Dynamic vs Air Brakes....When do you use which?

[csxengineer98]

you know as well as i do that the carriers want you to learn how to strech break too..

Do I?
Well I would hope that there is someone, somewhere in the system that knows what they are doing, however, it doesn't seem to trickle down in a heavy enough stream. It's amazing how brainwashed some of these low level officials turn out to be.  

yes i do.... and i was tought how to strech brake as well as dynamic brake.. and im sure you where at some point and if you dont teach your hogger trainees when you have them how to do it..your a fool and have no right to talk about anyones else lack of teaching it... myself..i do use and like to use DB more then air when i run.. mostly becouse in cold weather it donst run the risk of getting a stuck brake... and it takes all the quess work out of if the train has a kicker.. and you should know that with kickers they are unpredictable as in they might kick once for every 10 times you use the air or might kick every time..or kick once and never kick agin.. yes there are ways around that by useing the feed valve (if you have a unit in the lead with one..the new engins have that thourgh the comptuer screens and cant change the EQ res settings while moving) but they frown on that too... the bottom line is they want you to run a train the way that the "powers to be" think it should be run.. and thats is all well and good..they are the ones signing your pay check.. but it dont hurt to know what your doing and learn how to do it from an old head or if you have a short train to do alittle experimenting on your own from time to time to get the hang of it...

csx engineer 

[RailfanRailroader]

My personal choice depends on the territory I run on.  I like to get in and out of slow orders quickly so I use air mostly.  Dynamics are nice on the long downgrade or if your airbrakes don't do what you like.  Having a locomotive fleet with both equipped and non-equipped forces you to make the choice.  Knowing how much dynamic braking effort you have compared to the weight of the train is mandatory.  Too many young engineers and I'm only 27, come to rely on the dynamics.  Then winter comes and you have to make a emergency stop and then they can't.  I learned a lot from a IC veteran about air.  Some of the things I do may scare the hell out of someone from another railroad.  I listen to what the old timers say and not what the college graduate manager that never ran a train says.  When you got 15,000 tons and stop exactly where you want is a great feeling.  It's even better when the manager is behind you sweating about the red signal and you smile as you lay it down one car length from the insulated joints.  Running with someone that doesn't understand the air really makes me nervous.  And having your dynamics cut out on you can get bad quickly.  Reaction time is the number one thing when running a train.  As my friend said you'll feel what the train is doing through your ***.  The vibrations up the seat into your body.

[Anonymous]

http://ge.ecomagination.com/site/showcase/erie.html  

Now the rules have changed?

[zardoz]

  It's even better when the manager is behind you sweating about the red signal and you smile as you lay it down one car length from the insulated joints. 

And you have a bridge to sell us as well?

[zardoz]

http://ge.ecomagination.com/site/showcase/erie.html  

Now the rules have changed?

Interesting that the track that the new locomotive is shown running on has catenary overhead.

[BigJim]

RailfanRailroader wrote:

It's even better when the manager is behind you sweating about the red signal and you smile as you lay it down one car length from the insulated joints.

zardoz wrote:
And you have a bridge to sell us as well?

Hmmmm...Do you need a high place to jump from?

[UPRR engineer]

Take it easy on him. I've had my MOP ask me if i was gonna get her stopped, no one else in the cab thought i was show boating. My thoughts are the same, if ya cant show your boss ya know how to run.... ????

[UPRR engineer]

More on getting her close to the lights, where i work they need us to get as tight as we can so they can squeeze another one behind us. I've put her as close as 20 feet from the block.

[RailfanRailroader]

Thank you. I have been told to pull tight many time so much for the 400 ft rule. The BRC is famous for it.   As for a bridge to sell, yes but it has a 5 mph slow order on it and it's not all that high.

[BaltACD]

http://ge.ecomagination.com/site/showcase/erie.html  

Now the rules have changed?

Interesting that the track that the new locomotive is shown running on has catenary overhead.

I believe the GE Test track at Erie, has catenary to test the Electirc locomotives they build.

[Anonymous]

So whats going on when I see a train back up to move forward out of a Intermodal yard?

Is the train using the springs of the couplers to back up and "spring the train forward?

 

[UPRR engineer]

Are you talking about a switch engine doing that move? The idea isnt to spring the train forward, there getting some slack. Its easier to move the cars that way, hard on equipment, but sometimes a switch engine cant move them other wise. Its physics, im sure you can see in your head why it would be an easier way to get them rolling.

[zapp]

I got the weirdest train yesterday morning, a loaded grain train with a single unit on the head end and two DP's! It had 100 cars, 14,000 tons. It took a little getting used too, but my MOP said UP is trying to stop break in two's. This goes against everything they have been preaching about "no air" because with this configuration you have no real dynamics on the headend, so you have to use air to slow the thing really down, but it sure is fun starting up a steep grade in notch 2 on the head end and notch 5-6 on the rear!

We'll see if the experiment continues.

[daveklepper]

Were the DP's approximately 50 cars back or about 33 cars back?

[Anonymous]

No its when a Stack Train is about to pull out of the yard,,,Each couple has a cushion spring and it seems that the train is using the combined pushing power of 200 of those springs to push the train forward kinda of like those toy cars that you pull and push forward

[UPRR engineer]

I got the weirdest train yesterday morning,................

 We'll see if the experiment continues.

Don't get too excited, the reason for the "no break train" is to run the trains ran from space.

[zapp]

Were the DP's approximately 50 cars back or about 33 cars back?

they were the rear two! All the way on the rear of a 100 car train!

[UPRR engineer]

No its when a Stack Train is about to pull out of the yard,,,Each couple has a cushion spring and it seems that the train is using the combined pushing power of 200 of those springs to push the train forward kinda of like those toy cars that you pull and push forward

What your thinking is wrong, there not using the drawbars to "spring" forward. If they have enough horse power (a mainline train not a switch engine) to move the train which ever way its left for them, bunched or streched, they shouldnt be getting slack to yank the train out. What ever there doing (or did) they shouldnt be moving like that.

[UPRR engineer]

No its when a Stack Train is about to pull out of the yard,,,Each couple has a cushion spring and it seems that the train is using the combined pushing power of 200 of those springs to push the train forward kinda of like those toy cars that you pull and push forward

What your thinking is wrong, there not using the drawbars to "spring" forward. If they have enough horse power (a mainline train not a switch engine) to move the train which ever way its left for them, bunched or streched, they shouldnt be getting slack to yank the train out. What ever there doing (or did) they shouldnt be moving like that.

[BigJim]

Dynamic brakes dont work as well at speeds above about 35 or 40-ish with any kind of train, its even worse on a grade.

I would like to clear one thing up.
While it is true that the dynamic brake gets less effect the higher the speed goes over 30, its effectiveness is related just as much to the trailing tonnage and the decending gradient. The three, speed, tonnage and grade are all related very much like OHM's Law. Just like the units will only pull so much so fast up a certain grade, they also will only hold back so much at a certain speed on a certain grade. So don't read the above quote and get to thinking that the dynamic brake won't hold above 40mph. It just depends on the grade and tonnage how well it will hold.

[UPRR engineer]

Yep....Now that i've read part of my own post again, the part thats in bold, i ment, with a real train.... one with some tonnage. All thats all true tho buddy.

Working with younger, cut back engineers, had more then one freak out on a big double stack with me as i passed a flasher at 70 (or more), looking to hit some 40mph cross overs up ahead. Passing that first mile seems like she's not gonna sit down. Last time my heater didnt work, i couldnt even see out my window... "air is what slows this thing down."