FEC is acquiring 24 new ES44C4s. Prior to this, FEC's last new locos were SD70M-2s that were delivered several years ago. The ES44C4s will be FEC's first AC traction locos, and it appears nobody is ordering brand new DC traction 6 axle anymore, even smaller railroads like FEC.
http://fecrwy.investorroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=51&mobile=No
I think part of the break with DC is that since they are purchasing GEs, which have no major parts that are compatible with the rest of the fleet, they might as well go with the advantages of AC. (No EMD DC equipment that can be used on older locomotives such as the SD70M-2s.)
Very interesting, thanks for posting.
The FEC's terrain profile doesn't really require the full pulling power of a full 6 axle AC. I suspect a full ES44AC would be rated somewhere between 16000 & 20000 tons per unit.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
As has been said elsewhere the FEC seems like the perfect home for the C4s.
ML
SD70M-2 and its AC counterpart offer a parts commonality that's something like 90% so I wouldn't be surprised to have seen them go with the new EMD counterpart of the C4 had they been considering further EMD purchases. Neither contemporary EMD has much commonality with Florida East Coast's fleet of older largely Dash 2 645 engined locomotives.
Plus, does GE even offer DC locomotives anymore? At the very least where GE is concerned, I bet it's now an extra cost option to encourage standardization on AC now that they have a superior AC substitute at a similar price point to DC back when they were still selling hundreds of DC locomotives each year.
It sounds like the SD70M-2's should be returned to the leasor soon. They were never completely satisfactory on the FEC. And despite plenty of GE's coming to handle all current mainline assignments, it sounds like few of the older EMD's will disappear from FEC rails. They're expecting a significant increase in business that should keep their SD40-2's, GP40-2's, and upgraded GP40's going for years to come according to a source I emailed and postings elsewhere.
I initially rather figured that many of the older EMD's would be reassigned to their new purchase in Maine to replace their current motive power.
Has anyone besides BNSF and FEC yet purchased GE ES44C4s? Or anyone besides BNSF EMD SD70ACe-P4s for that matter?
NS has tested some of the BNSF C4s, but no, I don't think so.
McKey Has anyone besides BNSF and FEC yet purchased GE ES44C4s? Or anyone besides BNSF EMD SD70ACe-P4s for that matter?
McKey: Found some photos of GE's ES44AC's apparently for delivery to Cartier Railway a subsidiary of ArcelorMittal a 260 mil long, privately owned railroad in Northeaster Quebec.)
photo linked @ http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2114498
The site Raipictures lists under GE 4 locomotives of ES44AC designations, all for the Quebec Operation CRR. @ http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locolist.aspx?id=GECX
RailPictures also has about Four or so pages of photos of CRwy's power @ http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?railroad=Cartier+Railway
Probably more info than you wanted, but there it is. Hope it will help.
This trully historic for this fabled line. Since the FEC bought it first E then F, then BL-2 for branchline service it has always been down with the latest and greatest from EMD/GM. The new owners have dispersed many EMD FEC engines to their sister properties. Big money must be backed by GE. They are no longer buying into proggress/EMD/Catapillars bid to keep america with 2 strong engine supplier. A sad day that the old flagler system is back in bed with the Standard OIL/ monopoly system. I 4 one am very sad.
Does anyone know what the road numbers will be for these locomtives?
Ira
the 100's are in use by the SD70's; the 400's are used by the GP40's;the 500's are used by the GP38's; and the 700's are used by the SD40's from UP. It may not be the 200's as those were switcher #'s. it has been a long time since there were 300's or 800's. maybe 600's or 900's. This just pure speculation. There has never been GE products on the railway except visiting Genisis units.Or may be when Norfolk Southern ran thru from Macon for a while. that is where the only earlier GP40's with dynamics came to be. the current owners sent them away a while ago.
Samfp1943, he didn't ask about the ES44AC. He asked about the ES44C4. This a A1A version of the ES44AC that is designed to provide performance that's equal or better to that of the 6 motor ES44DC yet retains the AC transmission of the ES44AC at a cost equivalent to a 6 motor DC ES44DC.
Interesting, I wonder if they will buy. Or do they still have enough old locos in surplus SD40-3, SD40-2, etc.
NorthWest NS has tested some of the BNSF C4s, but no, I don't think so.
NS is now an AC RR with no mainline 4000hp+ DC purchases, the SD40s they've been buying aren't meant to be a replacement for ES40DC/SD70M-2 purchases. Only BNSF seems to have wanted the C4 (and ACe-P4) and have been the driving force behind their development.
NS having 4000 hp models instead of 4400 hp models is interesting. What is the logic behind this downgrading of the engine? Or is it maybe just the company culture.
And still another question: what are the main duties where the veteran SD40s can be found these days?
GDRMCo NS is now an AC RR with no mainline 4000hp+ DC purchases, the SD40s they've been buying aren't meant to be a replacement for ES40DC/SD70M-2 purchases. Only BNSF seems to have wanted the C4 (and ACe-P4) and have been the driving force behind their development.
Thank you! All locomotives related to iron transportation are interesting to me, regardless of their subtype.
samfp1943 McKey Has anyone besides BNSF and FEC yet purchased GE ES44C4s? Or anyone besides BNSF EMD SD70ACe-P4s for that matter? McKey: Found some photos of GE's ES44AC's apparently for delivery to Cartier Railway a subsidiary of ArcelorMittal a 260 mil long, privately owned railroad in Northeaster Quebec.) photo linked @ http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2114498 The site Raipictures lists under GE 4 locomotives of ES44AC designations, all for the Quebec Operation CRR. @ http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locolist.aspx?id=GECX RailPictures also has about Four or so pages of photos of CRwy's power @ http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?railroad=Cartier+Railway Probably more info than you wanted, but there it is. Hope it will help.
Everyone but BNSF seems to have decided that standardizing on one locomotive from each builder is the best option.
NS' 4000HP models reduced engine wear, especially in heavy haul service where tractive effort is more important than horsepower.
I don't think anyone is buying DC road service locomotives.
The SD40s are often found in helper service, locals, work trains, and some shorter manifest freights.
McKey NS having 4000 hp models instead of 4400 hp models is interesting. What is the logic behind this downgrading of the engine? Or is it maybe just the company culture. And still another question: what are the main duties where the veteran SD40s can be found these days? GDRMCo NS is now an AC RR with no mainline 4000hp+ DC purchases, the SD40s they've been buying aren't meant to be a replacement for ES40DC/SD70M-2 purchases. Only BNSF seems to have wanted the C4 (and ACe-P4) and have been the driving force behind their development.
Norfolk Southern's DC motored GE's (both Dash 9's and ES44DC's) have software that limits traction HP to 4000 HP. There is a switch in the locomotive cabs which can be activated with a key (issued to supervisors) that boosts engine output up to the full 4400 HP.
I have read that NS chose to derate the units because they found that the fuel savings outweighed the slight decrease in locomotive performance.
However, the railroads newer AC power (both ES44AC's and SD70aCE's) do not have the derating feature and operate at their full power rating. This is because the AC traction motors are able to fully exploit the higher available power even at low speed and thus are ideal for heavy coal drag service.
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
denveroutlaws06when are the ES44C4 supposed to be delivered?
All I've seen is sometime this year..anyone know more?
The RailwolfFrom a railfan perspective, this is going to destroy the FEC for me. I LOVE being able to watch trains and not have to worry about hearing the boring GEs I hear every day on the CSX. Besides the Florida Central, the next nearest all-EMD railroad of any decent size and HP is states away!
I never thought that I would live to see the day where someone is looking for EMD products for some variety in their train-watching.
These in their historic paint scheme beat the Alaskan Railroad colors on the SD70M-2's any day I think.
FEC went with GE since they've been disappointed with their SD70M-2's which they aren't even going to be keeping.
Any idea why the SD70M-2s are disappointing for their use? Quality issues? High diesel consumption? Expensive to operate?
Leo_Ames FEC went with GE since they've been disappointed with their SD70M-2's which they aren't even going to be keeping.
Quality issues, they've had an unacceptably low availability rate.
Hopefully their shop forces will better be able to deal with their ES44C4's since they're much more familiar with modern run through GE power than they were modern EMD power. They primarily selected EMD's last time since they've always had good experiences with EMD power and had never purchased anything else.
But for whatever reason, it hasn't panned out to their satisfaction.
these will be the first ever GE products on this line. a new mentality today. I miss ed balls saying "confusion to the enemy" we are now the enemyP. S. love the speedway to sunshine paint heratige units still the only less than class one with a company historian in Miami. god bless seth bramson
1) Somebody spoke of 90% parts interchangeability between M-2's and ACe's. Incorrect.
2) NA GE freight locomotives have far more domestic content than the NA EMD locomotives. ACe's have their chassis fabricated in Mexico. Traction motors are also constructed in Mexico. Inverters and associated equipment come from Japan. Engine and main alt comes from Chicago. Truck frames are from one of the Balkan countries. Cabs used to be split between EMD and Wabtec. Almost everything else is buy-outs. Assembled in Mexico at Sahagun by BBD.
3) The old EMD is dead. What remains bears little or no resemblance to what was.
Karl
Outside of the traction motors, inverters, a few more computers, and a few miscellaneous parts on the AC model due to the different transmission systems, there's a lot of commonality between the two in their components, training, many of their major subsystems, etc.
Anyways, my fault for poor wording. I didn't mean to suggest that literally ~90% of their components were shared where their numbers or dollar value was concerned. Rather, I wanted to stress that there was indeed a lot of commonality there between the SD70M-2/ACe/P4 models.
If FEC went shopping for AC power and was open to both EMD and GE, their existing SD70M-2 fleet would've been a significant factor in their decision making process since there's indeed significant savings there with simplified parts inventories and several other major areas. The P4 or the full ACe is not so radically different from the M-2 that there isn't a lot that would be shared between the two models.
It's all but undebatable here with this regional not only going to GE but actually dumping their young SD70M-2 fleet that EMD wasn't a legitimate contender for this order. It wasn't a matter of the AC SD70ACe or the new competitor to the C4 being so different from the SD70M-2 that they could start with a clean slate with their considerations here.
Even without any inside information, logic clearly says that they went into this wanting GE, not EMD products. If they were happy or at least somewhat satisfied with their M-2's and were considering P4's or full ACe's, factors like training of their mechanical forces would've been a major consideration.
A small regional doesn't add a new brand to their roster and abandon modern power lightly.
NorthWestI think part of the break with DC is that since they are purchasing GEs, which have no major parts that are compatible with the rest of the fleet, they might as well go with the advantages of AC. (No EMD DC equipment that can be used on older locomotives such as the SD70M-2s.)
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