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N&W Class J

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 19, 2014 3:23 PM

Is that rust on the front end of the boiler? How? She's been covered in jacketing and lagging and a roof for 20 years, how could it get there? Unless I'm wrong and it's weathering, or something else....

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Posted by selector on Friday, June 20, 2014 10:18 AM

It's just steel and condensation.  Same problem as the slow accumulation of water in the gas tank of a vehicle that sits for too long.

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Posted by Cwex on Friday, June 20, 2014 11:09 AM
Yeah humidity, condensation ect is all it takes. It's not a problem at all...normal actually.
Chris W
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 20, 2014 1:21 PM

OK, thanks for the explanation, guys!

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Posted by BigJim on Friday, June 20, 2014 2:47 PM

What I think would be neat is to run the 611 without the streamlining, ala, the war babies 605-610.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 20, 2014 3:35 PM

They'll probably steam her up for testing that way, so they have access to any leaking pipes or lines. Will they run her like that? Probably not. Most people like the class J's because of the stream lining. It would be to much of a hassle to take it and the frame underneath for it off.

Although it would be interesting to run it "Wartime-Style" It would be to hard to convert it, and I doubt it would attract anywhere near as many people to buy tickets.

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Posted by friend611 on Friday, June 20, 2014 3:37 PM
Unfortunately, the 611 is set up to operate only as streamlined, due to the design of the smokebox door, sand box and other details. If one of the group 605-610 had been saved along with 611, then that might be a possibility.
lois
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 20, 2014 4:24 PM

Oh well, we can always dream on...

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, June 20, 2014 4:51 PM

If it was originally made by man, it can be remade by man - for a price.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, June 20, 2014 5:11 PM

The streamlined J looks elegant, but those wartime unstreamlined J's looked brutal!

Just one man's opinion.

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Posted by Cwex on Friday, June 20, 2014 5:16 PM
I'm all for it! The rods are not correct but hey who cares, an un-schrouded J would be sweeeeeet.
Chris W
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Posted by friend611 on Friday, June 20, 2014 5:50 PM
However, the J I will always admire will be the streamlined version. Beautiful, racy, feminine. The 611 was simply meant to be a queen.
lois
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 20, 2014 6:34 PM

Agreed.

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Posted by BigJim on Friday, June 20, 2014 8:08 PM

friend611
Unfortunately, the 611 is set up to operate only as streamlined, due to the design of the smokebox door, sand box and other details. If one of the group 605-610 had been saved along with 611, then that might be a possibility.
lois

Who told you that?

.

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Posted by friend611 on Friday, June 20, 2014 8:27 PM
My husband informed me of the matter at first, he being an expert on the J's as well as running the 611 in excursion service. I also did some study of photos of the 611 under restoration (in 1981-1982) and came to my own conclusions about the matter.
I also have been taking careful note of the photos of the present restoration, to learn more about the 611 as well as note how the J was so finely designed and built. The J was surely in a class of its own when it came to modern steam passenger locomotives.
lois
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Posted by BigJim on Saturday, June 21, 2014 3:56 AM

Unfortunately, the 611 is set up to operate only as streamlined, due to the design of the smokebox door, sand box and other details.


Lois,
Granted, I have not seen any pictures of the smokebox front cover and door during this rebuild, however, there had to be something behind that bullet nose. It most definitely wasn't the only thing between it and the barrel of the smokebox. Something had to be there to protect the nose from the heat and make the smokebox draft properly. I'll bet you a dollar to a dozen donuts that there is a normal smokebox door there.
{Now that I think of it, it seems to me that there was a picture published (maybe in TRAINS) back in "81-'82 of a bare boiler, with normal smokebox front, 611 sticking her nose out of the shops at Birmingham,AL. during a boiler test.}

I really have to  wonder why in the wide wide world of sports you would even think that the sand box had any thing to do with it?  Being the Class J aficionado that you claim to be, haven't you even looked at the plans of the Class J? Or, better yet the Class K1? If you had, you would have seen that the sand box (on both) is as designed and that it had its own sheetmetal covering to, shall I say, smooth out the appearance. 

What other details? The streamlining has nothing to do with appliances that are needed for the operation of the locomotive. Also, remember that near the end, they were removing the very top of the skyline casing for easier maintenance of the appliances on top of the boiler. 

As I said before, it would be neat to see it run unstreamlined, at least for a short time. However, that was just a thought. Having to remove the skyline framework would be required, then new sheathing for the upper (but more likely the entire length of) boiler and a headlight and bracket. Yes, the costs would be prohibitive, but, it is not as far fetched as you want to make it.

Remember, the wartime J's were probably some of the cleanest cut locomotives out there even without all of the streamlining. There really wasn't much there to hide. Back then, it wasn't that big of a project to add the streamlining near the end of the war when the government let them have the steel to do it.

.

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Posted by GP40-2 on Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:57 AM

BigJim is correct on this. Streamlined steam locomotives are just regular steam designs with sheet metal added for the visual effect. You can add it or take it off as you please. For example, the B&O P7 Class had streamlining similar to the J that was removed in the end to make servicing easier. The C&O 614 was originally designed to be streamlined, but the C&O never applied it. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, June 21, 2014 10:27 AM

I found a video on YouTube, showing the rebuild of 611 back in the 80's. At the 5:23 mark, you can see the bullet nose casing come off, revealing a normal smoke box door underneath. If you wish to view this very interesting video, here is the ULR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeuPEE-Meso&index=8&list=WL

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:31 AM

Thank you, S. Connor, for that video. Seeing it brought back memories of that which ended 31 December 1957, when the N&W began operating the Southern's diesels through on the trains that ran through Bristol.

I had only two rides behind a J, both in 1956, when I rode #17 from Radford to Bristol, and #46 from Bristol to Wytheville.

However, I often went into Bristol after supper to stand by the ready track and look at the engine that was take #42 to Roanoke and perhaps to Monroe. At one time or another, I may have seen every J, as once in a while I was in town when #45 came in (during school, I could not get back to the college in time for supper had I been in town for that train), and I watched #17 come in when I was going down to Chattanooga.

Had I not moved to Utah in 1974, I would probably have ridden behind 611 when it was pulling excursions out of Birmingham--but that was not to be.

Thank you again.

Johnny

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Posted by Cwex on Saturday, June 21, 2014 1:05 PM
There is no difference in smoke box door design or shape on the 605-610 as compared to the 611, the exception being the headlight mounting bracket. As for the sandbox shape you have to realize that what you see in photos of the 605-610 is the jacketing over the sandbox itself creating that soft angle outward at the base. The sandbox itself has sides that taper inward at a pretty sharp angle to allow for better flow. In viewing many photos and design drawings through the years I think what makes it hard in terms of seeing the details in photos is the glossy black paint such as is seen on the photos of the 605 which were taken when she was out shopped in Roanoke. For a (freight hog) she sure had some nicely painted jacketing on her, even on her firebox sides like the "A's"....all in all....very nice looking. I swear Roanoke produced the best...period!
Chris W
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Posted by Paul of Covington on Saturday, June 21, 2014 2:38 PM

   Thanks for that video, S. Conner, though it cost me a couple of tears.

_____________ 

  "A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, June 23, 2014 9:46 PM

One item that all of us should desire is the work of disassembly.   Each removal of  every bolt, screw, part, and sub part should be documented catalogued & numbered.  This should be in the order of removal to be used for reassembly and future repairs.  This will take the effort of several volunteers full time.. 

There is equipment available that will allow each part to be scanned and produce a CAD drawing.    

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Posted by Cwex on Sunday, June 29, 2014 5:43 PM
With the updates that are being posted on the F/B page I am really impressed with all the work to date. They are moving forward far faster than I would have expected, which surely reflects on how well she was put away. The parts are coming off and she is well on the way to being ready for 2015. It's about time the Blue Ridge came alive with the sounds of the N&W once again.
Chris W
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Posted by BigJim on Monday, June 30, 2014 8:24 AM

A photo of the smokebox front/door from the 611 facebook page:

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Posted by Cwex on Sunday, July 6, 2014 12:32 PM
Yep...it's the same.
Chris W

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