sarahd wrote:WELL CHAD I WAS UP THERE TODAY AND SIDING YOU ARE REFERRING TO ENDS BEFORE LUGO;LUGO IS THE NEXT DOUBLE CROSSOVER EAST OF THE END OF TRIPLE TRACK. IF YOU CHECK THE TIMETABLE YOU WILL SEE THAT LUGO IS STILL TWO MORE MILES AWAY. I WILL BE POSTING MORE PICTURES IN A BIT. JOHN
My bad, I knew it went past the old Martinez spur but I rarely go past that spot on the side that track is on and you cant see it from the road. ( security)
.....Chad, that would be fine....But doubt I'll be traveling that direction anymore. Did get into the Needles area many years ago when we were doing automotive test work out of Kingman, Az....We were running transmission tests on old 66 up through Oatman, Goldroad, etc....and down around Topock at the Colorado river.
I sure injoyed being around that area and being able to watch a bunch of Sante Fe operations through that area. That was right before Amtrak too, so I got to witness the "Chief" series of passenger trains too.....Really enjoyed being in the area. Was there 2 weeks and then back at the plant here in Indiana for 2 weeks and then the schedule would repeat.
Even got to run some on Ford Motor Co's 5 mile track down at Yucca Flats.....and so on....But never was in Cajon area.
Quentin
Modelcar wrote: ....It should really be great to see the actual construction photos, once it all starts....Looking forward to it. Have never been on the ground at Cajon.
....It should really be great to see the actual construction photos, once it all starts....Looking forward to it. Have never been on the ground at Cajon.
Well Quenten, if you ever get out this way be sure and look me up.
sarahd wrote:I TOOK THIS PICTURE YESTERDAY SO YOU OUT OF AREA TRAIN PEOPLE CAN SEE THEM,ALSO WHEN HELPERS ARE AT REAR OF TRAIN THEY USUALLY STAY ON TRAIN ALL THE WAY TO SAN BERNADINO. I HAVE MORE PICTURES OF THE AREA WILL TRY TO POST TOMORROW. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE THREE TRACKS UP AT SUMMIT WHICH STARTS AT THE OLD MARTINEZ SPUR AND HEADS WEST TO JUST BEFORE SUMMIT. THE END IS WHERE THE OLD SET OUT TRACK WAS IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA. I ONLY LIVE TEN MINUTES AWAY SO I CAN GO UP THERE ALMOST ANY TIME. ENJOY FOR NOW,JOHN
Welcome to the forum John. One slight correction, the sideing goes a bit further then Martinez down to Lugo.
Warren Smith wrote: Chad:Yes, the mainlines will be renumbered. So from uphill - UP, BNSF #1, 2 & 3 ...I am thinking Hill 582 lies between the existing #1 and 2 which, at that point, are widely separated. The landscaping up there looks gazebo-like from a distance.Yep, the new mainline from Summit to just beyond the I-15 OC will be "uphill" of the existing. There will be a crossover so that the new rails will cross Cajon Creek and Sullivan's Curve "downhill", then another crossover where the existing lines come together alongside Cajon Blvd. (Old Route 66). From that point through Blue Cut down to Keenbrook, the new grading will be on the "uphill" side, with retaining walls to protect Swarthout Canyon Road and some of the more extreme slopes.As a practical matter, once the rails are in place, they become three main lines ...I can't post the construction drawings, as they are BNSF property, but I hope the narratives (with progress photos) will help the railfans ...
Chad:
Yes, the mainlines will be renumbered. So from uphill - UP, BNSF #1, 2 & 3 ...
I am thinking Hill 582 lies between the existing #1 and 2 which, at that point, are widely separated. The landscaping up there looks gazebo-like from a distance.
Yep, the new mainline from Summit to just beyond the I-15 OC will be "uphill" of the existing. There will be a crossover so that the new rails will cross Cajon Creek and Sullivan's Curve "downhill", then another crossover where the existing lines come together alongside Cajon Blvd. (Old Route 66). From that point through Blue Cut down to Keenbrook, the new grading will be on the "uphill" side, with retaining walls to protect Swarthout Canyon Road and some of the more extreme slopes.
As a practical matter, once the rails are in place, they become three main lines ...
I can't post the construction drawings, as they are BNSF property, but I hope the narratives (with progress photos) will help the railfans ...
Thanks for all the great info Warren.
If you look into my web site listed in my signature you would see that material was not there last Sept & Nov when I was there
sarahd wrote: HERES A PICTURE OF SIGNAL BRIDGES AT SUMMIT
HERES A PICTURE OF SIGNAL BRIDGES AT SUMMIT
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
John:
Absolutely right - I have to look at the plans now and then
The UP connector is a mile down the track, down where the existing mainline 2 hooks up with ml 1 just shy of MP 57.
The project does start here - the new mainline will connect with the existing siding.
Hill 584 is outside the BNSF right of way. The R/W is 200' wide, centered on the existing ml 1. That would put the hill in the San Bernardino National Forest ...
THIS PICTURE IS AT SUMMIT WHERE THE CROSSOVERS ARE LOCATED,THIS IS NOT BY THE UP TRACK. THIS IS THE TOP OF CAJON LOOKING EAST. UP TRACK IS ABOVE ON SLOPE DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM WHERE I TOOK PICTURE. YOU WILL SEE WHEN I POST THE OTHER PICTURES. I AM STANDING ON DIRT SHOULDER OF HIGHWAY 138 WHICH IS ABOVE MAINLINE. TWO TRACKS ARE IN A CUT AT THIS POINT. IF YOU ENLARGE THE PICTURE YOU WILL SEE THAT THE CONTROL SIGNAL SIGN READS "EAST BOUND CONTROL SIGNAL SUMMIT". LITTLE SIGN IN FRONT OF SIGNAL. JUST CLICK ON PICTURE.
JOHN
Oops! Sorry, John
It has been overcast lately, so the contrast is pretty poor (I still can't make out our stakes).
Sarah:
Your photo looks like it was taken before we placed slope stakes for the new grading. The crossover visible at the bottom of the picture is the beginning of an existing connector to the UP rails. That will be moved a bit and protected with a retaining wall ...
So, from this point beyond the Alray tunnels, the new rails will be offset 15' (center to center) toward the UP track - not much disruption (till you get to the tunnels).
Carl, I don't see any changes happening on the hill side of the tracks.
Warren, I was just thinking about what you said. If I understand it the order from uphill down will be:
UP
#3
#1
#2
Is that right? and will it stay that way or will the tracks be redesignated?
So I did have the wrong track. Thanks, Chad! No problems with access either, then.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
...........or looking downhill (west) it will be on the right of the middle track (pictured).
Here is 582's namesake signal.
Brian, Carl, I believe the new #3 will be on the north side of the #1 track (I'm sure Warren knows). So if you are looking up the hill it will be left of the BNSF track on the left, the other side of the track from 582. So 582 should be unaltered.
Warren, Hill 582 is named for the signal at MP 58.2 on the #1 track. You can't miss it as it's the only hill with trees & greenery. I was up there last weekend and when I get a chance I'll post some pix.
Brian, I seem to remember Chad saying it would be to the right of Hill 582 as you're looking upgrade. The hill itself isn't in danger (though I can't vouch for the access roads). I'm sure Chad will correct me if I got the wrong side.
Warren, Milepost 58.2, on the BNSF track closest to the Palmdale Cutoff (I was lousy with directions around there!). At the signal (number plate 582), look toward the other track. Your view of the other track should be blocked by a hill, on top of which you'll see plants, stones, and a bench.
Here's another shot of a double-stack on both sides of I-15. You can see a tractor-trailer on the interstate ...
This is a UP consist on BNSF's existing main line #2, which is at a 3% grade at this point. Obviously, the downhill traffic route. The uphill helpers disengage at Summit and head down this way to start over again in San Bernardino ...
I'm actually not familiar with the designation Hill 582. If you know a MP, I can tell you in more detail.
The new main line #3 will parallel existing main line #1, which is the max. 2.2% uphill track. From Keenbrook through Blue Cut up to Sullivan's Curve, where main line #2 continues, there will be three parallel tracks. The new main line #3 will be 15' offset from the existing alignment, with some modification through the I-15 and Hwy. 138 overcrossings. Bridges will be offset 25'. Some additional access roads will be graded, so the existing cut/fill slopes may move over 30' or so.
Retaining walls are called for where slope integrity would encroach on the UP right of way, or drainage concerns dictate a smaller footprint.
The most dramatic change, of course, is at the Alray tunnels. The existing "buffer" slopes between BNSF and UP will disappear. And connector track will be installed between the two lines at Keenbrook and at Summit.
Hope this helps ...
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
Thanks Warren, Please continue to keep us posted.
The first order of business is to grade and build a 4000' shoofly around the existing tunnels. Then a 1/2:1 cut slope will take out the tunnels and the two mainlines will go in side by side, 15' apart.
Concurrently will be bridge and culvert widening throughout the job, building retaining walls where the UP track is close and building sub-ballast grade for crossovers.
The hardware that the original poster referred to, as well as grade crossing decks will be installed by BNSF crews when the access roads are ready.
The fun activity will be when the ballast cars show up, drop their loads, and the rail segments are placed. A highly choreographed sequence ...
Warren Smith wrote: I forget how small these images end up - maybe you can make out the numbers on this shot ...
I forget how small these images end up - maybe you can make out the numbers on this shot ...
Hi Warren, You can get a bigger version of the photos if you click on them. Do you know what the game plan is for daylighting the Alray tunnels?
Terrific shot. For sure the Cajon pass is a super place to train fan & take pics from
...Beautiful shots Warren....No problem reading those numbers. Still hanging around to enjoy the photos you mentioned of posting of up coming construction.
UP sure does have a nice brightly painted consist of engines....Often, on display.
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