As a northeast corridor rider of Amtrak, I regularly take the Acela Express between Boston and NYC and sometimes down to DC as well. The service is very timely, generally on time and the service levels are better than the airlines without the hassle of security or transportation to and from the airport.
That said, the long distance trains or trains that have to continually compete with freight traffic will never improve in terms of efficiency, speed, etc until there is a concerted effort to force the freight RRs to give passenger trains priority class scheduling regardless of circumstance similar to how it was back in the 30s-50s when the private RRs actually cared about their passenger service. So blaming Amtrak will go nowhere, everyone needs to female dog and moan to our inept congressional reps and senators and our dysfunctional president to effect further change as Amtrak cant do anything that will have any sustained effect without long term financial commitments.
As far as extra cars and refurbishing, there are probably 20-30 Amfleet I's at Wilmington, DE shops as we fly by them everytime I venture down to DC. They are just sitting on the tracks and dont seem to ever go anywhere...so I would add those to the list of available cars as well...
Hopefully after November, things may improve though doubtful from either party.
For May 2008, 12.4 per cent of the Amtrak passenger car fleet was out of service. For the fiscal year to date 14.3 per cent of the passenger car fleet, on average, was out of service.
Clearly, Amtrak has a list of bad order cars, or it could not have come up with the number of cars out of service. And it could make it available to "need to know persons" or the public for little incremental cost. But as frequently is the case there is more to the issue than meets the eye.
As we learned in the electric utility industry, once information is released, it tends to generate a slew of follow-up questions. People might want to know the work order status for all of the bad order cars, i.e. which cars are being repaired, which cars are slated to be junked pending insurance settlements; how were the cars damaged; how much does repairing a car cost compared to replacing it; how much will the insurance cover; who is performing the work, etc. Believe me, once the information is released, the recipients will come up with thousands of questions about the initial data. This begs the next issue!
To what extent should Amtrak respond to follow-up questions? If it refused to do so, some people, undoubtedly, would complain that it was not fulfilling its responsibility to keep the public informed of its internal operations, even thought it has no obligation to share this information with the general public.
Like most organizations Amtrak uses contractors to perform some of its work. In many instances it solicits competitive bids from contractors to perform the work. Some of the car work is contracted or sub-contracted. If it inadvertently released information regarding the cars that were the subject of competitive bidding, it could violate its policies and procedures, as well as generally accepted purchasing and contracting practices, associated with its bidding processes. Before it released the information, it would have to cull it to make sure that confidential information that could impact the bid process was not being released.
If the information is e-mailed to interested groups and persons, Amtrak would have to keep a list of the recipients. Periodically, it would have to edit the list to determine if the recipients still wanted the information. Or if they are still alive! Moreover, people frequently change ISPs without notifying others of their new e-mail address. This results in an undelivered message. The sender (Amtrak) has to delete the undelivered message or more likely take the time to determine why it was not delivered. Maintaining mailing lists can be expensive. And if they are not culled periodically, they can take up a significant amount of server space. And server space costs money.
If Joe Congressman asks Amtrak for a list of bad order cars, he may get it. If the Chairman of the House Infrastructure and Transportation Committee asks for it, he will likely get it.
If Joe Doaks from Timbuktu asks for a list of bad order cars, he probably will not get it, unless he can demonstrate a need for it. But Joe can write to his federal representatives and ask them to sponsor or endorse legislation to enable Amtrak to buy more equipment.
If the head of a state DOT asks for car information, in conjunction with a current or anticipated Amtrak contract, he will probably get it because he has a legitimate need to know. However, if his state has a contract with Amtrak, with a car shortage, he can discuss with Amtrak the need for additional capacity without knowing how many units are in Amtrak's bad order car inventory, although the issue may become relevant when the conferees turn to discussing the source of additional equipment.
Last year the California DOT told Amtrak that it needed additional capacity on the Surfliners between LA and San Diego. The parties discussed several options, including whether Amtrak had any cars that could be repaired and returned to service. As it turned out it had four Superliners that could be repaired. California agreed to pick-up the tab. The cost was more than $1 million per car. I know, because I rode one of them in March when I was in California. But making this information available to the public had no impact, as far as I can tell, on Cal DOT's need and the choice it opted for to obtain additional equipment.
Also we're in the internet age, aren't we? Even if there's a signifigant cost to produce the information, AMTRAK probably has a business need already to have that information, and probably is producing it anyway. I'm willing to bet a dollar or 2 that the cost to disseminate it via internet is not signifigant.
Now that's not to say that AMTRAK has to convert it from their proprietary format to one that I can read, although I'm also willing to bet that AMTRAK's distributing it internally in some Bill Gates product. I don't see that the intent of these comments is to require AMTRAK to make something new, but somewhere Mr. Beech Grove AMTRAK must be sending Mr. Washington DC AMTRAK a report of what junk equipment Mr. Chicago AMTRAK sent him last week. And I'm sure willing to bet a dollar or 2 that they didn't use an old fashioned typewriter to produce the report. I'm sure the number of cc's is a fixed cost for AMTRAK's email bill.
Now we will look a little bit foolish if it turns out that AMTRAK's already supplying it to some rail advocacy group or government agency who is posting it on a website somewhere and we just didn't google properly.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
I agree that if there was an incremental cost to Amtrak in generating roster information, then anyone wishing it should have to bear that burden.
However, surely roster status information is at the fingertips of the management folk, and producing it would be as simple as printing it off someone's computer. I'll bet if I were on the House or Senate Transportation Committee and asked for it, the response would be "do you want us to messenger it over, or should we e-mail it?"
Paul Milenkovic wrote: Amtrak, as an example, has to weigh the cost of generating the data, i.e. equipment status information, against the utility of the information. Who is going to use it? For what? How will the data impact management decisions? Is making the information public relevant to the operation of the business?You betcha this information is important. It is important to Wisconsin DOT trying to get a fifth coach for the Hiawatha; it is important to WisARP, which has made adding a second Chicago-Minneapolis train a priority and needs to have something intelligent to say about feasibility to the politicians who could make this happen. It is important to Illinois, which expanded its in-state service using existing Amtrak equipment. It is important to California, where there was talk of CalTrans coming up with the money to refurbish such cars to expand the Amtrak California service.
Amtrak, as an example, has to weigh the cost of generating the data, i.e. equipment status information, against the utility of the information. Who is going to use it? For what? How will the data impact management decisions? Is making the information public relevant to the operation of the business?
You betcha this information is important. It is important to Wisconsin DOT trying to get a fifth coach for the Hiawatha; it is important to WisARP, which has made adding a second Chicago-Minneapolis train a priority and needs to have something intelligent to say about feasibility to the politicians who could make this happen. It is important to Illinois, which expanded its in-state service using existing Amtrak equipment. It is important to California, where there was talk of CalTrans coming up with the money to refurbish such cars to expand the Amtrak California service.
If the request for information comes from a source that has some skin in the game, e.g. Winconsin DOT, then Amtrak should make it available if they have it. If it incurrs an additional cost to produce it, the requester should pay for the information.
If the request comes from a fan group, Amtrak has no obligation to provide the information. It might be good public relations, but if Amtrak responded to every request for information from fan groups, it would probably incur a significant incremental cost to do so.
One way to test the legitimacy of a request for information is to ask the requestor to pay the incremental cost associated with assembling and producing it. This is what we did on "nice to know" requests. Amazingly, many of the requests died when the requirement to pay for the information was put on the table.
I have been posting to this forum long enough to realize that very few people stay on the originating topic. No worries!
What got this all started was the statement/assertion/inference/insight I am going to pin on Don Oltmann that Amtrak has a fairly substantial pool of bad-ordered or perhaps in cases simply removed-from-service Amcoaches on a dead line somewhere at Beech Grove, Indiana or other place along with perhaps a smaller number of Superliners. The conjecture is that Amtrak is not receiving enough money from fares and from Congress for restoring and operating these cars, even in the face of increasing Amtrak ridership and crowded trains.
We got off on this tangent that Amtrak should be making public its consists and equipment utilization patterns, which as far as I am concerned is going beyond the original concern.
It is important for making the case for Amtrak funding from Congress. If a modest increase in Amtrak's appropriation could provide enough money to get those Amcoaches out on the road in a time of gas price-driven demand, this is something the public should know.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Approximately 18 months ago I asked Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) for emissions data for a paper that I was writing for a continuing education course. The objective of the paper was to test the assertion that public transport reduces significantly air pollution in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.
DART gave me the information that I requested, i.e. ridership numbers for each bus, light rail, and commuter rail line, in Excel spreadsheets. In addition, they shared with me information about the emissions generated by their vehicles, contracts for green energy, diesel fuel contracts, EPA compliance measures, etc. They even provided the information that they had gathered about the social composition of their riders.
Information regarding the vehicles, including availability, seating and standing capacity, age, cost, etc. was available on the DART Webpage. Subsequently, I ask DART management for a clarification of some of this information. They responded positively to every request.
Before one assumes that a public corporation or government agency will not provide appropriate information, he or she should ask for it. Doing so nicely can frequently produce a good outcome.
Public corporations and quasi governmental organizations are required by law to make their key financial data available to the public. They are not, however, required to make their operations data available, although many of them do so.
Information costs money. My employer, which was a large electric utility, employed hundreds of accountants to generate reams of financial and operation data. The salaries and overheads associated with these employees ran into the millions of dollars.
Because my employer was an investor owned electric utility, which subjected it to oversight by the Texas Public Utility Commission, we were required to provide more data to the public than was required of most businesses. In fact, we oftentimes were required to provide more data than state agencies.
If making the information available five days after the end of the month would have no impact on management's decisions, or it would be used by very few people, then the results would not justify the additional cost. And management would be correct in not incurring it to generate the information.
To be fair to Amtrak, they certainly disclose a wealth of information in their monthly performance reports (available on their website). It is a whole lot more than any private company in the transportation business would ever disclose.
Nevertheless, I agree that some form of a routine public accounting on the status of each of their cars would be useful, as well as the normal consist of each of their trains. With passenger traffic climbing, it would appear that cars are/will be the critical limiting resource for the system. Perhaps it is time to begin building a new generation of cars; but without the data on usage of the current fleet, it is impossible to say that with any certainty.
How it functions internally and where the cars are isn't really anything a normal non railfan would want to know.
Our local passenger rail advocacy group took a tour of our local transit agency's bus garage. The General Manager (i.e. the CEO) told us exactly how many buses they had and gave us a tour of the facility, showing us the buses they had down for maintenance and the bays they had for parking the buses in operation, explaining that they parked the whole fleet indoors overnight so they would last longer.
Haven't heard from DHS . . . yet.
There is information that Amtrak doesn't let out, and getting a 5th car on the Hiawatha was the doing of our Wisconsin DOT guy who looked over reports he got from Amtrak. In other words, a state government official, party to the payment of state money to Amtrak, had to do detective work to find out what Amtrak had. Amtrak may not be forthcoming with information, but the Wisconsin DOT is forthcoming with any and all information they have or are able to obtain, and their people have a cordial relationship with the advocacy community, support from whom and all other citizens they rely upon to maintain operation of the Hiawatha.
Again, I agree that there is information that even people with "a need to know" have to pry out of Amtrak. I disagree with the analogy regarding "need to know" about the "order of battle" of Air Force squadrons or Navy ships, but my guess is that information is publically available as part of the budget process -- when Reagan's Secretary of the Navy John Lehman lobbied for a "600 ship" Navy, the number of ships in the Navy was not a secret.
This business regarding whether a "rail fan" has a "need to know" regarding the disposition of cars on the Amtrak network. Amtrak may not tell you, they may not even know fully as evidenced by the Wisconsin DOT experience, but that doesn't make it right.
It is also one thing to say "tough luck getting that out of Amtrak", and it is another thing to suggest that Amtrak is justified in their approach to transparency out of some supposed national security justification. Some in the railfan/rail advocacy community tend to align themselves with "railroad thinking" regarding public disclosure, skepticism regarding innovation, and so on. I suppose a "railfan" has no "need to know" this information just as a railfan truly has no "need to photograph trains from Metra or NJT platforms", but the advocacy community along with every other citizen who is party to the funding of Amtrak through tax money has a need to know this. It is one thing if Amtrak is that way, but to have someone from the community trying to think up reasons to justify this is another matter.
I suppose Amtrak could provide a list of cars there but I doubt they would without a sufficient reason why you wanted to know. I don't recall any public carrier ever making such a list available.
Oh, I would say that a person doesn't have a sufficient reason to know the inner workings of a public carrier, unless, say, that carrier was the recipient of over one billion dollars in yearly Federal subsidy out of general revenue.
What kind of talk is this of having a sufficient reason to know? There are over 300 million people with sufficient reason to know anything and everything about Amtrak. If they want to keep business secrets, Amtrak can go out and raise their own money on equity markets and only have to answer to a smaller pool of shareholders.
passengerfan wrote: The major problem is a lack of equipment. All Amtrak California trains are operating at capacity as I write and a lack of equipment is turning passengers away. On some trains passengers are even standing. Amtrak has a large number of out of service cars at Beech Grove that need to be repaired and returned to service.
The major problem is a lack of equipment. All Amtrak California trains are operating at capacity as I write and a lack of equipment is turning passengers away. On some trains passengers are even standing. Amtrak has a large number of out of service cars at Beech Grove that need to be repaired and returned to service.
I agree with your thought that more equipment would be profitably utilized right now, and any time you turn a potential customer away you are risking long-term alienation.
Rosters of the Amtrak equipment in service are available. For example, On Track On Line has one by car number and type. You can review it on their web site -- it's under the tab "Amtrak Rosters".
However, I have never found a list of the Beach Grove cars awaiting repair. Others have said that some of thei Beach Grove cars are destined for the scrap yard and are there awaiting insurance payments and/or the finalizaton of lawsuits. I've taken a look at Beach Grove on Google Earth, and there did not appear to be any large number of cars there.
Does anyone know where I could find such a list?
al-in-chgo wrote: oltmannd wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: You still have the right to complain. I've held that Amtrak should have comment cards available on-train, just as stores, motels and restaurants have comment cards on-site. If that isn't the case, you can still complain, and if you have any Amtrak system timetable it will state speficially how and IIRC offer more communications options than just e-mail. Save your tickets and keep specifics handy. Remember the name of surly or ignorant on-train personnel. If s/he doesn't have a name badge on, make a note of what that person looks like before you get off the train. When you complain you'll have two complaints -- bad service and refusal for them to be responsible for their action by not I.D.'ing themselves as required. We often -- not without reason -- say that Amtrak is "politicized." Yes, but there is a silver lining in that cloud: write your federal Representative! Or Senator(s)! Or all! Staffers notice if an elected official's mail starts running to new themes. You won't be identified as "that Amtrak crank" unless you're really out of line. Talking to people who have run the mail-answering machines in a congressman's office, the letter of new topic gets noticed so your complaint may stick out, but in a good way. Consider as well that there are probably other people who have complained to your federal elected officials and that yours may be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of getting anything done.Don't forget your local paper, too. I am full of cliches today, but I hope you'll do some of the above. This is true esp. since you have experience of good and bad trips, and therefore will have a basis of what goes right to conrast with what goes wrong (bad or sold-out food, bad help, excruciating lateness.) Amtrak keeps statistics on train tardiness -- in fact, I believe they're required to. So many people today give up and say, "Never gonna happen." To which I answer, "You can't possibly predict the future." Besides, if you got it off your chest without exaggerating, you'll know you've done everything you can reasonably do. I share your low opinion of L-D Amtrak and along with the delays, the onboard attitude is VERY important. Think of the number of people who will condone a delay if the reason is given over the P.A. but get very antsy leaving to stew in their own juice. Cliche city, but I hope you'll identify. -- a.s. Any service organization that would rely on comment cards to "fix" bad quality is already broken.Amtrak's employees need incentive to provide first rate service right from the start."Incentive" should come in the form of a direct deposit that can be changed into many hundreds of green pieces of paper (or Presidential coins). At K-Mart two years ago I had read an open letter from their CEO to offended K-Mart shoppers. Clearly they had been listening to their criticism, because he named poor situations that were going to be addressed, such as the interminal waits at a service counter or employees lounging aroujnd and sitting on the floor. About two weeks later I came in with a Sunday color ad showing some stainless steel that looked good at a good price. I went to the houeswares section and saw some decent-enough sets of stainless but not what I wanted -- whether on sale or not. The help? Two youngish guys were SITTING ON THE FLOOR and neither would get up to help me. If it isn't there, it isn't there type attitude. I was referred to the service desk for a rain-check. Twelve people in line and only one booth staffed. I have never set foot in a K-Mart again and have no intention to (BTW, that store closed within six months). OTOH I used to work for Target and they were one of the most considerate employers I ever had. Nobody who works at the public-contact level in big retail is going to get rich, but we were given some pointers on how to be pleasant ("Got a good price on that Tide, looks like") and efficient. There was always something for a checker to do, even if it was just bring the facings (those impulse items on pegs at the cash-register area) foward, make it look neat, change the cash-register spool of paper pre-emptively. If our area was free, we were to stand at the entry to the checkout line and say, "Open over here!" and stuff like that, which when you think about it amouns to applied common sense. Here's the payoff: It was almost impossible to give surly service (sleepy service, sometimes, but if we tried our best that was okay). With just a litle bit of encouragement we were encouraged to find ways to relate to the customers ("guests") that made them feel better and us, too, because they let us find our own way to be nice. In a free-market economy Target has boomed and K-Mart dwindled. As for Amtrak, I don't believe there couldn't still be a shaking out. Again, let's look at the airline industry. Fewer planes carring higher-paying people on crowded flights call for the best flight attendants, not the most attitude-laden. It is, sadly, the case that in some respects Amtrak seems to have frozen some services in time about the time the Nat'l Rail Passenger Corp was founded: The Sunset Limited with its vending machines, but on the plus side the Empire Builder and Southwest Limited (or it "Chief" now?) giving above-average service. I won't claims it's better but somehow decisions are being made as to where the best employees are working, I'd say. I am not out to bust unions or privatize Amtrak as such. I do wonder, though, if the train services could be farmed out to some company like Marriot for the food prep and sleeping-car attendants, and possibly what we used to call "Trainmen" in general. Anyone with a full-time Amtrak job would be free to apply for the job in competition with anyone else. Since hospiality employment is a plus, it would be only fair to let the Amtrak'ers count some of that service in their background. It's the grandfathering-in and rigidity of seniority that bothers me. And yes, complaining does work. PM me and I'll tell how I got an extra coach put on the Panama Limited one Easter weekend, though that was many years ago. I know I sound like a Johnny one-note to me. But if Amtrak's budget increases by over forty percent, as seems to be happening, it won't matter much if new or expanded equipment is still tended to by rude or careless staff. Look then for a lot of start-up express bus companies running point-to-point on the Interstates, not thru every Hamlet. That's basically what happend in England when the trains got too grubby and too expensive. - a.s.
oltmannd wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: You still have the right to complain. I've held that Amtrak should have comment cards available on-train, just as stores, motels and restaurants have comment cards on-site. If that isn't the case, you can still complain, and if you have any Amtrak system timetable it will state speficially how and IIRC offer more communications options than just e-mail. Save your tickets and keep specifics handy. Remember the name of surly or ignorant on-train personnel. If s/he doesn't have a name badge on, make a note of what that person looks like before you get off the train. When you complain you'll have two complaints -- bad service and refusal for them to be responsible for their action by not I.D.'ing themselves as required. We often -- not without reason -- say that Amtrak is "politicized." Yes, but there is a silver lining in that cloud: write your federal Representative! Or Senator(s)! Or all! Staffers notice if an elected official's mail starts running to new themes. You won't be identified as "that Amtrak crank" unless you're really out of line. Talking to people who have run the mail-answering machines in a congressman's office, the letter of new topic gets noticed so your complaint may stick out, but in a good way. Consider as well that there are probably other people who have complained to your federal elected officials and that yours may be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of getting anything done.Don't forget your local paper, too. I am full of cliches today, but I hope you'll do some of the above. This is true esp. since you have experience of good and bad trips, and therefore will have a basis of what goes right to conrast with what goes wrong (bad or sold-out food, bad help, excruciating lateness.) Amtrak keeps statistics on train tardiness -- in fact, I believe they're required to. So many people today give up and say, "Never gonna happen." To which I answer, "You can't possibly predict the future." Besides, if you got it off your chest without exaggerating, you'll know you've done everything you can reasonably do. I share your low opinion of L-D Amtrak and along with the delays, the onboard attitude is VERY important. Think of the number of people who will condone a delay if the reason is given over the P.A. but get very antsy leaving to stew in their own juice. Cliche city, but I hope you'll identify. -- a.s. Any service organization that would rely on comment cards to "fix" bad quality is already broken.Amtrak's employees need incentive to provide first rate service right from the start.
al-in-chgo wrote: You still have the right to complain. I've held that Amtrak should have comment cards available on-train, just as stores, motels and restaurants have comment cards on-site. If that isn't the case, you can still complain, and if you have any Amtrak system timetable it will state speficially how and IIRC offer more communications options than just e-mail. Save your tickets and keep specifics handy. Remember the name of surly or ignorant on-train personnel. If s/he doesn't have a name badge on, make a note of what that person looks like before you get off the train. When you complain you'll have two complaints -- bad service and refusal for them to be responsible for their action by not I.D.'ing themselves as required. We often -- not without reason -- say that Amtrak is "politicized." Yes, but there is a silver lining in that cloud: write your federal Representative! Or Senator(s)! Or all! Staffers notice if an elected official's mail starts running to new themes. You won't be identified as "that Amtrak crank" unless you're really out of line. Talking to people who have run the mail-answering machines in a congressman's office, the letter of new topic gets noticed so your complaint may stick out, but in a good way. Consider as well that there are probably other people who have complained to your federal elected officials and that yours may be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of getting anything done.Don't forget your local paper, too. I am full of cliches today, but I hope you'll do some of the above. This is true esp. since you have experience of good and bad trips, and therefore will have a basis of what goes right to conrast with what goes wrong (bad or sold-out food, bad help, excruciating lateness.) Amtrak keeps statistics on train tardiness -- in fact, I believe they're required to. So many people today give up and say, "Never gonna happen." To which I answer, "You can't possibly predict the future." Besides, if you got it off your chest without exaggerating, you'll know you've done everything you can reasonably do. I share your low opinion of L-D Amtrak and along with the delays, the onboard attitude is VERY important. Think of the number of people who will condone a delay if the reason is given over the P.A. but get very antsy leaving to stew in their own juice. Cliche city, but I hope you'll identify. -- a.s.
You still have the right to complain. I've held that Amtrak should have comment cards available on-train, just as stores, motels and restaurants have comment cards on-site.
If that isn't the case, you can still complain, and if you have any Amtrak system timetable it will state speficially how and IIRC offer more communications options than just e-mail.
Save your tickets and keep specifics handy. Remember the name of surly or ignorant on-train personnel. If s/he doesn't have a name badge on, make a note of what that person looks like before you get off the train. When you complain you'll have two complaints -- bad service and refusal for them to be responsible for their action by not I.D.'ing themselves as required.
We often -- not without reason -- say that Amtrak is "politicized." Yes, but there is a silver lining in that cloud: write your federal Representative! Or Senator(s)! Or all! Staffers notice if an elected official's mail starts running to new themes. You won't be identified as "that Amtrak crank" unless you're really out of line. Talking to people who have run the mail-answering machines in a congressman's office, the letter of new topic gets noticed so your complaint may stick out, but in a good way. Consider as well that there are probably other people who have complained to your federal elected officials and that yours may be the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of getting anything done.
Don't forget your local paper, too.
I am full of cliches today, but I hope you'll do some of the above. This is true esp. since you have experience of good and bad trips, and therefore will have a basis of what goes right to conrast with what goes wrong (bad or sold-out food, bad help, excruciating lateness.) Amtrak keeps statistics on train tardiness -- in fact, I believe they're required to.
So many people today give up and say, "Never gonna happen." To which I answer, "You can't possibly predict the future." Besides, if you got it off your chest without exaggerating, you'll know you've done everything you can reasonably do. I share your low opinion of L-D Amtrak and along with the delays, the onboard attitude is VERY important. Think of the number of people who will condone a delay if the reason is given over the P.A. but get very antsy leaving to stew in their own juice. Cliche city, but I hope you'll identify. -- a.s.
Any service organization that would rely on comment cards to "fix" bad quality is already broken.
Amtrak's employees need incentive to provide first rate service right from the start.
"Incentive" should come in the form of a direct deposit that can be changed into many hundreds of green pieces of paper (or Presidential coins).
At K-Mart two years ago I had read an open letter from their CEO to offended K-Mart shoppers. Clearly they had been listening to their criticism, because he named poor situations that were going to be addressed, such as the interminal waits at a service counter or employees lounging aroujnd and sitting on the floor.
About two weeks later I came in with a Sunday color ad showing some stainless steel that looked good at a good price. I went to the houeswares section and saw some decent-enough sets of stainless but not what I wanted -- whether on sale or not. The help? Two youngish guys were SITTING ON THE FLOOR and neither would get up to help me. If it isn't there, it isn't there type attitude. I was referred to the service desk for a rain-check. Twelve people in line and only one booth staffed. I have never set foot in a K-Mart again and have no intention to (BTW, that store closed within six months).
OTOH I used to work for Target and they were one of the most considerate employers I ever had. Nobody who works at the public-contact level in big retail is going to get rich, but we were given some pointers on how to be pleasant ("Got a good price on that Tide, looks like") and efficient. There was always something for a checker to do, even if it was just bring the facings (those impulse items on pegs at the cash-register area) foward, make it look neat, change the cash-register spool of paper pre-emptively. If our area was free, we were to stand at the entry to the checkout line and say, "Open over here!" and stuff like that, which when you think about it amouns to applied common sense.
Here's the payoff: It was almost impossible to give surly service (sleepy service, sometimes, but if we tried our best that was okay). With just a litle bit of encouragement we were encouraged to find ways to relate to the customers ("guests") that made them feel better and us, too, because they let us find our own way to be nice.
In a free-market economy Target has boomed and K-Mart dwindled.
As for Amtrak, I don't believe there couldn't still be a shaking out. Again, let's look at the airline industry. Fewer planes carring higher-paying people on crowded flights call for the best flight attendants, not the most attitude-laden.
It is, sadly, the case that in some respects Amtrak seems to have frozen some services in time about the time the Nat'l Rail Passenger Corp was founded: The Sunset Limited with its vending machines, but on the plus side the Empire Builder and Southwest Limited (or it "Chief" now?) giving above-average service. I won't claims it's better but somehow decisions are being made as to where the best employees are working, I'd say.
I am not out to bust unions or privatize Amtrak as such. I do wonder, though, if the train services could be farmed out to some company like Marriot for the food prep and sleeping-car attendants, and possibly what we used to call "Trainmen" in general. Anyone with a full-time Amtrak job would be free to apply for the job in competition with anyone else. Since hospiality employment is a plus, it would be only fair to let the Amtrak'ers count some of that service in their background. It's the grandfathering-in and rigidity of seniority that bothers me. And yes, complaining does work. PM me and I'll tell how I got an extra coach put on the Panama Limited one Easter weekend, though that was many years ago.
I know I sound like a Johnny one-note to me. But if Amtrak's budget increases by over forty percent, as seems to be happening, it won't matter much if new or expanded equipment is still tended to by rude or careless staff. Look then for a lot of start-up express bus companies running point-to-point on the Interstates, not thru every Hamlet. That's basically what happend in England when the trains got too grubby and too expensive. - a.s.
Bingo! Now, why don't we here some of this kind of stuff from NARP, etc?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Al in Chicago, what we ought to do is insist Congress get rid of Alex K and put you in the job. For serious, you might have to take a brief strike before everyone realized it was really happening, but Amtrak would come out of that quickly and with attitudes adjusted, not only the employees but also the current management.
Oh, well, I can dream, can't I?
KCSfan wrote: oltmannd wrote: Mark-You have hit the nail on the head. The real question is why is Amtrak travel like that? Why is the service quality so variable? Some if it, like on time performance, is partially out of Amtrak's control, but so much of it is within Amtrak's control.If you want a reputation for quality, you have to do it right EVERY TIME! Not just when you're having a "good day."Just one example: When I fly, even for one hour, I get to pick my seat. When I ride Amtrak's Crescent, I have to sit whereever the attendant decides to put me. If I book early, shouldn't I get to pick a better seat? I'd much prefer a mid-car window seat to windowless aisle seat at the car's end. All the seats are numbered, so why not? Heck, I'd even pay a few bucks for the priveledge.While you didn't mention it, I'd be willing to bet that the station in Atlanta is nothing but an Amshack in a seedy part of the city. What a contrast to Atlanta's Hartsfield airport, the busiest in the nation. Mark
oltmannd wrote: Mark-You have hit the nail on the head. The real question is why is Amtrak travel like that? Why is the service quality so variable? Some if it, like on time performance, is partially out of Amtrak's control, but so much of it is within Amtrak's control.If you want a reputation for quality, you have to do it right EVERY TIME! Not just when you're having a "good day."Just one example: When I fly, even for one hour, I get to pick my seat. When I ride Amtrak's Crescent, I have to sit whereever the attendant decides to put me. If I book early, shouldn't I get to pick a better seat? I'd much prefer a mid-car window seat to windowless aisle seat at the car's end. All the seats are numbered, so why not? Heck, I'd even pay a few bucks for the priveledge.
Mark-
You have hit the nail on the head. The real question is why is Amtrak travel like that? Why is the service quality so variable? Some if it, like on time performance, is partially out of Amtrak's control, but so much of it is within Amtrak's control.
If you want a reputation for quality, you have to do it right EVERY TIME! Not just when you're having a "good day."
Just one example: When I fly, even for one hour, I get to pick my seat. When I ride Amtrak's Crescent, I have to sit whereever the attendant decides to put me. If I book early, shouldn't I get to pick a better seat? I'd much prefer a mid-car window seat to windowless aisle seat at the car's end. All the seats are numbered, so why not? Heck, I'd even pay a few bucks for the priveledge.
While you didn't mention it, I'd be willing to bet that the station in Atlanta is nothing but an Amshack in a seedy part of the city. What a contrast to Atlanta's Hartsfield airport, the busiest in the nation.
Mark
Actually, no. The station decent and in a good part of town. There is no real parking there, though, and it's not convenient to MARTA rail or any of the suburban bus services.
But. there are no suburban Amtrak stops despite the route running straight thru the heavily populated northern suburbs. Next stop northbound it Gainesville - about 60 miles north, which is a very seedy station, in a seedy part of town, manned by a sloppy, not very professional station attendent. But, it is easier to use than the Atlanta-Brookwood station.
passengerfan wrote: ndbprr wrote:I get roughly 1600 miles from Dallas to New York City. Cost of the train fare was $732.00 one way or $1464 roundtrip. The math works out the same if figured one way or roundtrip. $732/$4.25 per gallon = 172 gallons of gas. 1600 miles / 172 gallons = 9.3 miles per gallon required to break even. It was still probably cheaper to drive. Any better mileage than that and she would have come out aheadWheres the cost of insurance, depreciation, license, and wear and tear.Al - in - Stockton
ndbprr wrote:I get roughly 1600 miles from Dallas to New York City. Cost of the train fare was $732.00 one way or $1464 roundtrip. The math works out the same if figured one way or roundtrip. $732/$4.25 per gallon = 172 gallons of gas. 1600 miles / 172 gallons = 9.3 miles per gallon required to break even. It was still probably cheaper to drive. Any better mileage than that and she would have come out ahead
Wheres the cost of insurance, depreciation, license, and wear and tear.
Al - in - Stockton
I think the current IRS allowance for business use of a personal vehicle, which supposedly covers out of pocket costs as well as all the other items that Al mentions, is $0.48/mile. 1600 x $0.48 = $768, just slightly higher than the Amtrak coach fare. In any event driving wasn't an option for her since the family owns only one car and her husband, who didn't make the trip, needed it to get to and from work. For similar reasons and a host of others there are a lot of people who don't have the option of driving and are dependent on public transportaion.
I failed to mention that I got the Amtrak fares from their website. I noticed an anamoly in the sleeper fares which is a mystery to me. A family bedroom (which sleeps 3 persons) on the Eagle is $352 + the $366 coach fare. Apparently family BR's aren't available on the Lake Shore as they only show bedrooms (which sleep 2) and the fare is $712 + the $366 coach fare. Perhaps someone will enlighten me as to why the sleeper charge on the LS (for a lesser accommodation at that) is more than double that on the TE.
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