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N&W Steam Development

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Posted by friend611 on Friday, November 8, 2013 8:08 PM
2156 is indeed the engine in St. Louis. As to what is going on, I am waiting for some kind of official announcement before I say anything more. The last thing I want is to be credited with an unfounded rumor.
lois
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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, November 8, 2013 10:24 PM

We will be waiting with anticipation... 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 9, 2013 8:45 AM

I suspect we may be looking at a possible homecoming to Roanoke for the locomotive.  After all, the N&W has no connection with St. Louis and the museum there may be willing to give it up to a good home.  I'm sure they can use the space, and it's one less big machine to take care of.

Just a guess on my part. 

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Posted by friend611 on Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:50 PM
No reports yet on 2156. Whatever is going on with this locomotive is certainly top secret.
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Posted by BigJim on Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:42 PM

Lois,

Loose lips sink ships!

.

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Posted by friend611 on Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:58 PM
That is possibly the reason why things are kept so quiet.
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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:09 PM

Gee, I don't know. Is there a U-boat lurking somewhere between Saint Louis and Roanoke?

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:19 PM

There has to be an old GE somewhere near there, if not a U-boat* at least a -7 series...Stick out tongue

*Nickname for the GE Universal series, i.e. the U25B, for all you die hard steam fans...

In all seriousness, keep us posted on the Y6!

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Posted by friend611 on Thursday, December 5, 2013 4:34 PM
At present, there is no news on the 2156. Either the matter is being kept super-secret, or 'some lines have been crossed' and the source put out misleading information. I hope that this is not the case, as I do not like to give news unless it is confirmed, for that very reason. And no confirmation has yet been received, only silence. On another subject, I have been studying valve gear for a steam technical article for my newsletter, J Notes, which I produce for my Facebook discussion group, the Friends of the 611. I have been noting how Baker valve gear replaced the original valve gear on older N&W steam engines, and that the original Stephenson valve gear and slide valves were retained on the two remaining G1 2-8-0's and W6 0-8-0T tank engines. Both G1's still exist- 6 at the Virginia Museum of Transportation and 7 at a city park in Bluefield,WV. The W6's were not as fortunate; there are no survivors. But an earlier W-class engine, 917, was one of the "Lost Engines of Roanoke." What valve gear it has now I don't know, but it originally had Stephenson.
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Posted by traininsane on Friday, December 6, 2013 2:19 AM

I live in Fort Wayne Indiana and have heard that the S1 ran through ft wayne from crestline I'm guessing that this is the area of the prr 's racetrack is this true.I'm new around here and have been trying to learn about our local railroad history since I have gotten involved with the NKP765 berkshire hear in the Fort. This is quite the journey, and I'm loving it. So any help I can get would be great.

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Posted by friend611 on Friday, December 6, 2013 11:17 PM
The Pennsy "racetrack" that J 610 was tested on was that portion of the PRR line from Crestline to Chicago. I am not too familiar with the railroads in the area, but do know that the Pennsy ran through Fort Wayne, as well as the Nickel Plate. The Pennsy east-west line through Fort Wayne may well be the racetrack in question though I am unable to confirm it as none of the maps available to me at present include Crestline.
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Posted by Overmod on Friday, December 6, 2013 11:40 PM

See the PRR system map on pp.8-9 of Staufer's Pennsy Power.  Fort Wayne was well-known to be on the 'racetrack'.  Crestline is very small on a shipper's map -- most of its importance was to the internal workings of the PRR. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, December 7, 2013 2:53 PM

traininsane

I live in Fort Wayne Indiana and have heard that the S1 ran through ft wayne from crestline I'm guessing that this is the area of the prr 's racetrack is this true.I'm new around here and have been trying to learn about our local railroad history since I have gotten involved with the NKP765 berkshire hear in the Fort. This is quite the journey, and I'm loving it. So any help I can get would be great.

I'll tell you what, if you "Google" search  the Pennsy S1, what our frequent poster and commentator Juniatha calls "Long Tall Sally-1"  you'll find a whole cornucopia of information on that fascinating locomotive.  That's if you haven't done so already.

Another of our frequent posters daveklepper actually saw the S1 at the 1939-1940 Worlds Fair in New York, he was seven years old at the time and never forgot it.  The impression he gave me was that his parents had a hard time dragging him away from it, and the "Americas Railroads" exhibit as well.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 8, 2013 8:58 AM

Not only did I see it, but both in 1939 and in 1940 it was not a static display.   Its boilder made steam, the steam was admitted to the cylinders, all four, the rods went back and, the driving wheels revolved, since the drivers were located on rollers as used in locomotive test plants.   My understanding was that when not at the NY Worlds Fair, she was used between Crestline and Chicago until war made maintenance of one of a kind impractical, and she was sidelined.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, December 8, 2013 9:24 AM

Hi Dave!

You know, it's interesting how kids can come away with different impressions of things.  As you know, my mother being a New York City girl was also at the '39 Worlds Fair, 11 years old at the time.  She wasn't impressed with the "American Railroads" exhibit, but absolutely LOVED the GM exhibit, and remembers it well to this day.

She also wishes she'd kept all the hand-out stuff she got at the Fair.  "I had more crap than I knew what to do with!"  she says, and threw it all out years ago.  "Who knew the stuff would be worth money now?"  she says.  Who knew indeed?

Wayne

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:30 PM

Well, the GM exhibit had a model world of tomorrow that was pretty impressive, with of course superhighways going everywhere, but with a minor model railroad built in as well.   They also had an E3 A unit with the side panels replaced by glass so you could see the diesel and generator and other equipment.  Spottlessly clean and painted to differentiate the equipment.  And cars of the future, of course.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:09 PM

Hi Dave!

Yeah, Mom's still plenty PO'd that the "World of Tomorrow" she saw in the GM pavilion hasn't shown up yet.  Or if it has, it sure doesn't look like what they promised.

My father didn't make it to the World's Fair at all, but what he's really upset about is missing Lou Gehrigs farewell, you know the "..luckiest man on the face of the Earth..."  speech.  As Dad told me he was going to play baseball himself that day and, well, you didn't watch someone else do something you had the chance to do yourself.  He regrets the choice to this day.

He DID see Babe Ruth's last appearance at Yankee Stadium in 1948, he wasn't going to miss THAT one!  But you know, in the end he was sorry he went.  The Babe wasn't "The Babe" anymore, Dad said it was like watching a ghost.  Everyone in the seats around him was weeping.  Hard day for all.

Wayne

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:22 AM

My grade school and prep school, Columbia Grammer, generally took us to the Polo Grounds for Giant's games, even though the Yankees usually did better in the American League than the Giants in the National.  I guess group tickets for children were easier to come by for the Giants.   So I missed out on Babe Ruth.  I did hear Yankees games on the radio, and my reward for being a Yankee fan and attending games later when I could afford it was to get a contract to design a new sound system for the stadium which lasted about 1974-1992, when replaced by one better adabted to the rock and roll and heavy metal concerts that often took place.   Not before we had supervised sound for the Pope's Mass, however.  The trips to Polo Grounds used the Ninth Avenue Elevated, a treat in itself, until we had to switch to the CC local on Central Park W. when June 1940 came with transit unification and the end of that elevated line.

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Posted by BigJim on Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:45 PM

Firelock76
Yeah, Mom's still plenty PO'd


Did she see the N&W Class A? 

.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, December 11, 2013 5:07 PM

If there was a Class A at the World's Fair Mom didn't mention it.  As I said, the "America's Railroads" exhibit didn't do anything for her.

She DID see the "20th Century Limited"  at Grand Central Terminal on a number of occasions.  As a matter of fact, Mom says that GCT was quite a show in itself, and a great place for spotting the celebrities of the time.  She said growing up in New York City in the '30s and '40s was the best, lots of fun things do do, and best of all a lot were free.

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Posted by friend611 on Wednesday, December 11, 2013 9:49 PM
I hate to break up the conversation, but the thread is drifting slightly off subject. I would like to begin a discussion on why N&W favored Baker valve gear.
lois
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:00 PM

I'd think the big reason is likely to be relative ease of maintenance.  All the connections were pin-jointed and those joints could easily be given roller or needle bearings, easy to lubricate and long-lasting.  Extra mass of the frame and supports (the reverse on Walschaerts could be frame-mounted away from the hanger, not so with Baker) not a problem on one of the modern N&W classes.

There is some argument that Baker when overloaded is more prone to fail 'laterally'; there certainly were some problems on N&W, on the A class in particular, with the gear 'unraveling' (to use Ed King's poetic term) if allowed too far down in the corner at speed.  Dave Stephenson could be the one to tell us where the susceptible components were found to be...

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 12, 2013 3:00 AM

There was no Mallet or articulated loco at the '39-'40 WH in my my memory.   The S-1 was the only biggy.

I guess the N&W and C&O were too busy making money "hauling coal downhill." 

The Flying Scotsman, complete train was at the British exhibition.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 12, 2013 7:04 AM

daveklepper
There was no Mallet or articulated loco at the '39-'40 WH in my my memory.

I believe the N&W sent a class A, and 'dressed it up' a bit.  I think there's a picture in Ed King's book.  But they didn't make a big 'production' out of it (perhaps they should have tried... the locomotive that Superman is more powerful than in the early Max Fleischer cartoons is, I think, recognizable as an A...)

Dave, don't you mean Coronation Scot?  There is some difference there...  ;0}

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, December 12, 2013 7:28 AM

My experience with "more powerful than a locomotive" is based on the syndicated TV series of the late 1950's, which showed film clips of a GS-4 or SP E7A's.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, December 12, 2013 10:10 AM

Overmod

I'd think the big reason is likely to be relative ease of maintenance.  All the connections were pin-jointed and those joints could easily be given roller or needle bearings, easy to lubricate and long-lasting.  Extra mass of the frame and supports (the reverse on Walschaerts could be frame-mounted away from the hanger, not so with Baker) not a problem on one of the modern N&W classes.

There is some argument that Baker when overloaded is more prone to fail 'laterally'; there certainly were some problems on N&W, on the A class in particular, with the gear 'unraveling' (to use Ed King's poetic term) if allowed too far down in the corner at speed.  Dave Stephenson could be the one to tell us where the susceptible components were found to be...

Locomotive Up To Date mentions the lack of sliding friction as being an improvement over valve gear that used a link and block. 

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 12, 2013 11:21 AM

I guess it was the Coronation Scott.   The Flying Scotsman was the loco that toured the USA under its own steam.  Memory does pull tricks, on occasion.  I just don't remeber the N&W A, and I am pretty certain it would have made a deep impression if I had seen it.  My parents had hired a workman and his wife to help with my dad's office and medical treatment room (any cold I had meant a trip to the treatment room and an Argerol spray), as well as work around the house), and the man had been a N&W fireman, and had fired on Y's and A's.   Was it just located in a line of equipment in a yard without much signage or direction?  Could visitors inspect the cab?

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:35 PM

Hi Lois!  Hey

friend611
I hate to break up the conversation, but the thread is drifting slightly off subject. I would like to begin a discussion on why N&W favored Baker valve gear.
lois

Hi Lois!  Hey, isn't there a valve gear discussion goin' on in another thread?

Please don't misunderstand, I wouldn't offend you for the world, but if Dave K. and meself are having a "remember when" discussion going on you don't have to listen if you don't want to!  Matter of fact, no-one has to listen if they don't want to.  Take it as an opportunity to go to the kitchen for a snack.

Wayne

Wayne

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:39 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

My experience with "more powerful than a locomotive" is based on the syndicated TV series of the late 1950's, which showed film clips of a GS-4 or SP E7A's.

Oh yeah, I remember the "Superman" series with George Reeves, the REAL "Superman!"  So does Lady Firestorm, hence the reason we call cab units "Superman Diesels."

When we were in high school in the early '70s the kids called the big blocky cars from the early '50s "Superman Cars", but that's another story. Probably a local Jersey thing.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:45 PM

daveklepper

My grade school and prep school, Columbia Grammer, generally took us to the Polo Grounds for Giant's games, even though the Yankees usually did better in the American League than the Giants in the National.  I guess group tickets for children were easier to come by for the Giants.   So I missed out on Babe Ruth.  I did hear Yankees games on the radio, and my reward for being a Yankee fan and attending games later when I could afford it was to get a contract to design a new sound system for the stadium which lasted about 1974-1992, when replaced by one better adabted to the rock and roll and heavy metal concerts that often took place.   Not before we had supervised sound for the Pope's Mass, however.  The trips to Polo Grounds used the Ninth Avenue Elevated, a treat in itself, until we had to switch to the CC local on Central Park W. when June 1940 came with transit unification and the end of that elevated line.

The Polo Grounds!  My grandmother heard Enrico Caruso sing at the Polo Grounds in 1920, his last American appearance.  Grandma lived until 1982, long enough to hear all the great tenors that came after Caruso.  She said NONE were as good as Maestro Enrico. I've heard some digitally remastered recordings of Caruso with all the background noise removed, and you know what ?  Grandma was right!

Sorry to drift the thread, but what the hell, I'm having fun!

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