Those of you who did not live through WWII and had no experience of railroading during that period are understandably incredulous about tales of 70mph coal trains being normal operating procedure on the N&W and possibly elsewhere. The railroad culture was very different during that period. There were no officials out with radar units to track overspeeding engineers. Every railroad man and woman was impressed that their job was as important to winning WWII as a front-line Infantryman and any slacking or lack of full cooperation could mean lives lost at the front. Dispatchers always worked to move traffic most expeditiously, whether it was a coal train or a peddler freight or whatever. Fuel economy was not even thought about in normal operatons during war on any Class I, possibly yes on shortlines, like the Suncook Valye which did run pretty leasurely, but not on Class I's. Keepig the traffic moving was really the only consideration.
When a through freight came through a division point, it would stop for inspection and usually four car-knockers would inspect, two on each side, one from the front and one from the rear, checking for hot journals (with equpment to repack if necessary), anything loose, etc. On some lines each section crew, and this was an eight-our full time job of four of five people, with overtime if necessary to get a particular problem fixed, had responsibility for only five to ten miles of RofW. working between trains to tamp and align and keep the jointed rail track in as exact alignment as possible.
The Silver Meteor, Champion, and Southerner, all then all-coach streamliners with dedicated equipment, almost always left Penn Station with a specially modified PRR round-top boxcar (and only one on a specific train), with modified Andrew freightcar trucks for high speed and trainline pipes and wiring for steam and communication, between the GG1 and the baggage-dorm car, staying south of Washington between the diesels and that car. Thesse were NOT Railway Express cars. I always thought this was to expedite essential parts from some Long Island or New England factory for some Florida or Georgia defense contractor, and shipping the frieght car via a passenger streamliner insured more prompt delivery. But now I understand the reverse was true. This war-materials frieght car was placed on the streamliner specifically so the streamliner would receive priority handling. These trains generally made good time southbound, and I would arrive in Richmond, or Wilson, or Charlottesville, or Charleston pretty close to on-time. Northbound, it was a different matter. I never saw these cars on a northbound streamliner. And I never arrived in Washington on any of these streamliners on-time. The big hangup was the Patomic River double-track bridge. B&O and PRR freights for Patomic Yard, for itnerchange with the C&O, Southern, and RF&P, shared the tracks with all the passenger trains to the south from Washington. Northbound, we might be on time or a few minutes late at Alexandria, and then sit motionless for a half hour or more between that station and the bridge. Only once did I arrive in NYC on time, and that was because we were only a half hour late into Washington, the switching was done more quickly than usual, and we made the Congresional's usual time, 155 minutes, to New York, instead of the scheduled 170 minutes. .On two occasions on one or two of these streamliners, we were so late that the train was turned at Philadelphia 30th Street, and we continued to New York in heavyweight 12-section-one-drawingroom cars with an across-the platfomr transfer.
Segregation was still enforced in the South, and engineers were always white and firemen usually black, at least on the N&W. But deep friendships existed between firemen and engineers who worked as a team with lots of mutual respect and personal care for each other.
A few rcollections:
and engineers were always white and firemen usually black, at least on the N&W.
First, I don't think that is a very accurate comment for the N&W. I never knew of a black fireman.
about tales of 70mph coal trains being normal operating procedure on the N&W...
Second, I don't think this is true either because it exceeds the speeds allowed in the employee timetable..
.
Most of us agree the notion that coal trains regularly did 70 mph is nonsense-- but if you look at a 1950s N&W timetable I think you won't find anything prohibiting 70 with any freight train. As I recall the timetable didn't care if you did 75 mph, even with a Y6.
I believe the A averaged about 35 to 40 mph from Roanoke to Lambert's point without stopping since they carried the extra tender.
CZ
timz Most of us agree the notion that coal trains regularly did 70 mph is nonsense-- but if you look at a 1950s N&W timetable I think you won't find anything prohibiting 70 with any freight train. As I recall the timetable didn't care if you did 75 mph, even with a Y6.
Then you haven't read the employee timetable which clearly states what the speed limits are just as they do today.
To Big Jim: I know of one N&W fireman who was black. This was back in the 1940's and his name was Sam Johns. He was the grandfather of Columbia Md. businessman and toy train collector Tony Lash, who's been featured in "Classic Toy Trains" magazine and a TM video. As a boy Tonys grandfather got him rides on the Y6's from Roanoke to Bluefield. What a lucky (and well behaved!) young man Tony must have been!
To Dave Klepper: Thank you so much for the history lesson! There's so much of the WW2 era that's never made it into the books, and probably never will. Thanks for sharing your memories with us!
BigJimThen you haven't read the employee timetable which clearly states what the speed limits are just as they do today.
timz BigJim: Then you haven't read the employee timetable which clearly states what the speed limits are just as they do today. The limit it clearly stated was 78 mph for passenger and the same for freight between Norfolk and Poe in 1953, and the same between Kenova and Columbus in 1954.
BigJim: Then you haven't read the employee timetable which clearly states what the speed limits are just as they do today.
The title of this thread is "WWII and High Speed Steam" and clearly 1953 does not fall between 1941 - 1945. The timetable effective April 1, 1945 only allows a maximum of 50mph for classes A ,K & E in this same area of the Norfolk Div.. The highest these same classes were allowed is 60 between Clay & Montvale and Kinney & Forest.
" As I recall the timetable didn't care if you did 75 mph, even with a Y6."
No, but the Y6 would care. It was designed for about 25-30 mph.
I think Dave's memories are a bit varnished by time to say the least. How old WERE you then Dave. 13,14?
tdmidget " As I recall the timetable didn't care if you did 75 mph, even with a Y6." No, but the Y6 would care. It was designed for about 25-30 mph. I think Dave's memories are a bit varnished by time to say the least. How old WERE you then Dave. 13,14?
Another myth is that the Y6 couldn't stretch its legs. Maybe not as much as above, but, not that far away either.
Y's were at their best pulling/shoving hard @ 10-20 mph, but they were often doing more. Have video of them moving smartly at what must be close to 45 mph.
Crandell
selector Y's were at their best pulling/shoving hard @ 10-20 mph, but they were often doing more. Have video of them moving smartly at what must be close to 45 mph. Crandell
Agree. The Y's no doubt could move comfortably at 45-50 mph, but their peak power was down around 20-25 mph.
My memories about railroads during WWII are pretty accurate. They were my main interest in life, and often during classes at Columbia Grammar School and its highschool, I would "daydream" about experiences in riding trains, reviewing memories, instead of listening to the teacher. Math was different because I wanted to an engineer who would design locomotives. In 1952 I did spend a summer doing useful work for EMD in LaGrange, but Professor Balsbow (Balsbau?) at MIT, my Transportation Planning professor said: "David, railroads have no future in the USA. If you want to be a railway electrification engineer, go to France and become a Frenchman." Meanwhile, I found Leo Beranek's courses on acoustics (taken to make my hi-fi better) so fascinating that I became an acoustical engineer, and my Army (1955-1956, after ROTC at MIT 1949-1953) service had me testing long-range loudspeakers, agent-type mineature radios, and a complete mobile TV broadcasting station, among other similar matters. And lots of opportunity to visit the Hamlet Seabord yards and ride the Seabord and Atlantic Coast LIne trains, including reviving a childhood friendship with ACL Dining Car Steward Jim Masters. My first long-distance trip by train by myself was at the age of 10 during the school spring break. A Mister Eppler, a German Jewish refugee living in our family home's basement apartment, went with me on the PRR to Washington, then went off to the State Department on his own business. I looked at the departure board and then boarded the C&O train to Charlottesville. At the C&O (not the Union) Station, I called my relatives, and Sally, the maid, the wife of the ex-N&W fireman, told me to catch the Rugby Road bus to Rugby Place. All at age ten in 1942. The ex-fireman had a responsible position in a maintenance at UofVirginia. But he missed his old job and loved to talk trains. I think his move to Charlottesvile was because of his marriage to Sally.
But latent disflexia does strike once and a while . The Congressional's running time was 215 minutes and the Silver Meteor and Champion were variously at 225 and 230 minutes. Most PRR NY-Washington expresses were timed at 235 or 240 minutes. I discovered my dislexic error (subtracting from three hours instead of four) after I left the Hebrew U. computer terminal that I use, and this is the first opportunity to access the internet following that error.
Also, on occasion, during WWII a northbound Silver Meteor, Champion, or Southerner, would simply be tacked on behind a regular Washington - New York PRR express train and not run as a separate train. The NY express would load on a lower lever track, with the loading taking place towards the front of the platform. This meant a departure 5 minutes late, but the time would be made up, usually by Philadelphia. The streamliner was already late and got delayed a few minutes more.
Also on occasion, the Champion or Silver Meteor would loose its diesel at Acca? yard in Richmond , and one of the beautful RF&P 4-8-4's would make just as good time to Alexandria.
The southbound freight car on the Southerner may have been for Coastline Optical company (or something by that name) in Farhope, Alabama, which was making optical equpment for weapons, and may have needed components manufactured on Long Island (possibly Fairchild?), It would have been straighforward for the LIRR to deliver to the car to Sunnyside Yard right behind the GG1 before the power coupled up. This would then bypass Patomic Yard, which was also running at capacity. North of Patomic yard, freights had PRR or B&O power and crews, and south of the yard it was mostly Southern and RF&P with the C&O somewhat a minor player. If there were any "run-through" freights, they still exchanged power and crews at Patomic Yard. I don't believe this was ever done on the passenger main at Alexandria. It would be interesting to inspect train sheets for the RF&P dispatched line between Alexandria and Washington Union Station to see just how many trains crossed that Patomic River Bridge each day 1942-1944. I suspect the number would be pretty close to 120, but might even be as high as 200.
Dave, enjoyed your last post! Living here in Richmond Va. I've been told by those who were there that during WW2 train frequency through the town of Ashland on the RF&P was at least one every 15 minutes, both north and south. It was a railfans heaven on earth, or would have been if the reason for it wasn't in the back of everyone's mind at the time. Old RF&P veterans get a laugh every time CSX moans about having to schedule Amtrak trains along the line. "Gee," they say. "WE never had any trouble mixing freight and passengers!" Ashlands still a great train watching spot. The old station's still there, with a nice RF&P museum in it. And if you're a model railroader there's "Train Town" hobbies right down the street.
And won't the oldtimers tell you that the RF&P was also pretty much a one-speed railroad where everything rolled along at about 60 mph, merchandize, peddlers, and passenger trains, and even coal? One thing I could never figure out as a kid was that a few times 4-8-4's did replace diesels on the Silver Meteor and Champion northbound, but I never saw one on the point at Washington Union southbound. Either, the cut-off diesels went south from Richmond on a lessor train, like the Havana Special and Everglades, the Sunland and Plamland, or the RF&P used them on one of these trains northbound to Washington after whatever needed servicing was acomplished. If you have some friends who can answer that question, I would thank you.
I have a good picture of Ashland in my mind. Many times I was at the rear vestibule looking out as we traveled the center reservation in the main street. And Doug Riddel did keep me up to date on the use of the station as the town museum and visitors center.
On the Soutthern railroad, on the other hand, I did see a Pacific, green and gold splender and all, on the point of the diesel, once northbound for the Southerner, and once northbound on the Tennesean, at Charloteseville. Never saw this on an RF&P, ACL, or SAL passenger train, although I did see freight diesels and steam together on frieghts,. but not on the RF&P. My impression was that double-heading was very rare or non-existant on the RF&P main line.
I remember the Richmond streetcar system very well. The ex Eastern-Mass Bradly two-window front lighweights on Highland Park Hull Street, and the couble-truck Birneys on Broad, Broad and Main, and Ginter Park, the latter the line I rode most often. Some double-truck Birneys were probably second hand from Providence, RI, but some were always Richmond cars . These cars were all blue with silver or white trim and lettering . Then there were the single-truck Birneys on Clay Street, and older deck-roof wood cars that came out on several lines just during rush hours, These two types were orange. I had my first experience with Jim Crow, other than segregated coaches on trains, on a Richmond streetcar. In New York I sometimes had a treat of sitting on a motorman's stool at the rear of a car, when the turn-around time at 42nd Street and 5th Avenue was not enough for the operator to fold it agains the wall to the left ot the controller. So of course I tried the same privilege in Richmond, where upon a well dressed colored woman said: "Sonny, you should move to the front of the car and sit with the white folks. This part is reserved for us colored folks."
Much later in life I got to work on the Carpenter Theatre (not the latest renovation), St. James Church (work completed by Gerry Marshall and Dan Clayton after my move to Israel), and the Federal Reserve building (on old SAL freight yard land). I missed the streetcars, though.
Dave, as far as no steamers on RF&P southbounds out of Washington Union Station the only thing I can surmise is that RF&P's first series of 4-8-4's were a little too big to enter Washington proper, the clearances would'nt allow it. As far as others are concerned I'll have to hit the books. One thing is certain, the RF&P was a class act, and a highly coveted job for the locals. As a matter of fact, Richmonders used to say that RF&P stood for "Relatives, Friends, and Parents", the meaning of which was you had to know someone to get a job there! My mother told me the Moran tugboat company in New York was the same way.
The use of steam in and out of WASH may be complicated by several factors. Some one with unlimited resources needs to verify these items.
1. I seem to remember seeing a pre AMTRAK RR map of DC showing the track from CP Virginia ( Where the current CSX track bears into Virginia ave tunnel) - Wash Union Station as owned by SOU RR??. The map also showed some track from POT yard across Long Bridge as owned by SOU and PRR??? By the way Long Bridge was a draw (Swing?) thru FDR so he could cruise the Potamac.
2. I know SOU operated smokeless steamers from WASH - Alexandria due to DC anti smoke regs.
3. If RF&P and C&O operated their own smokeless or used SOU's I have no idea? See also below about GG-1s.
4. I remember reading sometime before AMTRAK that 1 set of SOU diesel engineers & firemen ran only WASH - ALEX for a one full days' pay??? That would lead to conclusion that during steam days the engine crews only ran same distance??
5. What does this mean as to how RF&P engine crews operated???
6. Did SOU sell their CP Virginia - WASH U Staion track to AMTRAK and when???
7. Once AMTRAK crews took over operating the trains from the various RRs did the Engine crews then run thru to/from WASH??
8. Some of the more exclusive Florida trains had their engines changed to GG-1s and PRR engine crews at Pot yard and bypassed WASH entirely.
9. Could it be that all Florida trains during steam years changed to GG-1s at POT and proceed to WASH Union?? If so CAT would have been installed CP Virginia to WASH??
10. Clearances from CP Virginia to WASH station should have been no problem as superliner equipped Cardinals have operated now thru the tunnel??
"2. I know SOU operated smokeless steamers from WASH - Alexandria due to DC anti smoke regs.
3. If RF&P and C&O operated their own smokeless or used SOU's I have no idea? "
It's really getting deep now.
But I DID ride behind lots of steam in and out of Washington. 1. All C&O trains, always a Pacific. 2. All Southern trains except the Tennesean and Southerner, also always a Pacific. 3. The Havanna Special, Everglades, Palmland and Sunland on the RF&P, including the great 4-8-4's. (Also, although I did not ride it, I believe the "Blue and Grey" was also pulled by steam, and usually a 4-8-4, but possibly a Pacific. And on one occasion at least and probably two on the Florida streamliners, a 4-8-4 took us from Acca to Washington Union Station, northbound. My understanding was that the track to Alexandria was dispatched by the RF&P. Ownership is another matter entirely. Someone may wish to check on this. It may be that there was a dispatcher rotation.
The C&O used Pacifics east of Charlottesville on both trains to Newport News and to Washington. The Greenbriers, the 4-8-4's, ran west from Charlottesville. The Newport News and Washington sections were combined at the Charlottesville C&O station, and the Greenbiers ran west from there, usually stopping at the Charlottesville Union Station as well. C&O and Southern tickets werre interchageable to Charlottesville. I usually traveled on a PRR-Southern ticket. That way if there was space (very seldom) at train time, I could return on the Southerner or Tennesean. The C&O had comfortable (reclining seat?) six-wheel truck air-conditioned coaches on the George Washington, but the other C&O trains and Southern trains had plain-Jane coaches no better than a classic PRR P-70. Many of my trips had multiple southern destinations, such as going to Charlottesville, then over to Richmond, then to a stopover in Washington with Aunt Sue (A WAAC with an important Washington job in WWII), and then to New York. In retrospect, I should have used the B&O more often.
I know of fire-less steam engines used in transit operations around the mid 1800's, but how did smokeless engines work?
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
I don't know the answer to that one. On one occasion on a southbound C&O with plain-jane coaches, during the wait for departure, it was hot in the car (summer) and I opened the window to get a breeze and some fresh air, and stupidly fogot to close it as we accelerated from the station. I was eating a cucumber sandwich that Mom had backed in a brown bag with other edibles to save dining car costs. As we entered the tunnel and I was closing my teeth on the sandwich, a cinder flew in the window, landed between my teeth and got swallowed along with some cucumber and bread. I didn't pay that any heed, but then did close the window. After less than an hour, the lunch did not remain in my stomach and existed in the men's room in reverse from the direction it entered my stomach. I was feeling OK by the time we got to Charlottesville, and stayed on the train until we got to Union Station, which was within walking distance of Rugby Road and Rugby Place, but since a bus was in sight, rode the Rugby Road bus again.
The Rugby Road overpass in Charlottesville was a place to watch the C&O main to the west. I saw Greenbriars on both passengers and frieght, and an occasional 2-8-2 on frieghts, but not very many freights. I never saw solid coal trains or articulateds, those apparently came through at night or were run only on the James River line to the south. Possibly also C&O originated coal for the northeast, that formerly went by ship from Newport News (restricted by submarine threats and heavy port use for export to front lines across the Atlantic) went by some Western Maryland or direct to B&O routing that bypassed Washington.
Sally and her husband lived in a colored neighborhood in the northeast section of Charlottesville, within site of the Southern main line on an embankment. Most Southern freights were behind 2-8-2's, with lots of all-refer trains, but I saw a A-B-B-A FT EMD-hauled trains for the very firts time at that location. I may have seen DL-109's on frieghts on the New Haven before then, possibly not.
Come to think of it, I never did see an artriculated, B&O or C&O or whatever, at Patomic yard. I did see Pennsy steam as well as electric power, however.
Washington Union was switched entirely by a fleet of 0-6-0 switchers identacle to PRR B-6's, except they had "Washington Union Terminal" in small gold letters on the sides of the slope-backed tenders.
If any Florida trains bypassed Washington Union Station and ran with PRR crews and electric power to Potomac Yard., they were either special trains or extra sections of regular trains. All trains in the RF&P, SAL, and ACL timetables with through cars to and from NY stopped at Washington, without exception. If anyone has a timetable that proves me wrong on this point, speak (write) up. But it would have been logical for specials and extra section to have bypassed the station, and I just never had that experience in my travels.
I think RF&P and C&O engine crews worked through to Washington in passenger service. But not if they were already exceeding time-in-service laws. That may have been the reason for the Southern engine-crew shuttle.
blue streak 1 By the way Long Bridge was a draw (Swing?) thru FDR so he could cruise the Potamac.
By the way Long Bridge was a draw (Swing?) thru FDR so he could cruise the Potamac.
That would be the one completed August 25, 1904?:
http://www.dcnrhs.org/learn/washington-d-c-railroad-history/history-of-the-long-bridge
Now THAT'S an example of government planning ahead. If only ours could do it today.
Also of note from the same article:
"By 1937-38 the Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac Railroad needed some new equipment, so they ordered five modern 4-8-4 steam locomotives from Baldwin Locomotive Works in Chester, Pa., a suburb of Philadelphia. Amazingly, they were several inches too wide to properly clear the tunnels in Washington. More importantly they had too heavy of an axle-load to traverse the Long Bridge.
These two factors forever consigned these beautiful engines to the Virginia side of the river and freight service. Although they were pressed into emergency passenger service on occasion, they always stayed on the south side of the river. One can only wonder how they were delivered from their Pennsylvania manufacturer to the RF&P at that time."
Now, that may or may not be true. I'd sure like to see more on that.
Also, regarding the various draw spans on the Potomac, my recollection is that they were made that way to allow commercial ship traffic up to the Georgetown commercial waterfront, and maybe further up to Great Falls.
Ed
Prince's RF&P book says the initial batch of 4-8-4's could have been modified to fit the tunnel-- don't think he says they ever were. The bridge was Cooper E-60 in 1937, and the later RF&P 4-8-4s stayed within that restriction, but in 1942 they (PRR?) strengthened the bridge anyway.
Well. hit the book concerning the RF&P, and without turning this into a dissertation, yes, the RF&P was a high speed road beginning with the years after the Civil War. The steam engines puchased all were dual-purpose, at home either on passenger or freight. Being a single track, then double track line on a VERY busy corridor the trains had to be kept moving. Double heading usually wasn't needed as the consist were tailored to the power.
As far as penetration into Washington, I couldn't find anything about steam engines being prohibited. The only RF&P engines that couldn't get into DC were the first batch of 4-8-4's , the "Generals". They were too heavy for the Long Bridge over the Potomac, and were too wide for the First Street tunnel, so, they were used on freight service only and stopped their northbound trips at Potomac Yard. The second and third batch of 4-8-4's, the "Governors" and "Statesmen" were roughly 30 tons lighter than the first so had no weight or clearance problems. The Long Bridge, by the way, was owned by the Pennsy, other roads like the RF&P and the Southern had trackage rights over it. The Pennsy DID electrify trackage over the bridge in into Potomac Yard in 1935 so they could run their own engines there.
Diesels in and out of DC? Well, the Seaboard starting in 1938 used diesels on the "Orange Blossom Special", followed by the "Silver Meteor". The ACL folowed suit soon afterward on some of their name trains. These trains ran into DC on the RF&P crewed by RF&P personnel. If DaveK doesn't remember diesels on the trains, well, maybe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Diesels do break down from time to time!
Washington Union Station was jointly owned, at it's opening anyway, by several roads, the PRR, the RF&P, the C&O, and the Southern.
Hope I hit all the high points. The info is from William E. Griffin's "Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac, the Capital Cities Route" published in 1994 by TLC Publishing. (Holy smoke, have I had it THAT long?) A good book and entertaining read.
I did not say I don't remember diesels on those trains. First, I made it clear that all southbound Southerner, Champion, and Silver Meteor trains had diesels on the point when I rode them southbound. I said that twice (at the most, possibly my memory is not that perfect and it was only once) as an exception, the diesel came off at Acca yard and was replaced by a 4-8-4, northbound. The Everglades, Hvanna Special, Palmland, and Sunland were the trains I rode regularly using steam on the RF&P. I am sure this was mostly 4-8-4's but a Pacific may have been used occasionally. I am pretty sure the Blue and Grey used steam, since RF&P had no passenger diesels of its own during WWII, possibly except for a rare occasion to place an SAL or ACL diesel at Ivy City because its presence was required there. But the Orange Blossom Special, Florida Special (did not ride these trains, winter and all Pullman only) Champion, Silver Meteor, Southerner, and Tennesean, regulary ran diesels in and out of Washington Union, and the diesels could be seen at Ivy City between runs.
Please read what I wrote accurately before criticizing my accuracy. Thanks. Or, how could I have made the point more clear?
I did get to ride the Florida Special much later in life. Twice, I think. But the Orange Blossom Special didn't last very long in the postWWII days.
I did once see the Orange Blossom Special pulling into Main Street Station, Richmond, southbound, with its multi-unit diesel consist as I was leaving on a C&O train for Charlottesville. I knew which train it was because of its all-Pullman consist.
http://www.zazzle.com/is_your_trip_necessary_ww2_poster-228849834232605756
Looks like Dave wasn't really on the team.
blue streak 1 The use of steam in and out of WASH may be complicated by several factors. Some one with unlimited resources needs to verify these items. 1. I seem to remember seeing a pre AMTRAK RR map of DC showing the track from CP Virginia ( Where the current CSX track bears into Virginia ave tunnel) - Wash Union Station as owned by SOU RR??. The map also showed some track from POT yard across Long Bridge as owned by SOU and PRR??? By the way Long Bridge was a draw (Swing?) thru FDR so he could cruise the Potamac. The Southern had trackage rights over the RF&P from about AF Tower (south of the Alexandria station) to the junction with the PRR north of the Alexandria station (I, at the moment, do not remember just where) and thence over the PRR into Washington Union Station. The map is in error, as the PRR owned the track, both through Union Station and the freight line. 6. Did SOU sell their CP Virginia - WASH U Staion track to AMTRAK and when??? See above. 9. Could it be that all Florida trains during steam years changed to GG-1s at POT and proceed to WASH Union?? If so CAT would have been installed CP Virginia to WASH?? The PRR had catenary into Potomac Yard so it did not have to change engines to move freight into/out of the yard. 10. Clearances from CP Virginia to WASH station should have been no problem as superliner equipped Cardinals have operated now thru the tunnel?? Off hand, I do not remember that the Cardinal was ever equipped with Superliners; when we rode it last year and the year before, the equipment was single level (and my wife liked the bedrooms better than she liked the bedrooms of the Superliners). I understand that it is possible to move dome cars through the tunnel if the move is made carefully.
The Southern had trackage rights over the RF&P from about AF Tower (south of the Alexandria station) to the junction with the PRR north of the Alexandria station (I, at the moment, do not remember just where) and thence over the PRR into Washington Union Station. The map is in error, as the PRR owned the track, both through Union Station and the freight line.
See above.
The PRR had catenary into Potomac Yard so it did not have to change engines to move freight into/out of the yard.
Off hand, I do not remember that the Cardinal was ever equipped with Superliners; when we rode it last year and the year before, the equipment was single level (and my wife liked the bedrooms better than she liked the bedrooms of the Superliners). I understand that it is possible to move dome cars through the tunnel if the move is made carefully.
Johnny
blue streak 1Clearances from CP Virginia to WASH station should have been no problem as superliner equipped Cardinals have operated now thru the tunnel?
Don't worry Dave, I'LL not critisise your memory or your accuracy. You were there Brother, I wasn't! I'm sure we'd like to hear more from you!
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