Harold Cox Birney Book

[daveklepper]

The gears and motors are between the wheels.  If one is not really sloppy, especially with the exterior journal boxes, there is no reason for grease and oil to penetrate the leaf springs.  I do speak from experience as a youngster with Third Avenue Transit and their universal use of Brill-design-and-parts (lightweights) and Brill-manufactured (convertibles and about half the second-hand cars) trucks.   Later, Third Avenue Lightweight 629 and Connecticut 2350 Birney at Branford. 

They and we did not oil or grease the leaf-springs deliberately, to the best of my memory.

[Overmod]

Note that my 'into the toilet' comment strictly applies only to pitch and yaw compliance, not vertical riding.  Any properly-designed car should 'ride' better when loaded (provided it isn't physically 'bottoming out' on the springs) just as trucks or some buses do.

The issue with leaf springs is that their 'damping' is mostly friction, and if you grease or oil the leaves to reduce wear and noise, physical damping especially for larger moments can become very slight compared to oscillation, often resonant...

[daveklepper]

Russ's reply, his capitalization bid difficult to remove:

uss evidently does not comprehend the amount of work that had to be done by Alan Wickens, Waggon Union, and others to get four-wheel rail vehicles to ride stably at higher speeds.  See the general subject of "Pacers" for a quite reasonable counterexample.

 

AS FOR RAILROAD 4-WHEELERS, THAT IS OF COURSE TRUE.  RODE THE ENGLISH ONE ON THE PAOLI LINE DOWNHILL AT 70 MPH.  WELL-DESIGNED SUSPENSION.

Birneys are laughably lacking in anything like damping, and most have an almost ridiculous longitudinal polar moment of inertia.  It should not surprise anyone, with or without formal engineering training, that they ride and often guide poorly.

 

ALL (IT THINK) STREET/INTERURBAN CARS  PRIOR TO PCCS USED LEAF SPRINGS AS A DAMPING METHOD.  A PRIME EXAMPLE IS THE FLEET OF PITTSBURGH "LOW FLOOR" CARS WHICH HAD FLEXIBLE TRUCK FRAMES TO ACHIEVE EQUALIZATION AND HAD ONLY A LEAF SPRING BOLSTER ARRANGEMENT. THE PCC B-3 TRUCK IS FUNCTIONALLY THE SAME, BUT BY USING COIL SPRINGS HAD TO HAVE HYDRAULIC OR FRICTION DAMPERS.   THE B-2 TRUCK WAS DESIGNED TO HAVE DAMPERS AT EACH AXLE.  THE BROOKLYN CARS HAD DAMPERS AS RECEIVED.   YOU MAY RECALL THAT BOSTON AND TRC CAME UP WITH A FRICTION DAMPER FOR APPLICATION TO B-2 TRUCKS. 

Street railways, as far as I know, have never been known for maintaining precise track geometry, or for that matter rail condition.
A Birney encountering rail corrugation, for example, is not going to demonstrate serene Citroen-like compliance.

 

NOT SO FOR PAVED TRACK.  STREET RAILWAY PAVED TRACK IS A VERY PRECISE CONSTRUCTION, WITH GAUGE PLAY TYPICALLY ABOUT 1/4 INCH.  RAILROAD PEOPLE WHO GET INVOLVED WITH STREETCAR TRACK USUALLY SCREW THINGS UP.  SIGNIFICANT VERTICAL MISALIGNMENT FOR PAVED TRACK TYPICALLY ONLY OCCURS WHEN THERE IS A BROKEN JOINT.  OPEN TRACK IS SUSCEPTIBLE TO ALL THE VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL MISALIGNMENTS AS OCCUR ON RAILROADS.   RUNNING A BIRNEY - OR MOST ANY 4-WHEEL PRE-PCC STREETCAR - ON POORLY MAINTAINED OR LIFE-EXPIRED TRACK IS NOT GOING TO PROVIDE A GREAT RIDE. 

 

DOUBLE-TRUCKED CARS WITH A SWING-LINK BOLSTER ALWAYS HAD A PROBLEM IN THAT THERE WAS INSUFFICIENT DAMPING OF LATERAL MOTION.  PCC TRUCKS HAD PROVISIONS FOR APPLYING LATERAL DAMPERS. 

 

TRUCK SUSPENSIONS SHOULD BE SUCH AS TO NOT COUPLE TRUCK PITCH OR SIDE TO SIDE CHANGES IN ELEVATION TO THE CAR BODY.  AIR SPRINGS CAN DO THIS WELL, USING. LEVELING VALVES TO DEAL WITH STATIC CONDITIONS.

Actually load them to capacity for revenue, and the situation rapidly goes farther into the toilet.  NOT WORTHY OF COMMENT.  (DLK:   My oWn expErience wiTh Co9nnecticut 2350 at Shore Line Trollet Museum (Branford) is that riding, never bad on the well-maintaiuned trasck, actually improves with loading..

I'll pass on your reply to him...

 

[Overmod]

Russ evidently does not comprehend the amount of work that had to be done by Alan Wickens, Waggon Union, and others to get four-wheel rail vehicles to ride stably at higher speeds.  See the general subject of "Pacers" for a quite reasonable counterexample.

Birneys are laughably lacking in anything like damping, and most have an almost ridiculous longitudinal polar moment of inertia.  It should not surprise anyone, with or without formal engineering training, that they ride and often guide poorly.

Street railways, as far as I know, have never been known for maintaining precise track geometry, or for that matter rail condition.  A Birney encountering rail corrugation, for example, is not going to demonstrate serene Citroen-like compliance.

Actually load them to capacity for revenue, and the situation rapidly goes farther into the toilet...

[Gramp]

Please be careful, Dave. Praying for your safety. 

[daveklepper]

Comment from Russ Johnson:

Thanks, Dave.  I have the book, of course.  Three of us had a charter in Bendigo some years back.  First car we used was a green Birney, as it to some degree looked like a Philly car.  On a less pleasant note, both of the chaps with me that day are now deceased.

 

 Birneys only ride poorly on poor track.  As you may know, the Europeans run 4-wheel cars at high speeds by Birney standards.  I have 8mm of three car trains of 4-wheel cars running in peak hours at 30 or more MPH on the interurban line from Dusseldorf to Krefeld.  With their track standards, you don't have to have a lot of suspension to ride well enough. 

 

I remember a chap from Rockwell telling me that the BART track was of such good construction that their truck met the specified ride quality with the air springs down.  (Being a flexible -frame truck, equalization didn't require springs at the axles.)   It's likely that properties that bought Birneys had some track that was in pretty poor shape and those are the lines they ran them on.  The bouncing Birney chatter likely came from the articles of the media and the fan media isn't all that better.

 

Russ J.

 

 

[daveklepper]

Need  an expkaitionh for that.

But hereis Third Avene's last Birneym converted to rai8l-grinder and slot-coleaner:

[Overmod]

If you are reviving low-floor Birneys you can get a LOT closer to true low-walkover at the ends by re-adopting the Lindall articulation scheme...

https://villamosok.hu/nza/beng-kulf/boston4200.jpg

[daveklepper]

 

Sggested Birney Revival with low-floor characterstics

[daveklepper]

More Birney pictures:

 

 

 

[daveklepper]

When the H streetcar line, than ran from the New Haven's Harlem Shuttle's station on the NYNH&H line to Oak Point Yard and the H. G. Bridge, west to the line to GCT, was repaced by bus in 1937(?), it was a special occasion, since it ran by Fontain Fox's home, and he was the cartoonist of the Tunerville Trolley comic strip.  Regular double-truck convertables had been the regular equipment for many years.  But the Third Avenue people borrowed one of the Birney's leased to Stienway to take part in the final run, with Mr. Fox, since its diminutive size made it a stand-in for the comic strip's car.

At the time there were interconnecting tracks for the move each way, but the car had to be towed while on conduit-only tracks beetween 59th and 129th Streets on 3rd Avenue.

 

 

[daveklepper]

And it seems as if the rest of the thread has now been removed?

[daveklepper]

This was supposed to be on the General Forum on the Billy Graham thread.  How it came to migrate to this threade is a very good question.  What was supposed to be here is an invitation to anyone who wants the pdf versioni of the Cox Birney book that I preapred with the pages on this thread, just email me at [e-mail], and the pdf will be sent as an attachment to the return.  Of course no charge.  I am sure this is what Harold Cox wanted, because he made all pages available for free on the internet.

[daveklepper]

Charlie Hebo:  WAs simiply trying to prove how train travel made possible better service for my clients because of the ability to carry sensitive equipment with me instead of having to check it (or buy a second seat for the equipment?).

[daveklepper]

Anyone wishing to have a pdf of the complete book can email me at

[e-mail]

 

And I will attach the pdf to my reply.  Of course no charge.

I will be fulfilling Harod Cox's wishes in doing this.

[daveklepper]

The last passenger operatoin of Birneys in New York City, which at one time did have them providing sevice on lighter lines in Brooklyn and The Bronx, was on Steinway Lines in Queens,  Birneys leased from Third Avenue Railways were used, painted in TARS cram-yellow and red, but labeled Steinway Lines.

[daveklepper]

Great.  Thanks for posting

[DSchmitt]

From Wikipedia  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Smith_Trolley_Museum

 

 

 

From their Facebook page  https://www.facebook.com/FortSmithTrolleyMuseum/

 

[daveklepper]

A Fort Smith, AK, Birney can be viewed at the website of the Fort Smith Trolley Musuem.  When I try to post the picture, it dissapears.

[daveklepper]

Particularly greatful for the picture of 102.  This may have originally been built for left-hand operation and remodeled for right-hand.

[Miningman]

Do not know anything specific about Levis car #83 but here is the 3 picture set from the "collection"

Levis County Railway 

Levis, Quebec 

Levis Tramways 49. Sprague Library/Joseph Testagrose Collection 

Little boy looking at car 83 and another car at CNR station. 8/1944 Sprague Library/Joseph Testagrose Collection 

Car 102 on Haute Ville. 5/26/1946 Anthony Clegg/Joseph Testagrose Collection

 

[daveklepper]

I have some doubts that car 83 was in revenue passenger-carrying service in Levis in August 1944.  The date may be the date the photo was printed, or 83 had special duties.

But thanks for the photo, and it is interesting to see what Birneys may have replaced.  Even though Levis converted to bus in 1947, it had bought three Birneys from Montreal in 1945!

[Miningman]

Levis County Tramway.......Quebec.   Levis is across the St. Lawrence from Quebec City

A Little boy looking at car 83 and another car at CNR station. 8/1944 Sprague Library/Joseph Testagrose Collection

[daveklepper]

Again, I urge others to post Birney pictures.

[daveklepper]

The Bezek server is giving me problems in trying to edit the previous post.  Because of a specific health problem, I have not been able to take my laptop to the University yesterday or today.  When I can do so, possibly tomorrow, Tuesday, I will edit the previous post, and any other posting of mine that requires editing, post the picture of the San Antonia Birney, and probably some other pix as well.

Am able to edit today, found the pix had been posted but just did not show up with the narrow-band server.  And here is a still improved photo of the Halifax Birney, with a comment to follow:

From Wikapedia:  Historically, the Halifax Peninsula had an extensive streetcar transit system dating to the late 1800s. Operated by various private companies including the "Halifax Street Railway Co.", the "Nova Scotia Power Co." (not the same company as the present electric utility), the "Halifax Electric Tramway Co.", the "Nova Scotia Tramways and Power Co.", and the " Nova Scotia Light and Power Company, Limited", the streetcar system was abandoned by NSL&P on March 26, 1949. Streetcars were replaced by an electric trolley coach system, however, the last electric trolley coaches were replaced by conventional diesel buses on January 1, 1970 operated by the Halifax Transit Corporation.  Halifax became an all-Birney operation.  See page 92.

[daveklepper]

In an historical recap, SAN ANTONIO Express News recalls the 55-year run of the south Texas city's steetcars, abandoned in 1933 in favor of an all-bus system. At the time, it was the largest U.S. city to completely give up urban rail transit. The most modern steel cars were shipped by ocean freighter to New York City to operate on the Third Avenue Railway System [TARS]:  (But the pix is a Birney, not sold to TARS)

<https://tinyurl.com/yaajzo3b>

<https://tinyurl.com/yabqlvxc>

And the news feature:

<https://tinyurl.com/yccxczdc

San Antonio's 55-year streetcar ride, by David Hendricks, 2 Sepember '71

Within the history of streetcars across the United States, San Antonio was a latecomer. The city also was the first of U.S. large cities to abandon streetcars.

Yet, streetcars — what they were called in the South instead of trolleys, as they were known in the North — had a 55-year run in San Antonio as the city’s main public transportation system, reaching a peak of 90 miles of routes. Streetcars operated in San Antonio from 1878 to 1933, reshaping the city’s commercial, residential and social lives along the way.

Houston, Galveston, Austin and even Seguin and Uvalde were served by streetcars before San Antonio, even if they were drawn by mules. San Antonio followed because the railroads arrived late, in 1877, just one year before streetcars.

The railroads were requisite because rail delivered the streetcar vehicles and the metal tracks necessary for the systems, explained Hugh Hemphill, Texas Transportation Museum director and author of “San Antonio on Wheels.”

Once the railroads delivered the equipment and materials, San Antonio pounced on the opportunity to establish its initial streetcar line among the buggies and carriages in use. The first line opened on June 9, 1878, but did not connect downtown to an outlying residential area or train station. It stretched from Alamo Plaza to San Pedro Park.

The reason: to give San Antonians a breath of fresh air.

“Downtown San Antonio was nasty. Commerce Street was vile. To describe downtown as unhealthy would be an understatement. The worse place in San Antonio was Main Plaza in front of San Fernando Cathedral. The square had trees, so people put animals there to eat, poop and pee. The place reeked to high heaven. There was a lot of disease and flies. The stench would stun an ox,” Hemphill said.

The first streetcar route still took an hour to take about 20 people each way in a car pulled on rails by mules. The route was built and operated by the San Antonio Street Railway Co., led by Augustus Belknap.

Streetcars changed downtown immediately. Commerce Street dominated downtown commercially before 1878, but the merchants declined to widen the narrow street to make way for streetcars because of the existing congestion. But two blocks north of Commerce Street was Paseo del Rio Street that ran between houses and agricultural fields. Paseo del Rio Street was widened to accommodate streetcars and rechristened as Houston Street.

“Every streetcar line began and ended at Houston Street. Commerce Street lost its pre-eminent position. All the best shopping moved to Houston Street. There were far fewer horses and mules on Houston Street and not as much smell,” Hemphill said.

A second streetcar line opened to ferry passengers between downtown hotels and a no-longer-existing train station on Jones Street, called the Galveston, Harrisburg & San Antonio rail depot, near the Hays Street Bridge. A third streetcar line opened for the same reason to the Missouri Pacific station where Houston Street ends at Medina Street on the near West Side.

The owners of the Hot Wells Hotel and Spa on the South Side built a streetcar line to transport intercity train passengers between the resort and the downtown stations, Hemphill said.

In 1889, the wealthy residents were moving north of downtown to a tax-haven suburb called Alamo Heights, a shift facilitated by streetcars. A new route was created by the San Antonio Rapid Transit Co. that year to bring the domestic staffs — the maids, cooks and gardeners — to the big houses there and, just as importantly to Alamo Heights residents, to take them away at the end of the day.

“The wealthy did not want those people living there. They had to get out. If blacks were found at night there, they might be lynched,” Hemphill observed.

House builders started looking elsewhere eventually. After Alamo Heights, all of the hilly and leafy land surrounding downtown was developed, so house builders looked to the flat land west of downtown. They built a dam and dug a hole for what was called West End Lake, now known as Woodlawn Lake, as a feature to attract new housing. A streetcar route called the West End Streetcar Co. in 1887 helped, too.

As the streetcar tracks reached out in all directions from downtown, land values increased dramatically. “Streetcars turned scrub land into real estate. They created desireable land where people wanted to live,” Hemphill said. Lots alongside streetcar routes selling for $5 an acre suddenly could demand $100 or more.

A big change occurred in 1890 in San Antonio. The streetcars became electrified by connecting to overhead power lines, giving the tired mules a rest. Electric streetcars had begun in 1888 in Richmond, Virginia. The electric streetcars were faster, could climb steeper hills, add seating and provide more comfort to the passengers with protection from extreme temperatures and dust.

But streetcar operations were not profitable. Fares were capped at 5 cents by charters with the city of San Antonio that also stipulated discounts for students and free rides for police and fire fighters. Operating costs were rising as streets were widened, meaning the streetcar companies had to pay to shift the tracks to stay in the middle of the streets. The city also was receiving some of the fare revenues to maintain streets with tracks.

Four streetcar companies consolidated, therefore, into the San Antonio Traction Co. in March 1899. Competition emerged after the turn of the century as automobiles called jitneys offered rides to people waiting along streetcar routes.

Lawsuits arose, and two involving San Antonio’s streetcars went to the U.S. Supreme Court. When a state law required student fare discounts, the San Antonio Traction Co. filed a lawsuit, arguing its city charter allowed full 5-cent fares. The San Antonio Traction Co. lost its case over local control.

In 1917, the San Antonio Traction Co. was merged with the San Antonio Gas and Electric Co. and renamed the San Antonio Public Service Co., or SAPSCO, Hemphill explained. A lawsuit filed by SAPSCO to raise fares ended with a U.S. Supreme Court decision that allowed SAPSCO to raise its fare to 7 cents, but the city could still reduce the fare to 5 cents under certain circumstances.

Nevertheless, the seeds of the streetcars’ demise were sprouting. In addition to more people being able to afford automobiles, downtown stores moved north to be closer to customers, reducing ridership. Buses, with rubber wheels that did not need tracks and could offer faster, more flexible transportation, cut into the streetcar business.

The Great Depression also was a factor, with fewer people working. “In 1932, some people couldn’t even afford the 1-cent fare (charged for short inner-city rides). They walked or rode bicycles. San Antonio was on the decline,” Hemphill said.

City Hall eventually found itself facing default on bonds as retailers left downtown, eroding property values. In 1933, SAPSCO offered to pay the city $250,000 to stop offering streetcar service ahead of its 1940 contract. Needing the money, the city took the deal, Hemphill said.

“San Antonio was the first major city in America to abandon the streetcars,” Hemphill said.

The last run of a streetcar in 1933 was ceremoniously staged with mules pulling the car as a throwback to the early days. The tracks then were removed or paved over. Many of the streetcars were scrapped with some sold to buyers in New York.

Streetcars still have their enthusiasts. One is San Antonio clinical psychologist Dr. John Worsham, a former Trinity University faculty member, who as a boy frequently rode streetcars in Waco during World War II.

“Streetcars were supported by developers because it made it possible to get around, so cities could expand and extend out further. It turns a village into a city. This is something we need to understand in San Antonio, which is what it is like to not have a car and to move about without crowding,” Worsham said.

At 55 years of age, San Antonio’s streetcar era expired. One echo of its existence is VIA Metropolitan Transit’s rubber-wheeled, streetcar-replica trolleys that started in 1983 with downtown area circular routes. The VIA trolleys remain popular today.

[e-mail]

Edward B. Havens

Tucson, Ariz. 

__._,_.___

[Firelock76]

Nice job David!  I'm sure that grey pavement is closer to the mark than the red in the original photo.

[daveklepper]

[quote user="Firelock76"]

David, somehow I doubt in that Halifax shot the pavement is that reddish color.  What we're seeing could be due to color shift in an old slide depending on the quality of the film used.  It looks like red clay or even brick dust which I doubt Halifax used for paving material,  those Halifax winters would have destroyed it in no time at all. 

[/quote above]

 

Since I had worked on the photo to bring it to the point where I posted it, I decided to work on it some more.   Is this worthwhile?

 

 

And just to keep the record straight for purists, here is the photo as found on Wiikapedia:

 

[Firelock76]

David, somehow I doubt in that Halifax shot the pavement is that reddish color.  What we're seeing could be due to color shift in an old slide depending on the quality of the film used.  It looks like red clay or even brick dust which I doubt Halifax used for paving material,  those Halifax winters would have destroyed it in no time at all.