Trackside Guide to Cincinnati

[Anonymous]

Changes, corrections, or comments on TRAINS Magazine's Trackside Guide to Cincinnati? Post 'em here! We start you off with a recent update:

Excellent work on the Trackside Guide #1! The maps are works of art, and serve as excellent references to the area. I would like to add a few items:
- The yard shown as ‘Lockland’ yard is called Maplewood yard.
- The CSX (CK) Cincinnati Terminal dispatcher controls from Butler Street interlocking in Hamilton, where they take over from the AR dispatcher.
- As of Monday August 5, 2002, CP-248 on the NS Dayton District was relinquished to the NS Lake District/New Castle desk. This is an attempt to smooth movements from the ‘directional’ running Lake District line from Butler Street in Hamilton to CSX’s NA Tower (Ivorydale Junction). Trains now use AAR radio channel 22: 160.440.
-The ex-Conrail NS lines in the area have abandoned the NORAC Form ‘D’ mechanism to authorize movements and Track and Time permits, in favor of Track Warrants and rulebook 23A forms. Also, all interlockings are now referred to as CP (Controlled points), in addition to their geographic locations.

A little-known location in the area was the tri-level crossing, similar to the one in Richmond, Virginia. This was on the banks of the Ohio, at the East end of B&O’s Storrs’ Yard. The B&O’s St. Louis line (ex-Ohio&Mississippi, ex-B&O Southwestern) ended at their depot located on Cincinnati’s riverfront. This depot was later abandoned in favor of other facilities, and the stub became an industrial lead along the riverfront. This B&O lead was at ground level, and the Cincinnati Union Terminal’s Southwest Connection (for passenger trains to/from the B&O and New York Central) passed over it on a viaduct. Over both of these was the Southern’s (ex-Cincinnati Southern, ex-Cincinnati, New Orleans and Texas Pacific) Ohio River bridge. Today, only the B&O lead and Southern Bridge remain, the CUT’s bridgework being removed in the late 1970’s.

Best regards,
Bob Zoellner
Cincinnati OH

[Anonymous]

Great reference!
Since Hamilton was included, surprised that the Great Miami RR wasn't mentioned. It operates between Wood Yard and the ex Champion Paper plant. That curved track shown as CSX east of the yard is their route.
Dan Carter

[RudyRockvilleMD]

I agree, the Cincinnati trackside guide is excellent. I am a little biased because I was born there, and I used to visit it quite often.

The trackside guide listed several photography or train watching locations in nearby Kentucky, giving scanner frequencies etc. For those who may not be aware of it, Kentucky and Indiana both require permits for using scanners in public places (presumeably at trackside) as well as using them in cars. How do railfans in the Cincinnati area get around the requirements for permits to use scanners at trackside? Is it possible to ignore that restriction without getting into too much trouble?

[favuprailroadfan]

I really enjoyed the Trackside Guide #1 about Cinninnati. I am from Kansas and really don't get to see much action. I live about 8 hrs. from K.C. so anytime that I want to go watch, I have to drive a day to get there. I am closer to North Platte NB, than I am to K.C. I really like the im depth on this place. I never knew that Cinny was so busy. Its amazing how they fit all those rail lines in that small area. I had never seen a line do a loop like that one line did next to the river. It almost looks like a interstate on-ramp. I just hope that they do K.C. and Chicago when they continue this series. There are many other places that I would like to see in this.

Excellent Job, Dru Schott

[Anonymous]

Very good article! I am a German railroad enthusiast specially interested in the world's hump yards and thus also interested in all major railroad complexes worldwide. Very interesting for me because most other articles in railfan magazines are about locomotives and not railroad installations! But for further articles in this series I ask you please to indicate the number of tracks of the freight yards within the enlargement maps. Further the small orientation map should show the city which is subject of the article in its centre and not on the edge because unfortunately Cincinnati lies on the southwestern corner of Ohio and thus there is no overview abiut the railroad lines in the Western and Southern directions, while I think for orientation it is less important to show the whole state of Ohio then the whole surroundings of Cincinnati.

PS. Is the line to Corby really single-tracked within the area of the former De Coursey hump yard?

Thank you!

Best greetings from Münster (Westfalen) in Northwest Germany (about 50 km north of the Ruhr bassin) from:

Michael.

[Anonymous]

Have not really heard any recent debate on 'scanner laws' and their enforcement. I had obtained an copy of a letter from the Indiana Attournay Generals Office basically saying the the use of programable scanners was 'legal' (in cars) was acceptable as long as no law enforcement channels were programed. The opinion was in reference to individuals who have a valid HAM liscense. I inquired to obtain the same from Kentucky and was told basically the same applied but they did not want to issue a written opinion. I guess to sum it all up, the legal opinion was that as long as no crime was being committed and there were no law enforcement channels programmed that listening to a scanner in an automobile was acceptable.

[Anonymous]

The Trackside Guides are an excellent idea, and the Cincinnati one is extremely interesting and well-researched.

A few suggestions:

1. Where a feature is mentioned, make sure that it's marked on the map(s). For instance, the Cincinnati Southern, the Miami & Erie Canal and the never-completed subway are mentioned in the introduction, but I couldn't see them identified on the maps (unless the Tunnel marked in Downtown is the subway).

2. Mark the routes of passenger trains, with their schedules - it would be interesting to know at what times the Cardinal is scheduled to call at CUT.

3. Comparing the maps with those in Mike Walker's Railroad Atlas Great Lakes East, it looks as if not all abandoned lines are marked, and there are inconsistencies between maps - for instance, the C&O Cheviot Hill Line is marked on p3, but not on pp8/9.

4. How about an indication of where streetcars and interurbans (assuming that Cincinnati had them) ran?

5. Expand the location map inset on p3 so that it indicates where the lines go to: references to lines ending up at Chattanooga, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne etc are hard to place for those of us who are unfamiliar with the area.

I look forward to others in the series: how about Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston, Seattle, Atlanta, Washington DC, Kansas City?

I hope these comments help.

Mike M - from New Zealand, where the entire country's railroading could just about fit into one Trackside Guide!

[Anonymous]

I missed that issue, could you please tell me when this was published?

i live in hamilton , and from reading the responces, seems i have been missing some things. I was just at the Butler st watching trains, and there are quite afew trains that run thru the area. i need to get down into cincy and across the bridge.

Please let me know what issue that was. thanks

[e-mail]

[bowlerp]

General comments: this is a very interesting and well done new feature of TRAINS. We live in northern Ohio and travel to Cincinnati 2-3 times per year to visit relatives. Usually we go to coincide with Holidays and since they live a mile from Davis Trains, we do the Thanksgiving open house.

I would like to have more information on conditions on the ground at the locations you highlight. Some basic street directions, and safety concerns would be much appreciated. I would guess that many people may not be entirely comfortable visiting some of the places unless they have more specific guidance. Cincinnati is a large, complicated metro area, and strangers in town will be intimidated in certain places, and will find it difficult to locate some of the key places.

Otherwise, an excellent job and I look forward to many more in the future. You covered most of the things we need to know, and with the addition of a little more, these will be perfect. You might envision compiling them into paper bound books like a Rand McNally.

Pete Bowler, Cleveland, Ohio

[Anonymous]

excellent article, but it missed one vital piece of track, at winton place.
b&o passenger trains to and from lima-toledo used to have about a half-
mile backup move to get them across spring grove ave. from the b&o
track on the east to the freight track coming up on the west this diagonal
track from southwest to northeast was essential to move passenger trains
to and from lima-toledo routing. i rode the passenger trains on this routing.

it is just probable the connection was needed to move freight trains as
well from one side to the other before queensgate was built. these would
be freight trains to-from the chillicothe-parkersburg routing.
theo sommerkamp columbus oh.

but all in all, excellent piece of work.