Flintlock76The crazy bugger pulled it off! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnSBw_sID2Y Steam rules!
Over 2 million views, almost 2,000 comments ... and no one has mentioned why he wants to prove the world is, or isn't flat, or why he's developing a rocket to do so, and what steps he'll have to take to obtain his proof.
And no one has mentioned this wasn't a "crash" landing in the usual sense, certainly for a man-capable rocket this size.
I'm still proceeding on the assumption this is catalyzed H2O2 ... you'd think someone would be interested enough to describe why he picked this particular engine system when he has soooooo much farther, higher, longer, and faster to go to do what he needs to.
But then again, this isn't about what he's doing, it's about making fun of an easy 'crank' target. Kinda like what happens in other places, sometimes...
Not sure how far we can 'stretch' legitimate railroad metaphors in this thread before it "outwears its welcome". Here we can say he's being more than a little 'railroaded' in this coverage, but that's not really enough to justify it under Kalmbach TOS. Better hope nobody blows the whistle (there's another flimsy reference)!
Steve Sweeney Please tell me what the railroad connection is on this thread?
Please tell me what the railroad connection is on this thread?
Do you sometimes feel like you're baby-sitting a bunch of kids?
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
The crazy bugger pulled it off!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnSBw_sID2Y
Steam rules!
And we should all thank God we live in a country that affords it's citizens the opportunity to do some really wild, uh, "stuff!"
(I would have used a stronger word than "stuff," but this is "Trains," not "Weird New Jersey" magazine!)
Flintlock76Well there you go. ALCO lives!
I'm sure Steve Sweeney will appreciate this recent news item about Crawler-Transporter 2 that prominently contains the words "American Locomotive Company". Note also the inspection covers in the foreground of the top picture...
CSSHEGEWISCH As far as diesels in space travel are concerned, keep in mind that every Saturn V and space shuttle began their trip on a crawler-transporter powered by a pair of 251 engines.
As far as diesels in space travel are concerned, keep in mind that every Saturn V and space shuttle began their trip on a crawler-transporter powered by a pair of 251 engines.
Well there you go. ALCO lives! And not just on the Delaware-Lackawanna!
(Railroad content. )
Electroliner 1935 Are not most aircraft carriers plane launchers STEAM powered? Seems like he's just axpanding that design.
Are not most aircraft carriers plane launchers STEAM powered? Seems like he's just axpanding that design.
Yes they are! First used during WW2 on the CVE's, the escort carriers, now steam catapults are standard equipment on all carriers.
Note last paragraph
The rocket appears to be mounted on a track. Therefore it is technically a steam locomotive.
In a similar vein, the mobile Canadarm2 is mounted on a track on the International Space Station. It therefore holds the distinction of being the first railroad in space.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Steve SweeneyPlease tell me what the railroad connection is on this thread?
It is on the Trains Magazine forum.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
He's likely using a technology to produce his propulsion steam that has been carefully developed and optimized to produce power steam with the 'correct' characteristics for use in piston-powered locomotives, at perhaps the absolute minimum emitted 'carbon footprint' (as measured at point of emission, not 'well to wheel') of nearly any practical locomotive fuel. With methanol and H202 as fuel, the 'net result' is around 11 molecules of steam at "normal" reciprocating-locomotive superheat per carbon atom in fuel, and almost no incidental 'losses' in the reactions producing steam generation from the liquid, pumpable precursors.
The problem, of course, is that the amount of H2O2 needed to make 'comparable' power for, say, the equivalent of a 4400hp diesel-electric burning a tankful of good biodiesel or blend can be diverted to make literally tons of TATP, a terrorist liquid explosive notorious because it is a 'state explosive'. While there are some supposedly workable detection technologies for TATP even in sealed containers (e.g. ICx Nomadics) I don't think it makes that much sense to make the means to produce it by the kiloton relatively easily...
Steam.. the science of steam, how it works and how fascinated we are with it.
Steam - that powered railroads for over a century.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Steve SweeneyDigital Editor, Hobby
MiningmanWould like to see this guy get into a 'discussion' with you Overmod. He states he does not believe in science, that it's the same as science fiction.
That he is conducting the experiment to go up to 'see for himself' puts him essentially in the ranks of the true scientists. Proof you can re-create for yourself is part of the confirmation of a theory, and if (for any reason or no reason) he thinks that a round Earth is part of a conspiracy or whatever, he is right to check the answer for himself, whether or not he 'starts out' believing (as a 'null hypothesis') it is round, flat, or weirdly pear-shaped.
There is a common story in HPS about Leonardo da Vinci espousing Aristotelian scholasticism as a youth of about 18. He apparently got into an argument with a fellow student about whether things accelerated under the influence of gravity or fell with constant speed (as Aristotle claimed). Leonardo actually won the argument through logic, but the defeated fellow went away mumbling 'if you actually did the experiment you'd see I was right' and, for some reason, Leonardo went to check. Of course you know what he observed, and he wrote 'if I could not trust Aristotle on this point, I could not trust him on any other, and I would have to devote my life to testing and confirming every point. Which in a sense he did.
The important thing is not to design the experiment so it confirms what you think you know. Aristotle hypothesized that there were only three colors, with all the others being admixtures. He noticed that sprays of water produced rainbows which separated sunlight into colors, carefully designed different types of spray with different droplet sizes, ran careful investigations, and surprise! observed ... three colors. Because that's what he expected to see.
Note that if he goes straight up by rocket and then re-enters straight down, he won't be able to distinguish the Earth as a spheroid. He will need some combination of time and lateral motion, so he can distinguish the 'curve' of the Earth as constant as he sees the features on the surface rotate with that curve. That's the proof, not that 'it looks like a ball from space'. Interesting that this does not seem to been used in any of the snarky arguments either for or against a spherical rotating Earth.
Give me time and I will figure out some way to put an obligatory comment with the word 'railroad' in this post. Oh wait... I just did.
Would like to see this guy get into a 'discussion' with you Overmod. He states he does not believe in science, that it's the same as science fiction.
well whatever, I do wish him safety, luck and hope he gets an answer to satisfy himself. Of course a Frisbee is curved! Interesting choice on his part, hes always going to see a Frisbee.
http://voyagesextraordinaires.blogspot.com/2016/11/charles-golightly-and-his-steam-rocket.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omWRxonewL4&t=3m42s
Flintlock76Well there you go! Steam rules, baby!
How quickly you all seem to have forgotten the Skycycle X-2...
No-ones ever gonna build a diesel-powered rocket!
... or the Volksrocket X-3...
Seriously, I hope his life insurance is paid up.
Didn't it say he's only getting something like 1500' altitude* out of this prototype? Suspect he is riding the thing as a stunt, not any kind of effort to actually reach space in the thing, rather than the tongue-in-cheek 'toward space' in the coverage.
This is not like the Komet 163 that liked to detonate for what seemed 'any reason and no reason' -- although I strongly suspect he's using catalytic decomposition of concentrated H2O2 as at least a significant part of his engine cycle and if he is not reasonably careful in his 'homemade' fuel refining he is likely to encounter some interesting, theoretically amusing but NOT if you are riding nearby, characteristics of high-concentration peroxide. There is a reason we kept the Oxford-cycle concentration at around 30% and used a co-fuel for the railroad project (although I grant you the design 'criterion' was for use in engines at some nominal degree of superheat like 850 degrees F as "throttled")
I do think he would do better to study Truax a bit better to see what is possible for 'homemade' builders to achieve, although I suspect his 'rockoon' approach still remains the closest he is likely to get to his stated objective. (I am tempted to point out that air launch of the 'rockoon', say from an external package at what is now typical bizjet achievable altitude, might be still better...)
You know, there was a really well done sci-fi movie back in the 50's called "Destination Moon"...
It will pay you to go back and look at this. Idea and script consultation by Heinlein, paintings by Chesley Bonestell, careful use of reasonably good engineering to make the thing work. This was the same Pal who did When Worlds Collide, another SF staple, just a year later, and then his famous adaptation of War of the Worlds a couple of years later; I believe this significantly contributed to mainstream interest in science fiction in the mid-Fifties.
... and if I remember correctly the rocket in the film was steam-powered, a nuclear reactor was used as part of the steam generation system.
You remember correctly. Note that part of the premise, that 'atomic power' could provide high Isp, is reasonable physics but as things turned out remarkably impossible engineering. In this movie it was also important (for plot reasons) for enemies of the rocket project to make false claims about radioactive danger from the 'water' exhaust that could be demostrably disproved by the actual launch ... something I doubt would actually have ensued if a NSSS with adequate pad thrust for vertical launch and insertion were actually fired... Ah, to be in those heady days of nuclear rocket expectation, or power 'too cheap to meter' again! The Walker Cislers of today don't seem to be as capable...
A good nuclear rocket using water as working ejection mass would heat it far beyond dissociation. perhaps all the way up to ionized plasma, using perhaps prompt nuclear release; it might then charge-separate the atoms, electrically accelerate them to produce a resultant reaction thrust, then recombine them chemically as in the atomic-hydrogen (this is the chemical sense, H and not H2) combustion reaction which as I recall has one of the highest nominal Isps. Of course it is easy to do this in a movie with a little well-chosen patter and a little more CGI than to implement it all with crowdfunded contrarian contributions...
Meters. Not feet. Ask certain Mars-landing planners if they now think this is a significant distinction.... but the point is the same; he's ridiculously far even from getting out of the troposphere, let alone where he'll see incontrovertible truth of curvature ... or get a dwell time long enough to observe measurable rotation at given observed curvature, which is the actual criterion necessary to shut English-twit variety of flat-earthers up incontrovertibly by their own standards.
There is a reason why orbital trajectories curve east rather than blasting 'straight up' (it is much the same reason that rockoons originally had limited application in the days that 'rockets' were sounding rockets and not ballistic delivery vehicles and whatnot) and it could be argued that even the launch methods useful for EKVs won't give him the combination of atmosphere, rotational arc and dwell he will want.
Awwww man, I MISS the "Mythbusters!"
Mythbusters test a prototype!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bU-I2ZiML0
Ah, RP-1's not diesel, it's a highly refined form of kerosene.
Which means it should work just fine in steam-era lanterns as well.
Back to Rocket Man...
I wonder how he can tell if there's enough water over the crown sheet?
And you know something? I hope the crazy guy pulls it off!
Flintlock76 Well there you go! Steam rules, baby! No-ones ever gonna build a diesel-powered rocket!
Well there you go! Steam rules, baby! No-ones ever gonna build a diesel-powered rocket!
Ever hear of RP-1? Been in use since the 1950's.
OTOH, Space Shuttle SSME's and the engines for the Delta IV are LH2 and LOX fed, so they effectively are steam powered.
Miningman Is this the ultimate in steam power?
Is this the ultimate in steam power?
I don't think so, I bet it will be a shop queen.
Takes forever to build, and requires significant structural repairs after each use. Not great by locomotive standards.
How would you calculate its starting tractive effort?
Just being honest, but during all those months that I ignored the "Classic Warbirds" thread, I did so because I suspected it might be some dry debate on "Barfbonnet vs Grinstein" or which locomotive model looked best wearing a warbonnet.
It does have rails!
Is this the ultimate in steam power? Guess we will know soon enough if he's successful.
Flintlock76Bending over backwards to keep this "rail-related," I may need help!
I'm not sure what we're looking at in that picture, but is the rocket launched from rails?
charlie hebdo So the Warbird thread was locked for being off-topic? And this thread?
So the Warbird thread was locked for being off-topic?
And this thread?
I guess the railroad connection comes from the rocket being steam-powered?
I wonder if it has a whistle? Two sharp blasts before take-off? Three before he puts in in reverse?
The photo doesn't show too much, but I don't see a "Camelback" type cab, so I guess it's fueled with bituminous coal.
Bending over backwards to keep this "rail-related," I may need help!
Lima design no doubt! Must have twin stokers as no mention of Firemen.
I have an Uncie like this, rich, has thousand acre hobby farm in Alberta. Will argue with you until blue in the face that the earth is flat. Gets worse, he was a pilot!
Flintlock76 Well there you go! Steam rules, baby! No-ones ever gonna build a diesel-powered rocket! Seriously, I hope his life insurance is paid up. You know, there was a really well done sci-fi movie back in the 50's called "Destination Moon," and if I remember correctly the rocket in the film was steam-powered, a nuclear reactor was used as part of the steam gneration system. I could be wrong though, it's been years since I've seen it.
You know, there was a really well done sci-fi movie back in the 50's called "Destination Moon," and if I remember correctly the rocket in the film was steam-powered, a nuclear reactor was used as part of the steam gneration system. I could be wrong though, it's been years since I've seen it.
I think "Destination Moon" was on one of the old movie channels a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't watch it... If they repeat it, I will be sure to watch it.
But I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED your comment about a Diesel-powered rocket. No way that'll ever work, but I have seen photos of the results of Dismals that attempted to launch a piston or two into orbit.
As for life insurance... I mean no insult to any family he has, but no one should benefit from his stupidity.
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