Because of outrageous gas prices a number of people are opting to ride a train these days. For many it will be their first trip on Amtrak and unfortunately on the long distance trains at least their chances of having an enjoyable trip that lives up to their expectations are probably no better that 50/50. Of course some are better than others ranging from the Empire Builder at the top to the Sunset Ltd at the bottom of the list. All too often the first time rider forms opinions of Amtrak based on excessively late trains, uncommunicative (even outright surly) employees, marginal or completely lacking ameneties, "bustitution" (the ultimate indignity), etc.
A good friend's daughter and her two pre-teen children just comleted a trip from Marshall, TX to Chicago on the Eagle and on to NYC on the Lake Shore. Her comment on the trip was, "Amtrak sucks". She won't be riding the train again but worse she'll tell her friends about the experience and those that might consider Amtrak for a future trip will be discouraged from taking the train. I'm aware of all the reasons a train trip today can turn out to be endured rather than enjoyed and the blame is shared between the freight railroads and Amtrak. It's sad that there are so many missed opportunities to leave the first time riders with a favorable impression of train travel.
My wife doesn't like to fly and of course I'm partial to train travel. We make several trips a year to Chicago to visit her relatives and take the Eagle from Marshall on the few occasions that we don't drive. In recent years we've had more bad trips than good ones mostly due to excessively late trains. I used to recommend taking the train to others but in all honesty these days when the subject come up in discussions I usually keep my mouth shut or sometimes apologize in advance for Amtrak's shortcomings. It's sad that a long time fan can no longer in good conscience advocate travel by train.
Mark
ndbprr wrote:So she took a two day trip (or longer) on the train with no shower or comfort and crappy scenery when she could have flown in two hours. The trip isn't where its at in our society. Time is money and by the time she added meals and the time it cost her the trip was more costly then any other form of transportation she could have used. Train travel isn't romantic. Nobody can afford a luxury trip (at least no average joe). Diesels gave a brief shot in the arm to train travel but that was 60 years ago. It just doesn't have enough sense to roll over and die. It is an antiquated service and not a viable 21st century method of travel for long distances.
It has obviously been along time since you rode the train, for sleeping car passengers showers are available on Amtrak long distance trains and the comfort in the bedrooms is far superior to anything that flys today. Lounge cars are available on the long distance trains and meals are part of the fare if you travel in a sleeper. Most meals are pretty good and beat airline fare. And many of the passengers I have talked to on the trains are making it part of the vacation. The major problem is a lack of equipment. All Amtrak California trains are operating at capacity as I write and a lack of equipment is turning passengers away. On some trains passengers are even standing. Amtrak has a large number of out of service cars at Beech Grove that need to be repaired and returned to service. If Amtrak had twice the number of Superliners available I dare say they could keep them full. Passengers with the increase in airfares and cancellation of flights are turning to Amtrak to get them to their destinations. With the increase in gasoline prices more and more people will travel by rail.
Al - in - Stockton
Mark-
You have hit the nail on the head. The real question is why is Amtrak travel like that? Why is the service quality so variable? Some if it, like on time performance, is partially out of Amtrak's control, but so much of it is within Amtrak's control.
If you want a reputation for quality, you have to do it right EVERY TIME! Not just when you're having a "good day."
Just one example: When I fly, even for one hour, I get to pick my seat. When I ride Amtrak's Crescent, I have to sit whereever the attendant decides to put me. If I book early, shouldn't I get to pick a better seat? I'd much prefer a mid-car window seat to windowless aisle seat at the car's end. All the seats are numbered, so why not? Heck, I'd even pay a few bucks for the priveledge.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
The lady I referred to in my first post was traveling with two kids on a limited budget so a sleeper was out of the question. The Amtrak coach fare was $732 one way for all three of them vs $1792 for a sleeper. Had she been able to afford a sleeper I'm sure she would have chosen to fly since the air fare was less, only $1695. Assuming the trains were on time (which I don't think they were) her trip took about 46 hrs vs 5-1/2 hours on a one stop flight. Even I, who like train travel, would have flown before paying that sleeper fare on Amtrak.
I've ridden coach on train trips of about 36 hours on the Southwind and City of Miami many years ago when those were excellent trains with all the ameneties. Even as a young man and a rabid railfan I was darn glad to reach my destination and get off the train. IMHO the service today falls way short of the standards of those times and 46 hrs (or more because the train is likely to be late, maybe very late) in an Amtrak coach is an ordeal not a vacation trip.
ndbprr wrote:I get roughly 1600 miles from Dallas to New York City. Cost of the train fare was $732.00 one way or $1464 roundtrip. The math works out the same if figured one way or roundtrip. $732/$4.25 per gallon = 172 gallons of gas. 1600 miles / 172 gallons = 9.3 miles per gallon required to break even. It was still probably cheaper to drive. Any better mileage than that and she would have come out ahead
Wheres the cost of insurance, depreciation, license, and wear and tear.
You still have the right to complain. I've held that Amtrak should have comment cards available on-train, just as stores, motels and restaurants have comment cards on-site.
If that isn't the case, you can still complain, and if you have any Amtrak system timetable it will state speficially how and IIRC offer more communications options than just e-mail.
Save your tickets and keep specifics handy. Remember the name of surly or ignorant on-train personnel. If s/he doesn't have a name badge on, make a note of what that person looks like before you get off the train. When you complain you'll have two complaints -- bad service and refusal for them to be responsible for their action by not I.D.'ing themselves as required.
We often -- not without reason -- say that Amtrak is "politicized." Yes, but there is a silver lining in that cloud: write your federal Representative! Or Senator(s)! Or all! Staffers notice if an elected official's mail starts running to new themes. You won't be identified as "that Amtrak crank" unless you're really out of line. Talking to people who have run the mail-answering machines in a congressman's office, the letter of new topic gets noticed so your complaint may stick out, but in a good way. Consider as well that there are probably other people who have complained to your federal elected officials and that yours may be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of getting anything done.
Don't forget your local paper, too.
I am full of cliches today, but I hope you'll do some of the above. This is true esp. since you have experience of good and bad trips, and therefore will have a basis of what goes right to conrast with what goes wrong (bad or sold-out food, bad help, excruciating lateness.) Amtrak keeps statistics on train tardiness -- in fact, I believe they're required to.
So many people today give up and say, "Never gonna happen." To which I answer, "You can't possibly predict the future." Besides, if you got it off your chest without exaggerating, you'll know you've done everything you can reasonably do. I share your low opinion of L-D Amtrak and along with the delays, the onboard attitude is VERY important. Think of the number of people who will condone a delay if the reason is given over the P.A. but get very antsy leaving to stew in their own juice. Cliche city, but I hope you'll identify. -- a.s.
passengerfan wrote: ndbprr wrote:I get roughly 1600 miles from Dallas to New York City. Cost of the train fare was $732.00 one way or $1464 roundtrip. The math works out the same if figured one way or roundtrip. $732/$4.25 per gallon = 172 gallons of gas. 1600 miles / 172 gallons = 9.3 miles per gallon required to break even. It was still probably cheaper to drive. Any better mileage than that and she would have come out aheadWheres the cost of insurance, depreciation, license, and wear and tear.Al - in - Stockton
I think the current IRS allowance for business use of a personal vehicle, which supposedly covers out of pocket costs as well as all the other items that Al mentions, is $0.48/mile. 1600 x $0.48 = $768, just slightly higher than the Amtrak coach fare. In any event driving wasn't an option for her since the family owns only one car and her husband, who didn't make the trip, needed it to get to and from work. For similar reasons and a host of others there are a lot of people who don't have the option of driving and are dependent on public transportaion.
I failed to mention that I got the Amtrak fares from their website. I noticed an anamoly in the sleeper fares which is a mystery to me. A family bedroom (which sleeps 3 persons) on the Eagle is $352 + the $366 coach fare. Apparently family BR's aren't available on the Lake Shore as they only show bedrooms (which sleep 2) and the fare is $712 + the $366 coach fare. Perhaps someone will enlighten me as to why the sleeper charge on the LS (for a lesser accommodation at that) is more than double that on the TE.
oltmannd wrote: Mark-You have hit the nail on the head. The real question is why is Amtrak travel like that? Why is the service quality so variable? Some if it, like on time performance, is partially out of Amtrak's control, but so much of it is within Amtrak's control.If you want a reputation for quality, you have to do it right EVERY TIME! Not just when you're having a "good day."Just one example: When I fly, even for one hour, I get to pick my seat. When I ride Amtrak's Crescent, I have to sit whereever the attendant decides to put me. If I book early, shouldn't I get to pick a better seat? I'd much prefer a mid-car window seat to windowless aisle seat at the car's end. All the seats are numbered, so why not? Heck, I'd even pay a few bucks for the priveledge.
While you didn't mention it, I'd be willing to bet that the station in Atlanta is nothing but an Amshack in a seedy part of the city. What a contrast to Atlanta's Hartsfield airport, the busiest in the nation.
al-in-chgo wrote: You still have the right to complain. I've held that Amtrak should have comment cards available on-train, just as stores, motels and restaurants have comment cards on-site. If that isn't the case, you can still complain, and if you have any Amtrak system timetable it will state speficially how and IIRC offer more communications options than just e-mail. Save your tickets and keep specifics handy. Remember the name of surly or ignorant on-train personnel. If s/he doesn't have a name badge on, make a note of what that person looks like before you get off the train. When you complain you'll have two complaints -- bad service and refusal for them to be responsible for their action by not I.D.'ing themselves as required. We often -- not without reason -- say that Amtrak is "politicized." Yes, but there is a silver lining in that cloud: write your federal Representative! Or Senator(s)! Or all! Staffers notice if an elected official's mail starts running to new themes. You won't be identified as "that Amtrak crank" unless you're really out of line. Talking to people who have run the mail-answering machines in a congressman's office, the letter of new topic gets noticed so your complaint may stick out, but in a good way. Consider as well that there are probably other people who have complained to your federal elected officials and that yours may be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of getting anything done.Don't forget your local paper, too. I am full of cliches today, but I hope you'll do some of the above. This is true esp. since you have experience of good and bad trips, and therefore will have a basis of what goes right to conrast with what goes wrong (bad or sold-out food, bad help, excruciating lateness.) Amtrak keeps statistics on train tardiness -- in fact, I believe they're required to. So many people today give up and say, "Never gonna happen." To which I answer, "You can't possibly predict the future." Besides, if you got it off your chest without exaggerating, you'll know you've done everything you can reasonably do. I share your low opinion of L-D Amtrak and along with the delays, the onboard attitude is VERY important. Think of the number of people who will condone a delay if the reason is given over the P.A. but get very antsy leaving to stew in their own juice. Cliche city, but I hope you'll identify. -- a.s.
Any service organization that would rely on comment cards to "fix" bad quality is already broken.
Amtrak's employees need incentive to provide first rate service right from the start.
KCSfan wrote: oltmannd wrote: Mark-You have hit the nail on the head. The real question is why is Amtrak travel like that? Why is the service quality so variable? Some if it, like on time performance, is partially out of Amtrak's control, but so much of it is within Amtrak's control.If you want a reputation for quality, you have to do it right EVERY TIME! Not just when you're having a "good day."Just one example: When I fly, even for one hour, I get to pick my seat. When I ride Amtrak's Crescent, I have to sit whereever the attendant decides to put me. If I book early, shouldn't I get to pick a better seat? I'd much prefer a mid-car window seat to windowless aisle seat at the car's end. All the seats are numbered, so why not? Heck, I'd even pay a few bucks for the priveledge.While you didn't mention it, I'd be willing to bet that the station in Atlanta is nothing but an Amshack in a seedy part of the city. What a contrast to Atlanta's Hartsfield airport, the busiest in the nation. Mark
Actually, no. The station decent and in a good part of town. There is no real parking there, though, and it's not convenient to MARTA rail or any of the suburban bus services.
But. there are no suburban Amtrak stops despite the route running straight thru the heavily populated northern suburbs. Next stop northbound it Gainesville - about 60 miles north, which is a very seedy station, in a seedy part of town, manned by a sloppy, not very professional station attendent. But, it is easier to use than the Atlanta-Brookwood station.
oltmannd wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: You still have the right to complain. I've held that Amtrak should have comment cards available on-train, just as stores, motels and restaurants have comment cards on-site. If that isn't the case, you can still complain, and if you have any Amtrak system timetable it will state speficially how and IIRC offer more communications options than just e-mail. Save your tickets and keep specifics handy. Remember the name of surly or ignorant on-train personnel. If s/he doesn't have a name badge on, make a note of what that person looks like before you get off the train. When you complain you'll have two complaints -- bad service and refusal for them to be responsible for their action by not I.D.'ing themselves as required. We often -- not without reason -- say that Amtrak is "politicized." Yes, but there is a silver lining in that cloud: write your federal Representative! Or Senator(s)! Or all! Staffers notice if an elected official's mail starts running to new themes. You won't be identified as "that Amtrak crank" unless you're really out of line. Talking to people who have run the mail-answering machines in a congressman's office, the letter of new topic gets noticed so your complaint may stick out, but in a good way. Consider as well that there are probably other people who have complained to your federal elected officials and that yours may be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of getting anything done.Don't forget your local paper, too. I am full of cliches today, but I hope you'll do some of the above. This is true esp. since you have experience of good and bad trips, and therefore will have a basis of what goes right to conrast with what goes wrong (bad or sold-out food, bad help, excruciating lateness.) Amtrak keeps statistics on train tardiness -- in fact, I believe they're required to. So many people today give up and say, "Never gonna happen." To which I answer, "You can't possibly predict the future." Besides, if you got it off your chest without exaggerating, you'll know you've done everything you can reasonably do. I share your low opinion of L-D Amtrak and along with the delays, the onboard attitude is VERY important. Think of the number of people who will condone a delay if the reason is given over the P.A. but get very antsy leaving to stew in their own juice. Cliche city, but I hope you'll identify. -- a.s. Any service organization that would rely on comment cards to "fix" bad quality is already broken.Amtrak's employees need incentive to provide first rate service right from the start.
"Incentive" should come in the form of a direct deposit that can be changed into many hundreds of green pieces of paper (or Presidential coins).
At K-Mart two years ago I had read an open letter from their CEO to offended K-Mart shoppers. Clearly they had been listening to their criticism, because he named poor situations that were going to be addressed, such as the interminal waits at a service counter or employees lounging aroujnd and sitting on the floor.
About two weeks later I came in with a Sunday color ad showing some stainless steel that looked good at a good price. I went to the houeswares section and saw some decent-enough sets of stainless but not what I wanted -- whether on sale or not. The help? Two youngish guys were SITTING ON THE FLOOR and neither would get up to help me. If it isn't there, it isn't there type attitude. I was referred to the service desk for a rain-check. Twelve people in line and only one booth staffed. I have never set foot in a K-Mart again and have no intention to (BTW, that store closed within six months).
OTOH I used to work for Target and they were one of the most considerate employers I ever had. Nobody who works at the public-contact level in big retail is going to get rich, but we were given some pointers on how to be pleasant ("Got a good price on that Tide, looks like") and efficient. There was always something for a checker to do, even if it was just bring the facings (those impulse items on pegs at the cash-register area) foward, make it look neat, change the cash-register spool of paper pre-emptively. If our area was free, we were to stand at the entry to the checkout line and say, "Open over here!" and stuff like that, which when you think about it amouns to applied common sense.
Here's the payoff: It was almost impossible to give surly service (sleepy service, sometimes, but if we tried our best that was okay). With just a litle bit of encouragement we were encouraged to find ways to relate to the customers ("guests") that made them feel better and us, too, because they let us find our own way to be nice.
In a free-market economy Target has boomed and K-Mart dwindled.
As for Amtrak, I don't believe there couldn't still be a shaking out. Again, let's look at the airline industry. Fewer planes carring higher-paying people on crowded flights call for the best flight attendants, not the most attitude-laden.
It is, sadly, the case that in some respects Amtrak seems to have frozen some services in time about the time the Nat'l Rail Passenger Corp was founded: The Sunset Limited with its vending machines, but on the plus side the Empire Builder and Southwest Limited (or it "Chief" now?) giving above-average service. I won't claims it's better but somehow decisions are being made as to where the best employees are working, I'd say.
I am not out to bust unions or privatize Amtrak as such. I do wonder, though, if the train services could be farmed out to some company like Marriot for the food prep and sleeping-car attendants, and possibly what we used to call "Trainmen" in general. Anyone with a full-time Amtrak job would be free to apply for the job in competition with anyone else. Since hospiality employment is a plus, it would be only fair to let the Amtrak'ers count some of that service in their background. It's the grandfathering-in and rigidity of seniority that bothers me. And yes, complaining does work. PM me and I'll tell how I got an extra coach put on the Panama Limited one Easter weekend, though that was many years ago.
I know I sound like a Johnny one-note to me. But if Amtrak's budget increases by over forty percent, as seems to be happening, it won't matter much if new or expanded equipment is still tended to by rude or careless staff. Look then for a lot of start-up express bus companies running point-to-point on the Interstates, not thru every Hamlet. That's basically what happend in England when the trains got too grubby and too expensive. - a.s.
Al in Chicago, what we ought to do is insist Congress get rid of Alex K and put you in the job. For serious, you might have to take a brief strike before everyone realized it was really happening, but Amtrak would come out of that quickly and with attitudes adjusted, not only the employees but also the current management.
Oh, well, I can dream, can't I?
al-in-chgo wrote: oltmannd wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: You still have the right to complain. I've held that Amtrak should have comment cards available on-train, just as stores, motels and restaurants have comment cards on-site. If that isn't the case, you can still complain, and if you have any Amtrak system timetable it will state speficially how and IIRC offer more communications options than just e-mail. Save your tickets and keep specifics handy. Remember the name of surly or ignorant on-train personnel. If s/he doesn't have a name badge on, make a note of what that person looks like before you get off the train. When you complain you'll have two complaints -- bad service and refusal for them to be responsible for their action by not I.D.'ing themselves as required. We often -- not without reason -- say that Amtrak is "politicized." Yes, but there is a silver lining in that cloud: write your federal Representative! Or Senator(s)! Or all! Staffers notice if an elected official's mail starts running to new themes. You won't be identified as "that Amtrak crank" unless you're really out of line. Talking to people who have run the mail-answering machines in a congressman's office, the letter of new topic gets noticed so your complaint may stick out, but in a good way. Consider as well that there are probably other people who have complained to your federal elected officials and that yours may be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of getting anything done.Don't forget your local paper, too. I am full of cliches today, but I hope you'll do some of the above. This is true esp. since you have experience of good and bad trips, and therefore will have a basis of what goes right to conrast with what goes wrong (bad or sold-out food, bad help, excruciating lateness.) Amtrak keeps statistics on train tardiness -- in fact, I believe they're required to. So many people today give up and say, "Never gonna happen." To which I answer, "You can't possibly predict the future." Besides, if you got it off your chest without exaggerating, you'll know you've done everything you can reasonably do. I share your low opinion of L-D Amtrak and along with the delays, the onboard attitude is VERY important. Think of the number of people who will condone a delay if the reason is given over the P.A. but get very antsy leaving to stew in their own juice. Cliche city, but I hope you'll identify. -- a.s. Any service organization that would rely on comment cards to "fix" bad quality is already broken.Amtrak's employees need incentive to provide first rate service right from the start."Incentive" should come in the form of a direct deposit that can be changed into many hundreds of green pieces of paper (or Presidential coins). At K-Mart two years ago I had read an open letter from their CEO to offended K-Mart shoppers. Clearly they had been listening to their criticism, because he named poor situations that were going to be addressed, such as the interminal waits at a service counter or employees lounging aroujnd and sitting on the floor. About two weeks later I came in with a Sunday color ad showing some stainless steel that looked good at a good price. I went to the houeswares section and saw some decent-enough sets of stainless but not what I wanted -- whether on sale or not. The help? Two youngish guys were SITTING ON THE FLOOR and neither would get up to help me. If it isn't there, it isn't there type attitude. I was referred to the service desk for a rain-check. Twelve people in line and only one booth staffed. I have never set foot in a K-Mart again and have no intention to (BTW, that store closed within six months). OTOH I used to work for Target and they were one of the most considerate employers I ever had. Nobody who works at the public-contact level in big retail is going to get rich, but we were given some pointers on how to be pleasant ("Got a good price on that Tide, looks like") and efficient. There was always something for a checker to do, even if it was just bring the facings (those impulse items on pegs at the cash-register area) foward, make it look neat, change the cash-register spool of paper pre-emptively. If our area was free, we were to stand at the entry to the checkout line and say, "Open over here!" and stuff like that, which when you think about it amouns to applied common sense. Here's the payoff: It was almost impossible to give surly service (sleepy service, sometimes, but if we tried our best that was okay). With just a litle bit of encouragement we were encouraged to find ways to relate to the customers ("guests") that made them feel better and us, too, because they let us find our own way to be nice. In a free-market economy Target has boomed and K-Mart dwindled. As for Amtrak, I don't believe there couldn't still be a shaking out. Again, let's look at the airline industry. Fewer planes carring higher-paying people on crowded flights call for the best flight attendants, not the most attitude-laden. It is, sadly, the case that in some respects Amtrak seems to have frozen some services in time about the time the Nat'l Rail Passenger Corp was founded: The Sunset Limited with its vending machines, but on the plus side the Empire Builder and Southwest Limited (or it "Chief" now?) giving above-average service. I won't claims it's better but somehow decisions are being made as to where the best employees are working, I'd say. I am not out to bust unions or privatize Amtrak as such. I do wonder, though, if the train services could be farmed out to some company like Marriot for the food prep and sleeping-car attendants, and possibly what we used to call "Trainmen" in general. Anyone with a full-time Amtrak job would be free to apply for the job in competition with anyone else. Since hospiality employment is a plus, it would be only fair to let the Amtrak'ers count some of that service in their background. It's the grandfathering-in and rigidity of seniority that bothers me. And yes, complaining does work. PM me and I'll tell how I got an extra coach put on the Panama Limited one Easter weekend, though that was many years ago. I know I sound like a Johnny one-note to me. But if Amtrak's budget increases by over forty percent, as seems to be happening, it won't matter much if new or expanded equipment is still tended to by rude or careless staff. Look then for a lot of start-up express bus companies running point-to-point on the Interstates, not thru every Hamlet. That's basically what happend in England when the trains got too grubby and too expensive. - a.s.
Bingo! Now, why don't we here some of this kind of stuff from NARP, etc?
passengerfan wrote: The major problem is a lack of equipment. All Amtrak California trains are operating at capacity as I write and a lack of equipment is turning passengers away. On some trains passengers are even standing. Amtrak has a large number of out of service cars at Beech Grove that need to be repaired and returned to service.
The major problem is a lack of equipment. All Amtrak California trains are operating at capacity as I write and a lack of equipment is turning passengers away. On some trains passengers are even standing. Amtrak has a large number of out of service cars at Beech Grove that need to be repaired and returned to service.
I agree with your thought that more equipment would be profitably utilized right now, and any time you turn a potential customer away you are risking long-term alienation.
Rosters of the Amtrak equipment in service are available. For example, On Track On Line has one by car number and type. You can review it on their web site -- it's under the tab "Amtrak Rosters".
However, I have never found a list of the Beach Grove cars awaiting repair. Others have said that some of thei Beach Grove cars are destined for the scrap yard and are there awaiting insurance payments and/or the finalizaton of lawsuits. I've taken a look at Beach Grove on Google Earth, and there did not appear to be any large number of cars there.
Does anyone know where I could find such a list?
I suppose Amtrak could provide a list of cars there but I doubt they would without a sufficient reason why you wanted to know. I don't recall any public carrier ever making such a list available.
Oh, I would say that a person doesn't have a sufficient reason to know the inner workings of a public carrier, unless, say, that carrier was the recipient of over one billion dollars in yearly Federal subsidy out of general revenue.
What kind of talk is this of having a sufficient reason to know? There are over 300 million people with sufficient reason to know anything and everything about Amtrak. If they want to keep business secrets, Amtrak can go out and raise their own money on equity markets and only have to answer to a smaller pool of shareholders.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
How it functions internally and where the cars are isn't really anything a normal non railfan would want to know.
Our local passenger rail advocacy group took a tour of our local transit agency's bus garage. The General Manager (i.e. the CEO) told us exactly how many buses they had and gave us a tour of the facility, showing us the buses they had down for maintenance and the bays they had for parking the buses in operation, explaining that they parked the whole fleet indoors overnight so they would last longer.
Haven't heard from DHS . . . yet.
There is information that Amtrak doesn't let out, and getting a 5th car on the Hiawatha was the doing of our Wisconsin DOT guy who looked over reports he got from Amtrak. In other words, a state government official, party to the payment of state money to Amtrak, had to do detective work to find out what Amtrak had. Amtrak may not be forthcoming with information, but the Wisconsin DOT is forthcoming with any and all information they have or are able to obtain, and their people have a cordial relationship with the advocacy community, support from whom and all other citizens they rely upon to maintain operation of the Hiawatha.
Again, I agree that there is information that even people with "a need to know" have to pry out of Amtrak. I disagree with the analogy regarding "need to know" about the "order of battle" of Air Force squadrons or Navy ships, but my guess is that information is publically available as part of the budget process -- when Reagan's Secretary of the Navy John Lehman lobbied for a "600 ship" Navy, the number of ships in the Navy was not a secret.
This business regarding whether a "rail fan" has a "need to know" regarding the disposition of cars on the Amtrak network. Amtrak may not tell you, they may not even know fully as evidenced by the Wisconsin DOT experience, but that doesn't make it right.
It is also one thing to say "tough luck getting that out of Amtrak", and it is another thing to suggest that Amtrak is justified in their approach to transparency out of some supposed national security justification. Some in the railfan/rail advocacy community tend to align themselves with "railroad thinking" regarding public disclosure, skepticism regarding innovation, and so on. I suppose a "railfan" has no "need to know" this information just as a railfan truly has no "need to photograph trains from Metra or NJT platforms", but the advocacy community along with every other citizen who is party to the funding of Amtrak through tax money has a need to know this. It is one thing if Amtrak is that way, but to have someone from the community trying to think up reasons to justify this is another matter.
To be fair to Amtrak, they certainly disclose a wealth of information in their monthly performance reports (available on their website). It is a whole lot more than any private company in the transportation business would ever disclose.
Nevertheless, I agree that some form of a routine public accounting on the status of each of their cars would be useful, as well as the normal consist of each of their trains. With passenger traffic climbing, it would appear that cars are/will be the critical limiting resource for the system. Perhaps it is time to begin building a new generation of cars; but without the data on usage of the current fleet, it is impossible to say that with any certainty.
Approximately 18 months ago I asked Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) for emissions data for a paper that I was writing for a continuing education course. The objective of the paper was to test the assertion that public transport reduces significantly air pollution in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.
DART gave me the information that I requested, i.e. ridership numbers for each bus, light rail, and commuter rail line, in Excel spreadsheets. In addition, they shared with me information about the emissions generated by their vehicles, contracts for green energy, diesel fuel contracts, EPA compliance measures, etc. They even provided the information that they had gathered about the social composition of their riders.
Information regarding the vehicles, including availability, seating and standing capacity, age, cost, etc. was available on the DART Webpage. Subsequently, I ask DART management for a clarification of some of this information. They responded positively to every request.
Before one assumes that a public corporation or government agency will not provide appropriate information, he or she should ask for it. Doing so nicely can frequently produce a good outcome.
Public corporations and quasi governmental organizations are required by law to make their key financial data available to the public. They are not, however, required to make their operations data available, although many of them do so.
Information costs money. My employer, which was a large electric utility, employed hundreds of accountants to generate reams of financial and operation data. The salaries and overheads associated with these employees ran into the millions of dollars.
Because my employer was an investor owned electric utility, which subjected it to oversight by the Texas Public Utility Commission, we were required to provide more data to the public than was required of most businesses. In fact, we oftentimes were required to provide more data than state agencies.
Amtrak, as an example, has to weigh the cost of generating the data, i.e. equipment status information, against the utility of the information. Who is going to use it? For what? How will the data impact management decisions? Is making the information public relevant to the operation of the business?
If making the information available five days after the end of the month would have no impact on management's decisions, or it would be used by very few people, then the results would not justify the additional cost. And management would be correct in not incurring it to generate the information.
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