Be Prepared For Higher Gas Prices

[Modelcar]

....I still find it easy to pick out a diesel vehicle in our traffic locally.  In fact, I find myself automatically looking around as we smell diesel from a vehicle as we wait for a stop light or whatever stopped for in traffic.

I agree, diesels are much better now, in this regard of being annoying, than they were a decade ago.

[Semper Vaporo]

.....But....gasoline we have to have and cola, really...we don't.  Cola, if I remember correctly, was in 7oz. bottles {Coca Cola}, when it was 5 cents....And gasoline was {in my lifetime}, as low as 6 for 1.00...!

The thing that concerns me now....Our gas price was 3.49 some weeks ago and now it's as low {yes, now we think that's low}, as 2.89...!!  It's a mind game with them.  Perhaps the big ratchet up is not far away.

My point exactly.  Gas we "have to have" and cola is a luxury (of sorts).  The taxes on gas are a large portion of the cost to us consumers and yet the luxury item is cheaper.

I remember getting gas at 10 cents per gallon one evening at a regular "gas war" betwixt two stations not far from where we lived.

Oh, and it was "Pepsi" (tm) that sold in 12-oz bottles for the same price (5-cents) as "Coca Cola" (tm) that was in 10-oz bottles.  That was their big selling point. "12 full ounces, that's a lot; Pepsi Cola hits the spot."  (That might have been "12 FLUID ounces" instead of "12 FULL ounces", I never could quite understand the people singing the jingle.  (This is terrible, I even actually remember the tune of that jingle!  AAAAARRrrrrggggg!)

 

[Modelcar]

....A little side note:  Talking about Cola's when they were in glass bottles, etc....My family owned and run an Esso Station in Pennsylvania for years and one day as the local distributor was nearing our business {on rt. 30}, he was involved in an accident and the truck rolled over and all the cases {wooden}, were knocked out of the truck and all over the main east / west route...with as much broken glass as one would care to see on the highway....What a mess.

[MP173]

As Don mentioned, oil and gasoline are commodities and are subject to supply and demand pressures.  Gasoline and diesel are refined, so another supply issue comes into play (refinery capacity).

I read somewhere that it takes 9 years to build a refinery from the time it is planned until the gasoline is finally produced.  Anyone here want to invest in such a project?

Think about where you will be in 2016 and ask yourself...do I want to wait that long for a return on investment?

ed

[selector]

.....But....gasoline we have to have and cola, really...we don't.  Cola, if I remember correctly, was in 7oz. bottles {Coca Cola}, when it was 5 cents....And gasoline was {in my lifetime}, as low as 6 for 1.00...!

The thing that concerns me now....Our gas price was 3.49 some weeks ago and now it's as low {yes, now we think that's low}, as 2.89...!!  It's a mind game with them.  Perhaps the big ratchet up is not far away.

It says a lot about us as a culture when we bee eye tee ceee aitch about the cost of gasoline, which most of us have to have in order to make a living, but we still keep the major suppliers of soft drinks healthy with stuff we pee out only an hour later that costs at least as much, usually more.  We buy bottled water that is five times the cost of gasoline!  The stuff out of our taps must be for the little people...I guess.

When gas gets to $8.00/gal, we'll be close to what they pay in most of Europe.  Long way to go yet.

[Modelcar]

....Europe not a good comparison.....Their gasoline price {taxes}, pays for a bunch of social programs.  We're of course taxed, but not anyway near the European model.

[Anonymous]

When some politicians offer to stick it to Big Oil, they might appear to be speaking on behalf of the consumer outrage over high gas prices.  However, many of these same politicians say gas prices should be even higher to encourage conservation.  They would accomplish this by adding taxes, thus giving us those more enlightened European prices, upwards of $6-7 per gallon.  So when they seem to be in sympathy with our pain at the pump, their real concern is the pain they feel about the high price going to Big Oil instead of going to Big Government. 

[Modelcar]

....Politicians have been rattling around in D C for decades spouting about we need a "tax" to curtail consumption.....Who knows what the answer really is.  Listening to all the "noise", it's my opinion we need some more capacity to refine the products.

But if even we could make that happen I wonder then if someone along the chain would decide we have too much supply, and turn down that supply a bit, and hence keep the prices high as they are now.

If we can believe what we are being told the oil suppliers have cut back supply considerably below their capacity to produce pushing prices high and making sure they stay there.

Why we waste our young lives and nations resources, going over there to "protect these suppliers" is beyond me.  We need to leverage our side towards them once....After all, we're the largest cusotmers.

[solzrules]

If we can believe what we are being told the oil suppliers have cut back supply considerably below their capacity to produce pushing prices high and making sure they stay there.

 

This is the exact stated purpose of OPEC.  As long as we are beholden to them, we will pay whatever price they think we will pay.  OPEC has stated that they feel oil should be around 60-70 bucks per barrel.  Strangely enough, this is exactly what we have been paying.  I suppose if they felt we could absorb oil at 100 bucks a barrel then they would constrict supply to produce that price.  OPEC is a cartel.  As long as we let them dictate the supply of oil, then we will pay their price. 

[Anonymous]

It is my firm belief that they can place a "Tax" on that gallon of gasoline and try to discourage me from buying that gasoline.

Since Katrina I have watched gasoline get close to 4.00 a gallon and absolutely no slow down in the morning commute downtown. The people are buying gasoline any way they can get it; including credit card debt if need be.

In my home, I dont pay attention to the cost per gallon I want that tank filled each week without any shorts at the pump. If you want my attention, ration gasoline to odd-even days, dig out the ABC cards from world war two or not have any gas at all availible.

Then I will be looking into other ways to make our work happen each week. But to raise prices in order to "Discourage" me from using gasoline does not work. I have enough room built into my budget to withstand such increases up to and including my monthly allowance for trains if need be.

Having said this, I see several times a week people who need to choose between a tank of gas, medicines or food. Sometimes they get gas first, food second and medicines last and endure hardships to get to the next paycheck.

Or some times just get gas, skip the medicines and not eat very much at all to survive the current pay period.

From the sound of the cars going by with very high dollar sound systems, some folks spend thousands and have the resources to cruise around 24/7 regardless of gas prices.

That is unacceptable to me.

[Anonymous]

Anybody that is selling a supply of something is going to limit that supply if he can get a higher price and make more money overall, even though he is selling less quantity.  If OPEC decided to double the price of oil, they might end up making less money overall than they are now because the higher price would reduce demand.  From our perspective, it may seem like OPEC has a gun to our heads, but you have to look at it from their perspective.  Nothing could be worse for them than to have all that oil and nobody wanting to buy it.  There is no conspiracy, just the beauty of supply and demand.

[Anonymous]

Anybody that is selling a supply of something is going to limit that supply if he can get a higher price and make more money overall, even though he is selling less quantity.  If OPEC decided to double the price of oil, they might end up making less money overall than they are now because the higher price would reduce demand.  From our perspective, it may seem like OPEC has a gun to our heads, but you have to look at it from their perspective.  Nothing could be worse for them than to have all that oil and nobody wanting to buy it.  There is no conspiracy, just the beauty of supply and demand.

Which it is our duty as a Nation to unify and produce domestic vehicles running on fuels we control. Not Middle east, opec or anyone. If that means getting rid of gasoline and Desiel. So be it.

Nothing will please me more than to see Iran, Saudi and all the rest sit in the sands on top of fuel that the USA wont need or use.

If enough of USA, Europe gets off the oil imports OPEC will survey the oil wells and see them sitting still and not pumping very much if at all. THEN the supply will be overflowing and the costs will drop to 10 dollars a barrel. That is the very thing OPEC does not want.

It's too bad because we have the Gulf, deep sea drilling, ANWAR etc.. but no one is sufficient backbone to stand up and actually make it happen.

[Modelcar]

....Don't forget the "T" Stamps of WWII....{Tractor gas}, but a lot of it went into automobiles.

[oltmannd]

Anybody that is selling a supply of something is going to limit that supply if he can get a higher price and make more money overall, even though he is selling less quantity.  If OPEC decided to double the price of oil, they might end up making less money overall than they are now because the higher price would reduce demand.  From our perspective, it may seem like OPEC has a gun to our heads, but you have to look at it from their perspective.  Nothing could be worse for them than to have all that oil and nobody wanting to buy it.  There is no conspiracy, just the beauty of supply and demand.

Which it is our duty as a Nation to unify and produce domestic vehicles running on fuels we control. Not Middle east, opec or anyone. If that means getting rid of gasoline and Desiel. So be it.

Nothing will please me more than to see Iran, Saudi and all the rest sit in the sands on top of fuel that the USA wont need or use.

If enough of USA, Europe gets off the oil imports OPEC will survey the oil wells and see them sitting still and not pumping very much if at all. THEN the supply will be overflowing and the costs will drop to 10 dollars a barrel. That is the very thing OPEC does not want.

It's too bad because we have the Gulf, deep sea drilling, ANWAR etc.. but no one is sufficient backbone to stand up and actually make it happen.

I'm a bit confused.  Are you advocating energy independence on a permanent basis or temporary basis?

We import (net) about half of the oil we consume.  That's a big target. 

Even if we drilled holes all over America, we'd never come close to making up the 1/2 we're now importing.  ANWAR is a drop in the bucket.  And, the cost to find and develop new sources or petroleum in the US would be greater than that for the foreign, imported oil.

Conservation will only get you so far.  You can do all sorts of things to encourage conservation like high taxes on energy, higer CAFE stds. for cars, etc.  But these will really hammer the economy and only make a dent in consumption.

You could tax/subsidize alternate sources of energy.  You can do coal liqification, oil shale, ethanol, etc., but these sources are expensive to develop and get into production and require a long term commitment in order to be a profitable venture.  That probably means some sort of gov't price support if you want to get them going right now.

Now, suppose we do all that stuff and decide to live with $5 or $6/gallon cost equivalent for transportation fuels and 50% higher utility bills, plus much higher prices for food and goods (fertilizer and plasitcs) and the recession they will cause.   I think you're right, that world oil prices would tumble.  So, the rest of the world - China, India, etc. get $25/bbl oil while we're paying $100 for equivalent energy.  How do you think that would sit politically and economically?  I don't think you can gear up for energy independence as an "object lesson" for OPEC. It's a long term, high cost commitment.

Why not do this instead:  Hold domestic supplies in reserve and use as much foreign oil while it is relatively cheap.  Tax consumption in order to get conservation efforts off the ground and use the tax revenue to support longer-term, large alternative energy projects where private investment is currently lacking because of risk.  When oil becomes expensive enough, a lot of alternatives - consevation methods and energy sources - become viable.  The trouble is that some of them are very capital intensive, are not "production hardened" and have long build-out lead times.  They require sustained high oil prices to attact private investment and development.  I think the proper roll of gov't is to smooth the way for these things to help reduce shocks to the economy and heartache for the citizens.

 

[Modelcar]

.....What ever might be an answer, we haven't started to work with it yet.  I'd like serious study on the subject, really serious....!  We won't solve the problem waddling along as we are now, and paying high buck every day for our daily routine of operation.

It's  time to get serious.

[Anonymous]

Just to be clear, if clarification is needed:  I am not advocating more taxes for the purpose of encouraging conservation.  If anything is capable of making a problem worse, it is any of the possible roles of government.  I am also not advocating so-called energy independence.  I believe that this concept appeals to those who do not understand supply and demand.  The implication is that is somebody like OPEC holds all the oil, then we have to dance to their tune and pay what they demand.  But OPEC needs us as much as we need them in this seller/buyer equation. 

 

Certainly, if we could produce our own oil cheaper than getting it from OPEC, we should.  Even if we produced oil at the same cost of OPEC oil, it would add to the overall supply, and drive OPEC's price down.  The world oil price is based on supply and expectations of supply.  If our congress, today, announced approval of drilling in ANWR for instance, the world price would drop today, before the first drill bites the ground.

 

In my opinion, the worst thing we could do is embrace alternate fuels at a higher cost, just for the sake of being energy independent.  This is the so-called "homegrown" appeal of ethanol.  Its advocates like to tout the fact that homegrown fuel means that our money stays in the U.S., as if that is analogous to the virtue of a thrifty person who can hold onto his money.  I predict that this ethanol craze will quickly become a monument to how to make a problem worse.  The only plus side is that it may take a monument to drive the point home.   

[Anonymous]

Anybody that is selling a supply of something is going to limit that supply if he can get a higher price and make more money overall, even though he is selling less quantity.  If OPEC decided to double the price of oil, they might end up making less money overall than they are now because the higher price would reduce demand.  From our perspective, it may seem like OPEC has a gun to our heads, but you have to look at it from their perspective.  Nothing could be worse for them than to have all that oil and nobody wanting to buy it.  There is no conspiracy, just the beauty of supply and demand.

Which it is our duty as a Nation to unify and produce domestic vehicles running on fuels we control. Not Middle east, opec or anyone. If that means getting rid of gasoline and Desiel. So be it.

Nothing will please me more than to see Iran, Saudi and all the rest sit in the sands on top of fuel that the USA wont need or use.

If enough of USA, Europe gets off the oil imports OPEC will survey the oil wells and see them sitting still and not pumping very much if at all. THEN the supply will be overflowing and the costs will drop to 10 dollars a barrel. That is the very thing OPEC does not want.

It's too bad because we have the Gulf, deep sea drilling, ANWAR etc.. but no one is sufficient backbone to stand up and actually make it happen.

I'm a bit confused.  Are you advocating energy independence on a permanent basis or temporary basis?

We import (net) about half of the oil we consume.  That's a big target. 

Even if we drilled holes all over America, we'd never come close to making up the 1/2 we're now importing.  ANWAR is a drop in the bucket.  And, the cost to find and develop new sources or petroleum in the US would be greater than that for the foreign, imported oil.

Conservation will only get you so far.  You can do all sorts of things to encourage conservation like high taxes on energy, higer CAFE stds. for cars, etc.  But these will really hammer the economy and only make a dent in consumption.

You could tax/subsidize alternate sources of energy.  You can do coal liqification, oil shale, ethanol, etc., but these sources are expensive to develop and get into production and require a long term commitment in order to be a profitable venture.  That probably means some sort of gov't price support if you want to get them going right now.

Now, suppose we do all that stuff and decide to live with $5 or $6/gallon cost equivalent for transportation fuels and 50% higher utility bills, plus much higher prices for food and goods (fertilizer and plasitcs) and the recession they will cause.   I think you're right, that world oil prices would tumble.  So, the rest of the world - China, India, etc. get $25/bbl oil while we're paying $100 for equivalent energy.  How do you think that would sit politically and economically?  I don't think you can gear up for energy independence as an "object lesson" for OPEC. It's a long term, high cost commitment.

Why not do this instead:  Hold domestic supplies in reserve and use as much foreign oil while it is relatively cheap.  Tax consumption in order to get conservation efforts off the ground and use the tax revenue to support longer-term, large alternative energy projects where private investment is currently lacking because of risk.  When oil becomes expensive enough, a lot of alternatives - consevation methods and energy sources - become viable.  The trouble is that some of them are very capital intensive, are not "production hardened" and have long build-out lead times.  They require sustained high oil prices to attact private investment and development.  I think the proper roll of gov't is to smooth the way for these things to help reduce shocks to the economy and heartache for the citizens.

 

Im not just talking freedom, Im talking a total National refusal to market and use Oil to move our people from point A to point B. We should have enough oil to make our own medicines, plastics etc until new forms can be researched in the labs just like they did with tires in world war two to stop depending on pure Rubber Trees that were under Japenese Control.

Yes, my idea which I advocate is a total stoppage of Gasoline as a motor fuel. We will have to build cars for everyone that runs on hybrid desiel or some other form like rechargeable electric. We will have to get serious about TGV type technology between Cities. We will have to use light rail, trolleys and monorails in our cities. We will have to build these into suburbs to about 30-40 miles radius. We will want a person to walk or bike to the station and get to work easily wherever that is WITHOUT need of a car.

If they need a car, they will have one with sufficent range to travel 150 miles or a bit more on one fill of electricity or something something...

Airports will have to continue to use JetFuel until they find something else.

We would need a total national commitment on all levels and a sum of money worthy of the old Railroad Tycoon that once dreamed of a rail connection sea to sea.

Imagine a United States and Europe that does not need mideast oil for a moment.

[oltmannd]

Anybody that is selling a supply of something is going to limit that supply if he can get a higher price and make more money overall, even though he is selling less quantity.  If OPEC decided to double the price of oil, they might end up making less money overall than they are now because the higher price would reduce demand.  From our perspective, it may seem like OPEC has a gun to our heads, but you have to look at it from their perspective.  Nothing could be worse for them than to have all that oil and nobody wanting to buy it.  There is no conspiracy, just the beauty of supply and demand.

Which it is our duty as a Nation to unify and produce domestic vehicles running on fuels we control. Not Middle east, opec or anyone. If that means getting rid of gasoline and Desiel. So be it.

Nothing will please me more than to see Iran, Saudi and all the rest sit in the sands on top of fuel that the USA wont need or use.

If enough of USA, Europe gets off the oil imports OPEC will survey the oil wells and see them sitting still and not pumping very much if at all. THEN the supply will be overflowing and the costs will drop to 10 dollars a barrel. That is the very thing OPEC does not want.

It's too bad because we have the Gulf, deep sea drilling, ANWAR etc.. but no one is sufficient backbone to stand up and actually make it happen.

I'm a bit confused.  Are you advocating energy independence on a permanent basis or temporary basis?

We import (net) about half of the oil we consume.  That's a big target. 

Even if we drilled holes all over America, we'd never come close to making up the 1/2 we're now importing.  ANWAR is a drop in the bucket.  And, the cost to find and develop new sources or petroleum in the US would be greater than that for the foreign, imported oil.

Conservation will only get you so far.  You can do all sorts of things to encourage conservation like high taxes on energy, higer CAFE stds. for cars, etc.  But these will really hammer the economy and only make a dent in consumption.

You could tax/subsidize alternate sources of energy.  You can do coal liqification, oil shale, ethanol, etc., but these sources are expensive to develop and get into production and require a long term commitment in order to be a profitable venture.  That probably means some sort of gov't price support if you want to get them going right now.

Now, suppose we do all that stuff and decide to live with $5 or $6/gallon cost equivalent for transportation fuels and 50% higher utility bills, plus much higher prices for food and goods (fertilizer and plasitcs) and the recession they will cause.   I think you're right, that world oil prices would tumble.  So, the rest of the world - China, India, etc. get $25/bbl oil while we're paying $100 for equivalent energy.  How do you think that would sit politically and economically?  I don't think you can gear up for energy independence as an "object lesson" for OPEC. It's a long term, high cost commitment.

Why not do this instead:  Hold domestic supplies in reserve and use as much foreign oil while it is relatively cheap.  Tax consumption in order to get conservation efforts off the ground and use the tax revenue to support longer-term, large alternative energy projects where private investment is currently lacking because of risk.  When oil becomes expensive enough, a lot of alternatives - consevation methods and energy sources - become viable.  The trouble is that some of them are very capital intensive, are not "production hardened" and have long build-out lead times.  They require sustained high oil prices to attact private investment and development.  I think the proper roll of gov't is to smooth the way for these things to help reduce shocks to the economy and heartache for the citizens.

 

Im not just talking freedom, Im talking a total National refusal to market and use Oil to move our people from point A to point B. We should have enough oil to make our own medicines, plastics etc until new forms can be researched in the labs just like they did with tires in world war two to stop depending on pure Rubber Trees that were under Japenese Control.

Yes, my idea which I advocate is a total stoppage of Gasoline as a motor fuel. We will have to build cars for everyone that runs on hybrid desiel or some other form like rechargeable electric. We will have to get serious about TGV type technology between Cities. We will have to use light rail, trolleys and monorails in our cities. We will have to build these into suburbs to about 30-40 miles radius. We will want a person to walk or bike to the station and get to work easily wherever that is WITHOUT need of a car.

If they need a car, they will have one with sufficent range to travel 150 miles or a bit more on one fill of electricity or something something...

Airports will have to continue to use JetFuel until they find something else.

We would need a total national commitment on all levels and a sum of money worthy of the old Railroad Tycoon that once dreamed of a rail connection sea to sea.

Imagine a United States and Europe that does not need mideast oil for a moment.

You can make gasoline and diesel and jet fuel out of coal or natural gas or oil shale.  It just costs more, maybe a lot more.  Recharging cars off the grid is extremely energy inefficient.  What you suggest will put the US at a considerable disadvantage with the rest of the world economically.

[Anonymous]

Anybody that is selling a supply of something is going to limit that supply if he can get a higher price and make more money overall, even though he is selling less quantity.  If OPEC decided to double the price of oil, they might end up making less money overall than they are now because the higher price would reduce demand.  From our perspective, it may seem like OPEC has a gun to our heads, but you have to look at it from their perspective.  Nothing could be worse for them than to have all that oil and nobody wanting to buy it.  There is no conspiracy, just the beauty of supply and demand.

Which it is our duty as a Nation to unify and produce domestic vehicles running on fuels we control. Not Middle east, opec or anyone. If that means getting rid of gasoline and Desiel. So be it.

Nothing will please me more than to see Iran, Saudi and all the rest sit in the sands on top of fuel that the USA wont need or use.

If enough of USA, Europe gets off the oil imports OPEC will survey the oil wells and see them sitting still and not pumping very much if at all. THEN the supply will be overflowing and the costs will drop to 10 dollars a barrel. That is the very thing OPEC does not want.

It's too bad because we have the Gulf, deep sea drilling, ANWAR etc.. but no one is sufficient backbone to stand up and actually make it happen.

I'm a bit confused.  Are you advocating energy independence on a permanent basis or temporary basis?

We import (net) about half of the oil we consume.  That's a big target. 

Even if we drilled holes all over America, we'd never come close to making up the 1/2 we're now importing.  ANWAR is a drop in the bucket.  And, the cost to find and develop new sources or petroleum in the US would be greater than that for the foreign, imported oil.

Conservation will only get you so far.  You can do all sorts of things to encourage conservation like high taxes on energy, higer CAFE stds. for cars, etc.  But these will really hammer the economy and only make a dent in consumption.

You could tax/subsidize alternate sources of energy.  You can do coal liqification, oil shale, ethanol, etc., but these sources are expensive to develop and get into production and require a long term commitment in order to be a profitable venture.  That probably means some sort of gov't price support if you want to get them going right now.

Now, suppose we do all that stuff and decide to live with $5 or $6/gallon cost equivalent for transportation fuels and 50% higher utility bills, plus much higher prices for food and goods (fertilizer and plasitcs) and the recession they will cause.   I think you're right, that world oil prices would tumble.  So, the rest of the world - China, India, etc. get $25/bbl oil while we're paying $100 for equivalent energy.  How do you think that would sit politically and economically?  I don't think you can gear up for energy independence as an "object lesson" for OPEC. It's a long term, high cost commitment.

Why not do this instead:  Hold domestic supplies in reserve and use as much foreign oil while it is relatively cheap.  Tax consumption in order to get conservation efforts off the ground and use the tax revenue to support longer-term, large alternative energy projects where private investment is currently lacking because of risk.  When oil becomes expensive enough, a lot of alternatives - consevation methods and energy sources - become viable.  The trouble is that some of them are very capital intensive, are not "production hardened" and have long build-out lead times.  They require sustained high oil prices to attact private investment and development.  I think the proper roll of gov't is to smooth the way for these things to help reduce shocks to the economy and heartache for the citizens.

 

Im not just talking freedom, Im talking a total National refusal to market and use Oil to move our people from point A to point B. We should have enough oil to make our own medicines, plastics etc until new forms can be researched in the labs just like they did with tires in world war two to stop depending on pure Rubber Trees that were under Japenese Control.

Yes, my idea which I advocate is a total stoppage of Gasoline as a motor fuel. We will have to build cars for everyone that runs on hybrid desiel or some other form like rechargeable electric. We will have to get serious about TGV type technology between Cities. We will have to use light rail, trolleys and monorails in our cities. We will have to build these into suburbs to about 30-40 miles radius. We will want a person to walk or bike to the station and get to work easily wherever that is WITHOUT need of a car.

If they need a car, they will have one with sufficent range to travel 150 miles or a bit more on one fill of electricity or something something...

Airports will have to continue to use JetFuel until they find something else.

We would need a total national commitment on all levels and a sum of money worthy of the old Railroad Tycoon that once dreamed of a rail connection sea to sea.

Imagine a United States and Europe that does not need mideast oil for a moment.

You can make gasoline and diesel and jet fuel out of coal or natural gas or oil shale.  It just costs more, maybe a lot more.  Recharging cars off the grid is extremely energy inefficient.  What you suggest will put the US at a considerable disadvantage with the rest of the world economically.

We are already at a disadvantage economically. All of our good employment has been sent overseas, our working poor crushed in wages so low they cannot live properly and our prices continue to increase while our towns become a sea of service McJobs like Gas and Conveince.

China and other Nations continue to flex thier muscles and demand more and more of the energy availible from the world They have already passed the point where the USA was post ww2 and getting much more greedy for the energy with each passing year.

What happens if that Model engine produced overseas for 20 dollars/hour Union wages and becomes 800-1000 dollars US retail dollars? Instead of the old .10/hour factory worker content to live on a bed of straw with a bit of wood to heat his or her hovel.

We are already at a disadvantage. And it will con

[Modelcar]

....Yep, there are lots of opinions of what we should be doing or try to do to improve our energy situation.

That's why I think it's vital our government and priviate industry and any other appropiate leaders need to structure  a vast quick time study and massive discussion, which way our country should concentrate our effort in how to solve or alleviate our energy situation

I mean a massive serious group and study...{not photo opps}, to really point us in a meaningful direction.  Not smoke and mirrors either....Real meaningful action.  Then if a consensus can be arrived at....get to work on solving the problem....!!

[zardoz]

Interesting in that in all of the talk of conservation that we hear, nowhere is it suggested or even implied that a quick, easy, and SAFE way to drastically cut oil consumption is to slow down. 

An average vehicle gets about 20% better mileage at 55mph than it does at 75mph: http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/consumer_tips/speeding_and_mpg.html

Driving with headlights on reduces mileage by 6%:
http://mb-soft.com/public/headlite.html

Formula for determining a car's most efficient speed: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question477.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Those numbers are 50 years out of date.

Let's talk 85 mph driving, use of very big vehicles to intimidate others out of the left lane and continued use of 40-60 year old roads and bridges that are obselete despite volumes of traffic that the orginal builders never fantasy about in thier wildest dreams.

Let's also talk about these same workers buying gasoline or desiel at a breakneck rate as if it was .01 cents a gallon using whatever they can to get the tank filled NOW, worrying about paying later if ever.

I dont look at efficient speed, I look at hourly consumption of fuel against gallons remaining and the terrain that needs to be crossed. I could probably drift down a mountain grade on hardly any fuel. But easily burn 20 gallons each hour upgrade.

[tatans]

Finally the price of gas is dropping as was expected, and Algeria announced today 4 major oil finds in that country..... say, how many cars do you own??? do you really have more than one???

[Anonymous]

Who me? I owned 5 total last year. Two suffered motor casulties in excess of 200,000 miles and were sold off to the junkyard. One was sold off to a family that had no car for a dollar, they since rebuilt it and it continues to serve them well and the two I have left, one is a new model and the other has an excess of 230,000 on it and showing signs of fatal transmission problems that will probably result in it being sold to the junkyard. We plan on replacing that one with a Hybrid.

The best car I owned had a 1.5 4 cylinder, 5 speed and gave me 45 miles to the gallon in the summer and 38 in the winter. That car had a 12 gallon tank, good for 400 miles on 15 dollars gas (1.10 at the time) and could and did run with the BMW's on the beltway commute.

In fact, when you got to within 9 miles of actually running the gas tank dry it would hesitate at left hand turns as the fuel spilled to teh opposite side of the tank away from the feed line and pump.

The Hybrid that replaces the one going to the junkyard when it fails is going to be expected to get at least 45 miles to gallon if not over 50. All of my cars survive because they go to the shop every 3000 miles without exception. Many trucks I ran ranged from 100 miles to 1.7 million on the odometer on the orginal engine build and netted me anywhere from 4.5 to 8.7 mpg in certain areas on the interstate. I was usually in a new truck every year when we hit 110-250 thousand on teh old one and it starts to accumulate shop time for little stuff costing us on-time delivery.

When you are up in the Bitterroot or crossing the Cabbage in bad winter, that is not the time to be tolerant of equiptment problems or less than 100% design performance.

[bnsfkline]

I just replaced the Escort ('94) with a new car, a 2007 Chevy Aveo LS 5 door Hatch. 40 MPG Highway!

[Modelcar]

......Have one automobile and one pickup truck.  Truck is 4.3L and the car is 3.0L....Personally, considering all the gasoline and it's pricing now, I believe a good happy medium engine size is right around 3.0L...Preference:  60 degree V-6 for power, smoothness and fuel economy.  Little truck has torque to burn and it's driven locally only and is kinda my toy.

[AntonioFP45]

I'm glad that my vehicles are Toyotas with 4 bangers. 

I'm amazed at how my "middle income" co-workers with huge SUVs pay $100+ to fill up their tanks 2 to 3 times a month. Yipes!  That's a nasty chunk of a paycheck. 

[zugmann]

I'll keep my headlights on, thank you very much.  Being seen is much more important than any 6%.  Nothing worse than morons driving at dusk, in the rain/fog, or in the shadows without headlights.  I wish I caould go 55mph... but on the interstates around here, you'd be risking getting your back end shortened real quick!

 

An average vehicle gets about 20% better mileage at 55mph than it does at 75mph: http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/consumer_tips/speeding_and_mpg.html

Driving with headlights on reduces mileage by 6%:
http://mb-soft.com/public/headlite.html

 

[Anonymous]

Well it sounds like the U.S. Senate is on the way to solving the problem by imposing energy taxes on Big Oil.  By endless implication, the media has told Americans that they are being gouged by Big Oil.  Americans took the bait and demanded that the government get even with Big Oil.  Congress then seized the opportunity to add a new tax to punish Big Oil.  Americans now feel satisfied that they have spanked Big Oil.  Wait until they find out that they missed Big Oil and spanked themselves. 

[vsmith]

I'm glad that my vehicles are Toyotas with 4 bangers. 

I'm amazed at how my "middle income" co-workers with huge SUVs pay $100+ to fill up their tanks 2 to 3 times a month. Yipes!  That's a nasty chunk of a paycheck. 

Hahaha! I know knuckleheads who have those same huge SUVs and are paying to fill it 2 or 3 times a WEEK!  These are the same guys who used to go out to nice lunchs, but are now brownbagging PBJs. Sapheads!

PS: Scion xB, 35mpg.