In referring to maintenance requirements for the various diesels, don't forget the very different usage requirements for a diesel in commuter service and one in freight or long-distance passenger service. The commuter-railroad diesel usually sees four or five hours or use each day with perhaps 1/4 the fleet seeing 12 or 16 hours, where the freight diesel on a Class I or even many regionals may run 24 hours per dqy minus just the tine for servicing.
FWIW: EMD/Progress Rail primer gray demonstrator EMD-906 (F125) was seen late Saturday afternoon in Denver on BNSF bracketed by a pair of empty bulkhead flats and towed by NS-9134 in a special move bound for TTCI in Pueblo.
D.Carleton CPM500 I see little chance of a repower project for the LIRR DE/DM's.While these locos may have been 'state-of-the-art' when built...today the Siemens GTO AC drive on the DE/DM30's is both technologically and economically obsolete. A good deal of replacement material is sourced from across the pond-with long lead times often creating availability issues for the fleet. Very true; "repower" would not be enough for the LIRR DE/DMs. What I had in mind was a full blown rebuild where all they keep is the frame/body and retrofit new electricals, engine and transmission electronics. The advantage of a rebuild is keeping a Tier 1 generation line-haul locomotive thus saving money on unnecessary after-treatment appurtenances. If they can save on cost for the overall project some politico can sell it as "we saved the taxpayer money and made the locomotives more friendly for the environment." In this day and age some people still go for that sort of thing.
CPM500 I see little chance of a repower project for the LIRR DE/DM's.While these locos may have been 'state-of-the-art' when built...today the Siemens GTO AC drive on the DE/DM30's is both technologically and economically obsolete. A good deal of replacement material is sourced from across the pond-with long lead times often creating availability issues for the fleet.
I see little chance of a repower project for the LIRR DE/DM's.While these locos may have been 'state-of-the-art' when built...today the Siemens GTO AC drive on the DE/DM30's is both technologically and economically obsolete. A good deal of replacement material is sourced from across the pond-with long lead times often creating availability issues for the fleet.
Very true; "repower" would not be enough for the LIRR DE/DMs. What I had in mind was a full blown rebuild where all they keep is the frame/body and retrofit new electricals, engine and transmission electronics. The advantage of a rebuild is keeping a Tier 1 generation line-haul locomotive thus saving money on unnecessary after-treatment appurtenances. If they can save on cost for the overall project some politico can sell it as "we saved the taxpayer money and made the locomotives more friendly for the environment." In this day and age some people still go for that sort of thing.
The only future for these beasts will be the scrapyard. Too many long standing design issues that have never been 'solved'...and never will.
Thw locos were designed with the alternator/engine/plumbing stack mounted to something called the 'skid' or 'sled.' In turn, the sled was mounted on a number of elastomeric vibration isolators. When the time came for overhaul, the worn sled would be swapped out with a 'fresh' one, the worn sled would be re-conditioned...and the process would continue ad-infinitum.
The sled itself turned out to have some serious structural issues, which involved the services of a structural engineering consultancy and repairs at Juniata in order to remediate the problem(s). The extra sled assembly was never purchased...nor was the purpose built shop that was required ever constructed. The part numbers for the isolators went dead, as they were never ordered by the LIRR.
CPM500
owlsroost Since CAT owns EMD (via Progress Rail), it's an 'in-house' engine and at least they are being built in the US (not Canada or Mexico like most of EMD's loco production for the last 25 years). I think the F125 breaks down into (some of this is educated gueswork): Bodyshell and trucks from Spain. Diesel engine from CAT in the US. Traction inverters from Mitsubishi (I don't know where these are actually manufatured). Motors from the EMD plant in Mexico. Alternator - don't know. Electrical system and controls - EMD in the US (presumably). Most of the other anciliary systems - brakes, lights, couplings etc. - are probably from US suppliers. Final assembly and testing - EMD in the US. Is that American enough for you? (by the standards of today's globalised companies and production, I think the F125 does pretty well in the 'Buy America' stakes)
Since CAT owns EMD (via Progress Rail), it's an 'in-house' engine and at least they are being built in the US (not Canada or Mexico like most of EMD's loco production for the last 25 years).
I think the F125 breaks down into (some of this is educated gueswork):
Bodyshell and trucks from Spain.
Diesel engine from CAT in the US.
Traction inverters from Mitsubishi (I don't know where these are actually manufatured).
Motors from the EMD plant in Mexico.
Alternator - don't know.
Electrical system and controls - EMD in the US (presumably).
Most of the other anciliary systems - brakes, lights, couplings etc. - are probably from US suppliers.
Final assembly and testing - EMD in the US.
Is that American enough for you? (by the standards of today's globalised companies and production, I think the F125 does pretty well in the 'Buy America' stakes)
Very close re: your supplier list.
Alternator is of KATO manufacture. Given that Vossloh Espana has been sold to Stadler, the future of any more off-shore sourced carbodys is an open question.
creepycrank Yes a lot has changed at EMD since the F40 was assembled with GP40 parts that happened to be lying around the plant at LaGrange. The DE/ DM fiasco was a joint venture with Siemens and assembled in Super Steel's plant in New York State. EMD only contribution was the diesel and possibly the generator. The PR125 is being assembled in Progress Rail,s plant in Muncie, IN with parts sourced who knows where and EMD's only contribution is the builders plate.
Yes a lot has changed at EMD since the F40 was assembled with GP40 parts that happened to be lying around the plant at LaGrange.
The DE/ DM fiasco was a joint venture with Siemens and assembled in Super Steel's plant in New York State. EMD only contribution was the diesel and possibly the generator.
The PR125 is being assembled in Progress Rail,s plant in Muncie, IN with parts sourced who knows where and EMD's only contribution is the builders plate.
I've done a little searching with no answer to the following:
Have any F125s visited TTCI/Pueblo for testing? If not, how soon?
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Dutchrailnut look a better looking LIRR DE/DM ?? but why is it under selling by 3 to 1 ??
look a better looking LIRR DE/DM ?? but why is it under selling by 3 to 1 ??
Originally 46 DE/DM30AC, correct? So far Metrolink has ordered 40 F125s, that's 1.15 : 1 , and Metrolink still has a few un-exercised options.
Some pics
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/583253/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/583025/
NorthWest Unfortunately, both crash standards and fuel economy targets have made anything but the modern sloped-front impossible.
Unfortunately, both crash standards and fuel economy targets have made anything but the modern sloped-front impossible.
Those seem to put the opperating crew in a "you die first" position. A longer nose would give them some crush space at higher speeds. Aero is interesting, and there is often more than one working solution to a problem. EMD/CAT seems to just be using an existing EU model rather than an origonal design.
M636C LensCapOn Just a thought here. If GE decides to re-enter the Passenger loco market, do you think they should blend in the PA/FA style nose? They WERE marketed as ALCO/GE, and GE did the PA styling. (Any skilled member here is invited to do a drawing. :-) ) In Steinbrenner's Alco History, there is an illustration of a passenger C636 with a PA nose, and this was discussed on the "Locomotives cataloged but not Built" thread. The P30CH nose was fairly close to the PA shape while not trying to be a copy. M636C
LensCapOn Just a thought here. If GE decides to re-enter the Passenger loco market, do you think they should blend in the PA/FA style nose? They WERE marketed as ALCO/GE, and GE did the PA styling. (Any skilled member here is invited to do a drawing. :-) )
Just a thought here. If GE decides to re-enter the Passenger loco market, do you think they should blend in the PA/FA style nose? They WERE marketed as ALCO/GE, and GE did the PA styling.
(Any skilled member here is invited to do a drawing. :-) )
In Steinbrenner's Alco History, there is an illustration of a passenger C636 with a PA nose, and this was discussed on the "Locomotives cataloged but not Built" thread.
The P30CH nose was fairly close to the PA shape while not trying to be a copy.
M636C
Already knew about the proposed ALCO passenger loco. That doesn't mean the pitures, drawings and Model aren't loved. :-)
Hi
Although the painting showing the C-636P in SP colours looks cool, it doesn't strickly follow the Alco drawings. The following N-Scale model was built using the Alco diagram with a couple of minor changes that I'm guessing would have been made to the production units.
CheersSteveNZ
M636CIn Steinbrenner's Alco History, there is an illustration of a passenger C636 with a PA nose, and this was discussed on the "Locomotives cataloged but not Built" thread.
(For some reason I remembered this as a Fogg and not a Gil Bennett painting; I think I got it confused with that 'other' famous painted-locomotive-that-never-was, the UP FEF-4. For anyone interested, here is the URL to the 'old' Gil Bennett 'anatomy of a painting' that showed this painting.
Joshua Moldover has a wide-cab freight cowl version that can be printed out and colored in -- it wouldn't be too difficult to modify this to have a World Locomotive-style cab:
In regards to the C636P, there is a Gil Bennett painting of a SP set on the web; Overmod posted a now dead link to the Diesels Catalogued but not Built thread, but it has been stolen and has reappeared here. I'd like to see the full big headlight and warbonnet dress, but you can't have everything.
If anyone has anything new for that thread, I'll happily bump it.
Oh, and as far as boats go, little beats the FM Erie Built.
I always thought with that long "prow", the PAs all should have had "Cunard Lines" emblazoned on the side. Their lines reminded me of the late 1910s-1920s ocean liners like the Aquitania - stately and elegant in their conveyance...
The first EMD F125 has arrived in Los Angeles! SCAX 905 was towed in today:
mdw What ever happened to "This Week at Amtrak" and the whole URPA website?
What ever happened to "This Week at Amtrak" and the whole URPA website?
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
WizlishNow if only the engines hold up as well as 567s did!
I suspect they won't (there have already been a couple of minor fires on the CAT-powered class 68s in the UK, but I don't know if these are engine-related), but it's part of the price you tend to pay to get a high power-to-weight ratio in a passenger locomotive.
Passenger rail is a tough application for diesel engines due to the constant thermal cycling from full power to idle to full power at every stop or speed restriction. British Rail coined the term 'Binary Driving' to describe it when they were investigating engine problems on the HST trains in the 1970s/1980s (cracks in crankcases and exhaust manifolds, loose cylinder liners etc. - parts of the Paxman Valenta engines had to be re-designed to fix the problems)
owlsroost I suppose I was meaning the F125 was designed from the beginning as a passenger unit (like the E-unit), instead of being adapted from what was originally a freight unit. It's nice breath of fresh air in the diesel locomotive world
I suppose I was meaning the F125 was designed from the beginning as a passenger unit (like the E-unit), instead of being adapted from what was originally a freight unit. It's nice breath of fresh air in the diesel locomotive world
That is very true -- but there is also the general 'impediment' of EMD passenger locomotive development 'after the E unit' to provide utility in freight service as well. That was markedly observed as early as the N&W 'Redbirds' in a sense, and the use of 85 mph gearing in some of the NYC Geeps, and became a principle in the SDP units that substituted for anything a E unit would do, and then the SDP40 cowl units (for an Amtrak not intended to 'live' for the service lifetime of the locomotives). Then I think there were intentional 'economies of design' up to and including the infamous F40 that made them less effective as a distinct passenger-unit design optimized for that service (as I consider the Genesis units to be). Most of the 'subsequent' designs from EMD are really more 'commuter' units than high-speed passenger power, useful for high-horsepower accelerations more than sustained high speed.
Even though many of the F125 locomotives are going into some form of 'regional' service, I agree they are a good high-speed design and a worthy successor to any of the 'classic' high-speed EMD locomotives particularly including E units, both in terms of esthetics and performance.
Now if only the engines hold up as well as 567s did!
Yet being a Geep in a fancy dress, is what made the F40 great, it was dependable,rugged and didn't look half bad.
Would like to see the F125 in phase three striping though.
I suppose I was meaning the F125 was designed from the beginning as a passenger unit (like the E-unit), instead of being adapted from what was originally a freight unit. It's a nice breath of fresh air in the diesel locomotive world
owlsroostI think it's great that EMD have finally got themselves a true successor to the E-unit, instead of producing Geeps in different clothing
The 'true successor to an E unit' would have two prime movers and A-1-A trucks. The F125 is almost as much a successor to a 'cowled Geep' as it can be said to be a successor to an F unit (the additional 'similarity' in the latter case being the stressed carbody construction adding to chassis strength).
It would be interesting to see just what an actual modern E unit would involve in a modern context -- probably as many hp as a modern electric locomotive's continuous, and perhaps hourly, rating, but nearly as good riding and dynamics and, perhaps, better radial steering than with even low-unsprung-mass four-wheel trucks. 6000 hp or more achievable without needing to run the engines all the way up to 1800 rpm as an expected service speed.
Some potential economy for a given range of consist 'common' to Amtrak LD service, where the power needs call for two Genesis locomotives and the common-mode failures aside from those in the prime movers or alternators are relatively limited... ?
longhorn1969This is from the same company that made the venerable F40?.................Hearsay.
Did you mean 'heresy'?
I think it's great that EMD have finally got themselves a true successor to the E-unit, instead of producing Geeps in different clothing. The F125 is a proper, modern, passenger loco.
This is from the same company that made the venerable F40?.................Heresey (thanks for the correction).
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