Great stuff, and maybe not as off topic as I thought. One thing in EMD's favour is the history. GE may have been there longer, but EMD's history is a great story. Still love Alcos.
Steve
Not complete yet, we have forgotten the TA units built for Rock Island's original Rocket trainsets. T = 1200 HP, from a single V16 Winton 201-A.
Or the one of a kind EMC Model T (Illinois Central 9202), a twin-engined 8-axle 1800 HP transfer unit.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Thanks SD70Dude, that helps to complete the "off topic" picture. BL for Branch Line and MP for Multi Purpose. Have we missed anything?Cheers From the hot summer in Central Otago, NZ
E = 1800 HP, and the designation stuck even though later models developed up to 2400 HP.
Does FT stand for 1400 HP or Freight, 1300 HP?
HiA comment earlier noted that SD stood for switcher. In EMD terms SW doesn't even stand for switcher. We know GP stands for General Purpose and SD stands for Special Duty. When EMD started building switchers, they were normally either six hundred or nine hundred horsepower, and came with either cast or welded frames. The term SW originally meant a six hundred HP unit built on a welded frame. The equivalent cast frame unit was called an SC. The higher horsepower units with nine hundred horsepower were called either NC or NW. Hence we end up with models such as SC, NC, SW-1, NW-1 etc. Things got a little more confusing later on when the horsepower increased. SW-8 had 800hp, but SW-9 had 1200hp, as did the SW-7! Horsepower based model names became more common and we ended up with SW-1200, SW-1500 and MP-15 etc.
Sorry, I seem to have grossly drifted off topic. For the record, I am a die hard Alco fan.
CheersSteveNZ
I agree Jeff; it is most definetly not the EMD of the -2 era. In regards to the loading on the 9043's, the few times, (and it wasn't often) everything worked right nothing could come close to their ability to pull, doing drag tests nothing could really slow one down, and nothing could really drag it around in braking.
Between DC models, GEs load a lot slower than EMDs. Between modern AC models there's not as much difference. The slowest loading AC that we had was UP9043. It was worse than any DC model GE. I've also seen the SD9043 loading about 10K less tractive effort than a AC4400 under full load.
EMD is not your father's EMD. Most of my coworkers prefer modern GEs over modern EMDs. They don't rattle as much. My concern now is that the GE locomotives will also begin to decline since GE sold off the locomotive line.
Jeff
General electric locomotives are notorious for slow loading. Loading is the time it takes when you put the locomotive into notch one, until it starts to move. I remember a engineer telling me once "you could read a novel by the time some of those GE's start to load". EMD locomotives load up very quickly and get going very quickly. That is why nearly every major railroad uses EMD switch engines for yard duty.
On freight trains regardless of length, I never noticed any difference between GE and EMD locomotives when they worked together. Both companies build good locomotives that are going to get the job done. I never heard any engineers complain about having GE or EMD locomotives on their trains. Ideally you would have all EMD or all GE locomotives on one train due to the slower loading of GE locomotives. But I remember on one train when the GE AC6000CW's were brand new. It was our lead locomotive and it loaded up so quickly it was pulling the 6 locomotives behind us like it was nothing. A total beast of a locomotive!
As for my opinion on who I prefer. EMD. You simply can not beat the fast loading. We used a GE B40-8 to kick 80 cars in a yard one night. It was agony. Took forever. I remember a engineer once telling me "if you absolutely need a train to get somewhere as quick as possible. Put six SD40-2's on it". I would totally agree.
[quote user="CSSHEGEWISCH"]
SD originally stood for "Special Duty" and refers to the six traction motors underneath. An SD70ACe is hardly a switcher. I'm not sure where the rest of the posting came from
I have also heard, for many years, that "SD" meant "Special Duty", as CSSHEGEWISCH" has described.
Crocker Junction
But a GEVO definately has that alco sound at times.
In the years before I retired in 2016, the GE's were more reliable, EMD's had a lot of infant mortality - fail less than 100 miles from the shop where they were 'fixed'.
Personally I like the sound of the EMD 2-strokes - they just sound like 'throbing power' waiting to be unleashed. 4-strokes, not so much, didn't like the sounds of Alco's back in the day and don't like GE's today.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Mr. Railman Most Railfans I've met like EMD better than GE. Why is GE hated and EMD loved.
Most Railfans I've met like EMD better than GE. Why is GE hated and EMD loved.
May just be your location? It appears you're in Illinois. EMD engines were built in LaGrange, Illinois, so it makes sense railfans around there would like them better than engines made a long ways away.
EMD and GE are new to this business. EMD builds switchers GE builds road locomotives Every EMD engine starts with SD in the name which identifies it as a switcher GE on the other hand names their engines with the word Dash in the name. GE builds the Dash 9 and EMD builds the SD40, SD60, and the SD70 GE engines are built for speed EMD builds for power which is why both are evenly matched. There is a third heavy locomotive builder that not much have heard about they have been doing it for 150 years their name is WABTEC Industries better known as MPI historically GE and WABTEC are rivals they have been for 150 years when both entered the Current War. Westinghouse and Edison will be turning over in their graves if they hear what SEC did GE and WABTEC are going to merge the rivalry and the Current War is over.
NS is a tight with their money as any and tighter than most; throwing around nickels like they were manhole covers. Historically, GE has been able to provide better financial terms to the carriers and the carriers are all looking for more locomotives for less $$$$$$$$$$. Operationally, any performance differences between EMD & GE are close enough that $$$$$$$$$$ carries the day.
baberuth73 When I hired out with NS in 1999, I asked a couple of engineers why NS had so many dash 9's and was told that GE was one of NS's largest customers and pretty much forced NS to purchase GE products. Only repeating what I was told. And by the way, the engineers I worked with favored EMD locomotives.
When I hired out with NS in 1999, I asked a couple of engineers why NS had so many dash 9's and was told that GE was one of NS's largest customers and pretty much forced NS to purchase GE products. Only repeating what I was told. And by the way, the engineers I worked with favored EMD locomotives.
Sam,I really love the Sam Adams quote too!
I agree, ice cream flavor or favorite sports team,who cares, what ever leading-unit you get, thats what you get. You cant get on the radio and call the Dispatcher and say, I prefer to have #- ___ -____-____ for my trip?
I prefer GE over EMD.
And model as such on my HO layout, even a few Alco's are in there.
The sound has much more character.
Than the sanitized EMD's.
My 2¢ worth.
John - Running Trains 24/7
Personally I really could care less what engine is leading what train as long as the train shows up what engine is leading really doesn't matter especially on the A-line. Although I will say I have seen some very unusual power leading before. I more of a GE person, but then again the 567, 645, 710, and the ill fated 265H are also beasts along with GE FDL-16 Series. As for the GEVOs they are impressive, though sort of rare on the A-line usually it's only a few trains that have them while the rest can be anything.
WABTEC, of which MPI is a subsidiary, is still an independent firm. The MBTA's recent locomotive order to MPI will use GE prime movers instead of 645's.
edbenton brought up the analogy, so I think I'll push it down the road a little more.
CNW6000: (said ) "...Because the crews don't make the purchases.." Most generally the it is the bean counter who crunch the numbers to narrow the field and then the sales men come in, and smooze the upper management to seal the deal..
The the crews take out their new locomotives, and everybod gets a chance to beat the heck out of the new product to see who'll break it, and how long it lasts 'in service' THe TRAINS mags latest issue has a peon to the "GEES 7's and 9's" which seem like TIMEX watches, " to take a lickin' and keep on tickin'". This argument about locomotives seem to constantly gain more lives with each new locomotive builder. Kids argued that their Lionel, was better than the neighbor's American Flyer, and that little kids only played with their Marx sets. On and on, and on, ad nauseaim..
SO now we come to the argument about real locomotive builders.. EMD ( which is now effectively 'Cat' AGAINST GE (which is now selling more locomotives than anyone else). And this is only the Freight sector.
Passenger locomotives is the other cat fight (GE, Brookville, MPI ( Which is now WABTEC ( which is, I THINK, a part of GE ?(?).
There was an old says that my Dad used to say, that seems to fit this scenario" That's why there is chocolate and vanilla ice cream, in the drug store"; everyone seems to have their own tastes, same for sports rivalries.
Because the crews don't make the purchases. They use the tools given them. Besides, CN just bought a pile of used C40-8's and -8W's (yes, I know some are rough mechanically) while they're selling off and scrapping SD40's of various flavors. They also have lots of Dash 9's and GEVOs too.
Dan
Then why does CN have all those SD70M-2s and CP have those SD40-2s
More crew members I know on CN and CP prefer GE to EMD because the GE is more reliable and will generally be more comfortable for them.
Most Engineers,and crews today prefer the Wide-Body cab now over older cab-types. The NS has alot, (1089) GE D9-40CW and most Engineers prefer this Engine over the EMD types,SD-70-2,SD-70M,mainly because of noise,rattling interior noise and a crossing bell that stays on several feet beyond the whistled crossing. And GE and EMD Desk-top controls (ex-Conrail)are also luke-warm to many engineers on the NS. Im a Conductor,so I cant comment too much on performance of the two,however the New NS EMD SD-70ace are Brand-new and are very comfortable,lots of room,some-what quiet,this new series are #1000-? These are my favorites.
Think of an EMD as a sports car and a GE as a truck.
.
I don't think METRA is going to be able to go to EMD for any fixes on their copy cat "645" or on the engine control software.
I heard that GE is heavily invested in WABTEC and is the source of the "645"s. Progress Rail as well as NREC and Brookville are all competitors of MPI and now that Progress Rail owns EMD I wonder about all these deals for traction motors. MPI seems to be going towards GE as the source for engines and other equipment they can't manufacture.
Mr. Railman ...and that's why Metra got rid of those wonderful F40Cs and are kicking themselves in the head right now for replacing them with those crummy MP36s
...and that's why Metra got rid of those wonderful F40Cs and are kicking themselves in the head right now for replacing them with those crummy MP36s
Of course both the F40Cs and MP36s use the same EMD designed 645 diesel engine so I don't quite get the relevance to a GE vs. EMD discussion.
Wabtec is teaming up with GE to build a new locomotive order for the MBTA...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
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