That was too cool for words!
Steam rules!
We shouldn't forget that the same concept was successful there in 2016.
Overmod"Steam rockets" are a thing; albeit not always a thing that works well (remember Evel Knievel at the Snake River Canyon)
IIRC the big problem with the Snake River jump was that the parachute that was supposed to be opened when the rocket reached it's peak height deployed basically on the launch pad, slowing the ascent of the rocket and causing it to peak at a much lower altitude than necessary to make it to the other side.
BaltACDMythbusters episode told any 'thinking' human being what they needed to know about a steam powered 'rocket'.
To be honest, that's a completely different 'thing'.
To my knowledge he wasn't using his 'Craigslist' water heater as a steam generator -- he was using it as a storage tank for his (catalyzed monopropropellant) hydrogen peroxide. That's a whole 'nother set of thermodynamics about how to make pressure for impulse.
"Steam rockets" are a thing; albeit not always a thing that works well (remember Evel Knievel at the Snake River Canyon) but one that can produce reasonable Isp for not too much complicated cost. I suspect he scaled the design up to the fuel mass he thought he'd need without thinking too carefully about actual achievable efficiency, judging by how high he actually got in his testing. That is, assuming he actually used a reasonable amount of rocket science in his detail design...
Mythbusters episode told any 'thinking' human being what they needed to know about a steam powered 'rocket'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bU-I2ZiML0
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CSSHEGEWISCHNow did this joker really believe in a flat earth or was it part of a publicity stunt for his rocket launch?
Everyone now apparently has their own take on developing the 'myth' and it will probably be impossible to discern any kind of 'truth' in no more than a few more weeks.
The impression I had was that he wanted to 'prove or disprove' the flat-Earth model by seeing with his own eyes from an altitude he himself could confirm as real. That makes a good Leonardo-esque story ... but there are a number of sources who say now that this was just a 'cover story' or excuse for building moar rockets with moar power.
The real problem here is that, of course, there's no way he'd come within an order of magnitude of the altitude he announced with any propellant system he ever considered -- let alone a construction that didn't involve, say, using a water heater for his monopropellant. So I really don't know what he thought was 'meaningful' about it, in meaningful terms.
It all makes sence that only the military and those sworn to a secret masonic oath can go into space. That Christa McAuliffe who was a teacher could have blown the big lie all along
Now did this joker really believe in a flat earth or was it part of a publicity stunt for his rocket launch? It's sad that he needed these stunts to fulfill his need for a meaningful life.
What a fine obituary!
The world would be a poorer place ideed if it didn't have room for lovable eccentrics like Mad Mike and their off-the-wall projects.
I thought non-conformity was supposed to be a good thing, provided no-one besides the non-conformist was affected?
We have our 2020 Darwin Award winner...
It looked like his parachute came out immediately after the launch.
York1 John
The early reports suggest that this character ran into similar problems as Evel Knievel did when he tried to clear the Snake River Canyon.
That's too bad, it's a poorer world without a few eccentrics in it.
Beats wasting away in a nursing home.
Mad Mike ... sad news...he's gone.
Daredevil ‘Mad’ Michael Hughes poses in front of his homemade, steam-powered rocket, ahead of a planned launch on August 11, 2019. (Source: Popculture PR
charlie hebdo But many problems. A problem with all of these was the complex designs, prone to teeting problems and mechanical breakdowns with difficult repairs. Hence many were abandondoned in the field for that reason, not battle damage. Another was high cost and long manufacturing times so that relatively few were operational. A third was their heavy weights and underpowering, so that they were slow movers, somewhat akin to Mallets: https://images.app.goo.gl/dgS46zWGJbZjeuV46
But many problems. A problem with all of these was the complex designs, prone to teeting problems and mechanical breakdowns with difficult repairs. Hence many were abandondoned in the field for that reason, not battle damage. Another was high cost and long manufacturing times so that relatively few were operational. A third was their heavy weights and underpowering, so that they were slow movers, somewhat akin to Mallets:
https://images.app.goo.gl/dgS46zWGJbZjeuV46
I'm reminded of something I read about Colonel Creighton Abrams, the distinguished armor commander from WW2.
Post war, he was asked what he thought would be an ideal battle tank. Know what he said?
"Gimme a King Tiger that works!
While we're on the subject of Tigers, King Tigers, Jagdtigers, and "88's" let me recommend an oustanding YouTube channel called "Mark Felton Productions."
Dr. Felton is an English historian who puts out some fascinating videos, mostly on World War Two but covering other 20th Century conflicts as well. I'll tell you, Dr. Felton gets more done in ten minutes or less than a lot of History Channel documentarys do in an hour! And the little-know stories he discovers are just amazing! Here's the link, and I'm sure you'll find Dr. Felton as enjoyable as I do.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfCKvREB11-fxyotS1ONgww
The biggest problem a steam powered rocket would have to reach the Karman line (100 km altitude) is simply packing enough power to get to that altitude. Steam is a very heavy 'rocket fuel' with relatively low thrust and low specific impulse (sort of a fuel efficiency measure for a rocket). While a suborbital hop needs less power than a full orbital insertion; its still a hefy power requirment. The only space craft that have ever really been designed for those types of flights (excluding aborted orbital launches such as Soyuz 18a) are the X-15, Mercury-Redstone, SpaceShipOne and SpaceShipTwo, and the New Shepard. Of those, only New Shepard and Mercury-Redstone were ground launched, on chemical fueled rockets obviously much larger than this guy's steam powered rocket thing. While the X-15 and SpaceShip series is closer in size to the steam rocket, they require an airplane to lift them to high altitude prior to launching. Of course the orbital class rockets (Soyuz, Saturn IB and V, Titan, Falcon 9, Space Shuttle, SLS, Starship, etc...) are much much much larger than the smaller suborbital classes. The fact this guy's launches have yet to reach even the cruising speed of many modern jet airliners is probably proof of steam's poor attributes for rocket fuel. The reason a steam-nuclear rocket is appeal for space flight is its potential in space flight with high efficiency in the atmosphere-free and low gravity environments of deep space. However to escape Earth's gravity and atmosphere requires heavy lift, hence why any proposed steam-nuclear design would be an upper stage that wouldn't start burning until high into space and free of the atmosphere. Its why engines such as Ion Drives are popular on satellites, but not used in ground based craft, they just simply don't work in atmosphere. The rocket equation is a harsh tyrant, whose's rules over spaceflight have been proven time and time again.Lastly, if you want to prove the earth is round with your own eyes... there are so many cheaper ways to do it than attempting a rocket launch. The Greeks proved it with a stick and its shadows in the sun combined with basic trig. In the modern day one can easily use telescopes to track the orbital motion of satellites, whose orbital mechanics would simply stop working if they weren't going around a spherical earth. Or if he's dead set on the rocket idea, just save up a large wad of cash and spend it on pre-reserving a flight on SpaceShipTwo or New Shepard once those start flying tourists. Although to tie it back into steam trains... if I had the wad of cash needed to book a flight on SpaceShipTwo or New Shepard, frankly I could think of many heritage railroads that could use such a large donation in their favor...
But many problems. A problem with all of these was the complex designs, prone to teething problems and mechanical breakdowns with difficult repairs. Hence many were abandondoned in the field for that reason, not battle damage. Another was high cost and long manufacturing times so that relatively few were operational. A third was their heavy weights and underpowering, so that they were slow movers, somewhat akin to Mallets:
I was not confounding anything. So, for clarity:
The Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf. E (Tiger I) mounted an 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56.
The Pzkw VI Ausf. B (Tiger II or King Tiger) mounted an 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 cannon.
Its chassis was used for the Jagdtiger (Panzerjäger Tiger Ausf B) tank destroyer, which mounted a larger 12.8 cm Pak 44 L/55 [yes!] anti tank cannon.
The Jagdpanther (Sd.Kfz 173) tank destroyer mounted an 8.8 cm Pak 43/3 (similar to the gun on the Tiger II) or the 8.8 cm Pak 43/4 L71. I hope that clarifies the differences.
You did. Look at your post.
charlie hebdoWe were discussing the various 88s, such soon a Tiger or as freestanding anti-tank guns.
You're mixing KwK with PaK (which is not 'wrong' but if you're going to stickle, sticle correctly), and the 'equivalent' to the PaK 43 was on the Tiger II, not the Tiger.
And the sources I have indicate that yes, this KwK 43 was the gun used on many, if not most, of the Jagdpanzers as built. I will look more carefully into this.
The Jagdtiger mounted a 128 mm.
But when did anyone say 'Jagdtiger'?
[/quote]
We were discussing the various 88s, such soon a Tiger or as freestanding anti-tank guns. The Jagdtiger mounted a 128 mm.
Jagdtiger, not Tiger. And no, you wouldn't have the chance.
The appropriate technology didn't come along until many decades later, anyway: it postdates the Vietnam War efforts into battlefield sensors.
Nowadays the situation is a bit different: hunkered-down troops with PCM would take the tank out long before its crew could get that long gun tube to bear and settle. If there is sufficient cover.
Interesting that we now have faster guns, and more accurate ones, but they depend on expensive propellants and even more expensive terminal guidance to replace what a PaK 43 does inherently.
If you were in a Sherman, aka, a Ronson or Tommycooker, within a mile of a Tiger, it's doubtful you would have time to triangulate and be close enough to get in a side shot to penetrate before you were a goner.
[duplicate]
charlie hebdoGiven it was able to be effective at over 35,000 feet, I would think its velocity must have maintained pretty well.
That, and that in the ways it was usually used as a 'Panzerabwehrkanone', it was even more preternaturally lethal. Essentially flat to 2 miles, which is about the maximum range I think non-spotted tank duels would be fought, with up to 8lb practical warload.
The difference is (as usual with the British and Americans missing the train for a while) the German work into careful desensitizing and other design of things like HEAT payload to be accelerated at the necessary rate and survive the incident heating. The "air" dynamite guns were designed neither to shock nor heat stuff like blasting gelatin until impact on the target ... and somewhat minimize forces on the shell even then.
Something I don't know, though, is whether the PaK guns provide enough blast, smoke, directionally-identifiable shock and supersonic trace to permit easy identification and triangulation of their presence and then their position. An advantage of the dynamite guns, mentioned fairly often in accounts of them, was their almost inaudible cough (followed by the terror roar of the charge going off) and high-lob trajectory that would be difficult to trace from the ground (particularly if the shell were painted to be low-visible against ambient skylight).
As they say, the proof is in the pudding. The 8.8 cm Pak 36 - 41s were some of the finest cannons ever produced in large numbers. Given it was able to be effective at over 35,000 feet, I would think its velocity must have maintained pretty well.
charlie hebdoWhat sort of exit muzzle velocity did these devices have, compared to Pak 43 8.8 cm's 3400-3700 ft/sec?
Took me a little digging to get substantiable numbers. The answer of course is 'piss-poor' but there is some more to the story.
Hansen's article in Technology and Culture (1984) indicates that muzzle velocity for a Zelinsky gun (at 2000psi supply) was 1400f/s. This resulted in very high angles being needed for ranging, and a practical range of not more than about 3 miles. It did not help that the devices were not rifled and it does not appear that any secondary guidance means, even extensible vanes, were tried.
This muzzle velocity is slightly incomparable with the PaK because it is the result of a long, slow acceleration with assumed near-constant driving pressure. I do not know the peak pressure behind the shell in that weapon but presume it is well in excess of 54kpsi; this will produce a quick initial acceleration but the rate of change will be relatively large as the gas space extends and various losses remove heat from the gas. Compare this with the German multistage pipe gun (which was one of the bases for Bull's designs) where new hot gas was periodically introduced at high pressure close behind the base of the accelerating projectile independent of its accrued speed. That will get you some interesting muzzle velocities, well up into the range necessary for FOBS or even full LEO velocities.
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