i don't think so, but BNSf engieers don't like the C4's in mountainous territory, claim they stall with a heavy train. Thought the C4's were supposed to be used on high-speed trains, not heavy grain or coal. Also, I read that the SD70ACe-P4's were changed to SD70ACe-P6's
Speaking clock Those are some good points. I've never heard of the ES44ACi, but I'm assuming it's an export variation. Since my last post, I have read about the BNSF -9 conversion in a magazine, and I have seen a NS dash8 rebuilt with the admiral cab. Those look promising.
Those are some good points. I've never heard of the ES44ACi, but I'm assuming it's an export variation. Since my last post, I have read about the BNSF -9 conversion in a magazine, and I have seen a NS dash8 rebuilt with the admiral cab. Those look promising.
The ES44 DCi and ACi are built on the AC6000 frame and have AC6000 radiators with two cooling fans to suit the high temperatures in northern Western Australia. Rio Tinto resisted buying AC locomotives, and bought 100 ES44DCi units while their main competitor bought SD70ACe units.
The interesting thing was that the standard SD70ACe radiators were used quite successfully, with both types meeting Tier 3 emissions.
I can only assume that the GEVO engine was more sensitive to temperature variation. Rio Tinto GEVOs suffered a number of early turbocharger failures, hence the references to the improved turbo in the GE description of the ES44ACi...
M636C
GDRMCoI get your point Peter and respect your experience in the field, my post is more directed to the individual comparing a GEVO to a U25B and making the point that the GEs of today aren't the 'garbaGE' they once were (hell GE even admitted the early U boats werent that good).
Speaking clock GDRMCo I get your point Peter and respect your experience in the field, my post is more directed to the individual comparing a GEVO to a U25B and making the point that the GEs of today aren't the 'garbaGE' they once were (hell GE even admitted the early U boats werent that good). Those are some good points. I've never heard of the ES44ACi, but I'm assuming it's an export variation. Since my last post, I have read about the BNSF -9 conversion in a magazine, and I have seen a NS dash8 rebuilt with the admiral cab. Those look promising. These GE's probably will last a little bit longer, and I have noticed that some railroads take better care of their engines than others. NS is turning into the 1970's ATSF with all of their rebuilds. While CSX is a little less enthusiastic, I will take note that they take better care of their 1970's EMD's than GE's of the same time, if there are any -7's left on the roster... I say that it's a little early to predict the future for aging GE's. From history EMD has better long term reliability and can take a little more abuse (remember the CSX8888 that ran in full throttle for two hours with only a melted parking brake to fix?) , but GE may be onto something with their new prime mover. However, I would not dive into a largely GE fleet after seeing how some engines age, and after hearing the words of a GE worker. Quick question, how come EMD's get rebuilt into slugs while GE's aren't? The only GE slugs I've seen are the Sandersville set, which are powered By EMD mothers.
GDRMCo I get your point Peter and respect your experience in the field, my post is more directed to the individual comparing a GEVO to a U25B and making the point that the GEs of today aren't the 'garbaGE' they once were (hell GE even admitted the early U boats werent that good).
These GE's probably will last a little bit longer, and I have noticed that some railroads take better care of their engines than others. NS is turning into the 1970's ATSF with all of their rebuilds. While CSX is a little less enthusiastic, I will take note that they take better care of their 1970's EMD's than GE's of the same time, if there are any -7's left on the roster...
I say that it's a little early to predict the future for aging GE's. From history EMD has better long term reliability and can take a little more abuse (remember the CSX8888 that ran in full throttle for two hours with only a melted parking brake to fix?) , but GE may be onto something with their new prime mover. However, I would not dive into a largely GE fleet after seeing how some engines age, and after hearing the words of a GE worker.
Quick question, how come EMD's get rebuilt into slugs while GE's aren't? The only GE slugs I've seen are the Sandersville set, which are powered By EMD mothers.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just wondering. GE has good traction motors ( which is probably one reason why ALCO's stuck around a bit longer than other builders, even when repowered)
I'm not trying to talk down GE, but according to the repowering table in the back of the "the Second Diesel Spotter's Guide" (by jerry a. Pinkepank copy wright 1973) a lot of roads went to the trouble to repower old ALCO's ( and the occasional Fairbanks Morse), like the ACL, ATSF, L&N, MKT, MP,NDEM,RI, SLSF, and United states steel.
wouldn't traction motors make for a good slug?
ML
I doubt Dash 8s and, especially, Dash 9s will dissappear from the rails anytime soon. NS is currently rebuilding it's spartan-cab 6-axle Dash 8s into C40-8.5W (or C40-8E) with a new wide-nose cab, which is similar to their admiral cab SD60E rebuilds. And there's even talk of NS upgrading their DC Dash 9s with AC traction motors. BNSF also rebuilt BNSF 616, a former ATSF C44-9w, into what is essentially an AC44C4.
A lot of the reason why GEs die early is parts supply. GE is very protective and there are few who build their parts, and so when they end their parts support, the entire model line dies (for example, the last of the Dash-7s died rather suddenly about 2007.) EMD is not, and so you can find their parts from many suppliers.
GDRMCoThe GE of yesteryear has nothing on the product of today, everything Dash-9 and newer (AC44, GEVO) is as good as anything EMD can put out (some cases better) and will last as long as any EMD built over the same time period. Thinking the C4s FEC has bought will be failling in a few years has clearly never taken notice of the reliability of current GEs. As for the 'well documented' turbo failures, they're not actually that frequent...
BaltACD CSX's original CW44AC's are 20 years old.
CSX's original CW44AC's are 20 years old.
You should know better than to confront people with actual facts.
Besides the locomotives, the very interesting thing about that train was the flatbed trailer TOFC loads.
You just don't see that anymore. One of the things I like about the FEC is that they'll do the unconventional. If a shipper will pay them good money to haul a flatbed trailer, they'll just take the money and haul the freight.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I didn't know about the lack of interchangeable parts, that makes more sense.
But l know that there is a history of GE'S not aging well. I have seen GE'S blow turbos and they do put on quite a show. Just look up videos on the internet.
I'm just saying that the great GE'S of today will probably be grand junk in 10 years. Remember the U25B?
I Know a guy who used to work for GE aviation. He was not surprised that GE used the FDL from 1959 to2005. In fact, he even said that it "sounds like something GE would do. Fire it up, we're going to see how hot this thing runs. Buy a chemical polymer division have them work with it."
The star child we call the ES44C4 may mature into an engine that actually performs like C4 (BOOM!)
Speaking clock I know that EMD is closed until 2017, but why the heck would the FEC jump from light EMD D.C. To heavy GE AC? I understand the run through power familiarity and higher power but there are no interchangeable parts for these engines.
I know that EMD is closed until 2017, but why the heck would the FEC jump from light EMD D.C. To heavy GE AC? I understand the run through power familiarity and higher power but there are no interchangeable parts for these engines.
There's not much that's interchangeable between a SD70M-2 and their GP38/GP40/SD40 fleet, either. So that's not an issue.
And SD70M-2's are state of the art 4,300 HP DC machines intended for duties like hauling heavy double stacks at mainline speeds. Nothing "light" about them in the slightest.
They're switching due to disatisfaction with the EMD product and due to their desire to grow their late model locomotive fleet to handle a greater percentage of their traffic along with projected growth. They will also be switching to burning LNG as part of this modernization of their road fleet.
Rather than add to a small fleet of leased power that they haven't been completely satisfied with, or maintain two different types of late model power from different manufacturers, they're just dropping the 8 SD70M-2's from the fleet.
Seems logical to me.
In Cincinnati, sharonville specifically and Colorado Springs it is not uncommon to find a train limping across a crossing. Most of the time it is limping because one of NS' or BNSF - whatever's or cheap Gevo's blew a turbocharger.
excellent thanks
Not my video, but I think he was parking rather than just waiting for the train. And then decided to try to get a little closer to the side of the street.
Do police cars have interior dome lights? I wonder if he was even inside the vehicle by the end of the video.
Leo_Ames The first GE's have been rolling for several days now. The remainder will be arriving over the new few weeks.
The first GE's have been rolling for several days now.
The remainder will be arriving over the new few weeks.
Nice of the cop to stop for the crossing protection activation, and back up so as not to be hit by the descending gate. But - what was all the manuvering about after the train was alread well over the crossing????
Noticed the FEC Private Cars on the rear of the train.
They went AC since that's all that's offered these days. DC units would be special orders and more expensive than the C4. GE hasn't outshopped a ES44DC in half a decade.
The C4 is claimed to be equal to or better performing than the ES44DC, is offered at a comparable cost, and offers significant maintenance savings with their four AC motors not possible with the DC counterpart. And for a larger line, it can do things that aren't possible with DC motors like pitch hit in the consist of a heavy coal train without special worries about its traction motors and also increases the commonality with the full 6 axle AC power on the roster.
FEC went into this wanting GE power. AC just happens to be what was offered. The ES44DC is effectively discontinued and unless someone comes knocking with a large order, they're going to pay for what amounts to a special order.
I'm sure if the C4 didn't exist that they'd be buying the ES44DC. The premium price of a 6 motor AC motor doesn't offer enough advantages to a line with minimum grades to justify the significant extra cost.
But with the C4, they get the benefits of both. A cost comparable to modern DC power yet the lower maintenance traction motors with longer mean times between failures of AC power. They're not doing this because they have great need for the extra adhesion AC offers or because they want to run heavy trains at 5mph over the crest of a mountain range without wrecking the traction motors.
My wording on that quoted post was rather unclear. Some were wondering why FEC went AC, and if you are going with another builder because you are dissatisfied by one, it makes sense to go for AC.
Outside of the traction motors, inverters, a few more computers, and a few miscellaneous parts on the AC model due to the different transmission systems, there's a lot of commonality between the two in their components, training, many of their major subsystems, etc.
Anyways, my fault for poor wording. I didn't mean to suggest that literally ~90% of their components were shared where their numbers or dollar value was concerned. Rather, I wanted to stress that there was indeed a lot of commonality there between the SD70M-2/ACe/P4 models.
If FEC went shopping for AC power and was open to both EMD and GE, their existing SD70M-2 fleet would've been a significant factor in their decision making process since there's indeed significant savings there with simplified parts inventories and several other major areas. The P4 or the full ACe is not so radically different from the M-2 that there isn't a lot that would be shared between the two models.
It's all but undebatable here with this regional not only going to GE but actually dumping their young SD70M-2 fleet that EMD wasn't a legitimate contender for this order. It wasn't a matter of the AC SD70ACe or the new competitor to the C4 being so different from the SD70M-2 that they could start with a clean slate with their considerations here.
Even without any inside information, logic clearly says that they went into this wanting GE, not EMD products. If they were happy or at least somewhat satisfied with their M-2's and were considering P4's or full ACe's, factors like training of their mechanical forces would've been a major consideration.
A small regional doesn't add a new brand to their roster and abandon modern power lightly.
NorthWestI think part of the break with DC is that since they are purchasing GEs, which have no major parts that are compatible with the rest of the fleet, they might as well go with the advantages of AC. (No EMD DC equipment that can be used on older locomotives such as the SD70M-2s.)
1) Somebody spoke of 90% parts interchangeability between M-2's and ACe's. Incorrect.
2) NA GE freight locomotives have far more domestic content than the NA EMD locomotives. ACe's have their chassis fabricated in Mexico. Traction motors are also constructed in Mexico. Inverters and associated equipment come from Japan. Engine and main alt comes from Chicago. Truck frames are from one of the Balkan countries. Cabs used to be split between EMD and Wabtec. Almost everything else is buy-outs. Assembled in Mexico at Sahagun by BBD.
3) The old EMD is dead. What remains bears little or no resemblance to what was.
Karl
these will be the first ever GE products on this line. a new mentality today. I miss ed balls saying "confusion to the enemy" we are now the enemyP. S. love the speedway to sunshine paint heratige units still the only less than class one with a company historian in Miami. god bless seth bramson
Quality issues, they've had an unacceptably low availability rate.
Hopefully their shop forces will better be able to deal with their ES44C4's since they're much more familiar with modern run through GE power than they were modern EMD power. They primarily selected EMD's last time since they've always had good experiences with EMD power and had never purchased anything else.
But for whatever reason, it hasn't panned out to their satisfaction.
Any idea why the SD70M-2s are disappointing for their use? Quality issues? High diesel consumption? Expensive to operate?
Leo_Ames FEC went with GE since they've been disappointed with their SD70M-2's which they aren't even going to be keeping.
FEC went with GE since they've been disappointed with their SD70M-2's which they aren't even going to be keeping.
These in their historic paint scheme beat the Alaskan Railroad colors on the SD70M-2's any day I think.
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