Firelock76 . . . Cab units? Here at the "Fortress Firelock" Lady Firestorm and I call them "Superman diesels." Wonder why? Well, check this out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0swAKS-5qA . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0swAKS-5qA . . .
- PDN.
tree68 challenger3980 The Alco RS 1 came out in 1941, so even there it was 2 years before the railroads had a road switcher option. Actually, it was longer than that. Wartime restrictions undoubtedly delayed the development of the road switcher (RS), among other things. EMD was actually behind ALCO in developing the road switcher.
challenger3980 The Alco RS 1 came out in 1941, so even there it was 2 years before the railroads had a road switcher option.
Actually, it was longer than that. Wartime restrictions undoubtedly delayed the development of the road switcher (RS), among other things. EMD was actually behind ALCO in developing the road switcher.
I had forgotten about the wartime restrictions, I was just making the point that when the F u its were gainig popularity, the Raod Switcher wasn't an option yet.
There is a story that Dick Dilworth, with EMD didn't even anticipate the GP 7's being used in mainline service, but had commented that the GP's were so "Ugly" (his words, not mine) that he expected that they would be "Hidden" on branch lines and in yards where nobody would see them.
To somewhat illustrate the point of the GP's evolution timing, the GP 7 was designated as a "7" model because it shared the same machinery ie, Prime Mover, Generator, Traction Motors and I believe most of the electrical gear, as the F 7, the main differences, were the frame and body.
I don't know why there was never an "F 1", IIRC the F 2 was from the outside indistinguishable from the F3, but had the same prime mover as the FT.
I believe that the F5 was solely sold to the CB&Q, and had Stainless Steel skin.
I still don't know EMD skipped the "F6" and "F8" models, I will try to see if Jack "Hot Water" Wheelihan, over on the OGR forum knows, he worked for EMD for many years, and was involved with the UP Steam Program, and the SP 4449, that man is a Treasure Trove of Knowledge (He CAN be a bit, er, uhm Ornery though at times , but he is a Very Valued member of that forum).
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Remember also that the diesel locomotive as we know it evolved in the Art-Deco streamlined era of the 1930s, and the first successful units were all intended for passenger service, notably as power cars for articulated trainsets like Burlington's Zephyrs. The E and F units evolved from these, and naturally came in the same streamlined eye-catching carbody, which happens to be the same shape as a Budd or Pullman-standard lightweight car.
The "hood unit" or roadswitcher body type came about after the shortcomings of the streamlined body became apparent, notably the restricted visibility of the engineer when switching. EMD's first attempt to rectify this was the BL2, which ironically ended up being the worst of both worlds and was unsuccessful as a result.
As Doug noted ALCO was ahead of the curve with this, as they were with so many other diesel locomotive innovations, but better reliability and the War Production Board's allocations gave EMD a big boost ahead of the other builders.
EDIT: I see Larry beat me to the punch
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
challenger3980The Alco RS 1 came out in 1941, so even there it was 2 years before the railroads had a road switcher option.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The first diesel switchers were box cabs. Then some switchers came out with the single visibiliy cab. There were still some early box cab road diesels (lke box cab electrics). The early cab units were more like streamlined box cabs. Since they were intended as multiple units, there ws no reason for bi-directional vision as with GP road switchers which might be used as single units.
BLS53 I never understood why it was believed that cab units were optimum for freight use. Seems a logical evolution from steam, would've been the road switcher to begin with. Always thought the RR's were attempting to emulate airliners in appearance with cab units. About all these units had going was their looks.
I never understood why it was believed that cab units were optimum for freight use. Seems a logical evolution from steam, would've been the road switcher to begin with.
Always thought the RR's were attempting to emulate airliners in appearance with cab units. About all these units had going was their looks.
Because the "F" units were the original road diesel, and came out 10 years before the "GP" units.
The FT was released, IIRC, in 1939, the GP7, the first of the GP's was released in IIRC, October of 1949, for 10 years there WASN'T any other choice, at least from EMD. The Alco RS 1 came out in 1941, so even there it was 2 years before the railroads had a road switcher option.
The road switcher simply wasn't an option, "To Begin With".
Firelock76But I imagine there still never were any F8's.
Nor were any F1's, F4's or F6's ever built. The F10's were rebuilt F3's. There's still a few of them still running.
SD70Dude tree68 Firelock76 To my knowledge F8's were never built, F7's were the last hurrah for the F-units, But there were F9s. 99 A's and 156 B's. Visually they were virtually indistinguishable from the late F7's. 90 very similar FP9's were built as well.
tree68 Firelock76 To my knowledge F8's were never built, F7's were the last hurrah for the F-units, But there were F9s. 99 A's and 156 B's. Visually they were virtually indistinguishable from the late F7's.
Firelock76 To my knowledge F8's were never built, F7's were the last hurrah for the F-units,
But there were F9s. 99 A's and 156 B's. Visually they were virtually indistinguishable from the late F7's.
90 very similar FP9's were built as well.
Good to know, it's a wasted day if you don't learn something new.
But I imagine there still never were any F8's.
Firelock76To my knowledge F8's were never built, F7's were the last hurrah for the F-units,
challenger3980 NorthWest Once road switchers came into road use, there was a need to distinguish between the hood units and the units that had the frame as part of the side wall. Cab unit covers the earlier units well, as the cab roof continues back over the rest of the locomotive. There was no F8. There were E8's, any idea why they skipped the F8 model designation? Doug
NorthWest Once road switchers came into road use, there was a need to distinguish between the hood units and the units that had the frame as part of the side wall. Cab unit covers the earlier units well, as the cab roof continues back over the rest of the locomotive. There was no F8.
Once road switchers came into road use, there was a need to distinguish between the hood units and the units that had the frame as part of the side wall. Cab unit covers the earlier units well, as the cab roof continues back over the rest of the locomotive.
There was no F8.
There were E8's, any idea why they skipped the F8 model designation?
To my knowledge F8's were never built, F7's were the last hurrah for the F-units, the more versitile and less expensive hood units like the Geeps killed the cab units just as surely as the cab units killed steam.
Cab units? Here at the "Fortress Firelock" Lady Firestorm and I call them "Superman diesels." Wonder why? Well, check this out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0swAKS-5qA
Get the picture? As a matter of fact when we were in high school back in the early 1970's us kids called those big blocky cars like the one that goes over the cliff "Superman cars," but that's another story.
That show sure was popular with us Boomers!
dh28473 Why were these locos f7 8s or 9s called cab units?
Why were these locos f7 8s or 9s called cab units?
I could be wrong, but I've always suspected the term originated from the difference between "controless" "B" units versus their "A" unit counterparts.
The "A" units were cab units, while the "B" units had no such permanant operators control station. Then the term just sort of got genericized, like "kleenex"
Of course, "B" units do have rudementary control stations that allow them to be hostled around the yard, etc, but that is a seperate story.
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