daveklepper
daveklepper 1. Dallas which eshewed the low-floor trend and uses high platforms and regular four-wheel trucks under its cars, and its cars have mu-capability and use it. 2. Before DART's first line opened, was there serious highway congestion during commuter hours in the Dallas area? If there was, then DART not only benefits its riders, but those who continue to drive as well. ...it is possibly that shifting 10% of the rush-hour road users off the highway can result in a nearly-doubling of speed for the remaing drivers, to the 30-35mph range. And usually, buses don't have quite the drawing power to get people to use public transportation than rail services have.
1. Dallas which eshewed the low-floor trend and uses high platforms and regular four-wheel trucks under its cars, and its cars have mu-capability and use it.
2. Before DART's first line opened, was there serious highway congestion during commuter hours in the Dallas area? If there was, then DART not only benefits its riders, but those who continue to drive as well. ...it is possibly that shifting 10% of the rush-hour road users off the highway can result in a nearly-doubling of speed for the remaing drivers, to the 30-35mph range. And usually, buses don't have quite the drawing power to get people to use public transportation than rail services have.
DART has never had high level platforms. The original equipment consisted of two vehicles that were semi-permanently coupled together onto a common truck.
They require a passenger to get to the floor level via three steps. To comply with ADA requirements, i.e. make the vehicles accessible for mobility impaired passengers, DART constructed a short, high level lift platform at the end of each station platform for people to board through the first car of the train. The platforms had lifts for people who could not manage the ramp.
Subsequently, DART management realized its mistake in not opting for low floor equipment, although I am not sure that it was a viable alternative when the equipment was ordered in the late 80s or early 90s. Sometime after 2000, if I remember correctly, it retro-fited the original equipment with a splice unit between the first and second units, which has a low floor in the center of the car. This made it possible for DART to tear down the ADA compliant ramps and lifts at the ends of the platforms.
The cars (vehicles) share a common truck between them, i.e. a four wheel truck at the front and back of the train and a common four wheel truck between the units. Thus, the back of the first unit and the front of the splice unit share a common truck.
Central Express Way was a parking lot when I moved to Dallas in 1974. It is still a parking lot, so to speak, even after a massive investment to improve it. The other main north/south arteries are The Tollway and Stemmons Freeway (I-35E). They too are semi-parking lots during rush hour.
It appears that the light rail system has taken approximately 40,000 to 45,000 vehicles off the road for at least part of the journey to work. But then too did the express buses, which were DART's first commuter offering to the suburbs. Whether the reduction in vehicle traffic on the roadways has resulted in a significant reduction in commute time is difficult to say because of the tremendous growth in the DFW Metroplex.
A key question, from my point of view, is whether the cost of the light railway system has been justified by the results? Answering it is probably impossible. I was an enthusiastic proponent of the light rail system, but given the results, I am not sure that it was the best choice.
As to the argument that people will ride a light rail train but would not ride a comparably modern rapid transit bus, I would like to see some hard evidence for that assertion.
Capitol Metro has introduced rapid bus transit in Austin. I have ridden it several times. It is quick, comfortable, and appears to be drawing a good crowd. Also, San Antonio has introduced rapid bus transit, again with seemingly good results.
Sam1 I just looked at the on-line information regarding the Orange Line. DART does not mention any express service to DFW Airport. Where did you get that information?
I just looked at the on-line information regarding the Orange Line. DART does not mention any express service to DFW Airport. Where did you get that information?
It was a while back BUT the intent of the Orange Line to Plano was to institute express service along both the Red Line and Green Line overlap portions to get folks to both Love Field and DFW Airport fast. The reason I think it has not been implemented yet is DFW Airport station is not open yet. However I am 100% confident the intent is there for express service by skipping stations and bypassing slower trains.. Wish I had the link to the source but I do not.
Sam1 The percentage of people in the light rail service area using it has not changed materially since it opened, i..e. roughly 2.5 to 3 per cent. Moreover, if it were not for the fact that many of the bus routes that formally ran downtown now run to DART rail stations and require a transfer to get downtown, the ridership on the light rail line might be less.
The percentage of people in the light rail service area using it has not changed materially since it opened, i..e. roughly 2.5 to 3 per cent. Moreover, if it were not for the fact that many of the bus routes that formally ran downtown now run to DART rail stations and require a transfer to get downtown, the ridership on the light rail line might be less.
Yes we had a little event called the Financial crises of 2008 that impacted buildouts of suburbs. However I believe they will resume their galloping pace again once we get a new President and Economic growth is emphasized again at the National level.
I've been in Dallas off and on since 1991 and moved here in 1995. Ride public transit twice a month approx on weekends. Will do so more now since I am no longer on a 100% travel schedule. DART Plano station is just 3-4 miles from my home and I can easily bike there. They need more bike storage pods.
desertdog CMSTPNP wrote: "DART has openly suggested that perhaps Plano to McKinney should be served by Heavy Rail Commuter with a train change in Plano. I think it would be smarter just to design a dual use trainset that can use the DART trackage as it approaches downtown." I was unaware of this recommendation until now. Frankly, it makes no sense to me. The distance between the two cities (Plano terminal to U.S. 380 in McKinney) is fourteen miles. If high speed operation is the goal, the distance hardly justifies it, especially if stops in Fairview and Allen are included. Moreover, a train change is never convenient for anyone and would be enough to keep some from using the line if the connection too often turns out to be unreliable. John Timm
CMSTPNP wrote:
"DART has openly suggested that perhaps Plano to McKinney should be served by Heavy Rail Commuter with a train change in Plano. I think it would be smarter just to design a dual use trainset that can use the DART trackage as it approaches downtown."
I was unaware of this recommendation until now. Frankly, it makes no sense to me. The distance between the two cities (Plano terminal to U.S. 380 in McKinney) is fourteen miles. If high speed operation is the goal, the distance hardly justifies it, especially if stops in Fairview and Allen are included.
Moreover, a train change is never convenient for anyone and would be enough to keep some from using the line if the connection too often turns out to be unreliable.
John Timm
Well even though they do not mention it, I think DART's long term plan is to build to the Red River. They did not have to buy ROW North of McKinney as it is still railroad owned and operated from McKinney to Sherman. Sherman to Dennison is a Class 1 mainline of the Union Pacific, they abandoned or rail banked the former Houston and Texas Central (former SP) between those two cities even though the rail is still in place it is heavily overgrown with brush. The Bridge across the Red River into Oklahoma at Dennison is I think owned by UP.
There is a large frieght yard in Dennison and I believe that MKT had a deal with SP to carry it's traffic North of Dennison into OK because Houston and Texas Central had an agreement with MKT for passengers and freight North of the Red River.....my presumption is that transferred over to SP from H&TC after SP purchased it.
Anyways, DART has not made it's to the Red River plans public, if they exist at all but the Heavy Rail Commuter would likely extend to the MKT Depot in Dennison and perhaps even into OK to Durand, OK.....since there is a large Casino there and a growing number of Dallas area workers now have a ranch in Southern OK.............thats very long term though as Dallas is not growing that fast North.
Sam1 I was in San Diego in January, and I took the trolley to San Ysidro, which is the last stop before the Mexican border. The trolley does not run on the freight tracks, and to the best of my knowledge never has. It parallels the freight tracks from at least National City.
I was in San Diego in January, and I took the trolley to San Ysidro, which is the last stop before the Mexican border. The trolley does not run on the freight tracks, and to the best of my knowledge never has. It parallels the freight tracks from at least National City.
Wow you aren't very observant of the switches from the MTS Trolley line to connect to the Freight line. Yes Freights do use the San Diego MTS lines and below is a video of one doing just that.......note the canetary above the tracks. Between San Diego and the Mexican border, not sure if it is just portions or whole but it is shared trackage with Freight operations, it's really obvious if you look out the window and see the connections and you can also feel the track is rougher. Anyways video below is of the operation........
+++http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fwpWSPys6Y
It's one reason why San Diego to the border payed for itself faster than the rest of the system.
CMStPnP Sam1 I was in San Diego in January, and I took the trolley to San Ysidro, which is the last stop before the Mexican border. The trolley does not run on the freight tracks, and to the best of my knowledge never has. It parallels the freight tracks from at least National City. Wow you aren't very observant of the switches from the MTS Trolley line to connect to the Freight line. Yes Freights do use the San Diego MTS lines and below is a video of one doing just that.......note the canetary above the tracks. Between San Diego and the Mexican border, not sure if it is just portions or whole but it is shared trackage with Freight operations, it's really obvious if you look out the window and see the connections and you can also feel the track is rougher. Anyways video below is of the operation........ +++http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fwpWSPys6Y It's one reason why San Diego to the border payed for itself faster than the rest of the system.
You are partially correct. I did not ride the trolley in the middle of the night. The freight tracks parallel the trolley tracks all the way to the border. There are connections at points along the way for freight trains to access the trolley tracks so that they can cross over to serve the points on the east side of the tracks.
What I said is that the trolley does not run on the freight tracks. I did not say that the freight trains don't run on the trolley tracks. Clearly, they do after hours. What I should have said, I supposed, is that it does not appear, based on a daytime ride, that the trolley runs on the freight tracks.
The MTS owns the trolley tracks all the way to San Ysidro. It also owns the SD&AE right of way, which runs from centre city San Diego to the International Border. The SD&AE also has a number of other branch lines. It contracts to provide or allow the providing of freight services over its rights-of-way during non-service Trolley hours. In 2013 it had miscellaneous operating revenues of $4.9 million, of which $159,583 was generated from the SD&AE as rentals for the use of MTS's tracks for freight operations. All this information can be found in the company's Annual Report, plus supplements, for 2013.
I did not notice any change in the ride quality in January. Lets see, you said you were there two years ago. Is it possible that the SDMTA ground the rail that you believed was rough? I will be in San Diego from June 22nd through June 28th. I will have another ride down to San Ysidro. I will let the readers know if the coins in my pockets begin to shake when we hit the supposed rough spots.
Paid for itself faster than the rest of the system? In FY13 SDMTS had operating revenues of $96.6 million, and operating expenses of $328 million, resulting in a loss of $231.4 million. Depreciation was $92.8 million. MTS required an infusion of $57.7 million from the federal government, $71.9 million from the Transportation Development Act, $9.9 million from the State Transit Assistance Fund, $5.2 million from California State Revenue, $32.3 million from Transfer Net Funds, and $7 million from other local subsidies. Look it up. It is on Page 9 of the SDMTS FY13 Annual Financial Report.
For FY13 the combined farebox recovery ratio for San Diego Trolley, Inc., San Diego Transit Corporation, and MTS Contracted Services was a combined 39.92 per cent. In FY13, as per Page 74 of the annual report, San Diego Transit recovered 29.01 per cent of its costs from the fare box, compared to 52.98 per cent for the San Diego Trolley and 42.31 per cent for MTS Contracted Services. These recover rates are better than those For DART, to be sure, as well as many other U.S. transit authorities, but to say that it is paying for itself is a stretch. It does not come close.
You could have made your point without the put down, i.e. you are not very observant.
"Well even though they do not mention it, I think DART's long term plan is to build to the Red River."
What is the factual, verifiable basis for your belief that DART's long term plan is to build to the Red River? You seem to have a lot of unsupported opinions, which strikes me as unusual for someone who is supposedly a consultant.
What type of consulting work do you do? What is your educational background?
Twice a month on the weekends. That does not give you much insight into weekday operations, does it?
I go to Dallas once or twice a week. I usually parking at Mockingbird Station and take the train to City Place or downtown to have lunch with my former colleagues. Sometimes I take the Blue Line to Garland, because my dentist is in Garland. In any case, 95 per cent of my trips are during the week and, therefore, I am able to observe some of the weekday riders.
What was the impact of the Great Recession on the Dallas Employment market? To what extent did it impact the growth of the DART light rail service area?
The DART Reference Book, which can be downloaded in .pdf format, makes no mention of any express rail service - commuter or light rail.
The book has 94 pages of stuff that statisticians, at least, as well as those who like to ground their opinions in verifiable data, would love.
The DFW Metroplex is likely to continue its dramatic growth. Since I moved to Dallas in the early 1970s, the Metroplex has grown from approximately 1.5 million people to nearly 7 million. Yet, the percentage of people using public transit has remained relatively constant.
Whether future growth as the economy ramps up will result in a higher percentage of people using DART remains to be seen.
Toyota is moving its U.S. headquarters to Plano. According to the Dallas Morning News, they will be taking space in Legacy Park. It is not served by the light rail system. I suspect most of the Toyota employees will drive to work.
Several other major firms, according to the DMN, have announced plans to move to new offices near Victory Station and in Up Town. People working near Victory Station might be enticed to use the TRE and/or DART light rail. But Up Town, where I lived for five years, is a different matter. It is not served conveniently by light rail.
When I lived in Up Town I rode the McKinney Avenue Trolley downtown or walked. Most of the people in the apartment complexes around me drove downtown, if that is where they were headed, or more often than not, they drove across town.
One other factor not mentioned is operating cost. Note the subsidy per passenger for both bus and light rail. Operating costs are less for light rail because one operator handles more people. Maintencance is less, including fixed plant maintenance, because light rail cars don't require new tires very often, nor oil changes, etc. So it may be that over a very long period of time, the investment in light rail will have saved money. This is possible if 22,000 or 25,000 use the particular line daily, and there are no tremendous unusual costs like tunnels or long bridges.
By heavy rail, do people mean diesel commuter trains? Or third-rail high-platform rapid transit? The advantages are higher speed, and the dissadvantges are less convenient and fewer stations, basically.
daveklepper One other factor not mentioned is operating cost. Note the subsidy per passenger for both bus and light rail. Operating costs are less for light rail because one operator handles more people. Maintencance is less, including fixed plant maintenance, because light rail cars don't require new tires very often, nor oil changes, etc. So it may be that over a very long period of time, the investment in light rail will have saved money. This is possible if 22,000 or 25,000 use the particular line daily, and there are no tremendous unusual costs like tunnels or long bridges. By heavy rail, do people mean diesel commuter trains? Or third-rail high-platform rapid transit? The advantages are higher speed, and the dissadvantges are less convenient and fewer stations, basically.
DART's bus system serves hundreds of miles of routes compared to 93 miles for the light rail system. The bus system has 11,351 bus stops, 929 shelters, and 1,336 benches. It has 14 bus transit centers/transfer centers/park&ride centers, and it operates 3 maintenance facilities. The light rail system serves 61 stations and has 2 maintenance centers.
The FY14 subsidy for the bus is $5.10 per passenger vs. $4.11 per passenger for the light rail. This is not necessarily a good comparison, however, because the buses serve less dense population areas, in many instances, and frequently are run for political rather than economic reasons.
The key comparison, in my mind, would be the cost of running buses over the same routes as the light rail, which was done during the early stages of DART, before the coming of the light rail, but it would be impossible to make the comparison today.
Clearly, the operator of a light rail train is more productive than the operator of a bus, but outside of rush hour, maybe he does not need to be, since the load factors during non-peak hours is not much greater than could be handled by the rapid bus transit vehicles in Austin.
Dallas' bus vs rail subsidy costs don't show as much difference as other cities, where costs for rail are about half those for bus per passenger or passenger mile.
daveklepper Dallas' bus vs rail subsidy costs don't show as much difference as other cities, where costs for rail are about half those for bus per passenger or passenger mile.
Without knowing what other cities you are referencing, it would be difficult to make an intelligent comment. In some instances, lets say the Long Island Railroad, the annual depreciation expense for it could be considerably less because most of the property has been depreciated, whereas DART is not only wearing a significant amount of depreciation,it is adding to its capital base and, therefore, increasing its annual depreciation expense. It of course is factored into the amount of the required subsidy.
Here is how Amtrak could eventually cover all of the NEC's costs. As it depreciates its embedded capital costs, whilst increasing revenues, the gap between the operating margin and net income narrows and eventually closes. A key point, however, is not to add to the capital base at a greater rate than the growth in revenues, which can move upward because of inflation if nothing else. Thus, over time, whilst revenues are expanding and depreciation expense remains fixed, the gap closes, and eventually the system has enough revenues to cover its fully allocated operating expenses as well as its embedded capital (depreciation, interest, etc.) expenses.
If the managers are on top of their game, once the property has been nearly depreciated, they sell it or spin it off to an infrastructure management company - call it Amtrak Track and Wires - for somewhat more than book value; tell the taxpayers that they have had a gain on the sale of the property, and get the board, which is made up of unknowing politicians, to award them a bonus for being prudent managers. Then they negotiate rents with AT&W so that they can cover all of their expenses. This is what the Japanese and French have done with a portion of their high speed lines, I believe.
I realize that this is not a transit example, although it would work for transit operators, but I just had to get it in. And you thought only lawyers and politicians were a bit dodgy!!!!
Sam1 The DART Reference Book, which can be downloaded in .pdf format, makes no mention of any express rail service - commuter or light rail. The book has 94 pages of stuff that statisticians, at least, as well as those who like to ground their opinions in verifiable data, would love.
How much, what percentage, of DART's lines are on existing railroad rights-of-way, how much on street or highway both reserved lanes and shared with general traffic? Lots of heavy construction, subways\tunnels? Bridges?
If it had not been for the Twin Peaks and Sunset Tunnels, and the difficulty converting them for buses, even guided electric buses, San Franicsco would have lost its last five streetcar lines, and never gotton the MUNI-Metro nor the F heritage line.
These numbers, which are taken from Page 49 of the May 2014 DART reference book, will give you an approximate idea of the percentage of DART's light rail system that runs on former railroad rights-of-way or in the street median. At the end of 2013 DART had 84.6 miles of light rail in service and 61 operational stations.
Except as shown below, all of the light rail was built along rights-of-way that were or are existing railroad rights-of-way. The Blue Line shares some right-of-way with the Dallas, Garland, and Northeastern Railroad, which is based in Richardson, TX, and the Trinity Railway Express, which is owned jointly by DART and the T, which is Fort Worth's public transit agency, but they don't share tracks as far as I know.
The downtown transit way, which is used by the Red, Blue, Green, and Orange trains, is approximately 1.5 miles long. It runs from the Central Expressway Tunnel entrance to Union Station.The tunnel is 3.2 miles long. The Blue Line runs on 2.5 miles of street median in South Oak Cliff. The Red and Blue lines run on approximately one mile of track from Union Station to the Oak Cliff viaduct. This track was built on a former street, I believe, and was not a former railroad right-of-way. The Orange Line from Bachman Lake to Belt Line, which is 9 miles, is not built on a former railroad right-of way. It was built from scratch, I believe, as will be the remainder of the line when it is completed into DFW Airport. The airport extension opens in August.
If my numbers are correct - they are pretty close, approximately 80 per cent of the light rail system in operation today was built along former or existing railroad rights-of-way.
As I mentioned in a previous post, a major cost for the starter system was the need to build the tunnel under Central Expressway. That had not been part of the original plan, but became necessary because the powers that be in the Park Cities did not want the light rail system running along the former MKT tracks, which they described as their backyard. They had the political power to kill the original route. The tunnel is used by the Red and Blue line trains.
If it were not for the tunnel, then I would say the economics probably favored the light rail approach over buses. If buses had been the alternative, would the tunnel still have been encessary? If not, then buses probably would have made more economic sense, but not if usage of the line through the tunne exceeds say 80,000/day, 20,000 heaviest hour. This is of course a very very rough guess.
daveklepper If it were not for the tunnel, then I would say the economics probably favored the light rail approach over buses. If buses had been the alternative, would the tunnel still have been encessary? If not, then buses probably would have made more economic sense, but not if usage of the line through the tunne exceeds say 80,000/day, 20,000 heaviest hour. This is of course a very very rough guess.
Had DART stayed with express buses the tunnel would not have been necessary. Moreover, if the powers that be in the Park Cities had not been able to change the original plans, the tunnel would not have been necessary.
Only the Red, Blue, and Orange trains run through the tunnel. As per Page 23 of DART's 2014 reference book, the average weekday ridership on these trains is 70,700 passengers. Assuming that most of the passengers are round trippers, i.e. they take the train from Point A to Point B and then subsequently take it from Point B to Point A, approximately 35,300 people use these trains. However, it is impossible to say how many go through the tunnel. Many of the passengers on the Red, Blue, and Orange trains are boarding them downtown for trips to South Dallas or Oak Cliff or along the Orange line to Irving.
As a side note, in my posting on the light rail miles re: use of freight railroad or former freight railroad rights-of-way, the Red and Blue line from Union Station to Cedars runs along part of the Texas Electric right-of-way, which was part of the north Texas Interurban System. It is approximately a mile of track. Also, the Red Line from Mockingbird Station to just south of Forest Lane, uses in part the former interurban right-of-way. This portion of the line is approximately four miles. These corrections don't change the percentages significantly. Had the former railroad rights-of-way not be available for the light rail system, is seems improbable that it would have been built.
All this is a moot point, of course. The DART light rail system has been built out, with a few possible exceptions, and it is seen as a success by many. I use it frequently. Whether it was the optimum decision will be debated for decades, I suppose, but it is what it is.
Also, DART is not completed yet in development around stations or in infrastructure. As mentioned before a lot of the recent line extensions were from a stimulus grant and built years before they were intended to be constructed. They seem to still plan to build a people mover between the DART station at LOVE field and the airport terminal. In the case of the LBJ station on the Red Line they have a rather huge office complex going up......speculation is that it will be a Insurance Company HQ. Other relatively new stations really have not had much development around them yet..........Rowlett is a good example. I have not been to Westmoreland recently but last time I was there a few years ago it was surrounded by vacant land. Belt Line station on the Green Line surrounded by farm fields and vacant land............looks almost like a interurban stop.
I ran a Find for express on the DART's 2030 System Plan. I also ran it for light rail, light rail express, and Orange line.
I got 53 hits for express, 2 hits for orange line, and no hits for light rail express. The hits were concentrated in three categories: Trinity Railway Express, express bus services, and express services across the planned Cotton Belt rail project.
One of the hits obliquely noted that DART could implement some express services on the light rail system, but it would need to add additional tracks and an in the cab signal system. The report indicated that DART does not have any plans, beyond the recognition of a way out possibility, for express service on any of the light rail routes.
I f buses were used and the tunnel not considered necessary, would the buses still have run on dedicated RoW or on roads shared with other traffic? In either case would you ride the busses as often as you ride the rail line?
daveklepper I f buses were used and the tunnel not considered necessary, would the buses still have run on dedicated RoW or on roads shared with other traffic? In either case would you ride the busses as often as you ride the rail line?
Some of the suburban buses ran in the HOV lanes. Some of the Park & Ride buses still run in HOV lanes.
I lived in Dallas. Moreover, I lived inside of I-635, which is a loop that for the most part runs around the city, or perhaps I should say it ran around the perimeter of the city when it was first opened. Now it is well inside of a good portion of the city.
I was not able to ride the light rail to work because it did not come close to my house. Instead, I rode the #36 and #184 buses to and from work. Number 36 is a local bus that runs down Preston Road; Number 184, which I believe has been discontinued, ran down Preston Road to Royal Lane as a local service; from there it ran express to downtown on the Toll Road.
Initially, the Number 184 bus was an MCI intercity coach. It was very comfortable; in fact, it was much more comfortable than the light rail vehicles. The biggest deficiency in the MCI coach was getting on and off. It is primarily an intercity bus; it is not intended for frequent pick-ups and drop-offs. It only has one door and getting on or off was cumbersome. The other disadvantage, of course, is that a bus is a big vehicle, and it can get stuck in traffic just like the little vehicles. But if you are a bookworm, as I am, you don't much care!
Although I don't have access to DART's crime figures, I always feel safer on a bus, especially at night, than on a train. The driver is positioned to see everyone on the bus. If the bad guys try any of their tricks, the driver can call for help immediately. On the other hand, the driver on the light rail train can only see what is immediately behind her. Theoretically, it would be possible for a bad guy to get on a Red or Blue Line train at City Place, hold up the passengers in the last car, and get off at Mockingbird Station without anyone being the wiser, except of course the passengers who was hit on.
I was in Dallas on Tuesday. I had lunch with some friends at a restaurant on Royal Lane. After lunch I took the #36 bus downtown to attend to some business. After I completed my business, I took the DINK over to Oak Cliff to check-out the trolley line that is being constructed from the Union Station area to near Methodist Hospital. The DINK is a free bus. It is a good way to get around Dallas. After returning to downtown Dallas from Oak Cliff, I took the light rail train to City Place, where I transferred to the #36 bus to take me back to Royal Lane. I was exhausted - no really, but it gave me a good excuse to have two glasses of my favorite Merlot and a nice dinner.
Looks like they already have a non-DART bus service in place to McKinney, Sherman, Denison and Durant, OK Looks like Allen even contracted with them to provide bus service across the city instead of DART.
http://tapsbus.com/airport-shuttle/
Looks as if it is starting as an airport shuttle but the city contract with Allen is interesting.
So maybe it won't be DART reaching the Red River, maybe regional rail. I noticed in the North Texas Council of Governments study they took pictures of the condition of the Houston and Texas Central line North of McKinney to Van Alystyne but their report stats stop at McKinney which is interesting, maybe DART does have an interest North of McKinney.
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/transit/planning/rrcs/V.Corridor_E-3_McKinney_Line.pdf
Sam1 I ran a Find for express on the DART's 2030 System Plan. I also ran it for light rail, light rail express, and Orange line. I got 53 hits for express, 2 hits for orange line, and no hits for light rail express. The hits were concentrated in three categories: Trinity Railway Express, express bus services, and express services across the planned Cotton Belt rail project. One of the hits obliquely noted that DART could implement some express services on the light rail system, but it would need to add additional tracks and an in the cab signal system. The report indicated that DART does not have any plans, beyond the recognition of a way out possibility, for express service on any of the light rail routes.
Not sure I buy into that interpretation either as they distinctly stated they will budget a reserve of 50 million dollars, while also stating they will need more money (section 7.2 page 67 of the report I linked a few posts above).. I agree they were non specific but I think that has more to do with not announcing the plan before it can be achieved.....which is a bureaucratic manuever to avoid being accused of not meeting their goals, IMO (don't be specific with the goal in the first place).
They are going to need more track and a second rail route through downtown before they can instiitute express service on the Orange Line, no doubt about that. I think they are planning for it's possibility though. I would not say it was way out. I see it as more in the next 10 maybe 12 years.
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