On a recent Saturday I was sitting on outside bench where Amtrak stops besides triple tracks and local CSX train had stopped and was waiting for its conductor.So ran over to where it was and took some pictures.So moved over and started talking to the lady engineer.We had a nice conversation.During this I actually had thougths about climbing up into the diesel to talk to her.But I didn t.Would this have been the proper thing to do at the time?
cat992c On a recent Saturday I was sitting on outside bench where Amtrak stops besides triple tracks and local CSX train had stopped and was waiting for its conductor.So ran over to where it was and took some pictures.So moved over and started talking to the lady engineer.We had a nice conversation.During this I actually had thougths about climbing up into the diesel to talk to her.But I didn t.Would this have been the proper thing to do at the time?
Climbing into the locomotive could get you in trouble and might get her fired under the rules that some of the railroads now have in place. Some of the newest locomotives have an additional camera in the cab besides the one looking forward and this new one is recording the action of the crew. I am not aware of how many are in place but it is the newest thing in railroading. I don't believe you should ever board a locomotive unless you are invited up into the cab.
And by the way, she could have given you a business card or something with a phone number on it or you could have done the same.
CZ
Climbing into a locomotive or any other railroad property is a trespass and illegal. As a railroad employee I cannot help but be stunned by the number of well meaning but misguided individuals who think locomotives are open-access machines. If you are invited or granted permission (or purchase a ticket in the case of a passenger train) that's an entirely different story.
If one is at a rest stop along a highway and decides to climb aboard a parked big-rig that seems interesting there is going to be an altercation. Locomotive cabs are no different: They are off-limits to everyone except the government of railroad employees. Please be governed accordingly.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
I know of a couple of railfans who go ta cab ride on a major railroad (now a "fallen Flag") about 30 years ago, but they were invited aboard by the president of the railroad who spotted them taking pictures. They also had dinner with him in his private car..
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Not so many years ago an engineer might well invite you into the cab (or a conductor might well invite you into a caboose) -- sometimes for a brief ride -- but while it may still happen the rules against it are much more strictly enforced. And when it did happen fairly often it was still against the rules, and even then the etiquette was that you waited to be asked, and did not raise the issue yourself by begging or asking.
It also used to be pretty common to be invited up by tower operators, of which there are of course now precious few.
I feel lucky to have had those experiences but I do understand and fully agree with the reasons for the rules.
Dave Nelson
I remember photographing a Conrail train that was sitting on a siding waiting for orders. They were waiting for a couple trains to pass and were going to be a while. The crew saw me taking pix and asked me if I could go get them some coffee. When I brought the coffee back I was invited into the cab. It was a new (at the time) wide cab A dash-8 I believe, and I sat up there with the crew for over an hour. That doesn't happen much anymore these days. Times have changed. I haven't had a non-tourist railroad cab ride in about 20 years.
So it is totally fine if as long you are invited?
I Like Coal So it is totally fine if as long you are invited?
One other point: I have overheard fans openly talking about this or that cab ride (and even bragging about throttle time which is a pure fantasy). I tell them, "That didn't happen." When they protest I remind them that if they had done something like that they were trespassing and whoever let them do that would be in a whole lot of trouble if it ever came to light. "So what happened?" "Uh... nothing." Good answer. Railfan knows right answer when coached.
D.Carleton I Like Coal So it is totally fine if as long you are invited? It depends on the railroad but the answer is generally 'no.' One other point: I have overheard fans openly talking about this or that cab ride (and even bragging about throttle time which is a pure fantasy). I tell them, "That didn't happen." When they protest I remind them that if they had done something like that they were trespassing and whoever let them do that would be in a whole lot of trouble if it ever came to light. "So what happened?" "Uh... nothing." Good answer. Railfan knows right answer when coached.
It could have happened years ago...probably not today. I never got any throttle time, but as a kid back in the 70s and early 80s I was all over locomotives and rolling stock on a daily basis. The tougher rules of today make sense though. Times have changed, and it makes sense that only authorized personnel enter locomotive cabs just as only authorized personnel can enter an aircraft cockpit. Still...I miss those days when there seemed to be more trust in the world.
When I discuss cab rides and even throttle time that I have had (other then my being an operator at the Shore Line Trolley Museum) it is always about events 20 or more years ago, and no one would get into trouble. IN certain cases it is still possible to get cab rides, if you have a real professional reason for doing so and if the railroad will benefit by your doing so. Even then, permission will be in writing, with notes in writing to the train crew, and you will probably have to sign a release form to remove railroad liability for any scratch or tumble you might receive. BUT NEVER ENTER ANY RAILROAD PROPERTY UNLESS YOU ARE TICKET HOLDER BOARDING A PASSENGER TRAIN OR HAVE SPECIFIC PERMISSION TO DO SO!!!
Ulrich It could have happened years ago...probably not today. I never got any throttle time, but as a kid back in the 70s and early 80s I was all over locomotives and rolling stock on a daily basis. The tougher rules of today make sense though. Times have changed, and it makes sense that only authorized personnel enter locomotive cabs just as only authorized personnel can enter an aircraft cockpit. Still...I miss those days when there seemed to be more trust in the world.
I had several experiences in riding in the cabs of various locomotives--all in the late sixties and early seventies. My first one came as the result of my writing a division superintendent for specific permission, which was granted (and I had written the superintendent of another division of the same road for permission to ride over another stretch, and his response was that such permission was not granted). Two of my experiences came, en route, from my asking a conductor who knew me and from asking a flagman who knew me; in each instance the trainman took me up to the engine and asked the engineer if he would let me. I declined one invitation from an engineer whom I had never before seen; he was proud of the new motor (as he called it) he was running; I had walked up to the engine at a stop where much mail was handling, and I was not certain about getting back on the coach at a later stop. The last possible invitation came when I walked up to the engine, in Birmingham, when I was on my way north; the engineer, whom I did know, broached the subject of a ride to me and said that he would have liked for me to ride with him, but the company was really frowning on such.
Dave Klepper mentions his handling the throttle. I did have such experience, running a Geep around a wye; I knew the men in the crew--and one evening I rode with them on the forty-mile round trip which was their assignment.
All of this was a long time ago, and I would not dream of such now, even were I as young now as I was then.
Johnny
D.Carleton Ulrich It could have happened years ago...probably not today. I never got any throttle time, but as a kid back in the 70s and early 80s I was all over locomotives and rolling stock on a daily basis. The tougher rules of today make sense though. Times have changed, and it makes sense that only authorized personnel enter locomotive cabs just as only authorized personnel can enter an aircraft cockpit. Still...I miss those days when there seemed to be more trust in the world. It seems to me that back then when we were invited into the world of "real railroading" by well intentioned real railroaders it was with the view toward "this is going to be your job someday; take a good look around and get familiar with it." It wasn't a bad system of vocational introduction but too many fans took this as an open invitation to any and all cabs they came across.
Could be, although I don't think the railroaders of the day gave it too much thought i.e. these boys are going to be railroaders some day. It's just the way it was back then. I vividly recall one visit with my brother to CN in Richmond, QC. There was a brand new M420 in the yard, and we wanted to go have a look at it. There was an idling GP9 on a siding with the engineer in his seat, so I climbed up into the cab and asked him if we could go look at the M420. He said "sure, but don't touch anything". So that's what we did. We went into the unattended cab of an idling locomotive. The engineer in the GP9 didn't even watch over us. We saw his unit drift by as he was on his way to switch some cars. Later that day we went to CP's yard in Sherbrooke, QC..Same deal... one of Canada's only two GP30s was in town and, again, we got to climb into the unattended cab and look around. The engineer joked with us.. "you can take it to Lac Megantic if you want and I'll take the day off" is exactly what he said. That was in 1979. I still have pictures of me hanging off of the GP30. Oh yeah...I'll never forget this one... sometime in 1980 or 81 I was flying from Montreal to Calgary via Air Canada. It was a beautiful sunny day, and the flight deck door was wide open. I walked forward to have a look inside, and the captain invited me to have a seat in the vacant flight engineer's seat! Different times for sure. But obviously times have changed, and that can't happen today.
12 years ago today the world changed!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It sure did, and sadly not for the better.
The world changed in early January 1987 to
As others have said, never board a locomotive without being invited. It used to happen for me a good bit back in the late '80s to mid '90s. But most of the local folks that knew me & my family have retired & the folks that don't know you might not be so inclined to risk their job (& pension!). They could be fired for letting folks on a loco if other RR employees happen to see it. The rest of the crew has probably already been asked if they are OK with it. But signal maintainers or MOW workers might be around as well & could report such things.
Back in the mid to late '80s I got pretty regular invites onto locos or cabooses (these were things that used to be at the end of trains back in the day! ) when crews were tied up in a siding waiting for a meet or even when switching local wood yards. My only throttle time was around 1986. The engineer got the train going & then let me take the seat to move the levers that he told me to move. "One more notch on the throttle. All right, we've got a crossing coming up; blow the horn."
You can still find the occasional crew that will let you come aboard & chit chat for a while. Or if you're watching a train that's sitting in a siding, a crew member might come over & speak to you. Or a crew member on the ground might speak to you if your watching a switching operation. I think that the crews would be open to letting folks see the big trains, but as others have said, times have changed & this could cost them their job or at the very least get them a few days at home.
Someone mentioned airplanes. My dad worked for a parcel company that has their own airplanes. He used to make a run to the airport to get packages that came in on the plane. The pilots let us (Mom, Dad, & I) come to the airport & my Dad & I got on the plane & I sat in the cockpit & got my picture taken. But times have certainly changed & part of that was certainly 9/11. I remember going to the local airport (probably late '70s to early '80s) on Sunday afternoons & watching planes takeoff & land. The airport had almost like a balcony that was on the 2nd story. Since remodeling, they had a glassed in area with rocking chairs where you could sit & watch. But since 9/11, you can't even get past the gates to where the chairs were & the balcony used to be.
If you're lucky enough to get invited aboard a loco, ask before taking any pictures. And remember that YouTube dates & times matched up with loco unit numbers stenciled inside the loco can allow RR officials to match the crew. So you might want to use any pictures or videos for your own enjoyment & not post for everyone to see.
Good luck on getting an invite! Whenever I see a stopped train, I've always got my fingers crossed.
You could get in trouble and the crew could probably get in trouble if an FRA rep showed up. I build trains and I can't go on railroad property right now because my training and background check certificates are up. You have to have railroad approved training and background checks every year to be welcome on thier property, so be careful for your sake and don't cause any RR employees to risk loosing thier jobs.
One bright morning about 1977 or 78, I was a passenger on The Lake Shore Limited from Cleveland to NYGCT when we stopped to change crews and locomotives at Albany. I walked by the new locomotive, an FL9, and looked wistfully up at the engineer. He smiled. I went for it and asked him if he wanted any company up there. I was surprised by how lame I must have seemed to him, when, mirabile dictu, he said yes! So I clambered up the vertical ladder and introduced myself. I forget this gentleman's name, but he was senior engineer on this division and therefore he had what might be termed "front line manners." He was absolutely not afraid to have me there.
You can imagine my surprise and delight when he invited me to go the entire 140 miles to GCT in his cab with him. The fireman was non-plussed and it was obvious his opinion didn't count, anyway. I'll spare you the details except to say it was something no one would ever forget. I believe he let me pull the whistle cord a few times, esp when we were near Tivoli, where friends of mine lived and where I had watched trains before.
I didn't go all the way into GCT as I thought my porter and the conductor would think I wasn't on the train, so I reluctantly got off the FL9 at Croton-Harmon and re boarded my roomette for the ride into GCT.
I own a video tape from the 1980s called "Albany to Croton-Harmon" and it gives a good impression of what my ride was like that day.
I had to stand the whole way and enjoyed listening to the fireman call out each signal to the engineer, who then quizzed him on its meaning. Other than that, the fireman had nothing else to do that I saw, and I then absorbed a truth about railroading that I didn't want previously to understand.
I have been in cabs both before and after, but never for such a ride, esp 140 miles with Amtrak heritage cars behind us and with a great engineer.
By the way, someday I'll tell you about my great caboose ride on the Ontario Northland!
My first cab ride was in 1970. I persuaded my best friend to go with me down to the tracks after school to watch the local freight switch the packing plant on the Penn-Central branch in our town. The engine was PC 8164, a Baldwin S-12. The engineer asked us if we wanted to come up and ride while they shifted the reefers. We didn't have to think about it much! From that point on, through middle school and high school, I rode practically every time I showed up, even when Rip, the regular engineer bid off the job!
I'd ride my bike down to Pavonia yard and wander around, taking pictures, even rode with a hostler, once. No one ever said a word, except for friendly greetings. Rode the head end of Bud cars on the PRSL coming up from Cape May once. Saw 90mph on the speedometer, flying through Berlin, NJ that trip! The hoghead said he'd seen 115 on an E6s!
When I started driving, I drove over to East Burlington yard on the Bordentown secondary and was immediately asked if I wanted to ride with the crew on the A35 (I think) assignment. They didn't know me from Adam! My second ride on that job, the engineer had me running, spotting industries and shifting cuts of cars after awhile. They ran EMD SW-7 or 9s on that job as well as Alco RS-11s. There were no walky talkys, everything was by hand signal.
Back on the Pemberton Secondary, I remember meeting a Trainmaster a couple of times. He asked the crew "who's he?" they replied "he's OK" end of discussion!
I've been an engineer now for 34 years and it pains me to think of how much things have changed. To offer someone a cab ride is to truly put one's job on the line. Hell, the FRA would probably try to send me to jail!
Don't we all feel safer?
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