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HOW MANY?

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Posted by bajadog on Monday, January 7, 2008 2:12 PM
  • Another thought.  After WWII the governments of Europe owned both the railways and the airlines, thereby limiting competition and encouraging cooperation.  Here, regional airlines routinely lobby agains and block rail alternatives.  How many flights do you suppose Southwest flies between DFW and Houston/San Antonio each day?
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Posted by bajadog on Monday, January 7, 2008 2:10 PM
Another thought.  After WWII the governments of Europe owned both the railways an the airlines, thereby limiting competition and encouraging cooperation.  Here, regional airlines routinely lobby agains and block rail alternatives.  How many flights do you suppose Southwest flies between DFW and Houston/San Antonia each day?
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 16, 2007 6:17 PM

Just bring in the HST straight to the airports.

If Kennedy or BWI or similar ground to a halt because of filthy weather, the people will continue to "Fly" by HST Direct from airport ternimal to airport ternimal. In fact they may like it sooo much that more people will drive to the airport, park and HST it. In time they might say.. whoops time for me to hiss instead of time for me to jet.

Im taking another look at the Moller Skycars while I wait for HST... those things are potentially VERY useful bypassing that choked highway I fought today.

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Posted by oltmannd on Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:17 PM
 Prairietype wrote:

Where do these other countries (many of them considered to be "lesser" compared to the USA manage to scrape together the money for these billion dollar developments? And the United States can't do this because some influential voice constantly sells the idea that we can't afford it, that no one will ride it, that it can't be justified in the current "fill in the blank" climate. Maybe 43 years from .....

Most of the "lesser" countries have it because they never invested in much of a highway network, so the population lives in cities, not suburbs.  Because of the population living there, the cities have transit to support intercity train travel.  Because they can connect to the existing rail network for travel outside their country, which leverages their investment.  And, because they have chosen to place a high tax on gasoline.  You can argue which is the "chicken" and which is the "egg", I suppose.....

The NEC works well because the Northeast has less roads, more transit and big population centers.  If you build a ground up, HS line in the US, say Atlanta to Chattanooga, as is now being actively studied, where would the riders come from and where would they go to?  The major reason it's even being studied is becaus there is no more room for more runways at the airport, I-75 is pretty close to full, and a second airport or additional highway could be much more costly than the HS rail line.  So, if it's going to happen in the US, it's for a whole differents set of reasons than elsewhere in the world.

I live in metro Atlanta, but a Hartsfield Jackson to Chatt rail line would do me almost no good.  Just to get to the rail line, would be about half the trip to Chatt, and the worst part of the driving would be over - might as well just finish the trip in my car.  The 4.5 million in metrol ATL are so sprawled out that you can't build a single rail line that would provide meaningful service for all of them.  If ATL never had the interstates built, it might be more densely settled and a better fit for intercity rail.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 16, 2007 9:57 AM

These Nations or States have the ability to make things happen and right away.

The United States needs Studies, EPA impact studies, committiees, local input (NOT IN MY BACK YARD!!) and years of wasted effort.

It is my understanding we slammed a road through to Alaska in 6 months to a years time in world war two. Now a mile of free way is years in the process before the first survey peg is installed.

Sweep the bloat away, find the money, get the property and make it happen. Putting boots on the ground as they say.

Nah, they rather go back to thier currently scheduled committee meeting.

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Posted by Prairietype on Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:17 AM

Where do these other countries (many of them considered to be "lesser" compared to the USA manage to scrape together the money for these billion dollar developments? And the United States can't do this because some influential voice constantly sells the idea that we can't afford it, that no one will ride it, that it can't be justified in the current "fill in the blank" climate. Maybe 43 years from .....

 

 

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:13 AM

Samantha, that was a great accounting of Australian passenger trains.  Thank you!   - a. s.

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:08 AM

I lived in Australia from 1999 to 2004.  It has some really neat trains, but they are not high speed trains.

The quickest train runs daily from Brisbane, Queensland, to Rockhampton, Queensland.  Three days a week it goes to Cairns.  Its maximum speed is 160 kilometers or 100 miles per hour, although there are only a few short stretches where it achieves these speeds.  The train is called the Tilt Train because it incorporates tilt train technology. 

The train to Cairns leaves Brisbane at 6:25 p.m. and gets to Cairns at 7:20 p.m.  The times are somewhat different when the train is only going as far as Rockhampton.  Interestingly, the QR is a narrow gauge railway, albeit a first class property.

The Tilt Train has business class and coach class carriages.  I rode it twice from Brisbane to Townsville.  It is very comfortable.   Meals are served at the passenger's seat, thereby eliminating the cost associated with restaurant cars.  Even though it is an overnight train three days a week, it does not have any sleeping or lounge cars.  Passengers have a variety of entertainment options.  They can even switch to a camera mounted in the nose of the locomotive and watch the track roll by.

Another interesting QR train is The Outback.  It runs from Brisbane to Long Reach, which amongst other things is the home of the Qantas Airline's Museum.  Qantas, which is one of the oldest, continuous airlines in the world, got its start in 1926 in Longreach.  All of Qantas' 747-400s are named Longreach.  Initially I thought it was because of the long reach, i.e. non-stop capabilities of the airplane, but it turned out that they are named for Longreach, Queensland.  A trip to Longreach on The Outback is a great way to see the Australian Outback. 

The train that runs across Australia, at least from east to west, is the Indian Pacific.  I took it from Sydney to Perth.  It is a three day journey on conventional equipment.  The cars are 1950s vintage that were built in Australia under a license granted by Budd.  The trip includes the longest stretch of straight track in the world - 298.5 miles.  The train runs through the Blue Mountains, which are awesome, and across The Nullarbor Desert.  At Broken Hill, which is the home of the Flying Doctors, Adelaide, and Kalgoorlie, where a large open pit gold mine is located, passengers can de-train and take a bus tour of these locations.  They are a very worthwhile interlude.

The other two trains that I have ridden are the Overland between Adelaide and Melbourne and the City Link between Melbourne and Sydney.  The Overland is equipped with cars similar to those found on the Indian Pacific, but the City Link is a bullet style train that bears a sharp resemblance to the Acela and Tilt Train.  

I go back to Australia every 15 months or thereabout, and I include at least one cross country train trip while I am there.  This year I am going in February.  I plan to fly to Adelaide.  Then I will take the Overland to Melbourne, where I lived, and then the City Link to Sydney.  The only premier Australian train that I have not ridden is the Ghan, which runs from Adelaide to Darwin.

 

 

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Posted by Railway Man on Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:39 PM

Also:

Belgium, Portugal, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Czech, Russia, South Korea, Turkey (almost commissioned), Austria (2008)

Taiwan is in service; we just hired some of the expats who worked on it.

RWM

 

 

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Posted by oltmannd on Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:14 PM

Let's start counting:

USA  (That's all for the western hemisphere!)

England

France

Germany

Netherlands

Japan

Taiwan (I think)

China (Shanghai Maglev)

Italy

Spain

(how about Austria, Denmark, Switzerland?  I don't know...)

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:25 PM
 al-in-chgo wrote:

 

Just wondering, but:  how many nations have HST's operating that are faster than our Accela?  

For the sake of comprehensiveness, let's also count countries that have such HST's running but are of a different country's design or manufacture. 

There are many interpretations for what HST-type speed is, but let's go with a common one:  a train is an HST if it can and does maintain (not all, but) sustained running at 125 mph (200/kph) or more.  Notice that Accela meets that definition.  -  a. s.

 

125? That's not true HST.

Let's say the USA is rather backward and lagging with HST technology. Yes they rattle a acela down tracks at 125-150.. but that is about all that set of tracks can do.

True high speed has been done by the Japanese and Europeans for decades. Such trains are totally isolated from grade crossings etc. And BOY do they fly. In fact Ive heard that some French trains managed to kill regional airlines by beating thier own schedules.

I think the Australians have or had Luxury trains that goes from one coast to the other.. not too fast but has everything a passenger could want for the hours and days spent on that train.

I recall a experiment where they mounted a set of jets on a railroad something with wheels and broke 175 mph but it wont happen in revenue.

I have heard of some maglev experiments in popular magazines where they have the ability to generate the high speeds above and way beyond piddling 150. Heck, Ive been at 140+ a few times in a very powerful car. But that I save just for me and write it off to youth gone by.

Typing in Maglev in google for the USA turns up projects numbering about 10-30 around the USA where there are efforts or baby steps being made towards true HST in the USA.

We have the land, money and the room to make it happen but until someone actually gets out of the research lab and builds a working HST I'll stick with a Southwest 737.

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HOW MANY?
Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, December 15, 2007 7:33 PM

 

Just wondering, but:  how many nations have HST's operating that are faster than our Accela?  

For the sake of comprehensiveness, let's also count countries that have such HST's running but are of a different country's design or manufacture. 

There are many interpretations for what HST-type speed is, but let's go with a common one:  a train is an HST if it can and does maintain (not all, but) sustained running at 125 mph (200/kph) or more.  Notice that Accela meets that definition.  -  a. s.

 

al-in-chgo

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