I suspect any wood construction motor car of the New Haven's in 1908 was rebuit from an existing open=platofrm steam-hauled car. Shrotly after they wnet to Danbury, they were replaced there also.
The Myrtle Avenue el convertable gate car end of operation (the 1300's), had nothing to do with the converstion of the outer part of the Fulton Stret elevated for A-train subway operaton and connection to the old LIRR over-the-bay line to the Rockaways. 1300's stopped operating on the Fulton Line when the Lexington Avenue Elevated was abandoned much earlier. C-type converted gate cars to quarter point doors mu doors continued on Fulton until the conversion to subway operation, but not 1300's.
The last Gate cars were taken out of service after the Manhattan portion of the IRT 3rd Avenue el was abandoned and only the Bronx section, 149th Street to Gunn Hill Road, remained. This meant that the BMT "Q' cars that had been used in 3rd Avenue Thru Express service were available. They had their roofs lowered and were transferred to the Myrtle Avenu El replacing the last gate cars. The Q cars were the open platform BMT el cars that had been rebuilt as closed cars with quarter point doors for the 1939 Worlds Fair, and were transferred from BMT Astoria and Flushing operation to the 3rd Avenue El when the Flushing Line became all-IRT (No. 7) and Astoria had nose strips on the station platforms removed to permit through BMT steel car service (still current). On the 3rd Avenue El the Q's replaced the last IRT gate cars and the composites that had opened the original subway. So the Q's were the real mop-up cars against open platform operation in NYC.
MidlandMike All this has me wondering what the engineers stand was like in the open-ended NH MUs. Obviously he was not standing on the open platform, and would have been inside the car. Was he in his own compartment, or out in the open at the front of the car?
All this has me wondering what the engineers stand was like in the open-ended NH MUs. Obviously he was not standing on the open platform, and would have been inside the car. Was he in his own compartment, or out in the open at the front of the car?
In a story published by the "New Haven Railroad Historical & Technical Association" in "The Shoreliner" 1989 issue 2, the electrification of the Stamford to New Canaan branch was covered. The line was converted from 600 volt DC to 11,000 volt AC in 1908. It was served by two, 2 car sets, WOOD CONSTRUCTION, open platform, MU trains. Each power car was a Combine with one numbered 4010 and the second power car numbered 4011. Each had a converted coach as a trailer. A three man crew of Engineer, Conductor, and Baggage Man ran the shuttle. The Engineer sat inside with a large window in front of him and a side window that he could open like a steam train cab. It does state the "wood cars" were bumped to the Danbury Shuttle with the comming of the Standard Steel Open Platform MU Cars. The Open Platform steel cars remained in service until 1954.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
bigduke76 the myrtle av. open-platform, convertible-side el cars lasted until 1956; when part of the route was rebuilt as part of the rockaway route conversion of the old LIRR trakage. the sides were only open in the summer; a quite breezy ride. and yes, i did ride the first subway train to far rockaway.
the myrtle av. open-platform, convertible-side el cars lasted until 1956; when part of the route was rebuilt as part of the rockaway route conversion of the old LIRR trakage. the sides were only open in the summer; a quite breezy ride. and yes, i did ride the first subway train to far rockaway.
1956! I wondered why I remembered seeing them, even riding them, so well. They left later than I thought.
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Also true of Manhattan and Brooklyn elevateds and the New Haven open-platform mu's.
When the IRT rebuilt some "gate-cars" into closed platform cars with mu door control, the cabs were left in place, so the motorman looked through two windows/ The BMT rebuilds (C-types and Q-types) were far more heavily rebuilt with quarter-pont doors and essentiallyi zero platform and with a new corner operator's cab.
I'm not sure how it was on steam roads, but the open-platform wood cars of the predecessors of Chicago Rapid Transit Co. had the motorman's cab inside the carbody.
The arrangement of the control cab depends a lot on the location of the doors. South Shore's Insull-era MU cars had a cab with controls in the vestibule, with a door that in one position closed off the controls and allowed the side door and trap to be opened for passengers and in the other position became a wall for an operating cab. IC's 1926 MU cars and the 1972 Highliner MU cars had a similar arrangement. LIRR's M-1 cars and Metro-North's M-1a cars have quarter-point doors and a dedicated cab, similar to most rapid transit equipment.
Metra's bi-level coach cabs and the new bi-level electric MU cars have a dedicated cab on the upper level with wide center doors for the passengers.
Yeah, the doors opened at that vestibule to cover the controls...remember, too, the engineer carried his own reverser lever and air brake handle, so they were never "complete" controls without those two pieces in place. And, unless the car was out of service, not in use, the doors and traps were closed in the vestibules, too, but open with traps up holding the door open in place making drafty, noisey, and narrow passage to the footplate to next car.
As a kid I used to ride the NYC and LI, and I remember with the door swung open it covered the engineers controls, although you could see them thru the window. I don't doubt they were in public view between stops, however, I did not want to incur the wrath of the conductor by hanging out in the vestibule.
Yes, the vestibule rather than a cab was the control point for the engineer or motorman (depending on road). Trailers were always on the west, our outbound, end of the train and motors or motor cars (with pans) was on the east or inbound end. And they were paired back to back and I think needed one and one to operate. DL&W did not have single car ability. However, they did have odd numbers of cars per train from 3 to 13 with an extra motor car. As for vestibules, because they were vestibules, the controls were in public view when in mid train or when used for entraining or detraining (usually at Hoboken and mostly detraiing to the left platform inbound, but could be used for boarding westbound from either side. I believe most MU's of the era were that way but modern times brought about cabs or closets inside the passeanger compartment with no vestibule thus no entry or exit. just like subway cars. Now, new MU's and subway cars are vestibuled for motorman safety. Push pull control cars are the same today.
henry6 Right, Dave, the cars designed to be closed in for MU were a little less open than the other open vestibule cars used in commuter service. I think several museums might be surprised that they can easily remove the steel sheeting on some of the MU trailers they got and have an open vestibule car!.
Right, Dave, the cars designed to be closed in for MU were a little less open than the other open vestibule cars used in commuter service. I think several museums might be surprised that they can easily remove the steel sheeting on some of the MU trailers they got and have an open vestibule car!.
Middleton's book has a picture of a DL&W train with a trailer in the lead equipped with the engineer's stand in what looks like a completely enclosed vestibule. Were there any control trailers equipped with partly open vestibules?
OK...but I stand corrected. According to Taber the DL&W purchased 25 coaches which could be converted to MU trailers when needed....they were just like any DL&W MU trailer without the appliances and were not open vestibule like the Boonton Line/Steam Train suburban cars. The Boonton cars had two posts, however, abreast the coupler and walkway to the next car...no vestibule and no diaphram but I remember there were steel plates across the coupler and chains from car to car similar to subway cars of the time. Pictures and details in Tabers' books.
The two posts on each end may be structural. I would not remove them because they are a safety feature, and don't disturb the "openness" of the open platform to a significant degree.
The open-platform trail commuter cars on the DL&W were not comletely open platform. They did have steel members on each side of what would be the train door (with or without diaphragm) from floor to roof, giving better crash protection than other open-platform cars, including the New Haven's steel mu's, and the D&H mine worker commuter cars. In addition to roller bearings, the D&H cars had "Harriman" arch roofs!
Photos of New Haven Equipment, select "Steam and Electric Locomotives" and Search!
http://images.lib.uconn.edu
The Lackawanna had open vestibule steel cars used in NJ commuter service on the Boonton Line to Dover, Washington and Branchville; could also be found on the morning Paper Train from Hoboken to Branchville and the evening milk train from Branchville to Hoboken bot via the Morristown line. The cars lasted well into the EL era and can be found today on may tourist railroads all across the country. Some ot the steel trailer cars of the MU fleet were built early in the 20th Centruy with open vestibules modified when the power was turned on.
Lackawanna timetables in mid Century showed service for "Electrified Lines and Boonton Steam Trains". Later that was changed to "Diesel Electric" instead of steam.
In subway or rapid transit service, I remember the Myrtle Aveune El in Brooklyn with open side cars along with open vestibules into the very late 40's.
None were preserved as far as I know. The D&H had some steel, roller-bearing open-platform coaches used in Scranton - Carbondale, PA local service, steam-hauled.
Open platformed cars especially steel ones were kind of rare by that point in time. It's good to know they still built some made of steel instead of wood. I can safely assume none of the New Haven cars were preserved in any shape or form. I hope I'm wrong.
Looking thru Middleton's book, it appears that out of the dozen Class 1 RRs that had EMUs, NH was the only one with steel open-ended cars. There were some wooden open-ended cars built in 1903 for the predecessor of the NWP in the north Bay area, but at the time it was something more of a shortline interurban. Even into the early SP/ATSF era they bought more wooden MUs. When SP acquired full control, they bought steel/aluminum vestibuled MUs.
They lasted through WWII, and I recall seeing a train of them in Grand Central Terminal as late as 1949 on a rush hour Stamford local. In addition to motors and trailers, there were also two combines with baggage sections. The most frequent use of them in their last days was on the New Canaan - Stamford shuttle and the occasional E. Norwalk - Danburry shuttle. On occasion they did mu with vestibuled cars, and I saw a photo of one with one vestibuled car on the New Canaan shutttle, usually a two-car train. The first vestibulted emu's of the New Haven were bought in 1912 or 1914.
That's very interesting stuff. This is like the only picture I found of these cars. How long did they last in service? And were any preserved or were all of them scrapped?
According to W.D.Middleton's When the Steam Railroads Electrified (1974) p.82 they were the original MUs acquired starting in 1909 from the Standard Steel Car Company and were distinguished from subsequent car orders by the open platforms. Edit: p79 adds that there were both motor cars and trailer cars. Motor cars had 4 Westinghouse 175 HP ac/dc motors and were geared for 55 mph. They were 72' long, weighed 84 to 88 tons, and seated 76 to 84 passengers.
In the book The New Haven Railroad along the Shore Line (Kalmbach, 1999) p.21 shows a railfan excursion still using the open-ended cars in 1948.
I found these EMUs and I snooped around other websites to see if I could find any info on these EMUs, but all found was this picture and nothing more. Anyone here have any info on these EMUs?
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