Has anyone seen a flying switch move?

[Anonymous]

This topic hase come up before has anyone out there seen a flying switch move done ;[8D]i have and it is realy exicting>>>> glennbob

[kenneo]

Presumably you mean a drop?

[Anonymous]

I thought they hadn't done those since the steam days, for safety reasons.

[Anonymous]

A flying switch is more than a drop the one i saw worked like this>>> the sd-9 switch engin had a car in tow it wanted it in the siding on a parallel track the switch forked in front of the engin so it went like this; the engin speeded up pulled the box car toward the***ch, uncuppled ,ran way ahead of the moving box car when the engin had passed the switch the switchman threw the switch to the sidding the breakman road the car into the sidding and set the brake and spotted the car where they wanted it then lined the switch back to the main the engin backed up picked up the breakman and then the switchman >>>realy exciting to watch[:O][:O][:O][bow][;)]glennbob

[Anonymous]

I thougt that's what is was, I would love to see one.

[Anonymous]

You just described a "drop"! I know the Nickel Plate was still making them in the mid 1960's.

[Anonymous]

OK its called a drop; but dosen't flying switch sound more exciting????

[Anonymous]

The flying switch i saw was only within the last 5 years so its still being done glennbob

[Anonymous]

These moves used to be common. The New York Central's Putnam Division, a rural 53 mile line that started near Yankee Stadium and went 53 miles northward had many flying switches, also called "switching on the fly". They occured on most secondary lines and local yards if rules and topography allowed. It was an extremely useful practice that saved a lot of time. The excitement came not only from how well the flying car or cut or cars was separated, but how the brakeman threw the switches between rolling train segments going in the same direction but not far apart from each other. Among the needed skills was the ability of the engine to accelerate rapidly after the cut in order to give the brakeman enough time to throw the iron to redirect the "flying" part of the train. The engine crew had to simultaneously calculate their own stopping distance after they accelerated - they didn't want to hit any standing cars ahead of them, and also how far the flying cut would go into the siding or diverging route. Who "pulled the pin" (uncoupling lever) and where was something that was carefully considered. Often it was the rider who would brake the cut to a stop. Sometimes a cut had a rider on it to brake one car mechanically, using a "hick" or wooden stick on its brake wheel. Other times the cars just drifted to a stop at a fairly predicitable spot, and still other times they made iron by hitting a standing cut of cars at the proper coupling speed. All of this was subject to the temperature, for cars with warm bearing have journals that roll more easily than cars that have very cold bearings, where the journal waste might make the axle relatively stiff.
A good cutting crew was a ballet show in motion, with the locomotive going this way and that, brakemen crossing and recrossing tracks, switches being thrown quickly and then aligned for the next move carefully. The cars being moved were without air because the pulling away of the cut would part the air hoses and set the cars into emergency if the air cocks were not closed to the train line. This put a lot more demand on the engine's independent brake to stop the cars still attached to it. Some switching engines had long brake handles so the engineer could lean out of the cab to get good vision and still use the handle. Hand signals were precise,. Most railroad yards were filthy with hazardous footing, yet accidents were not common. Many moves were made just to take the brakeman to a new location. Safety was paramount, and railroaders really watched out for one another. You didn't move if you did not see your crew members. When all the action was over, the switches and derails were lined and locked in their "normal" position, not "reverse", the brakeman was where he belonged on the train, dropped cars were "tied down" with their handbrakes and/or skates, cars still with the engine were charged with air, and train orders were re-read for the move to the next location. Waybills for the dropped cars were left with the operator or in a lock box and waybills for picked up cars were placed in the caboose. This was before computers came about. Scale model railroaders try to do realistic flat yard switching, toy train modelers rarely if ever do. It was exciting and interesting. Ask me about "poling" some time...

[Anonymous]

I have never seen poling done; but i know it was a way to move a car on a paralel track using a wood poll .the old gp-7 and ps-1 box cars had a dimple called a poling pocket[8D][^]glennbob

[robscaboose]

[|)][|)]I won't say where, but I was the brakemen riding the car on a flying switch. When it was first purposed to me, I was told that I looked like I had the "old deer in the headlight" syndrome! It was really exciting & and went off as expected.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I have watched a drop accomplished only twice, it's a move that's discouraged because it requires a lot of precision to pull off successfully, a situation which increases the likelihood of a foul-up somewhere along the line.

Poling is an incredibly hazardous procedure that thankfully has been outlawed.

[coalminer3]

Drops - not all that uncommon on mine shifters. I have also seen it done with cutting cabs off trains back in the day when there were such things. Reply to Fayette - I agree abt everyhting moving around. I always thought of a good shortstop/second base combination executing a double play involving fast baserunners. As you suggest, experience trumps everything - you have to know where everone is at all times.

Poling? Truly scary!

work safe

[dknelson]

The last flying switch I saw was on the C&NW at Sterling Illinois at the interchange with the (now closed) Northwestern Steel & Wire industrial railroad. I think this was spring 1980.
The CNW engine (maybe a GP7) was gunned and made an awesome noise, then throttled down, but the boxcar that was being "flying switched" was listing from side to side like a top heavy toy boat in a bathtub. I saw no way it could stay on the rails but somehow it did. I have never seen a freight car listing from side to side like that.
I did not get a photo of it but I do have a tape recording of my friend yelling about it. I wonder if he got it on video?
My recollection is that nobody was riding the car (I hope not!) and that it was allowed to roll pretty freely into the siding.
By the way the reason I was tape recording was that at this time, about 1980 or so, the Northwestern Steel & Wire still used steam locomotives, and a former Grand Trunk 0-8-0 was waiting to pick up cars from the CNW local. That same day we also saw NS&W detail some empty ingot cars in their yard
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Some really great postings guys ;.must have been a thrill to ride on a flying switch car... I was told of a story that happeded here in colorado back in the gold mining days... a car full of gold concentrate ore broke loose and was rolling down the hill picking up speed the crew reacted swiftly and chased the car ;one of the crew climbed out on the cow catcher it was in the days of the link and pin cupplers held the link up as the engin cought up with the speeding car then dropped in the pin and the engin stopped the car. everyone got to keep their job that day[:O][:O][:O][bow]>>>glennbob [angel][:)]

[kkasten]

I've seen a couple and they are cool to watch

[Anonymous]

I agree with u KKasten they are cool to watch >>has anyone else out there seen one[bow][bow] Glennbob

[PBenham]

I have seen one on a fan trip on a short line that shall remain nameless! The descriptions are all accurate, since there are lots of places where there just isn't enough track to do what needs doing! The last time I saw one executed, the crew involved caught an unpaid 15 day vacation! One of the Perpetrators, the "leader" of the crew was on a flight to Florida that same day! His golf clubs were in his car's trunk with his luggage packed.[;)]

[dldance]

I used to see them all the time when I was a kid. I also saw one miss -- a switch was thrown too early -- the trailing wheels of the GP9 went on the ground -- and the box car to be dropped came to a sudden stop -- blocking a main highway crossing! I suspect there were both an unhappy trainmaster and an unhappy roadmaster that day.

dd

[espeefoamer]

I saw one many years ago at an industrial siding near my home.I won,t name the railroad[;)],but they have yellow diesels and are famous for swallowing up other railroads[}:)].

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kkasten

I've seen a couple and they are cool to watch

has anyone seen any other varaitions of the flying switch move[?][?]>>>>glennbob[:)][B)][}:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fayette

These moves used to be common. The New York Central's Putnam Division, a rural 53 mile line that started near Yankee Stadium and went 53 miles northward had many flying switches, also called "switching on the fly". They occured on most secondary lines and local yards if rules and topography allowed. It was an extremely useful practice that saved a lot of time. The excitement came not only from how well the flying car or cut or cars was separated, but how the brakeman threw the switches between rolling train segments going in the same direction but not far apart from each other. Among the needed skills was the ability of the engine to accelerate rapidly after the cut in order to give the brakeman enough time to throw the iron to redirect the "flying" part of the train. The engine crew had to simultaneously calculate their own stopping distance after they accelerated - they didn't want to hit any standing cars ahead of them, and also how far the flying cut would go into the siding or diverging route. Who "pulled the pin" (uncoupling lever) and where was something that was carefully considered. Often it was the rider who would brake the cut to a stop. Sometimes a cut had a rider on it to brake one car mechanically, using a "hick" or wooden stick on its brake wheel. Other times the cars just drifted to a stop at a fairly predicitable spot, and still other times they made iron by hitting a standing cut of cars at the proper coupling speed. All of this was subject to the temperature, for cars with warm bearing have journals that roll more easily than cars that have very cold bearings, where the journal waste might make the axle relatively stiff.
A good cutting crew was a ballet show in motion, with the locomotive going this way and that, brakemen crossing and recrossing tracks, switches being thrown quickly and then aligned for the next move carefully. The cars being moved were without air because the pulling away of the cut would part the air hoses and set the cars into emergency if the air cocks were not closed to the train line. This put a lot more demand on the engine's independent brake to stop the cars still attached to it. Some switching engines had long brake handles so the engineer could lean out of the cab to get good vision and still use the handle. Hand signals were precise,. Most railroad yards were filthy with hazardous footing, yet accidents were not common. Many moves were made just to take the brakeman to a new location. Safety was paramount, and railroaders really watched out for one another. You didn't move if you did not see your crew members. When all the action was over, the switches and derails were lined and locked in their "normal" position, not "reverse", the brakeman was where he belonged on the train, dropped cars were "tied down" with their handbrakes and/or skates, cars still with the engine were charged with air, and train orders were re-read for the move to the next location. Waybills for the dropped cars were left with the operator or in a lock box and waybills for picked up cars were placed in the caboose. This was before computers came about. Scale model railroaders try to do realistic flat yard switching, toy train modelers rarely if ever do. It was exciting and interesting. Ask me about "poling" some time...

OK NOW is the time to ask you about poling what is your take on ]this manover [bow][bow][bow][4:-)][C):-)]>>>>glennbob

[tjsmrinfo]

i have 1 time in idaho and didnt even know it till it was over and done with, if i had known it i woulda had my camera out.

tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tjsmrinfo

i have 1 time in idaho and didnt even know it till it was over and done with, if i had known it i woulda had my camera out.

tom

They switch consists here in the local MRL yard mostly by flying switch, at night, with the remote controlled engine, here in Missoula. I've stopped and watched it a few times, heck of a thing. You've got anywhere from 2 to even 6 strings rolling at any one time, and if they do everything right each one couples onto the consist ready to be laced up. They have an electric/remote switching panel system so noone has to run around manually moving levers, but the cars still have to be uncoupled.

Stumbled on this site (and post) simply by accident looking for footage of this in action. I wish I had a video camera and I'd catch these guys in action some night.

[CCDeWeese]

I recall seeing several at various times 1958 - 1963 while working as an agent-operator for IC and NYC. No specifics come to mind. It was a non-routine but regular move, normally done under controllable conditions, and if I recall correctly, covered by the operating rules (engine on straight track, switch operation tested befoe the move, handbrakes on car tested before the move, etc.)

Later, when I was General Superintendent of TRRA (1974-1978), on a late Saturday morning or early Saturday afternoon, Billy O Matthews, an operating officer, called me and said that we needed to make a drop on a car near Grand Avenue and that the crew did not want to do it. We had no rule against it, and so I went to the site, Billy O and I made the move, (I think he pulled the pin and I threw the switch), it worked just fine, and the crew went about their other work. I personally don't see much wrong with the practice in general, but I understand it is now prohibited.

[Anonymous]

Even though managemnt frowns on dropping cars, it still takes place quite often at several locations. There is a local, at a nameless location, which drops its train into the yd if safe to do so often. Usually no more than 20 cars are involved but the most I witnessed was 42. Instead of dragging the train down to the other end of the yd and bringing the pwr back, after stopping and picking what trk to use, both angle cocks are closed (bottling the air), pin is pulled, switch lined, one crewman riding the head car. After the rear car clears the lead, the engr pops the HTD, which is linked to the ETD, which in turn causes the cars to stop. This is a controlled move as there is three ways to stop the movement.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sammythebull

Even though managemnt frowns on dropping cars, it still takes place quite often at several locations.

Yeah I should note that it is only under *controlled* conditions they do it. on a night like tonight (raining, well freezing rain, crappy visibility/etc) they're much mroe careful. i still occasionally hear very non-gentle coupling occasionally (i can't see, but from my bedroom i can hear, and sometimes it's disturbingly hard BANGs) but to my knowledge no accidents.

[spokyone]

When I was working at a shake mill in Idaho, I saw a flying switch maneuver (drop)  because they forgot to set out the empty on the way out, then a few days later the same crew  on the local had to pole a loaded car because they forgot to pick it up on the way out. That was in 1979. Those guys scared me. Seemed like they were always in a hurry.

[traisessive1]

The CROR here in Canada calls those running switches. I have seen CN crews on more than one occasion make those moves. They are still very common.

I don't know if this has been said .. but a drop is not a running (or flying) switch. A drop is just where you uncouple the engine and pull it into a siding or spur and let gravity roll the cars past the switch so the engine can be on the other side.

The running switch needs 3 crew members and the drop only needs 2 as the cars are rolling downhill on their own from a stop.

[Wyonate]

When I was growing up in the 80's, in central Wyoming,  I seen one or two.  At the time I was to young to know excactly what was going on but I do remember what they were doing.