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Will CPR's Empress steam program be scrapped?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, July 1, 2023 7:27 AM

kgbw49
And Gordon Lightfoot looks down from Above and smiles.

Oh wow, I've never heard that one!  Thanks for the link!  Just lovely!  

I've got a "Best Of..." Gordon Lightfoot album, I have no idea why they would have left it out. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, June 30, 2023 10:00 PM
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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, June 30, 2023 9:34 PM

The Empress got out of the yard for her first test run yesterday, and solo too!  I don't think they ventured outside of Calgary, just ran back and forth between Ogden and Sunalta (the west side of downtown). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3pifzBtZSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4WZLuNwZgs

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, June 30, 2023 8:36 PM

SD70Dude
Excellent news from Calgary today, 2816 is in steam and moving under her own power:

Thanks 'Dude!

Yeah, the word through the grapevine ever since the CP steam program was shut down 2816 was put away in excellent condition and should the day come it wouldn't take long to get it up and operational again.  Looks like the grapevine was right, although I'm more than sure the crew put in some serious work to make it happen just the same.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 26, 2023 7:14 AM

And about to go all the way to Mexico City!

(I keep hearing 'Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead' quietly in the background... Devil)

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, June 25, 2023 11:45 PM

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:55 PM

I'm not saying the Q2s didn't have whistles -- the GS4s and Niagaras did, too.  But what was used in service was the horns:

Note in the comments that the whistle is described as a relatively low 5-chime, capable of being quilled.  I suspect there are videos of the 261 trip that feature this in action...

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 14, 2021 4:07 PM

selector
an overhead slide (remember those)

I sure do, and they stayed around a lot longer than they should have!

I wish I had a dollar for every overhead slide sheet I had to un-jam from a copier fuser unit!  Yes, you could  make overhead slides in a copier but if you didn't have the right slide material?  Good Lord, what a mess!  

One damn fool in a state office jammed up three  machines!  When she jammed one with inappropriate slide sheets she walked down the hall to the next one, then the next...

Selector, if I'm ever in Vancouver I'll take you up on the offer!

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Posted by selector on Sunday, November 14, 2021 3:20 PM

Flintlock76

 

 
....  Nothing special about horns, diesels have 'em, so who cares? 
 

Can I buy you a nice cognac or scotch...some time...? Laugh

A fellow armoured officer quipped when he heard someone gush over how complicated it was to fly a military helicopter, "Well, how hard can it be?  Pilots do it."

Another time, while attending a class at Staff School, an overhead slide (remember those) was up a bit long, and people started to fidget in the silence.  The Army Colonel said, "I'm just waiting for the pilots' lips to stop moving."

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:35 AM

Overmod

A genuine Lackawanna Pocono whistle isn't a whistle at all.  It was a multichime air horn, made by an organ company...

 

Well, as Goliath used to say:

" I don't know, Da-veee..."  

So I went to the archive here at the "Fortress Flintlock" and pulled my copy of "Lackawanna Railroad Trackside With Henry W. Peterson" and on page four lo and behold there's a photo of Henry with his whistle, air horns, bell, and headlight saved from Lackawanna Pocono 1643. According to author Mike del Vecchio:

"A most notable trip occurrred in 1995 when Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 261 wore the bell, whistle, and air horns for a run between Steamtown and Binhamton."

"That sweet chime whistle and the mellow tone of the bell were heard in Scranton for the first time since 1953."

Mike doesn't mention use of the air horns, although since they were on there I'm sure they were used at least once.  Nothing special about horns, diesels have 'em, so who cares? 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 12, 2021 5:59 PM

A genuine Lackawanna Pocono whistle isn't a whistle at all.  It was a multichime air horn, made by an organ company...

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Posted by pennytrains on Friday, November 12, 2021 5:19 PM

daveklepper
No NYCentral System Hudson was preserved. I believe a Burlington 4-6-4 is displayed. (Galewsburg? Ottamwa?) CP has the omy operable one? Any others preserved?

Great info here: http://www.rgusrail.com/roster.html

There is, of course, C&O L1 #490 at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore, plus two ATSF locomotives and NKP #170.

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, November 11, 2021 7:05 PM

kgbw49
the locomotive that stood in as a Lackawanna 4-8-4

All they'd need to make it complete would be a proper CP whistle.  There was a genuine Lackawanna whistle standing by courtesy of railfan photographer (and BIG Lackawanna fan) Henry Peterson.  They popped it on the 261 and Scranton PA heard a sound it hadn't heard for decades!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, November 11, 2021 6:36 PM

Well, in the vein of "the last shall be first", a significant portion of the railroad that was the last transcontinental railroad to be constructed will now form the core of the first North American railroad.

The former Milwaukee Road Twin Cities-Chicago, Twin Cities-Kansas City, and Chicago-Kansas City will be the core of CPKC.

Perhaps if Empress throws a shoe or needs some extended maintenance, housed a stone's throw from Shoreham Yard resides MILW 261. With a few wine-colored panels painted on the cab and tender, and a 3101 number panel, perhaps the locomotive that stood in as a Lackawanna 4-8-4 as 1661 at Steamtown could pinch hit if the need arises.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, November 11, 2021 5:33 PM

My take on this latest development is that CP's steam crew is preparing to perform a full American 1472 day inspection on 2816.  This would be necessary for any operation south of the border, and among other things the inspection of course requires removing the tubes, flues and anything else you need to get at them.  

Railfan speculation about CP potentially acquiring and restoring another engine comes up on the 2816 facebook group on a regular basis.  CP 3101, the now privately owned 4-8-4 currently on display at a Regina steel mill is an especially common subject.  Mr. Jeffrey summed up the actual history of this topic in another post almost a year ago:

Jonathan Jeffrey

I’ve stated this a couple of times before on this page.  To avoid any rumours on the matter, particularly now, to be clear CP never formally considered or tried to get a second steam locomotive going.  That whole thing involving the IPSCO/EVRAZ 3101 began with two guys (one a former CP employee).  CP knew they were doing their own thing, on their own time, investigating the possibility of its restoration.  Once word got out that these guys were starting to involve CP in their discussions, unsanctioned, it created extensive friction.  So it was then made crystal clear to them at that time that CP would not be entertaining any discussion about acquiring another steam locomotive.  

The 3101 rumours occurred during Fred Green’s tenure.  When he and his senior staff learned about some of the “commitments” being made, and how CP was being brought into the picture (basically shopping for a steam locomotive without permission) the whole thing blew up and was dropped immediately.

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Posted by selector on Thursday, November 11, 2021 3:49 PM

Flintlock76

 

selector

If they're pulling the front end throttle (?), superheater, and tubes, this lady won't be running for a few weeks.  She must not have passed inspection. Oh well, it has been 21 years.

 

 

 

Either that or since they're going to run it here in the US they're making sure it's up to American specs?  

It'd be embarassing if they get ready to make the "Grand Tour" and get stopped because it doesn't meet FRA standards.

 

 Indubitably.  I just meant that, while this was not seemingly in the mix just eight/twelve weeks ago, it is now a distinct bottleneck, and will almost certainly preclude any live steam from CP showcasing the KCS acquistion....anywhere.....soon.

 
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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 11, 2021 12:16 PM

daveklepper
Any others preserved?

Several Burlington examples, for starters; see the collection at MOT in St.Louis...

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 11, 2021 10:18 AM

No NYCentral System Hudson was preserved.  I believe a Burlington 4-6-4 is displayed.  (Galewsburg?  Ottamwa?)  CP has the omy operable one?  Any others preserved?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, November 11, 2021 8:28 AM

selector

If they're pulling the front end throttle (?), superheater, and tubes, this lady won't be running for a few weeks.  She must not have passed inspection. Oh well, it has been 21 years.

 

Either that or since they're going to run it here in the US they're making sure it's up to American specs?  

It'd be embarassing if they get ready to make the "Grand Tour" and get stopped because it doesn't meet FRA standards.

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, November 10, 2021 11:43 PM

If they're pulling the front end throttle (?), superheater, and tubes, this lady won't be running for a few weeks.  She must not have passed inspection. Oh well, it has been 21 years.

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Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:15 AM

Great explanation by the 2816 crew.. focussing on keeping this beautful engine in a state of good repair instead of bringing in another locomotive would be the best way to go I think given the funds available. 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, November 9, 2021 10:02 PM

2816 went out for a short trip around central Calgary yesterday, being towed by a diesel.  The local railfan community spotted her and started speculating online as per usual.  One of CP's heritage program employees was kind enough to post an explanation on the engine's Facebook fan page this evening.  I like where this is going....

Jonathan Jeffrey

Folks,

Lots of speculation recently. To avoid any unhealthy rumours, here’s an update along with some additional information. 

Me and Justin, along with help from some fine local management, oiled up 2816 and headed down to 12th Street in Calgary yesterday for a trip around the wye. 2816 was facing the wrong direction for front end, superheater, and boiler tube removal. That’s all we will discuss on that for now, but will continue to update.

It was a beautiful day, and we were greeted along the way by an impressive entourage of photographers and onlookers! It was wonderful to see 2816 get the attention she deserves again, even if briefly and not under steam. 

Dennis Cardy posted with regards to a backup locomotive for 2816.

I’ve addressed the “second locomotive” speculation a couple of times, and will again for the last time. 

Dennis correctly stated there was “talk” about a backup locomotive. That’s all it ever was: talk. 

Although we would have loved to see another steam locomotive on the roster, when the idea was put forward (a long time ago now) the remaining executives at CP who remembered the cost overruns of the 2816 restoration immediately shot it down. 

It’s always fun to discuss “what ifs”, but for now we are focused on giving 2816 the attention she deserves and there is no possibility of CP restoring a second steam locomotive at this time.

Lastly, who’s going to do the work?  We will be assembling a crew who will be led by Justin and I. This crew will be made up of some old friends of 2816, along with some new ones too. 

As we start this process, Justin, Adam, myself, and the others involved continue to work tirelessly on the many moving parts of a new beginning. 

Best,

The 2816 Crew

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Posted by selector on Sunday, September 19, 2021 5:27 PM

This is wonderful news.  We'll get some new high quality video submissions to the www soon after this event.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, September 18, 2021 11:04 PM

This latest CP-KCS announcement is the best one yet!

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/cpkc-a-powerful-combination/

From the article:

Provided the Surface Transportation Board gives its stamp of approval, a special celebration is planned to mark the official start-up the Class I railroad that will be named Canadian Pacific Kansas City, or CPKC. Creel told Railway Age that a commemorative business train will be operated from Calgary to Mexico City on the CPKC main line to mark the occasion—powered by none other than 2816, the iconic Empress steam locomotive. “We of course do not want to get out in front of the STB, but if all goes as anticipated, 2816 will be on the head end, in full steam.”

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, November 16, 2020 9:30 PM

SD70Dude
here's a short clip of 2816 backing away from the shop:

Oh wow!  Steam in the snow!  Can't beat it!

Thanks 'Dude!  You made my day!

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, November 16, 2020 7:50 PM

From a couple years ago, the inside of CP heritage cars and their shop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFO0YZMD_28

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, November 16, 2020 5:27 PM

And for those who haven't seen it already, here's a short clip of 2816 backing away from the shop:

https://www.tiktok.com/foryou?lang=en#/@misspameladawn/video/6894794400120016130

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, November 16, 2020 5:15 PM

I don't have any inside info, but my reading of the Canadian steam regulations does not reveal anything that expressly prohibits such an operation, even if the locomotive has not undergone a full American-style (tubes and flues removed) 1,472 day inspection in decades. 

Rather, the regulations would seem to permit any operation that the boiler inspectors and other applicable regulators approve of. 

I'm quite sure that CP's steam people got all the required approvals and did any work that the regulators required, which also means this steam-up was not done on a whim, they must have been planning this for months.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 16, 2020 4:55 PM

Flintlock76
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're steaming it up, at least it's something, but if they want to really impress me, and I imagine quite a few other people, get it back on the main line.

There is an interesting RyPN discussion going on about precisely how legal 'getting it back on the main line' right now might be.  I think the fact they used it 'virtually' and loudly proclaimed it never left 'yard' trackage is indicative of precisely what could and couldn't be done in firing the locomotive now (or what posed the minimum 'official' resistance to what they wanted to do).  By now I expect SD70dude to have gotten the full skinny...

EDIT: full discussion is promised on RyPN as of Wednesday morning (Nov 18) - there's already a statement from CP asking that railfans and their flashes and drones be kept away while the 'virtual train' footage is being recorded.

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