid-range servers, security services, and asset management. They will also provide Help Desk and desk top support services for 10,000 workstations nationwide. IBM will support the infrastructure for Amtrak's Reservation System. WARNING: Thread hijack in progress... 10,000 workstations for 25,000,000 riders a year? That's 7 reservations per workstation per day. Your tax dollars at work.....
DMUinCTNow to make you happy, Amtrak has awarded the IT Contract to IBM. IBM to provide data center services, mainframes, mid-range servers, security services, and asset management. They will also provide Help Desk and desk top support services for 10,000 workstations nationwide. IBM will support the infrastructure for Amtrak's Reservation System.
You don't really think there will be 10,000 work stations in the reservation system, do you?
Do you think perhaps Amtrak might be using computers to track, maint, payroll, employee scheduling, accounting, payroll, public relations, etc?
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
To be fair, it would appear that the IBM contract covers a lot more than just the reservation system.
aegrotatio Don, is this AARA stimulus fund for the IBM contract? Or was that just for Amtrak.com web site?
Don, is this AARA stimulus fund for the IBM contract? Or was that just for Amtrak.com web site?
The story in "Railpace Magazine" was titled "Amtrak Awards" and starts "Amtrak has tapped IBM ----"
Back in the 1990s, long before my retirement, Amtrak ran one "Metroliner" to New Haven, parked it overnight, and then back south the next morning. I planned to take it on Mondays, it left "end of wire" in New Haven at 5:40 AM and got me to Washington a little after 11 AM. On Fridays I would book the northbound "Metroliner" (the only one to go through to New Haven) Business Class to get the free meal, it put me home about 8:30 PM.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
I've observed 125 mph on the Northeast Regionals. My stomach tries to steer the train. I call it "Metroliner 3."
Back about assigned seating. I thought about the idea of meeting new people and how important that can be, but my kids aren't old enough to meet strangers. When they're older it would be great, but at these ages (below 10) I still want assigned seating.
It seems simple enough to implement for Regional Business Class and Acela First Class.
aegrotatio I took my family of four on a few trips on Amtrak and the one major stress point was the lack of assigned seating. The gate-rushing at NY Penn Station and Union Station it wasn't very fun and is downright stressful for keeping a family together. It's obvious to me that people rush the gates to get good seats and for no other reason because Amtrak's trains are all reserved in the Northeast. It would seem to me that having assigned seating would reduce gate-rushing and keep our family together. I would gladly pay an extra fee for assigned seating. Before Acela service was initiated, I was asked to take several surveys by Amtrak and in the comments I stressed the importance of reserved trains, which did go into effect on all Northeast trains to my great relief. Today, however, I would be much more inclined to take my kids if we could have assigned seating, too. In case you haven't seen the Acela it has an unused electronic assigned seating system installed on it.
I took my family of four on a few trips on Amtrak and the one major stress point was the lack of assigned seating. The gate-rushing at NY Penn Station and Union Station it wasn't very fun and is downright stressful for keeping a family together. It's obvious to me that people rush the gates to get good seats and for no other reason because Amtrak's trains are all reserved in the Northeast.
It would seem to me that having assigned seating would reduce gate-rushing and keep our family together. I would gladly pay an extra fee for assigned seating.
Before Acela service was initiated, I was asked to take several surveys by Amtrak and in the comments I stressed the importance of reserved trains, which did go into effect on all Northeast trains to my great relief. Today, however, I would be much more inclined to take my kids if we could have assigned seating, too.
In case you haven't seen the Acela it has an unused electronic assigned seating system installed on it.
All Amtrak northeast service is by the Northeast Regional Trains and the Acela, nobody stands, 100 mph service (up to 150 mph on the Acela). You are reserving seating space, not a special seat. Amtrak WILL NOT OVERBOOK as do airlines. This is the way it should work, and does most of the time, as a passenger on a reserved train, prior to loading, you line up and will have your ticket checked for Train, Date, and Class of travel as they load. ( if Amtrak does not have enough people to maintain a line, then that's a "black eye" for Amtrak). Regional Trains are Reserved Coach and Reserved Business Class, the Acela is Reserved Business Class and Reserved First Class only.
Now to make you happy, Amtrak has awarded the IT Contract to IBM. IBM to provide data center services, mainframes, mid-range servers, security services, and asset management. They will also provide Help Desk and desk top support services for 10,000 workstations nationwide. IBM will support the infrastructure for Amtrak's Reservation System.
Sam1the worst case scenario is a porker who has not had a shower in a week shouting into a cell phone. What is the probability?
Pretty good odds, IMO and experience.
Now you know why Amtrak wanted that extra 4 inches on each Acela car.
oltmanndSam1 but that is dramatically different from sharing a seat with someone who is a stranger to showers or who insists are shouting into a cell phone. Give the current "shape" of Americans, I worry more about getting stuck next to a guy who takes up 130% of his seat!
Sam1 but that is dramatically different from sharing a seat with someone who is a stranger to showers or who insists are shouting into a cell phone.
You're right! Your risk assessment skills appear to be better than mine.
Nearly 70 per cent of Americans are over weight or obese, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. So the worst case scenario is a porker who has not had a shower in a week shouting into a cell phone. What is the probability?
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