N&W Steam Development

[Overmod]

See the PRR system map on pp.8-9 of Staufer's Pennsy Power.  Fort Wayne was well-known to be on the 'racetrack'.  Crestline is very small on a shipper's map -- most of its importance was to the internal workings of the PRR. 

[friend611]

The Pennsy "racetrack" that J 610 was tested on was that portion of the PRR line from Crestline to Chicago. I am not too familiar with the railroads in the area, but do know that the Pennsy ran through Fort Wayne, as well as the Nickel Plate. The Pennsy east-west line through Fort Wayne may well be the racetrack in question though I am unable to confirm it as none of the maps available to me at present include Crestline.
lois

[traininsane]

I live in Fort Wayne Indiana and have heard that the S1 ran through ft wayne from crestline I'm guessing that this is the area of the prr 's racetrack is this true.I'm new around here and have been trying to learn about our local railroad history since I have gotten involved with the NKP765 berkshire hear in the Fort. This is quite the journey, and I'm loving it. So any help I can get would be great.

[friend611]

At present, there is no news on the 2156. Either the matter is being kept super-secret, or 'some lines have been crossed' and the source put out misleading information. I hope that this is not the case, as I do not like to give news unless it is confirmed, for that very reason. And no confirmation has yet been received, only silence. On another subject, I have been studying valve gear for a steam technical article for my newsletter, J Notes, which I produce for my Facebook discussion group, the Friends of the 611. I have been noting how Baker valve gear replaced the original valve gear on older N&W steam engines, and that the original Stephenson valve gear and slide valves were retained on the two remaining G1 2-8-0's and W6 0-8-0T tank engines. Both G1's still exist- 6 at the Virginia Museum of Transportation and 7 at a city park in Bluefield,WV. The W6's were not as fortunate; there are no survivors. But an earlier W-class engine, 917, was one of the "Lost Engines of Roanoke." What valve gear it has now I don't know, but it originally had Stephenson.

[NorthWest]

There has to be an old GE somewhere near there, if not a U-boat* at least a -7 series...

*Nickname for the GE Universal series, i.e. the U25B, for all you die hard steam fans...

In all seriousness, keep us posted on the Y6!

[Firelock76]

Gee, I don't know. Is there a U-boat lurking somewhere between Saint Louis and Roanoke?

[friend611]

That is possibly the reason why things are kept so quiet.
lois

[BigJim]

Lois,

Loose lips sink ships!

[friend611]

No reports yet on 2156. Whatever is going on with this locomotive is certainly top secret.
lois

[Firelock76]

I suspect we may be looking at a possible homecoming to Roanoke for the locomotive.  After all, the N&W has no connection with St. Louis and the museum there may be willing to give it up to a good home.  I'm sure they can use the space, and it's one less big machine to take care of.

Just a guess on my part. 

[NorthWest]

We will be waiting with anticipation... 

[friend611]

2156 is indeed the engine in St. Louis. As to what is going on, I am waiting for some kind of official announcement before I say anything more. The last thing I want is to be credited with an unfounded rumor.
lois

[Firelock76]

friend611

Waiting for an announcement on a certain matter regarding N&W Y6a 2-8-8-2 2156...
lois

Is this the one in Saint Louis?  They can't possibly be talking about bringing that one back to life, can they?

[friend611]

Waiting for an announcement on a certain matter regarding N&W Y6a 2-8-8-2 2156...
lois

[friend611]

There was talk on the N&WHS email mailing list years ago that one of the K2's normally assigned to passenger trains on the division had broken down and the 606 was sent to take her place. However I was unable to find the mailing list archives, so I am unable to confirm it.
lois

[BigJim]

Poking the hornet's nest again because I can't remember if this issue was ever settled:

N&W revised the Class J rods to do away with the tandem rod setup on four locomotives, but according to this discussion,  there was no obvious reason.

As I was looking through my files for something else, I stumbled onto the reason for the Class J rod change;
There were four J's that got the redesigned rods: 600, 605, 610, 611. These were applied from 1952 to 1956-7, as needed, because of stress fracture cracks developing in the long #4 crankpin. This rod change involved replacing the front, rear and intermediate side rods, the main and eccentric rods, the intermediate driving wheels and all crankpins. This was very costly, therefore was only done when required. These rods were designed in 1952 and were not interchangeable with tandem rods.

[BigJim]

Lois,
The real question should have been...How did the 606 get to Shenandoah to begin with? Perhaps Mason has the train sheets that would tell, maybe not. 
Keep in mind that an "Extra" can be anything. A lite engine, a freight, a passenger, work train, etc. 
With no more to go on than "Extra 606", everything at this point is supposition. No one knows.
My guess is that there could have been a reason that the normal engine assignment for a northbound passenger train fell down in Roanoke and 606 just happened to be the only thing available at the time to take its place. Once in Shenandoah it was taken off, turned and sent back to Roanoke by first available means, whatever that may have been.

Regarding the Class A, something told me to go back through my files and it took me a while to find it, but, #1205 was the A that was seen in Shenandoah. This was during WWII. Again, if I was to take a guess, it would be troop train related. Sorry for any confusion.

[friend611]

Thank you for this information. I was not aware of this. However, 606's run on the Shenandoah Valley line was noted as an extra, possibly an inspection train or business cars. This does make it a possibility that 611 could run excursions on the line.
lois

[BigJim]

friend611

the only A known to make any run on this division.

Lois,
   That is incorrect as it has been noted years ago on the N&WHS mailing list that 1205 was indeed in Shenandoah. It was also related to me by an engineer that the Class A's would on occasion make a trip up the Valley. But, it was a rare occurrence and being without cab signals they had to run under signature of the Div. Supt.

[friend611]

606 is highlighted regarding coverage of the J1 problems in Kenneth Miller's book, Norfolk and Western's Class J: the Finest Steam Passenger Locomotive. Unfortunately, this book is out of print and I have not seen any indication that it will be reissued. However, the J1's did not last long unstreamlined, for a year or so later,.when materials became available, the J1's were streamlined and reclassified as class J.
606 is also notable as the only J to run on all five divisions on the original N&W: Norfolk, Radford, Shenandoah, Pocahontas and Scioto. 611 made a short trip on the Shenandoah Division in June 1994, a trip also made by 1218, the only A known to make any run on this division.
lois

[NorthWest]

Linked here is a prior post with a picture of J1 606.

[friend611]

To turn to another subject, I would like to discuss the "war babies" built during World War II. These include six J's, numbers 605-610, built as unstreamlined J1's. The J1's suffered from hot bearings due to the heavy rods necessary since the lightweight alloy used to make the roller bearing rods was not available. I suppose that it was not considered to use the normal carbon steel rods (as used on the A's, Y's, etc.) because of the roller bearing housing in the rods. I am not quite certain about this, and would like some sort of confirmation before I proceed further with the subject.
lois
the friend of 611

[friend611]

It would be possible, and probably well managed with the skill of Scott Lindsay who will be leading the 611 restoration. Once the money is available, and with 1218's firebox partly rebuilt, restoration is certainly possible. 1218 has been in worse shape, and was restored and running by 1987. Once the right people and equipment are available, it could happen.
lois

[NorthWest]

friend611

But we do have the comfort that most of 1218's parts were retained, and there may be a chance that 1218 might run again.

Lois, we need that to happen! How hard would this be, assuming all money was available?

[friend611]

Since there has been no replies, I assume there is nothing that could be said on that particular subject. As for 1218, it had a few more problems, but then it had been rather abused during its time as a stationary boiler at Union Carbide. Even so that there were doubts whether 1218 could be restored to operation. 1218 entered the shop at the end of 1991 for a major rebuild, work we know was never completed. But we do have the comfort that most of 1218's parts were retained, and there may be a chance that 1218 might run again. But that depends on the success of returning 611 to operation, which has now been assured.
lois

[friend611]

To introduce a different subject, the 611 was relatively trouble-free during her excursion career, and evidence suggests she was the locomotive with the fewest problems during the original Southern/Norfolk Southern steam program. The only real issue she had was the cracking loose of the transverse circulators that occurred in the summer of 1983. Besides a problem I heard of with a crosshead, I have not heard of her having any other problems during her excursion career.
As to what factors may have been involved in her being so trouble-free, I'll leave you to discuss. I would guess her relatively young age and the fact she had been so extensively rebuilt (the most notable after the 1956 wreck) as possible factors.
lois

[feltonhill]

The archives work sessions are three days a month.  Next one is Oct 10-13.  The price of D and E drawings is not  expensive.  If you order the drawing through the Commissary (which I would highly recommend) , it will go into the queue with the other sales orders.  The guys that run the scanner will probably get it completed within the work session (they're good, and they also work between sessions on their own). 

[Overmod]

Well now, if I place an order in the next couple of days, how quickly will it get done?  I hadn't considered that the 'scanned' drawings were the ones for which orders had been received ... but now that you mention it, that would make sense... anyone else out there care to 'sponsor' scanning one of the drawings, and contribute to a good organization at the same time?

[feltonhill]

Overmod,

I don't set the priorities on the scanner/printer at the archives  Sales orders come first, everything else is second.  I did pull some of these drawings two weeks ago and they appear in good condition.  We'll see what happens next month.

[Overmod]

timz

Woodard called the A-1's rods "tandem", didn't he?

I don't have a direct reference, but articulated rods predate the Berkshire design.  In any case, dual rods would be much less useful on a locomotive driving on the third coupled axle (as the doubled rod would go forward, not back).  I'm pretty sure that when Woodard said 'tandem' it had to do with sharing thrust load over multiple crankpins...

See US patent 1,803,987 for Woodard himself on this subject (admittedly as late as 1928, with the patent issuing in mid-1931).