OK, back to the dress-up...
I'd be tickled pink to see the Reading and Northern's 425 done up as a Jersey Central "Blue Comet" steamer. Heck, with the paint scheme it has now it's almost there. I have to believe the "Comet" was the inspiration. All it needs is an Elesco feed water heater, or a reasonable approximation thereof.
Oh Pere Marquette, I certainly can't see Mighty 611 as "Thomas The Tank Engine". I CAN see 611 making a trip to the Isle of Sodor to beat up "Devious Diesel"!
"Git ovah heah boy, Ah got some business with yew!"
It has been stated twice in this thread that SR 4501 is a USRA light 2-8-2. Absolutely not. I may have contributed to this confusion when I called the engine an Ms-1, because Southern's Ms-1's were, indeed, USRA light 2-8-2's, built by Alco in 1918. Number 4501 is a class Ms engine, built by Baldwin in 1911. The two engines are roughly comparable in size. There are significant differences in valve gear hanger, cab design, tender design, etc. Number 4501's sandbox was replaced with one that resembles a USRA sandbox, and that adds to the illusion.
A CNJ Blue Comet? In addition to the Elesco FWH, number 425 would need to gain some weight and grow a wooten firebox to be at all convincing.
Tom
Yeah, 425 would have to bulk it up a bit to be 100% convincing, but you take what you can get.
It's all fun speculation anyway.
Firelock 76,
Ok lets get to the real culprit of all these interchangable railroad steam engine look alike locos.
WWI was upon the United States in 1917 and the Federal Govenment siezed control of all the railroads for military purposes. This introduced the United States Railroad Administration USRA - which standardized one or two locomotive designs in the idea that all railroads would use one build model.
Large numbers of steam locomotives were purchase between 1917 and 1920 and many railroads used almost identical engines. This is why many of the locomotives of the south look so similar. I'm not talking 4-8-4 which came later in history but the age of 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 many of these locos were very similar across the country. This great age of American steam saw much similarity.
During WWII the govenment did the same thing which is why UP 4-6-6-4 Challenger was built for so many eastern railroads. Which I might add they didn't seem to appreciate as much as Union Pacific did.
So for movie purposes some "fudging" of locomotive design is possible with USRA locomotives. Graham Claytor was always really put off that he could never get his hands on that great Southern PS4 Pacific 4-6-2 in the Smithsonian Collection in Washington. He made little 4501 hump like a 4-6-2 which the little 2-8-2 was never made to do.
He should have gone to Florida and rounded up one of the other USRA 4-6-2 designs this would have passed easily for a Southern Ps4 Pacific. That WWII C&O 2-8-4 Kawanha sure didn't look right in Southern paint and neither did the T&P 600 2-10-4. Was good to see them all run again though. Southern should have just run the C&O for what it was a C&O and the T&P as a T&P!
I thought the Chessie Steam Special with Reading RR 4-8-4 locomotives was particularly distasteful - it took Ross Rolland to impress upon CSX managment just what ugly was all about. I am glad I never saw C&O 611 in that hideous yellow paint job!
Yah! hideous is never a word I wanted to use with steam locomotives!
Doc
You know, Mr. Secretary Claytor ALMOST got the Atlanta and West Point 4-6-2 for his erzatz PS4, but there was a problem. The owners of said Pacific were perfectly willing to lease it to the Southern steam program but absolutely forbade removing the A&WP markings. That said, the deal fell through. Apparantly they weren't willing to sell it either.
Would have been cool to see that classic Georgian Pacific done as a PS4 though.
Ya know, the Brits do this renaming and renumbering thing all the time and they don't seem to get thier knickers in a knot and the Brits care very much about authenticity. So the "Bittern" was renamed "the Dominion of New Zealand" for a while. Everyone knew what it actually was, London Bridge didn't fall down and real ale still poured from the taps!
Since when is Florida overflowing with USRA Pacifics? The only one I know about is the CSX's engine in Jacksonville. It belonged to ACL, a competitor to Southern. It's smaller than a Ps4, and the existing ex-FEC 4-6-2's in Florida are smaller yet. And who could confuse an FEC light Pacific with a USRA anyway?
Dr D Yah! hideous is never a word I wanted to use with steam locomotives! Doc
He obviously never saw D&H 1400's, an IHB U-4a after the Elesco feedwater heater was removed or Big Alice the Goon.
54light15Ya know, the Brits do this renaming and renumbering thing all the time and they don't seem to get their knickers in a knot and the Brits care very much about authenticity.
But wasn't there something of a contretemps over the somewhat ham-handed renaming of Bristol Castle for the funeral train in 1952? The folks in charge of the then-new British Rail thinking nobody would notice?
Beats me. I wasn't born for another 3 years. But, think of all the steam running around Britain back then.
All right! thems figh'n words! You guys have insulted my girl "Big Alice The Goon!" And she's still there in Wisconson minus her gorgeous dress!
I liked her better than the the Dreyfuss bitches on the NYC. She was my AEOLUS! Fleet was her passing with those Timken high heel slippers! "She was my Keeper Of The Wind!"
For those of you that havn't caught it the Denver And Rio Grande narrow gauge is being portrayed nationally on cable TV. The "B Grade" move Bite The Bullet is showing on ENCRDC chanel 154 in the Detroit area.
Film was made on location in Colorado in 1975 and features company 2-8-2's - D&RGW 483 adn 484 not lettered for the railroad. Many scenes were taken along the line in the desert and in company buildings. Looks like Chama to me. Featured James Coburn, Candice Burgen and Gene Hackman.
Engines are not lettered except for engine number, have red painted axle centers and red painted cylinder covers and have the origianal stacks and polished brass trim. Rolling stock is authentic to the railroad passenger and freight with car names changed.
Story centers around a fictional Old West cross country horse race with the narrow gauge railroad as major star in the background
Better no lettering on the engine and tender than something so off the mark it's ridiculous.
I remember a "Gunsmoke" three-parter years ago that took place on a train. What was obviously the Sierra Railroad Number 3 had its tender labeled "Burlington Northern"! And this was supposed to be 1885!
Aside from the "What the..." factor, it was actually a pretty darn good episode.
Dr D All right! thems figh'n words! You guys have insulted my girl "Big Alice The Goon!" And she's still there in Wisconson minus her gorgeous dress! I liked her better than the the Dreyfuss bitches on the NYC. She was my AEOLUS! Fleet was her passing with those Timken high heel slippers! "She was my Keeper Of The Wind!" Doc
"Aeolus" served as protection power for the Twin Zephyrs. As such, it was sheathed in stainless steel in an attempt to make it look like a diesel. Such an attempt was doomed to failure as nothing looked as modern at the time as the stainless-steel shovelnose of the various Zephyr diesel-electric locomotives.
As for the Dreyfuss-styled Hudsons, I don't particularly like Scullin disc drivers (I prefer Boxpok) but they are a good example of the Art Deco design that was prevalent at that time.
Burlington 4-6-4 named AEOLUS had a sister engine also streamlined with her name lettered on the streamlining on the side of the smoke box. They locos also featured a large monogram on the nose of the engine "Keeper of the Wind." "Aeolus" is the name of the Greek god of the winds.
One of the two engines was equiped with roller bearing side rods and still has this equipment on display in Wisconson. Unfortunately the removal of the streamline shrouding left all these Burlington 4-6-4 Hudson locomotives looking just like their sister engines.
Very fast locomotives and I am sure they were with the general size increases of all American western railroads - I wonder if anyone is aware of any records they set? I think they were quite popular among the American towns they ran as at least three of them are saved on display out of a total of maybe 5 engines.
The Burlington Zephyr was the pioneer light weight streamline diesel passenger train of the late 1930s that caught the public fancy for new and modern design. I would think the steam power stand by status of these steam engies was way superior to the opperational ability of those early diesel powered Zephyrs.
I believe they saved one diesel Zephyr train set too as it was in the Chicago Science of Industry Museum stored outdoors with the NYC 999 and ATSF northern for years. Burlington RR kept some great railroad heritage for us. Also naming those streamline steam locomotives AEOLUS made them unique unlike the NYC Hudsons. Railroad workers called AEOLUS - "Big Alice the goon" or "Big Alice" a highly irreverent term but a handy one.
My experience with the name "Aeolus" is that the public confuses it with the anatomical term for the the nipple of a womans breast. A much more popular topic today that Greek gods! As such it remains a word connected now with eroticism, and like the attitudes of many of those old railroad workers is considered distasteful by modern "femenists." Politically uncorrect!
"Big Alice" was always my girl - wish she still had all that silver stainless steel shroud. Would love to see those "high heel slippers run today!"
Dr D The Burlington Zephyr was the pioneer light weight streamline diesel passenger train of the late 1930s that caught the public fancy for new and modern design. I would think the steam power stand by status of these steam engies was way superior to the opperational ability of those early diesel powered Zephyrs. I believe they saved one diesel Zephyr train set too as it was in the Chicago Science of Industry Museum stored outdoors with the NYC 999 and ATSF northern for years.
I believe they saved one diesel Zephyr train set too as it was in the Chicago Science of Industry Museum stored outdoors with the NYC 999 and ATSF northern for years.
Another Zepher is in St. Louis, and from what I hear, is in amazing condition.
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