....Enjoyed your photo Warren....Thanks for sharing.
With all the changes made over the years of the routes through that area, it looks like they will soon have those mountains cut down to size....
Quentin
The Contractor is beginning grading around the tunnels at Alray. The tubes will be left in place until the shoofly is built ...
Here's a shot by Richard:
....Great photos Warren....Really interesting and informative. Thanks for sharing.
K.P. - here's a closeup of the signal bridges:
Some construction down at Silverwood (and some equipment):
Slope stakes for the shoofly grading at the tunnels:
Storage yard at Alray:
And extending a culvert at Keenbrook (also a wildlife passageway judging by the tracks in the dirt):
garyla wrote: At Cajon, the new third track will obviously be built along the gentler grades of the existing north (eastbound) line, but at some locations (including the final approach to Summit) it would seem to be much easier to add the additonal trackage on the south side.I'm sure that the designers are way ahead of us on this, and it would be fun to see how they have worked it out.
At Cajon, the new third track will obviously be built along the gentler grades of the existing north (eastbound) line, but at some locations (including the final approach to Summit) it would seem to be much easier to add the additonal trackage on the south side.
I'm sure that the designers are way ahead of us on this, and it would be fun to see how they have worked it out.
Gary:
You're right, the new third main line will parallel the existing eastbound track. There are three sections to the project. Starting at Summit (MP 55.9), the new track will tie into the existing siding on the north side and continue past Alray under I-15. There will be a new siding installed before Cajon Creek, and the new track will be built mostly on fill slope on the 'southerly' side through Sullivan's Curve down to the junction with the westbound track next to Cajon Blvd. (Old Route 66). Another siding complex with crossovers, then the new tracks will be 'northerly' again through Blue Cut down to Keenbrook (MP 69.4).
Grading the subballast roadbed is the easy part. There are new bridge abutments and piers, drainage culverts to extend, retaining walls, a shoofly around the existing tunnels, and then the tunnel removals. The signal hardware and switch installation will have to be coordinated with ongoing traffic. Then there is the Forest Service and the local Indian tribe. Construction management on the Transcon. Fun stuff ...
Seeing this project unfold is indeed a rare opportunity.
Has anyone seen a track schematic of these changes, or of those on BNSF's planned Abo Canyon, NM, double-tracking work?
In the latter case, I understand that different parts of the existing single track will be used for the future north and south lines.
....Yes, that makes sense. Gold mines up in the Oatman area too but I don't know which came first. The mines or rt. 66.
Modelcar wrote: ....Good stuff Warren. Interesting. You're mention of rt. 66 reminds me of a location near Kingman, Az...Heading southwest after one got down "perfume pass"...rt. 66 viered off a bit to the right and down thru the desert and then climbed up over the pass....{can't remember the name....was it Sitgreaves...}, anyway, then on down around Goldroad and Oatman and some really ruff hill side grades and finally down by Topock. At the same time, the Sante Fe managed to run down Yucca Flats area with relative flat running {not quite}, but on down to Topock....Wonder why the fellows took 66 up and over the steep pass to reach the same place...?
....Good stuff Warren. Interesting. You're mention of rt. 66 reminds me of a location near Kingman, Az...Heading southwest after one got down "perfume pass"...rt. 66 viered off a bit to the right and down thru the desert and then climbed up over the pass....{can't remember the name....was it Sitgreaves...}, anyway, then on down around Goldroad and Oatman and some really ruff hill side grades and finally down by Topock. At the same time, the Sante Fe managed to run down Yucca Flats area with relative flat running {not quite}, but on down to Topock....Wonder why the fellows took 66 up and over the steep pass to reach the same place...?
Yeah - one of the few departures from the old ATSF route. My guess is that the autos back then had to stage themselves across the desert. As you recall, there's not much water at Yucca, and the Model Ts couldn't carry as much as the steam engines. There were springs around Oatman, and a mining community. It would have made a decently spaced rest stop before heading down to the Colorado River.
Modelcar wrote: What was the ruling grade the original engineers / surveyors put up across there.
What was the ruling grade the original engineers / surveyors put up across there.
Quentin:
I would say it is the same as now. The design constraints are equivalent. It's just that (like everything else) it took more personnel to accomplish the same tasks. The tunnels at Alray were built in 1913. The grading involved to build the cut slopes is a relatively easy operation today, but it must have been more cost-effective to tunnel back then. Plus, they didn't need double-stack clearance either
The grade past Hill 582 is 2.18%. Where the two existing mainlines run together along Cajon Boulevard - just before the split at Sullivan's Curve - is at a 2.15% grade. And that is what all the curves, cuts, fills, culverts, bridges and tunnels are about. The same holds for highway design - just a taller controlling grade for the Interstates. That is why Route 66 followed the Chicago to Los Angeles alignment. The Model Ts had about the same "pulling" capacity as the steam locos ...
...Thanks Warren for the update. Looking forward to your reports.
Guys - a construction (or lack thereof) update ...
The permits to be issued by the Forest Service - relating to grading and drainage issues - are still pending. And the Morongo Indian tribe is setting up an archaeologist to ensure that no ancient sites are disturbed.
These were addressed during the EIR process, but no digging can proceed without mitigation measures in place.
Meanwhile, of course, BNSF is stockpiling hardware, the construction equipment is mobilizing at several locations, and we have been busy staking limits and retaining wall layout.
I can't help but think back to the original route engineers. Even with less sophisticated equipment, they pretty much kept to an expedited schedule ...
Cannot wait will be back there around mid July!
sarahd wrote: QUENTIN,IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE TAKEN AT LUGO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TRACK IN BOTH DIRECTIONS DIPS A BIT;ITS ABOUT TWO MILES TO SUMMIT HEADING WEST;GOING EAST ITS ABOUT ONE MILE BEFORE THE TRACK HEADS DOWN HILL AGAIN HEADING TO VICTORVILLE.THERE ARE MANY TRAINS GOING THRU HERE ALL THE TIME. I WAS UP AT SUMMIT FOR ABOUT AN HOUR,THERE WERE SIX TRAINS HEADING WEST AND ONE EAST. IN ONE OF THE PICTURES YOU WILL SEE A TRAIN STOPPED ON THE TRACK ON THE RIGHT SIDE,BEHIND HIM WERE THREE OTHER TRAINS WAITING TO GO DOWN. AT SUMMIT IS WHERE THERE IS A THIRD TRACK THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE CONTROL POINT CP MARTINEZ WHICH IS ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF. ITS NICE TO LIVE SO CLOSE CAN BE UP THERE AT ALMOST ANYTIME. JOHN
QUENTIN,IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE TAKEN AT LUGO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TRACK IN BOTH DIRECTIONS DIPS A BIT;ITS ABOUT TWO MILES TO SUMMIT HEADING WEST;GOING EAST ITS ABOUT ONE MILE BEFORE THE TRACK HEADS DOWN HILL AGAIN HEADING TO VICTORVILLE.THERE ARE MANY TRAINS GOING THRU HERE ALL THE TIME. I WAS UP AT SUMMIT FOR ABOUT AN HOUR,THERE WERE SIX TRAINS HEADING WEST AND ONE EAST. IN ONE OF THE PICTURES YOU WILL SEE A TRAIN STOPPED ON THE TRACK ON THE RIGHT SIDE,BEHIND HIM WERE THREE OTHER TRAINS WAITING TO GO DOWN. AT SUMMIT IS WHERE THERE IS A THIRD TRACK THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE CONTROL POINT CP MARTINEZ WHICH IS ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF. ITS NICE TO LIVE SO CLOSE CAN BE UP THERE AT ALMOST ANYTIME.
JOHN
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
.....Great views. Gives me good views of Cajon. Beautiful track structure. I can see it has not been easy to put a good route thru there.
From what I understand it has been under almost constant improvement over the years.
.....Yes, that works...! Thank You.
http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z174/99sarahd/
try this link to pictures to enlarge
SORRY BUT IF YOU GO TO THE LINK YOU CAN ENLARGE PICTURES,WAS HAVING TROUBLE DOWNLOADING. JOHN
....Great pictures, but I can't enlarge them....Is it just me...? They go to the enlarge status but are about the same size as originals.
WHEEL LOAD
gondola loaded with old wheels
PIG SPACING
TIGHT SPACE BETWEEN PIGS
LUGO WESTBOUND
DOUBLE CROSSOVERS LOOKING TOWARDS SUMMIT
WEST TO SUMMIT
LUGO CROSSOVERS TRACKS DIP HERE AND GO UP IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
START TRIPLE TRACK TO S...
START OF 3 TRACKS CP MARTINEZ
CP MARTINEZ
MARTINEZ SPUR HAS BECOME THIRD MAIN TRACK FAR LEFT
HWY 138/CUT FOR SUMMIT
HWY 138 IS WHERE PICTURES WERE TAKEN ABOVE TRAINS,75FT ABOVE TRACKS
DOUBLE STACK DETAILS
CHECK OUT THE DETAILS ON THE WELL CAR
DASH8 40BW/GP 60B
BNSF HERITAGE SCHEME
GP60M 149
STILL ALL SANTA FE,IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY YOU WILL SEE THE FADED BNSF INTIALS UNDER THE CAB WINDOW
DASH 8 40B 8634
EASTBOUND ABOUT TO CREST THE SUMMIT
7699 SUMMIT
WESTBOUND PIG/DOUBLESTACK
WESTBOUND SUMMIT
CROSSING OVER AT SUMMIT AS THERE WAS AN EASTBOUND APPROACHING
SIGNAL BRIDGES
NEW SIGNAL BRIDGES AT SUMMIT
SUMMIT WEST
DESCENDING SUMMIT WESTBOUND
SUMMIT CAJON
IF YOU LO0K CLOSLY YOU CAN SEE MAINTENANCE TRUCK ON RIGHT SIDE OF TRAIN,WERE DOING SOME WELDING ON FROG AREA OF SWITCH
SIGNALS EASTBOUND CONTROL SIGNALS SUMMIT
WESTBOUND WAITING ON TWO INTERMODAL TRAINS ALSO HEADING WEST.IF YOU LOOK AT LEFT OF TRAIN YOU CAN SEE THIRD MAIN TRACK,PRE FABRICATED SWITCHES AND A LARGE PILE OF BALLAST
CAJON SUMMIT
GUARD SHACK AT PRIVATE CROSSING ON LEFT SIDE OF TRACKS LOOKING EAST FROM HWY 138
summit from hwy 138
summit cajon pass
SIGNAL BRIDGES ON GROND
summit crossovers
DOUBLE CROSSOVERS AT SUMMIT,PRIVATE CROSSING
.....Warren, anyplace that has less numbers of Rattlesnakes, has to be better...ha.
Interesting info you provided. I did not realize Cajon was over the San Andreas Fault. I suppose that is something to ponder.
Thanks for the info.
PS: Down in the Yucca flats where we {my co.} had us running automotive tests many years ago, there was no shortage of Sidewinders, and others.
Modelcar wrote: ...I'm a little surprised at the stated elevation at Cajon....It {the location}, gets lots of attention and interest and compared to the BNSF elevation over at Flagstaff, Az....which is almost twice as high at that crossing. Around 7,000 ft.
...I'm a little surprised at the stated elevation at Cajon....It {the location}, gets lots of attention and interest and compared to the BNSF elevation over at Flagstaff, Az....which is almost twice as high at that crossing. Around 7,000 ft.
I don't think it is the absolute elevation that commands attention, as much as the surrounding topography. Cajon Pass crosses the San Andreas Fault, where the Pacific Plate meets the North American Plate (at Blue Cut). The surrounding hills created quite a challenge for the original route engineers.
Route 66 follows the alignment through both locations for obvious reasons. It may be access that gives Cajon the nod to the Ash Fork-Williams grade near Flagstaff. Also the Southern California population which outnumbers Coconino County by a bit .
Where BNSF crosses the Arizona Divide near Bellemont is an interesting juxtaposition with I-40 alongside. An intermodal consist with OTR truckers chugging along is quite the image ...
FWIW the scenery around Flagstaff is more invigorating - the Ponderosa pines and much fewer rattlesnakes.
I'll second that.
I was up there this weekend. I intended to shoot as many shots of the #1 track as possible. But stupid me , I forgot to upload my pictures before I left and only had a couple dozen left to shoot. Oh well, it's an excuse to go back soon. It was a great weekend, not too hot and noot too windy / cold. Met some railfans from Belgium (sp) and a couple from New Zeland. I do have some pics to post when I get a chance.....stay tunned....................
....Will look forward to your pictures, John.
UP AT CAJON ON NORTH SIDE OF TRACKS NEW SWITCHES FOR THE CROSSOVER AT SUMMIT FOR THE THIRD TRACK ARE ON THE GROUND,ALSO FRONT LOADER AND GRADER ARE THERE. THESE WERE PUT UP THERE ON FRIDAY 6-15-07. DOWN IN VICTORVILLE THE LOCAL FROM BARSTOW HAS BEEN BRINGING IN SUPPLYS FOR THE TRACK PROJECT,HAVE SEEN PRE-FABRICATED SWITCHES IN GONDOLAS,SIX SO FAR. THERE ARE FOUR OLD HI SIDE GONDOLAS LOADED WITH WOODEN CROSSTIES BEING UNLOADEDIN VICTORVILLE. I WAS GOING TO POST SOME PICTURES,BUT I HAD TO GO OUT OF TOWN,WILL GO UP TO SUMMIT TOM0RROW SO I CAN TAKE SOME UPDATED PICTURES WILL TRY TO POST TOMORROW. (6-19-07)
....Pictures at 11....?
Here's some survey trivia regarding Cajon Summit (for the BNSF lines) ...
The high point occurs at MP 56.15
The top of rail elevation is 3779.72
The westbound grade into the vertical curve is +0.12 %
The grade out of the VC is -0.58 %
It happens at a point of spiral-to-curve transition
This location is 125' north of Hwy. 138, which is 75 feet higher, due to a 1:1 cut
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