Boiler rules are effectively the same both sides of the 49th parallel, even if the wording may have slightly different phrasing and references. In specific situations you might be able to use a provincial boiler inspector rather than complying with federal rules, which may provide a little more flexibility. That's primarily for operations at amusement parks and heritage villages. I believe such may also be the case in the USA.
But are Canadian boiler rules as strict on this issue as USA rules? Perhaps in Canada time in service is the only criterion?
That might well be true in one sense, that mechanically she is ready to go. The running gear repairs that halted her in 2011 were completed (replacement axles) but by then the new management (EHH) arrived, and she stayed parked.
Unfortunately paperwork says quite another since by now her boiler time has expired (by elapsed time, not days in steam). Fifteen years from 2001 means that happened in 2016. So although the boiler is most likely still in good shape, lots of labour will be required to open it up and prove it.
Just another quick update to this post.
I had the chance to speak with the Canadian Pacific Steam Crew last weekend. 2816 is in full operational condition. She's got engineers, mechanics, and firemen that baby her and are just waiting for the go-ahead. The only thing she's waiting for is the higher-ups to say "light her up."
She's stored in Building 3 of the Ogden headquarters facility (The Royal Canadian Pacific pavilion), right next to the corporate headquarters building (Building 1).
https://goo.gl/maps/2q9nzmsXiLF2
When asked about her state of readiness, and more specifically, how quickly she could be out on the line, the crew told us, "Once we got the go-ahead? Days. Two, three days maybe."
Penny TrainsI saw this program over the weekend on our local NBC affiliate. I features some great shots of 2816 running through the Sellkirks while they tell the story of the building of the transcontinental railroad. http://www.nbc.com/the-more-you-know/exclusives/journey-with-dylan-dreyer/video/3517455
http://www.nbc.com/the-more-you-know/exclusives/journey-with-dylan-dreyer/video/3517455
Illuminating!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Penny Trains I saw this program over the weekend on our local NBC affiliate. I features some great shots of 2816 running through the Sellkirks while they tell the story of the building of the transcontinental railroad. http://www.nbc.com/the-more-you-know/exclusives/journey-with-dylan-dreyer/video/3517455
I saw this program over the weekend on our local NBC affiliate. I features some great shots of 2816 running through the Sellkirks while they tell the story of the building of the transcontinental railroad.
The full video is the IMAX production by Stephen Low, Rocky Mountain Express. You can buy it on Blu Ray/DVD from Amazon, or from iTunes.
I highly recommend it, not just for the great scenes involving 2816 herself, but also for the greate camerawork and cinematography of the scenery surrounding her. It looks fantastic, even on a TV screen. I can only imagine what it's like on a full IMAX screen.
It was shot in 2008-2009 (She wore the "Spans the World" shield 2007(ish)-2008, and got her beaver shield back in 2009...You can see her with both in this movie). Someone on YouTube even caught her when they were shooting the helicopter footage on the Lethbridge viaduct.
There was a picture published last week after their annual shareholder meeting showing Mr. Creel walking past a "locomotive".
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/cp-rail-keith-creel-teamsters-1.4108518
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
I would like to bring an update regarding 2816. She is still stored under lock and key in Ogden, however, she has been maintained, and CP has no plans nor desire to get rid of her. Her boiler certificate is expired but her tubes, flue and tube sheets, superheater elements, and other internals are well within their operating lifetime, as all were replaced in 2001 and she hasn't operated much in her post-restoration career (or at all in the last 6 years). Very few people are allowed to see her, and even fewer are permitted to take photographs. However, until the economy (and CP's customer base) turns around, we won't see her running. Her prospects are much brighter now, though, with He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named gone.
The story of 6060, some featured in this video are dead, I have met some others, who all retain their passion for steam. Ever the dreamer, Harry Home is still plugging away at her, raising money and arranging work. He even found some spare time to organize a repainting of the 6015 which is displayed in his hometown of Jasper, on the same spot where 6060 sat cold and dead for years. Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6BYhSyqv4I
6015:
Alberta Railway Museum engines, 1392 operates each summer, vestibule-cabbed Consolidation #73 (last surviving N.A.R. engine) needs $500,000 of boiler work, photo of her is in happier days after being saved from a scrapyard and restored:
A bit off-topic, but you'd think if us dreamers and volunteers can spare some of our money, time, sweat and tears to keep steam alive that a multi-billion dollar Class I railroad could find a way to justify using one of their own as a P.R. tool (see I'm staying on topic ). Guess we'll see whether Creel's CP still has a heart, or if Hunter killed it off forever.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70M-2Dude, thanks so much for the comprehensive update north of the border.
In a way it is a bit of a bummer, though. Canada had some of the best looking 2 cylinder steam power ever, really across the board.
CP with the Selkirks, Mikados and Hudsons, vestibule-cabbed Consolidations, G3 and G5 Pacifics, Jubilees and Ten Wheelers - all locomotives that looked classy while at the same time looking like they mean business. And the two CP Northerns looked like up-sized versions of the H1 Hudsons - again, just downright classy.
CN with Hudsons, multiple classes of Mountains both streamlined and semi-streamlined, and practically more Northerns than Her Majesty's Army had regiments, all well designed engines of commerce that did the job very well and looked good doing it.
We will keep our fingers crossed that at least one of those robust steeds will again gallop the rails of The Dominion.
kgbw49 Is there any place in Canada where big steam is running anymore?
Is there any place in Canada where big steam is running anymore?
I don't think so, and there aren't even that many smaller engines running either. Going from east to west:
Nova Scotia, P.E.I, Newfoundland & Labrador: None (the latter two have few or no railways).
New Brunswick: Formerly the Salem & Hillsborough operated an ex-CN ten-wheeler, but they went cold years ago.
Quebec: Delson (Canadian Railway Museum/ExpoRail) have never had a large engine running, and even the John Molson replica has been down for at least a year. Over in Gatineau the Hull-Chelsea-Wakefield railway suffered washouts in 2011 and ceased operations then. Last I heard their equipment (including an ex-Swedish steam engine) was for sale.
Ontario: The South Simcoe Railway operates ex-CP 136 (of National Dream and 'Tripleheader' fame) and Waterloo Central has a 0-6-0 switcher. SSR also has a CP 4-6-0 (1057, also part of the Tripleheader) but she has been cold for nearly 20 years. No big mainline excursions since CN 6060 returned to the west circa 1980.
Manitoba: Prairie Dog Central's ex-CP 4-4-0 is the only steam here. I believe the two privately-owned 4-6-0's that were shipped up from the Eastern U.S. not too long ago are stored here, but of course would require a lot of work to run again.
Saskatchewan: None.
Alberta: Several operations here. Calgary's Heritage Park operates three ex-U.S. Army switchers (0-6-0?) on a loop, Fort Edmonton Park has a 2-6-2 originally from the deep South, the Alberta Railway Museum (where I volunteer) operates our ex-CN 4-6-0 1392 on a 0.5 mile demonstration track, and finally the Alberta Prairie Railway runs ex-Mississippian #41 (2-8-0) 20 miles from Stettler to Big Valley, which by my count is currently the longest steam run in the country (eek). Alberta Prairie also plays host to 6060 (now owned by the non-profit Rocky Mountain Rail Society) when she is running, but unfortunately that has not been the case since 2011 due to much-needed boiler repairs. Last I heard RMRS had raised about 2/3 of the money needed to fund the repairs, but will not be up and running until summer 2018 at least. She is the largest operating steam engine in the country when running. Oh and I almost forgot the now moribund 2816 in Calgary.
British Columbia: Near Cranbrook Fort Steele has two engines, a 2-6-2 and a Shay (down for repairs) which run on a loop, in the okanagan the Kettle Valley Steam Railway has ex-CP 3716 (2-8-0) on a small section of remaining track, in Kamloops their heritage railway runs ex-CN 2141 (2-8-0, recently back in steam) on a CN spur (formerly they ran all the way to Armstrong before Kelowna Pacific went bankrupt and EHH came to CP), and to round out the mainland the West Coast Railway Association maintains Royal Hudson 2860 in Squamish, but they have not gone on a major run since before the Winter Olympics (2009?). Over on Vancouver Island there are numerous logging engines preserved at Alberni Pacific (2-8-2T and a Shay) and the B.C. Forest Discovery Centre in Duncan, which has (!) seven (Shays, Climaxes, 0-4-0T). Not sure how many are operable though.
Finally last (but certainly not least) is the most remote operation of them all, but also easily the most popular: The bi-national White Pass & Yukon with their 2-8-2's and steam powered rotary plow.
I never thought about it much until now but the Great White North is pretty bleak for steam, especially once you get east of Alberta. I think that about rounds them out, let me know if I forgot any.
At least 2816 was probably, to borrow a Santa Fe term, laid up in good order.
So perhaps there is a chance. Maybe they should send it to the Friends of the 261 in Minneapolis so they can work on it gradually and have it ready for when 261 has to go down for its next 1472.
2816 is not as powerful as 261 but it could probably do pretty well pulling a dozen cars on the terrain around the Twin Cities.
They might have to cover the name on the tender, though, for trips on lines other than the Twin Cities & Western.
But I suppose now that it has been repatriated to Canada, it will be tough to get it moved, however semi-permanently, back out of Canada.
2816 is a great locomotive and it would be great to see it running again somewhere.
Her boiler certificate has expired, so a fair bit of work will be required to put her back in service, even at Steamtown. At the moment CP's priority is trying to win customers back after EHH lost them. We can only hope for better times for both CP and the Empress in the future.
CP should send it back to Steamtown where it would at least have a chance to run.
Only until the roof caves in. Then maybe somebody will have some ideas of what to do.
Methinks it's time to bump this thread, with EHH no longer at CP are there any new updates on 2816 and her situation? They can't keep her stored indoors at Ogden forever...
5935 would be just great. They are great-looking locomotives.
T1b Selkirk 2-10-4...
P2k Mikado 2-8-2...
H1a Hudson 4-6-4...
kgbw49 Well, then, in a dreamer's world I would love to see the Big Three of CP steam back in steam someday - 4-6-4 2816, 1948-built 2-8-2 5468, and 1949-built 2-10-4 5934. CP really knew how to do steam with style and class! One can always hope!
Well, then, in a dreamer's world I would love to see the Big Three of CP steam back in steam someday - 4-6-4 2816, 1948-built 2-8-2 5468, and 1949-built 2-10-4 5934.
CP really knew how to do steam with style and class!
One can always hope!
I assume you mean CP #5935? #5934 was scrapped in 1959. Unless of course, you mean #5931, which is outside Heritage Park in Calgary and was, for a long time (incorrectly) numbered 5934. If either of these locomotives could be restored to operation, it would be #5935, as it is in far better condition, both mechanically and cosmetically. #5931 would have to be disassembled on-site and trucked to the CP mainline and/or the repair shops, and it's boiler, running & valve gear, bearings, and at least 8 of her 10 drivers would have to be completely replaced.5468, is a good candidate for restoration though. She's been displayed indoors, and is in very good condition.
Regarding 2816, I am confident we will see her on the rails again, though it might not happen until after the depression the Alberta (and, to a lesser extent Canadian) economy is going through.
Title was transferred to CP, so in legal terms CP has full ownership. I believe it was a swap with CP providing other goods or services, rather than actual money (except for maybe a token dollar).
Did Steamtown sell or lease 2816 to CP?
The Empress returned to operation in 2001, so her boiler certificate has expired. Likely everything is in pretty good shape so it shouldn't be anywhere close to the cost of her first restoration. There is, however, a lot of labour involved in the boiler inspection. She has been kept indoors, I believe now somewhere in the Ogden HQ site.
Now it is the end of summer 2016 and the engine was not used.
It seems for a moment last winter they were thinking of taking advantage of the downturn in traffic to run 2816 and at least gain a bit of good news press. But things turned down far more than they expected and they no longer wanted to spend the money.
Plus, on another forum, and I have no way of knowing the actual answer, they were saying the salary being offered was nowhere close to appropriate for people with the proper qualifications.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
I found this job posting from January 2016:
Technician, Heritage Locomotive - Canadian Pacific Railway - Canada - Alberta - Calgary
Job description
•Req ID: 45604
•Department: Corporate Affairs
•Job Type: Full-Time
•Position Type: Non-Union
•Location: Calgary, Alberta
•Country: Canada
•% of Travel: 40-50%
•# of Positions: 1.00
•Job Grade: $45.49 per hour
•Job Available to: Internal & External
•Deadline to apply: 02/29/2016
Canadian Pacific (TSX:CP)(NYSE:CP) is a transcontinental railway in Canada and the United States with direct links to eight major ports, including Vancouver and Montreal, providing North American customers a competitive rail service with access to key markets in every corner of the globe. CP is growing with its customers, offering a suite of freight transportation services, logistics solutions and supply chain expertise. Visit cpr.ca to see the rail advantages of Canadian Pacific.
PURPOSE OF THE POSITION:
You will be required to manage all facets of mechanical operations relating to the heritage fleet, specific accountability for mechanical operations of heritage locomotives (F-series, B Unit, Steam Train). Locomotive Engineer on excursions utilizing the 2816 Empress Steam locomotive. Act as Train Manager (Operations) on heritage excursions with heritage fleet.
POSITION ACCOUNTABILITIES:
•Plan, organize, direct and monitor maintenance and repair of power cars and diesel locomotives in public, executive and public relations train service (F series, B Unit, 2816 H1B Steam);
•Organize timing, logistics and readiness of all aspects of locomotive and power equipment preparedness, especially at the start and finish of excursion events;
•Implement standards and policies for safety and operating compliance of heritage train maintenance and movement including the safe operation of shop machinery (i.e.: lathes, milling machines, boring mills, iron workers, fork lifts, and cranes);
•Operation and regular maintenance of the CPR 2816 Empress Steam Locomotive; annual inspection planning, assistance and oversight. Safely operating CPR 2816 as the Locomotive Engineer in charge during mainline steam excursions. Training of locomotive firemen;
•Assist with heavy passenger equipment overhauls and routine maintenance of the Heritage Fleet locomotives and Heritage passenger cars. Organization of maintenance schedules on Canadian Pacific passenger equipment and CPR 2816 support equipment (i.e.: tool car, auxiliary tender);
•Train Manager (Operations) responsible for safe road movement of heritage fleet including liaison with the NMC to review scheduling priorities, staging locations; crew job briefings/job aids; mechanical services etc.;
•Oversee field operations crews and switching operations of equipment in the terminal and at the CPR Pavilion;
•Maintain effective liaison with Manager Heritage Car, RCP hospitality team, Manager Heritage Locomotive, CPR Mechanical Services, Field Operations, Public Affairs, Regulatory Affairs, NMC ,RCP and corporate customers.
POSITION REQUIREMENTS:
•High School Graduate;
•Post-secondary education in Mechanical Engineering is an asset;
•Minimum 5 years’ experience with railway equipment maintenance;
•Minimum 5 years’ experience with heritage locomotive maintenance. Must include experience with large mainline boilers;
•Comprehensive understanding of railway operations; Knowledge of Transport Canada, AAR and FRA rules, regulations and recommended practices;
•Railway Rules Qualified, D card, radio trained;
•You will be required to obtained Class 1 Locomotive Engineer qualification in both Canada & US;
•Analytical and critical thinking; problem solving;
•Mechanical aptitude;
•Demonstrated communication skills to discern problems, explore and resolve solutions with technical and non-technical stakeholders;
•Ability to work appropriately with all levels of corporate executive and/or well-known/celebrity guests;
•Demonstrated high level of respect, discretion and confidentiality.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
As an employer with national presence, the possibility does exist that the location of your position may be changed based on organizational requirements.
Medical Requirements:
CP is committed to the safety and health of its employees and the general public. This position is considered a safety critical position; all new hires will be required to complete a pre-employment medical evaluation that includes a vision, hearing, drug screening and pre-employment physical.
Background Investigation:
The successful candidate will need to successfully complete the following clearances:
Criminal history check
Reference check
This is a permanent, full-time position located at the Building #11, 7550 Ogden Dale Road Calgary Alberta T2C 4X9. The compensation for this position is $45.49 per hour, consistent with industry and position norms. Canadian Pacific offers a competitive flexible benefits package (Extended Health, Dental, Defined Contribution Pension Plan, Life & Disability Insurance, Employee Share Purchase Plan)
Any questions regarding this opportunity can be directed to the Employment Centre employement_centre@cpr.ca or (403) 319-6524
Canadian Pacific Headquarters are located at 7550 Ogden Dale Rd SE Calgary, AB T2C 4X9
Canadian Pacific is an equal opportunity employer committed to the principles of employment equity and inclusion. We welcome applications from all qualified individuals. All applicant information will be managed in accordance with the federal Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act ("PIPEDA").
Please note that only those applicants that apply online at www.cpr.ca/en/careers (Req #45604) before February 29, 2016 will be considered for this position.
Encouraging to hear these updates, any news is better than the no news I had been getting these past few years. And this is certainly an improvement from the last concrete thing I'd heard just after Hunter took over, that she was going to be stuffed and mounted in a city park somewhere. He considers steam a liablility, and since it also does nothing to maximize shareholder value I unfortunately see no future for 2816 at CP, that attitude will live on long after EHH leaves just as it has at CN. On a sidenote does anyone know where she is stored? Must be indoors or there would be a million pics floating around online of her in the deadline.
In regards to the steam program. I try to not even utter the thought of that. But I know as their current president is anti steam. She probably won,t run till he is gone. Last time I heard she was serviceable. So I can only hope the the are taking the opportunity in doing the work that needs to get done. I think it would be a tragedy to not have her ever run again. I would like cp,s steam program expand like up,s steam program with a another steamer. As for the up,s steam program. I scuffed at the notion that one day 844 will be rusting in the head quarter,s. I completely disagree. Up WILL NEVER DEGRADE HER LIKE THAT. She will live very long and prosper. As with 3985 and 4014. And the other equipment. But I,m getting off topic. I doubt they wash their hands away of the 2816. If they do..... Well I really hope they get people with pitch forks and a mob ensew,s. But like I said. I doubt it. I,m 22 years young. And see lots of potential in their steam program. That and steam in general.
She is safely tucked away. I think 2017 is when EHH may finally retire; any operation prior to then is improbable. Staying in CPR hands is probably the best option to see her run again on a main line rather than getting "stuffed & mounted".
Anyone know what's happening here? Doesn't seem to be any hope of CPR resurrecting their steam program, but how about finding an appropriate home for her?
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