Interesting thread. I've recently been reading Brian J. Cudahy's A Century of Subways, which despite the name has about 100 pages of text on New York's Electrified Railways. It includes MU rosters for the New York Central Railroad, New York New Haven and Hartford Railway, Pennsylvania Railroad and the Long Island Rail Road.
There is a preview on Google:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=U4sG89SYvAIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
blue streak 1 100 m-8s deivered with 14 of those being tested http://mta.info/mnr/html/newM8.html
100 m-8s deivered with 14 of those being tested
http://mta.info/mnr/html/newM8.html
Now is 138 in service with another 18 being tested.
Some closed-vestibule cars did make it into the PC era, and as I posted earlier, some were used as trailers behind a GG-1 in Trenton - NY commuter service! Generally, the Washboards held down all off-peak service, but some old non-air-conditioned cars continuied in operation duirng rush hours until the first batch of M-2 "Cosmopolitans" went on line.
This post was in the context of a picture of some old closed vestibule EMUs. Now I'm not sure whether the author was referring to the open or closed vestibule cars making it into PC era.
Well if it is correct it wouldn't be the first time 60 year old equipment was still running around the Northeast.
I also thought they were retired by 1956, but an above post indicates there was a photo of one with the PC logo. May be it was a photoshop product? Or maybe it was in work-train service?
daveklepper In the PC era any remaining open platform steel mu's ran only on the New Canaan branch. Possibly one open platform and one closed as a two-car shuttle. The 4400 "washboards" were doing most of the work, and the older equipment stored out of service when needing work. (This applied to some of the washboards also.) Or used as trailers behind locomotives. Including one set in Trenton - Penn Station service! Behind a GG-1.
In the PC era any remaining open platform steel mu's ran only on the New Canaan branch. Possibly one open platform and one closed as a two-car shuttle. The 4400 "washboards" were doing most of the work, and the older equipment stored out of service when needing work. (This applied to some of the washboards also.) Or used as trailers behind locomotives. Including one set in Trenton - Penn Station service! Behind a GG-1.
The PC era on the NH began in 1969. Are you saying some of the open platform steel mu's were still running then ? (an earlier post had them retired by 1956)
Ok, then Danbury is the location...you can still see some of the structures for the cat in some places I believe
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According to Middleton in When the Steam Railroads Electrified the Danbury electrification lasted until 1961.
I wonder how many of those EMUs were built. I can't seem to find anything on them no matter where I look. The only thing I know is that they mixed with the open platform steel EMUs and that they also made it into the Penn Central era, which I found a picture of one with the PC worms. That is some interesting information you know there by the way.
as of july 31, 128 M-8s delivered and 122 accepted into service;
The cropped picture leads me to Danbury CT but when opened up I see the McGinnis era pain scheme on some of the cars...but these do date before the stainles motors. This yard, threfore, has to be Stamford as I don't believe there ever was such extensive trackage in New Caanan. Funny, if I didn't see "New Haven" on the nameboard, I would think Reading because of roof form. Off hand I don't believe Danbury electrification made it into the McGinnis era but was gone by the mid 40's.
Otherwise, I like it!!
I found these other New Haven EMUs and I am wondering about these. I saw in some other pics that these ran in mixed consists with the open platformed EMUs that I asked about in the first post on this thread. Note how I did not make another thread because this already exists.
Just a comment or two.
I think the station is Morris Heights. If you look at the sign next to the car in question the 1st word is shorter than the second. IE not University Heights.
Also the picture shows Sedgewick Av in the background(I think) but not the Major Deegan. This should give a time frame.
Looking at the details should give a better time frame. If someone can think what the building in the background might have been.
Looking at a current google maps shows all kind of change.
Thx IGN
I should have noted the LIRR baggage control trailers had two doors per side, like most ful baggage cars, not three like the NYC baggage control trailers.
Well of course you'd find PRR marked equipment all over the LIRR up until 1950 when the PRR dumped out. And the integration was such that it lasted longer than that. Not the electric stuff but the baggage, mail, even sometimes non electric (not trailer) coaches would pop up.
daveklepper 2. The LIRR had the same type of equpment, with monitor roofs, like PRR cars, not the usual arch roof like most LIRR cars. Most or all LIRR mu combines also had monitor roofs, although these were motor cars, not control trailers. It was tuscan red because it had not been repainted. No PRR mu could be loaned to the LIRR because ALL PRR mus were 11000V 25 Hz AC overhead wire powered and not 600V DC third rail like the LIRR.
2. The LIRR had the same type of equpment, with monitor roofs, like PRR cars, not the usual arch roof like most LIRR cars. Most or all LIRR mu combines also had monitor roofs, although these were motor cars, not control trailers. It was tuscan red because it had not been repainted. No PRR mu could be loaned to the LIRR because ALL PRR mus were 11000V 25 Hz AC overhead wire powered and not 600V DC third rail like the LIRR.
I guess I was thinking about how PRR used to own LIRR, and forgot the little detail about how they were totally incompatible electrically. I remember back in the day also there were still some gray monitor roofed coaches.
1. The New York Central mu is a southbound Harmon -GCT local stopping at the Univesity Heights Station on the connection between the Spuyten Dyvel juction with the "West Side Freight Line" (now the Amtrak main to Penn Station) and the Harmon wye and yard and junction with the Harlem Division line.. The River is the Harlem River, not the Hudson, with Washington Heights, not New Jersey, on the opposite shore. Yes the NYC had full baggage-car unmotored control trailers, trailers with controls to operate at the head of trains.
Full baggage MU cars are quite rare, however PRR also had some. CNS&M had some express motors (200-series) that were similar in concept.
henry6 Only that it was the NYC standard MU GCT to Harmon or White Plaines North. The full baggage MU is a rarity, however, and I don't know of any on NH, LIRR, PRR, RDG, DL&W, IC or CSS&SB! And note that it was onthe west (north) or outbound end of the train, too.
Only that it was the NYC standard MU GCT to Harmon or White Plaines North. The full baggage MU is a rarity, however, and I don't know of any on NH, LIRR, PRR, RDG, DL&W, IC or CSS&SB! And note that it was onthe west (north) or outbound end of the train, too.
When I was a kid in the late 50s, we lived near the Nassau Blvd station on the LIRR Hempstead branch. I remember a full baggage car leading an MU train. It stood out because it was tuscan red as opposed to the usual LI gray. I suppose it could have been a borrowed PRR.
I got another question about another EMU. Does anyone know about these? Not much info on these either.
I can remember many great head end rides between Hoboken and Denville in both directions...but what I want to comment on is your last paragraph about the view from the curve east of Summit. I had been riding those trains since 1946 but wasn't until a lte afternoon trip to Hoboken one December that I realized the veiw of NYC that can be seen as you come down the hill. The sun is highlighting the skyline instead of flooding it as it does midday or backlight as in the early morning. When the leaves were off the trees I would venture a guess that those riding #6 into the City had one of the best entrance views of any rail ride!
DLW had controls on both the motor and trailer cars, as these were semi-per coupled into a single unit. The controls were open to the public when boarding. In fact, the Motorman would take the controller key and break handle. But, the controller was always in plan view. I don't know if there was an interlock preventing controller handle from moving when the key was out. One other thing done when closing down the controller station was the sent was flipped-up against the bulkhead. This allowed then the opening of the stairs for loading. In Hoboken, the Motorman was out the door in under 30 seconds, quick enough to be ahead of the commuters.
In later years as issues of age caught up with the units, sometime units would not MU. Going West upgrade into Convent Station the Conductor would engage the control in one of the non-responding units and drive it along. He was going by sound and feel to know when to cut power as radio’s were not yet in common use between crew members. The signal whistle was still “state of the art/”
I would like to add a DLW MU vestibule story here. I attended Rutgers in Newark NJ, for by BA degree riding from Convent Station to Newark for 5 years, 1975 to 1980. Often I had a late class and took the 6:10 "Dover/Gladstone Express" (that is what the platform man use to call at the Newark station, almost 35 years later I can still hear his voice calling the trains.) Often the express was a 12-car train (6 units long) and loaded full with folks coming out of NYC. It was a standing room only a lot of nights until after Summit when folks detrain and the train split in half (front half to Dover, rear to Gladstone.) What I learned early on was to make my way to the Dover half of the cars, then pull down the Motorman's seat as my own. It was cold, windy, noisy and the ride of a lifetime in that vestibule! I had my own private seat for watching the last of the twilight through the open vestibule door across from me as life passed from city to woods. This was heaven; being on the train I loved, with the sill plants clanging between the cars, the motors whining, and the smell of ozone and hot grease with every breath. Normally around Maple Wood the Conductor was finally able to make his way forward for checking tickets, and one time he saw me and said "don't fall out kid!" then kept on going.
One other note, there was a long sweeping curve in the tracks before Summit, I can’t remember where anymore, that if you knew where to look, you would see the stainless steel corner beams of the WTC aglow with the last light of sunset while all the world was framed in deep twilight. I will forever be glad I rode that vestibule seat.
Jack Swanberg's definitive 600 page book "New Haven Power" that was published by Al Staufer in1988 has a chapter on NH MU cars. The units in question are listed as "4010-4011, Motor Combo, Wood, Osgood Bradley, 1908, AC only.
Quote:
"For off-peak shuttle service on the 8 mile branch, two wooden M.U. cars were built by Osgood Bradley in 1908 and equipped with Alco trucks, and with General Electric motors and electrical equipment. With truss rods and open platforms they looked like the road's standard steam-hauled combo's, --------- Meanwhile 1904-built open end wooden coaches 1309 and 1414 were converted to trailers with M.U. equipment, operating cabs, headlights, etc. -----"
"However in 1910, the 4010 burned to it's trucks at Talmadge Hill, Conn., perhaps giving the New Haven second thoughts about wooden bodies for 11,000 volt cars" The wooden 4010 was replaced with a "Standard Steel M. U." car also numbered 4010. It also points out that wooden 4011 and the two wooden trailers were condemned and dismantled in 1935.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
Just because Osgood Bradley built them does not mean they did not recycle some older equipment in doing so. I doubt that the New Haven would invest in a completely new wood passenger car in 1908. We would have to look at the construction drawings of Osgood Bradley to settle the issue.
Quote the caption for the published picture of the wood M.U. cars:
"Osgood/Bradley / General Electric built #4011 and 4010 in 1908. They were the only wooden 11,000-volt M.U. cars owned by the New Haven. The cars and their ex-steam coach trailers were used on the New Canaan Branch. Photo by F.H.W., NHRHTA Collection"
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