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Once In a Lifetime Opportunity in Cajon Pass -- SEE IT NOW!

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, August 1, 2007 9:33 PM

....Enjoyed your photo Warren....Thanks for sharing.

With all the changes made over the years of the routes through that area, it looks like they will soon have those mountains cut down to size....

Quentin

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Posted by chad thomas on Wednesday, August 1, 2007 5:42 PM
I went through the pass monday eve and noticed a lot of equiptment, containers, ect. at Cajon. Didn't get any pix though.
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End of an era (for the tunnels)
Posted by Warren Smith on Wednesday, August 1, 2007 5:36 PM

The Contractor is beginning grading around the tunnels at Alray. The tubes will be left in place until the shoofly is built ...

Here's a shot by Richard:

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, July 8, 2007 9:22 AM

....Great photos Warren....Really interesting and informative.  Thanks for sharing.

Quentin

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Posted by Warren Smith on Sunday, July 8, 2007 3:24 AM

K.P. - here's a closeup of the signal bridges:

Some construction down at Silverwood (and some equipment):

Slope stakes for the shoofly grading at the tunnels:

Storage yard at Alray:

And extending a culvert at Keenbrook (also a wildlife passageway judging by the tracks in the dirt):

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Posted by sarahd on Sunday, July 1, 2007 11:19 AM
FOR YOUR INTERESTS-MORE CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT HAS ARRIVIED AT SUMMIT,MORE TRACTORS PLUS A CRANE THAT WAS NEAR THE TUNNELS. LOOKS LIKE IT WAS FIXING PANELS FOR THE RETAINING WALLS. THE CRANE IS VISIBLE FROM HWY 138 GOING UP TO SUMMIT. WILL HAVE TO WAIT TILL LATER AS IT WAS VERY HOT OUT THERE YESTERDAY, 103. WILL TRY TO GET MORE PICTURES.  HAPPY 4TH TO ALL OF YOU!!!!!    JOHN
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Posted by Warren Smith on Sunday, June 24, 2007 1:18 PM
 garyla wrote:

At Cajon, the new third track will obviously be built along the gentler grades of the existing north (eastbound) line, but at some locations (including the final approach to Summit) it would seem to be much easier to add the additonal trackage on the south side.

I'm sure that the designers are way ahead of us on this, and it would be fun to see how they have worked it out.

Gary:

You're right, the new third main line will parallel the existing eastbound track. There are three sections to the project. Starting at Summit (MP 55.9), the new track will tie into the existing siding on the north side and continue past Alray under I-15. There will be a new siding installed before Cajon Creek, and the new track will be built mostly on fill slope on the 'southerly' side through Sullivan's Curve down to the junction with the westbound track next to Cajon Blvd. (Old Route 66). Another siding complex with crossovers, then the new tracks will be 'northerly' again through Blue Cut down to Keenbrook (MP 69.4).

Grading the subballast roadbed is the easy part. There are new bridge abutments and piers, drainage culverts to extend, retaining walls, a shoofly around the existing tunnels, and then the tunnel removals. The signal hardware and switch installation will have to be coordinated with ongoing traffic. Then there is the Forest Service and the local Indian tribe. Construction management on the Transcon. Fun stuff ...

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Posted by garyla on Sunday, June 24, 2007 11:21 AM

Seeing this project unfold is indeed a rare opportunity. 

Has anyone seen a track schematic of these changes, or of those on BNSF's planned Abo Canyon, NM, double-tracking work? 

In the latter case, I understand that different parts of the existing single track will be used for the future north and south lines.

At Cajon, the new third track will obviously be built along the gentler grades of the existing north (eastbound) line, but at some locations (including the final approach to Summit) it would seem to be much easier to add the additonal trackage on the south side.

I'm sure that the designers are way ahead of us on this, and it would be fun to see how they have worked it out.

If I ever met a train I didn't like, I can't remember when it happened!
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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:48 PM

....Yes, that makes sense.  Gold mines up in the Oatman area too but I don't know which came first.  The mines or rt. 66.

Quentin

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Posted by Warren Smith on Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:40 PM
 Modelcar wrote:

....Good stuff Warren.  Interesting.  You're mention of rt. 66 reminds me of a location near Kingman, Az...Heading southwest after one got down "perfume pass"...rt. 66 viered off a bit to the right and down thru the desert and then climbed up over the pass....{can't remember the name....was it Sitgreaves...}, anyway, then on down around Goldroad and Oatman and some really ruff hill side grades and finally down by Topock.  At the same time, the Sante Fe managed to run down Yucca Flats area with relative flat running {not quite}, but on down to Topock....Wonder why the fellows took 66 up and over the steep pass to reach the same place...?

Yeah - one of the few departures from the old ATSF route. My guess is that the autos back then had to stage themselves across the desert. As you recall, there's not much water at Yucca, and the Model Ts couldn't carry as much as the steam engines. There were springs around Oatman, and a mining community. It would have made a decently spaced rest stop before heading down to the Colorado River.

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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:17 PM

....Good stuff Warren.  Interesting.  You're mention of rt. 66 reminds me of a location near Kingman, Az...Heading southwest after one got down "perfume pass"...rt. 66 viered off a bit to the right and down thru the desert and then climbed up over the pass....{can't remember the name....was it Sitgreaves...}, anyway, then on down around Goldroad and Oatman and some really ruff hill side grades and finally down by Topock.  At the same time, the Sante Fe managed to run down Yucca Flats area with relative flat running {not quite}, but on down to Topock....Wonder why the fellows took 66 up and over the steep pass to reach the same place...?

Quentin

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Posted by Warren Smith on Saturday, June 23, 2007 3:50 PM
 Modelcar wrote:

What was the ruling grade the original engineers / surveyors put up across there.

Quentin:

I would say it is the same as now. The design constraints are equivalent. It's just that (like everything else) it took more personnel to accomplish the same tasks. The tunnels at Alray were built in 1913. The grading involved to build the cut slopes is a relatively easy operation today, but it must have been more cost-effective to tunnel back then. Plus, they didn't need double-stack clearance either Big Smile [:D]

The grade past Hill 582 is 2.18%. Where the two existing mainlines run together along Cajon Boulevard - just before the split at Sullivan's Curve - is at a 2.15% grade. And that is what all the curves, cuts, fills, culverts, bridges and tunnels are about. The same holds for highway design - just a taller controlling grade for the Interstates. That is why Route 66 followed the Chicago to Los Angeles alignment. The Model Ts had about the same "pulling" capacity as the steam locos ...

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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:46 PM

...Thanks Warren for the update.  Looking forward to your reports.

What was the ruling grade the original engineers / surveyors put up across there.

Quentin

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Posted by Warren Smith on Saturday, June 23, 2007 11:39 AM

Guys - a construction (or lack thereof) update ...

The permits to be issued by the Forest Service - relating to grading and drainage issues - are still pending.  And the Morongo Indian tribe is setting up an archaeologist to ensure that no ancient sites are disturbed.

These were addressed during the EIR process, but no digging can proceed without mitigation measures in place.

Meanwhile, of course, BNSF is stockpiling hardware, the construction equipment is mobilizing at several locations, and we have been busy staking limits and retaining wall layout.

I can't help but think back to the original route engineers. Even with less sophisticated equipment, they pretty much kept to an expedited schedule ...

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Posted by spbed on Saturday, June 23, 2007 8:04 AM

Cannot wait will be back there around mid July! Smile [:)]

 

 

 

 sarahd wrote:

QUENTIN,IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE TAKEN AT LUGO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TRACK IN BOTH DIRECTIONS DIPS A BIT;ITS ABOUT TWO MILES TO SUMMIT HEADING WEST;GOING EAST ITS ABOUT ONE MILE BEFORE THE TRACK HEADS DOWN HILL AGAIN HEADING TO VICTORVILLE.THERE ARE MANY TRAINS GOING THRU HERE ALL THE TIME. I WAS UP AT SUMMIT FOR ABOUT AN HOUR,THERE WERE SIX TRAINS HEADING WEST AND ONE EAST. IN ONE OF THE PICTURES YOU WILL SEE A TRAIN STOPPED ON THE TRACK ON THE RIGHT SIDE,BEHIND HIM WERE THREE OTHER TRAINS WAITING TO GO DOWN. AT SUMMIT IS WHERE THERE IS A THIRD TRACK THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE CONTROL POINT CP MARTINEZ WHICH IS ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF. ITS NICE TO LIVE SO CLOSE CAN BE UP THERE AT ALMOST ANYTIME.

                                                                               JOHN

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

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Posted by sarahd on Friday, June 22, 2007 9:48 PM

QUENTIN,IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE TAKEN AT LUGO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TRACK IN BOTH DIRECTIONS DIPS A BIT;ITS ABOUT TWO MILES TO SUMMIT HEADING WEST;GOING EAST ITS ABOUT ONE MILE BEFORE THE TRACK HEADS DOWN HILL AGAIN HEADING TO VICTORVILLE.THERE ARE MANY TRAINS GOING THRU HERE ALL THE TIME. I WAS UP AT SUMMIT FOR ABOUT AN HOUR,THERE WERE SIX TRAINS HEADING WEST AND ONE EAST. IN ONE OF THE PICTURES YOU WILL SEE A TRAIN STOPPED ON THE TRACK ON THE RIGHT SIDE,BEHIND HIM WERE THREE OTHER TRAINS WAITING TO GO DOWN. AT SUMMIT IS WHERE THERE IS A THIRD TRACK THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE CONTROL POINT CP MARTINEZ WHICH IS ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF. ITS NICE TO LIVE SO CLOSE CAN BE UP THERE AT ALMOST ANYTIME.

                                                                               JOHN

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Posted by Modelcar on Friday, June 22, 2007 8:56 PM

.....Great views.  Gives me good views of Cajon.  Beautiful track structure.  I can see it has not been easy to put a good route thru there. 

From what I understand it has been under almost constant improvement over the years.

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Friday, June 22, 2007 8:41 PM

.....Yes, that works...!  Thank You.

Quentin

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Posted by sarahd on Friday, June 22, 2007 8:39 PM

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z174/99sarahd/

try this link to pictures to enlarge

 SORRY BUT IF YOU GO TO THE LINK YOU CAN ENLARGE PICTURES,WAS HAVING TROUBLE DOWNLOADING.  JOHN

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Posted by Modelcar on Friday, June 22, 2007 8:29 PM

....Great pictures, but I can't enlarge them....Is it just me...?  They go to the enlarge status but are about the same size as originals.

Quentin

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Posted by sarahd on Friday, June 22, 2007 7:02 PM


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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 4:33 PM

.....Warren, anyplace that has less numbers of Rattlesnakes, has to be better...ha.

Interesting info you provided.  I did not realize Cajon was over the San Andreas Fault.  I suppose that is something to ponder.

Thanks for the info.

PS:  Down in the Yucca flats where we {my co.} had us running automotive tests many years ago, there was no shortage of Sidewinders, and others.

Quentin

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Posted by Warren Smith on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 2:43 PM
 Modelcar wrote:

...I'm a little surprised at the stated elevation at Cajon....It {the location}, gets lots of attention and interest and compared to the BNSF elevation over at Flagstaff, Az....which is almost twice as high at that crossing.  Around 7,000 ft.

Quentin:

I don't think it is the absolute elevation that commands attention, as much as the surrounding topography. Cajon Pass crosses the San Andreas Fault, where the Pacific Plate meets the North American Plate (at Blue Cut).  The surrounding hills created quite a challenge for the original route engineers.

Route 66 follows the alignment through both locations for obvious reasons. It may be access that gives Cajon the nod to the Ash Fork-Williams grade near Flagstaff. Also the Southern California population which outnumbers Coconino County by a bit Wink [;)].

Where BNSF crosses the Arizona Divide near Bellemont is an interesting juxtaposition with I-40  alongside. An intermodal consist with OTR truckers chugging along is quite the image ...

FWIW the scenery around Flagstaff is more invigorating - the Ponderosa pines and much fewer rattlesnakes.

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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:59 AM

...I'm a little surprised at the stated elevation at Cajon....It {the location}, gets lots of attention and interest and compared to the BNSF elevation over at Flagstaff, Az....which is almost twice as high at that crossing.  Around 7,000 ft.

Quentin

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Posted by chad thomas on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:43 AM

I'll second that.

I was up there this weekend. I intended to shoot as many shots of the #1 track as possible. But stupid me , I forgot to upload my pictures before I left and only had a couple dozen left to shoot. Oh well, it's an excuse to go back soon. It was a great weekend, not too hot and noot too windy / cold. Met some railfans from Belgium (sp) and a couple from New Zeland. I do have some pics to post when I get a chance.....stay tunned....................

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Posted by Modelcar on Monday, June 18, 2007 8:43 PM

....Will look forward to your pictures, John.

Quentin

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Posted by sarahd on Monday, June 18, 2007 7:01 PM

   UP AT CAJON ON NORTH SIDE OF TRACKS NEW SWITCHES FOR THE CROSSOVER AT SUMMIT FOR THE THIRD TRACK ARE ON THE GROUND,ALSO FRONT LOADER AND GRADER ARE THERE. THESE WERE PUT UP THERE ON FRIDAY 6-15-07. DOWN IN VICTORVILLE THE LOCAL FROM BARSTOW HAS BEEN BRINGING IN SUPPLYS FOR THE TRACK PROJECT,HAVE SEEN PRE-FABRICATED SWITCHES IN GONDOLAS,SIX SO FAR. THERE ARE FOUR OLD HI SIDE GONDOLAS LOADED WITH WOODEN CROSSTIES BEING UNLOADEDIN VICTORVILLE. I WAS GOING TO POST SOME PICTURES,BUT I HAD TO GO OUT OF TOWN,WILL GO UP TO SUMMIT TOM0RROW SO I CAN TAKE SOME UPDATED PICTURES WILL TRY TO POST TOMORROW. (6-19-07)

                                                                                 JOHN

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Posted by Modelcar on Friday, June 8, 2007 10:21 AM

....Pictures at 11....?

Quentin

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Posted by Warren Smith on Friday, June 8, 2007 9:19 AM

Here's some survey trivia regarding Cajon Summit (for the BNSF lines) ...

The high point occurs at MP 56.15

The top of rail elevation is 3779.72

The westbound grade into the vertical curve is +0.12 %

The grade out of the VC is -0.58 %

It happens at a point of spiral-to-curve transition

This location is 125' north of Hwy. 138, which is 75 feet higher, due to a 1:1 cut

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