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Corroded UP 844

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  • Member since
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  • From: Henrico, VA
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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, June 8, 2014 4:05 PM

In steam days 'roads did have water treatment facilities, some more so than others.  I remember reading an article in "Classic Trains"  where the fireman (don't remember which 'road) tossed a baseball-sized ball of treatment chemical in the tank, no other treatment was apparantly necessary.

Of course there was the old rule-of-thumb, "If you wouldn't drink it, don't put it in the tank!"

I wonder if the local water the UP uses has flouride in it so the locomotive doesn't get cavities?

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  • From: Toronto, Canada
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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, June 8, 2014 2:53 PM

I am only able to read just so much on that other website without being a paid member so I  can only guess here. I'm not a pool expert but I would think that a pool chemical company would have a product to reduce scale in the lines, filters, valves and so forth depending on the water hardness in a given area.

What Empire Builder wrote does make sense. Might have been a mistake to use municipal water and add the wrong water treatment chemicals. Most boilers that I look at, which are stationary, the make-up water is municipal and has whatever chemicals in it and as far as I know most municipal water has chlorine. So, chemicals would be sold to the customer to counteract any affects of chlorine. The thing is, the water only comes from one source, not several as used for locomotives today such as fire departments and so forth. In steam days, didn't the water towers have some sort of treatment facility? In Germany, the water tanks of the locomotives all have a sign with a skull and cross bones saying 'Not drinking water!" (Kein Trinkwasser!)

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Sunday, June 8, 2014 2:49 PM

Yes, I'll bet the boiler was safe to swim in. If the goal was bacteria free locomotive boiler I'll bet they came close

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, June 8, 2014 1:54 PM

Uh, 'scuse my lack of experience, but aren't pool treatment chemicals supposed to kill germs, not scale?

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, June 8, 2014 10:38 AM

From what I can see of the tubes and from reading the entries, it appears that there may have been excess oxygen in the feed water (brown spots and blisters under which are pits in the tubes) and an acid wash might have been done. An acid wash is usually a last resort type of thing, to be avoided if other methods are available to remove heavy buildups of hard scale. Soft water will help break scale loose but if it's very heavy than an acid wash can be done. From what I can see, the scale buildup was not that heavy. I could be wrong. From what they said, the chemicals came from a "swimming pool" company? Maybe they came from a chemical supplier who sells chemicals for both boilers and pools? It's not uncommon.

For any boiler the requirements are: soft water to give correct Ph and an oxygen scavenger (A sulfite, similar to what is in wine) and a RO filter if one is available. Also proper blowdown. Any boiler that has no returns of it's water, the life of a tube is generally pretty short and it's accepted as such. In a stationary or marine boiler where you get all or most of the returns, the tube life can be 30 years or more. Usually the tube is the part that is most affected, the shell will survive a lot longer than the tube.

anyway, that is my best guess about the 844s boiler tubes. A close examination would be in order. Anybody want to pay my way out there? Thanks!

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Sunday, June 8, 2014 10:21 AM

blue streak 1

BaltACD

One of the significant costs of steam in it's day was water treatment, this situation is evidence of why.

 

So what do today's steam boiler experts use as water treatment if any ?.  The electric power steam  generating plants might give us an answer ?

 

I'm betting they don't use cheap pool chemicals.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, June 8, 2014 10:01 AM

BaltACD

One of the significant costs of steam in it's day was water treatment, this situation is evidence of why.

 

So what do today's steam boiler experts use as water treatment if any ?.  The electric power steam  generating plants might give us an answer ?

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  • From: US
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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, June 8, 2014 9:14 AM

One of the significant costs of steam in it's day was water treatment, this situation is evidence of why.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Sunday, June 8, 2014 8:20 AM

It looks to me like using pool chemicals in a high pressure boiler was a serious lapse in judgment. They are meant to do two different things . I hope the boiler is not ruined and that they gave it a good boiler wash to remove the pool chemicals.  Sad, very sad.

The pictures don't look good, I hope the ultrasound shows little damage to boiler thickness and that its not pitted too badly. I wouldn't hold your breath though.

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  • From: Roanoke, VA
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Corroded UP 844
Posted by BigJim on Sunday, June 8, 2014 7:57 AM

Does anyone here have accurate information about what is going on with UP 844? The following doesn't paint a very pretty picture for 844 or the UP steam program.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3426166

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