THIS PICTURE IS AT SUMMIT WHERE THE CROSSOVERS ARE LOCATED,THIS IS NOT BY THE UP TRACK. THIS IS THE TOP OF CAJON LOOKING EAST. UP TRACK IS ABOVE ON SLOPE DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM WHERE I TOOK PICTURE. YOU WILL SEE WHEN I POST THE OTHER PICTURES. I AM STANDING ON DIRT SHOULDER OF HIGHWAY 138 WHICH IS ABOVE MAINLINE. TWO TRACKS ARE IN A CUT AT THIS POINT. IF YOU ENLARGE THE PICTURE YOU WILL SEE THAT THE CONTROL SIGNAL SIGN READS "EAST BOUND CONTROL SIGNAL SUMMIT". LITTLE SIGN IN FRONT OF SIGNAL. JUST CLICK ON PICTURE.
JOHN
John:
Absolutely right - I have to look at the plans now and then
The UP connector is a mile down the track, down where the existing mainline 2 hooks up with ml 1 just shy of MP 57.
The project does start here - the new mainline will connect with the existing siding.
Hill 584 is outside the BNSF right of way. The R/W is 200' wide, centered on the existing ml 1. That would put the hill in the San Bernardino National Forest ...
....It should really be great to see the actual construction photos, once it all starts....Looking forward to it. Have never been on the ground at Cajon.
Quentin
If you look into my web site listed in my signature you would see that material was not there last Sept & Nov when I was there
sarahd wrote: HERES A PICTURE OF SIGNAL BRIDGES AT SUMMIT
HERES A PICTURE OF SIGNAL BRIDGES AT SUMMIT
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
Warren Smith wrote: Chad:Yes, the mainlines will be renumbered. So from uphill - UP, BNSF #1, 2 & 3 ...I am thinking Hill 582 lies between the existing #1 and 2 which, at that point, are widely separated. The landscaping up there looks gazebo-like from a distance.Yep, the new mainline from Summit to just beyond the I-15 OC will be "uphill" of the existing. There will be a crossover so that the new rails will cross Cajon Creek and Sullivan's Curve "downhill", then another crossover where the existing lines come together alongside Cajon Blvd. (Old Route 66). From that point through Blue Cut down to Keenbrook, the new grading will be on the "uphill" side, with retaining walls to protect Swarthout Canyon Road and some of the more extreme slopes.As a practical matter, once the rails are in place, they become three main lines ...I can't post the construction drawings, as they are BNSF property, but I hope the narratives (with progress photos) will help the railfans ...
Chad:
Yes, the mainlines will be renumbered. So from uphill - UP, BNSF #1, 2 & 3 ...
I am thinking Hill 582 lies between the existing #1 and 2 which, at that point, are widely separated. The landscaping up there looks gazebo-like from a distance.
Yep, the new mainline from Summit to just beyond the I-15 OC will be "uphill" of the existing. There will be a crossover so that the new rails will cross Cajon Creek and Sullivan's Curve "downhill", then another crossover where the existing lines come together alongside Cajon Blvd. (Old Route 66). From that point through Blue Cut down to Keenbrook, the new grading will be on the "uphill" side, with retaining walls to protect Swarthout Canyon Road and some of the more extreme slopes.
As a practical matter, once the rails are in place, they become three main lines ...
I can't post the construction drawings, as they are BNSF property, but I hope the narratives (with progress photos) will help the railfans ...
Thanks for all the great info Warren.
sarahd wrote:I TOOK THIS PICTURE YESTERDAY SO YOU OUT OF AREA TRAIN PEOPLE CAN SEE THEM,ALSO WHEN HELPERS ARE AT REAR OF TRAIN THEY USUALLY STAY ON TRAIN ALL THE WAY TO SAN BERNADINO. I HAVE MORE PICTURES OF THE AREA WILL TRY TO POST TOMORROW. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE THREE TRACKS UP AT SUMMIT WHICH STARTS AT THE OLD MARTINEZ SPUR AND HEADS WEST TO JUST BEFORE SUMMIT. THE END IS WHERE THE OLD SET OUT TRACK WAS IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA. I ONLY LIVE TEN MINUTES AWAY SO I CAN GO UP THERE ALMOST ANY TIME. ENJOY FOR NOW,JOHN
Welcome to the forum John. One slight correction, the sideing goes a bit further then Martinez down to Lugo.
Modelcar wrote: ....It should really be great to see the actual construction photos, once it all starts....Looking forward to it. Have never been on the ground at Cajon.
Well Quenten, if you ever get out this way be sure and look me up.
.....Chad, that would be fine....But doubt I'll be traveling that direction anymore. Did get into the Needles area many years ago when we were doing automotive test work out of Kingman, Az....We were running transmission tests on old 66 up through Oatman, Goldroad, etc....and down around Topock at the Colorado river.
I sure injoyed being around that area and being able to watch a bunch of Sante Fe operations through that area. That was right before Amtrak too, so I got to witness the "Chief" series of passenger trains too.....Really enjoyed being in the area. Was there 2 weeks and then back at the plant here in Indiana for 2 weeks and then the schedule would repeat.
Even got to run some on Ford Motor Co's 5 mile track down at Yucca Flats.....and so on....But never was in Cajon area.
sarahd wrote:WELL CHAD I WAS UP THERE TODAY AND SIDING YOU ARE REFERRING TO ENDS BEFORE LUGO;LUGO IS THE NEXT DOUBLE CROSSOVER EAST OF THE END OF TRIPLE TRACK. IF YOU CHECK THE TIMETABLE YOU WILL SEE THAT LUGO IS STILL TWO MORE MILES AWAY. I WILL BE POSTING MORE PICTURES IN A BIT. JOHN
My bad, I knew it went past the old Martinez spur but I rarely go past that spot on the side that track is on and you cant see it from the road. ( security)
Here's some survey trivia regarding Cajon Summit (for the BNSF lines) ...
The high point occurs at MP 56.15
The top of rail elevation is 3779.72
The westbound grade into the vertical curve is +0.12 %
The grade out of the VC is -0.58 %
It happens at a point of spiral-to-curve transition
This location is 125' north of Hwy. 138, which is 75 feet higher, due to a 1:1 cut
< back to regular programming >
....Pictures at 11....?
UP AT CAJON ON NORTH SIDE OF TRACKS NEW SWITCHES FOR THE CROSSOVER AT SUMMIT FOR THE THIRD TRACK ARE ON THE GROUND,ALSO FRONT LOADER AND GRADER ARE THERE. THESE WERE PUT UP THERE ON FRIDAY 6-15-07. DOWN IN VICTORVILLE THE LOCAL FROM BARSTOW HAS BEEN BRINGING IN SUPPLYS FOR THE TRACK PROJECT,HAVE SEEN PRE-FABRICATED SWITCHES IN GONDOLAS,SIX SO FAR. THERE ARE FOUR OLD HI SIDE GONDOLAS LOADED WITH WOODEN CROSSTIES BEING UNLOADEDIN VICTORVILLE. I WAS GOING TO POST SOME PICTURES,BUT I HAD TO GO OUT OF TOWN,WILL GO UP TO SUMMIT TOM0RROW SO I CAN TAKE SOME UPDATED PICTURES WILL TRY TO POST TOMORROW. (6-19-07)
....Will look forward to your pictures, John.
I'll second that.
I was up there this weekend. I intended to shoot as many shots of the #1 track as possible. But stupid me , I forgot to upload my pictures before I left and only had a couple dozen left to shoot. Oh well, it's an excuse to go back soon. It was a great weekend, not too hot and noot too windy / cold. Met some railfans from Belgium (sp) and a couple from New Zeland. I do have some pics to post when I get a chance.....stay tunned....................
...I'm a little surprised at the stated elevation at Cajon....It {the location}, gets lots of attention and interest and compared to the BNSF elevation over at Flagstaff, Az....which is almost twice as high at that crossing. Around 7,000 ft.
Modelcar wrote: ...I'm a little surprised at the stated elevation at Cajon....It {the location}, gets lots of attention and interest and compared to the BNSF elevation over at Flagstaff, Az....which is almost twice as high at that crossing. Around 7,000 ft.
Quentin:
I don't think it is the absolute elevation that commands attention, as much as the surrounding topography. Cajon Pass crosses the San Andreas Fault, where the Pacific Plate meets the North American Plate (at Blue Cut). The surrounding hills created quite a challenge for the original route engineers.
Route 66 follows the alignment through both locations for obvious reasons. It may be access that gives Cajon the nod to the Ash Fork-Williams grade near Flagstaff. Also the Southern California population which outnumbers Coconino County by a bit .
Where BNSF crosses the Arizona Divide near Bellemont is an interesting juxtaposition with I-40 alongside. An intermodal consist with OTR truckers chugging along is quite the image ...
FWIW the scenery around Flagstaff is more invigorating - the Ponderosa pines and much fewer rattlesnakes.
.....Warren, anyplace that has less numbers of Rattlesnakes, has to be better...ha.
Interesting info you provided. I did not realize Cajon was over the San Andreas Fault. I suppose that is something to ponder.
Thanks for the info.
PS: Down in the Yucca flats where we {my co.} had us running automotive tests many years ago, there was no shortage of Sidewinders, and others.
WHEEL LOAD
gondola loaded with old wheels
PIG SPACING
TIGHT SPACE BETWEEN PIGS
LUGO WESTBOUND
DOUBLE CROSSOVERS LOOKING TOWARDS SUMMIT
WEST TO SUMMIT
LUGO CROSSOVERS TRACKS DIP HERE AND GO UP IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
START TRIPLE TRACK TO S...
START OF 3 TRACKS CP MARTINEZ
CP MARTINEZ
MARTINEZ SPUR HAS BECOME THIRD MAIN TRACK FAR LEFT
HWY 138/CUT FOR SUMMIT
HWY 138 IS WHERE PICTURES WERE TAKEN ABOVE TRAINS,75FT ABOVE TRACKS
DOUBLE STACK DETAILS
CHECK OUT THE DETAILS ON THE WELL CAR
DASH8 40BW/GP 60B
BNSF HERITAGE SCHEME
GP60M 149
STILL ALL SANTA FE,IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY YOU WILL SEE THE FADED BNSF INTIALS UNDER THE CAB WINDOW
DASH 8 40B 8634
EASTBOUND ABOUT TO CREST THE SUMMIT
7699 SUMMIT
WESTBOUND PIG/DOUBLESTACK
WESTBOUND SUMMIT
CROSSING OVER AT SUMMIT AS THERE WAS AN EASTBOUND APPROACHING
SIGNAL BRIDGES
NEW SIGNAL BRIDGES AT SUMMIT
SUMMIT WEST
DESCENDING SUMMIT WESTBOUND
SUMMIT CAJON
IF YOU LO0K CLOSLY YOU CAN SEE MAINTENANCE TRUCK ON RIGHT SIDE OF TRAIN,WERE DOING SOME WELDING ON FROG AREA OF SWITCH
SIGNALS EASTBOUND CONTROL SIGNALS SUMMIT
WESTBOUND WAITING ON TWO INTERMODAL TRAINS ALSO HEADING WEST.IF YOU LOOK AT LEFT OF TRAIN YOU CAN SEE THIRD MAIN TRACK,PRE FABRICATED SWITCHES AND A LARGE PILE OF BALLAST
CAJON SUMMIT
GUARD SHACK AT PRIVATE CROSSING ON LEFT SIDE OF TRACKS LOOKING EAST FROM HWY 138
summit from hwy 138
summit cajon pass
SIGNAL BRIDGES ON GROND
summit crossovers
DOUBLE CROSSOVERS AT SUMMIT,PRIVATE CROSSING
....Great pictures, but I can't enlarge them....Is it just me...? They go to the enlarge status but are about the same size as originals.
http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z174/99sarahd/
try this link to pictures to enlarge
SORRY BUT IF YOU GO TO THE LINK YOU CAN ENLARGE PICTURES,WAS HAVING TROUBLE DOWNLOADING. JOHN
.....Yes, that works...! Thank You.
.....Great views. Gives me good views of Cajon. Beautiful track structure. I can see it has not been easy to put a good route thru there.
From what I understand it has been under almost constant improvement over the years.
QUENTIN,IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE TAKEN AT LUGO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TRACK IN BOTH DIRECTIONS DIPS A BIT;ITS ABOUT TWO MILES TO SUMMIT HEADING WEST;GOING EAST ITS ABOUT ONE MILE BEFORE THE TRACK HEADS DOWN HILL AGAIN HEADING TO VICTORVILLE.THERE ARE MANY TRAINS GOING THRU HERE ALL THE TIME. I WAS UP AT SUMMIT FOR ABOUT AN HOUR,THERE WERE SIX TRAINS HEADING WEST AND ONE EAST. IN ONE OF THE PICTURES YOU WILL SEE A TRAIN STOPPED ON THE TRACK ON THE RIGHT SIDE,BEHIND HIM WERE THREE OTHER TRAINS WAITING TO GO DOWN. AT SUMMIT IS WHERE THERE IS A THIRD TRACK THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE CONTROL POINT CP MARTINEZ WHICH IS ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF. ITS NICE TO LIVE SO CLOSE CAN BE UP THERE AT ALMOST ANYTIME.
Cannot wait will be back there around mid July!
sarahd wrote: QUENTIN,IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE TAKEN AT LUGO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TRACK IN BOTH DIRECTIONS DIPS A BIT;ITS ABOUT TWO MILES TO SUMMIT HEADING WEST;GOING EAST ITS ABOUT ONE MILE BEFORE THE TRACK HEADS DOWN HILL AGAIN HEADING TO VICTORVILLE.THERE ARE MANY TRAINS GOING THRU HERE ALL THE TIME. I WAS UP AT SUMMIT FOR ABOUT AN HOUR,THERE WERE SIX TRAINS HEADING WEST AND ONE EAST. IN ONE OF THE PICTURES YOU WILL SEE A TRAIN STOPPED ON THE TRACK ON THE RIGHT SIDE,BEHIND HIM WERE THREE OTHER TRAINS WAITING TO GO DOWN. AT SUMMIT IS WHERE THERE IS A THIRD TRACK THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE CONTROL POINT CP MARTINEZ WHICH IS ABOUT A MILE AND A HALF. ITS NICE TO LIVE SO CLOSE CAN BE UP THERE AT ALMOST ANYTIME. JOHN
Guys - a construction (or lack thereof) update ...
The permits to be issued by the Forest Service - relating to grading and drainage issues - are still pending. And the Morongo Indian tribe is setting up an archaeologist to ensure that no ancient sites are disturbed.
These were addressed during the EIR process, but no digging can proceed without mitigation measures in place.
Meanwhile, of course, BNSF is stockpiling hardware, the construction equipment is mobilizing at several locations, and we have been busy staking limits and retaining wall layout.
I can't help but think back to the original route engineers. Even with less sophisticated equipment, they pretty much kept to an expedited schedule ...
...Thanks Warren for the update. Looking forward to your reports.
What was the ruling grade the original engineers / surveyors put up across there.
Modelcar wrote: What was the ruling grade the original engineers / surveyors put up across there.
I would say it is the same as now. The design constraints are equivalent. It's just that (like everything else) it took more personnel to accomplish the same tasks. The tunnels at Alray were built in 1913. The grading involved to build the cut slopes is a relatively easy operation today, but it must have been more cost-effective to tunnel back then. Plus, they didn't need double-stack clearance either
The grade past Hill 582 is 2.18%. Where the two existing mainlines run together along Cajon Boulevard - just before the split at Sullivan's Curve - is at a 2.15% grade. And that is what all the curves, cuts, fills, culverts, bridges and tunnels are about. The same holds for highway design - just a taller controlling grade for the Interstates. That is why Route 66 followed the Chicago to Los Angeles alignment. The Model Ts had about the same "pulling" capacity as the steam locos ...
....Good stuff Warren. Interesting. You're mention of rt. 66 reminds me of a location near Kingman, Az...Heading southwest after one got down "perfume pass"...rt. 66 viered off a bit to the right and down thru the desert and then climbed up over the pass....{can't remember the name....was it Sitgreaves...}, anyway, then on down around Goldroad and Oatman and some really ruff hill side grades and finally down by Topock. At the same time, the Sante Fe managed to run down Yucca Flats area with relative flat running {not quite}, but on down to Topock....Wonder why the fellows took 66 up and over the steep pass to reach the same place...?
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