I read in Railway Age magizine that the new TGV broke the speed record for a conventanal train on a test run by sustaining a speed of 553 kilometres per hour (343.63 MPH)!!!
Here a news artical:
Paris - The French high-speed TGV train broke its own rail speed record when it reached 553 kilometres per hour, the daily Le Parisien reported Wednesday.The record was reached Tuesday afternoon by a special train comprised of two motors and three specially equipped cars.Two test runs were held in secret on the new Paris to Strasbourg line, with the train reaching the new record during the second run at a spot 193 kilometres east of Paris.The previous record, 515.3 kilometres per hour, was set by another TGV train on May 18, 1990.The TGV trains carrying passengers often reach speeds of 300 to 320kph, with the higher speeds more usual on the new line linking Strasbourg with the capital.Magnetic levitation (maglev) trains have achieved faster speeds in Germany, with the Transrapid clocking 581kph, but the TGV holds the conventional contact-rail record.A maglev train operates between Shanghai's international airport and China's business hub, but it is technically capable of only 450kph on the short 30-kilometre stretch of track. A longer link between Shanghai and neighbouring cities is expected to see speeds of 500kph.A new Shanghai to Beijing 'bullet' train based on Japan's Shinkansen high-speed trains is expected to run at speeds of 250kph from April.Japan's Shinkansen currently run at a maximum 300kph, but one company, JR East, is planning to push that to 360kph by 2011.Nikkei Weekly reported recently that the next-generation Shinkansen, the Fastech 360, could achieve speeds of up to 398kph.One executive at JR East told the newspaper that speed records during tests were 'meaningless,' however.'What matters is speed during commercial operation,' Takashi Endo was quoted as saying.
At least latetrack.. ahem.. amtrack has no use for this technology at this time.
Sure wish we can race airlines from any city to any city by high speed rail in the USA.
Nice to race airplanes? I for one would be more than happy to see Amtrak get average speeds back up to what they were in the streamliner era. "Reduce To 90" anyone?
Cheers!
~METRO
90, Hell. Ive gotten out of the 110's for some curves around the USA only to get back above 110 once everything was stable again.
THAT is all Im going to say, after all, 40 ton and 18 wheels....
Safety Valve wrote: 90, Hell. Ive gotten out of the 110's for some curves around the USA only to get back above 110 once everything was stable again.THAT is all Im going to say, after all, 40 ton and 18 wheels....
I presume you're pushing a Volvo tractor with a speedometer that registers in KPH.
Chuck
tomikawaTT wrote: Safety Valve wrote: 90, Hell. Ive gotten out of the 110's for some curves around the USA only to get back above 110 once everything was stable again.THAT is all Im going to say, after all, 40 ton and 18 wheels.... I presume you're pushing a Volvo tractor with a speedometer that registers in KPH.Chuck
Yea shure uh huh. har har har, or even a Scania.
No, I had a 94 COE with a 500 detroit and unrestricted and no qualcomm to nueter it. Had it for 3 months. If I remember correctly NYC to the OH Line was only about 3 hours or so on good days instead of 7.
They finally programmed the computer to choke it down to 60 mph and it became very undriveable what with the power curve meeting the three top gears. They finally had to get rid of it and me. LOL.
I keep thinking of the possibilties with the TGV here in the USA. They can probably run St. Louis to DC in 4 hours instead of 2 days by Greyhound bus or amtrack.
That's almost too fast to take a picture of....
At 504 feet per second, the train would cover 5 feet during a 1/1000 sec expose!
There's a YouTube video of the "old" TGV record run that's pretty neat to watch.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd wrote:the train would cover 5 feet during a 1/1000 sec expose!
Try that again.
timz wrote: oltmannd wrote:the train would cover 5 feet during a 1/1000 sec expose! Try that again.
Safety Valve wrote: I keep thinking of the possibilties with the TGV here in the USA. They can probably run St. Louis to DC in 4 hours instead of 2 days by Greyhound bus or Amtrak.
I keep thinking of the possibilties with the TGV here in the USA. They can probably run St. Louis to DC in 4 hours instead of 2 days by Greyhound bus or Amtrak.
Just playing with my calculator...
300kph=187mph, plus some time to accelerate/decelerate at intermediate stops
Chicago to:
New York, 6 hours (PRR)
Denver, 6.4 hours (CB&Q)
Oakland (Emeryville), 16.5 hours (Amtrak CZ)
New Orleans, 5 3/4 hours
Los Angeles, 14 hours (AT&SF) or 14.6 (RI-SP)
Seattle, 14 1/4 hours (MILW-hey, a guy can dream, can't he?)
LA-New Orleans (Sunset Limited), 12.4 hours
LA-Seattle (Coast Starlight), 8.7 hours
Now, these are totally meaningless in any real world scenario but intriguing in an armchair sort of way...might the greater distances in North America actually be more suited to HSR that the shorter distances in Europe? NY, Denver & NO would be a short day trip from Chicago. The Pacific Coast a long overnight (comparable to CHI-NYC in the 30's & 40's). Does that really compare so horribly with air travel for business or lesiure travel? (CHI-MSP in, say, 4-5 hours?) Well, as long as I'm dreaming, off to bed...
It can take a day to get on a flight from Little Rock to Baltimore including time to get through security on both ends. TGV would do the same job in half the time effectively putting short to medium haul airliners out of business.
We have the wonderful Acela, but they are dragging a cannonball and restricted to not much faster than the old electrics that came before them. Be nice to build a ROW suitable for 300 mph travel and let them really get up and run.
Here's a video. Amazing!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1amjc_tgv-4402-est-europeen-557kmh
One reply to the vido refers to the fact that they are already up to 568 kph!
By the way, did I see a double line of fencing to the left or not? If not, I would not want to be the farmer that uses that field. Think what a cow would do to services if it gets on the tracks.
By the way, did you notice that the train was running right hand? This is not the normal way in France but only in the northeastern part known as Alsace-Lorraine. This area was once part of Germany. However, as far as I know, the new high speed line is actually to the west of that area because a mountain range is in the way (Vosges).
Still, it is impressive. When the new Dutch high speed line finally gets into service (later this year) I will test it.
greetings,
Marc Immeker
PS Chicago - Los Angeles by tgv would be boring because of the very long tunnels through the mountains!
Kevin C. Smith wrote: Safety Valve wrote: I keep thinking of the possibilties with the TGV here in the USA. They can probably run St. Louis to DC in 4 hours instead of 2 days by Greyhound bus or Amtrak.Just playing with my calculator...300kph=187mph, plus some time to accelerate/decelerate at intermediate stopsChicago to:New York, 6 hours (PRR)Denver, 6.4 hours (CB&Q)Oakland (Emeryville), 16.5 hours (Amtrak CZ)New Orleans, 5 3/4 hoursLos Angeles, 14 hours (AT&SF) or 14.6 (RI-SP)Seattle, 14 1/4 hours (MILW-hey, a guy can dream, can't he?)LA-New Orleans (Sunset Limited), 12.4 hoursLA-Seattle (Coast Starlight), 8.7 hoursNow, these are totally meaningless in any real world scenario but intriguing in an armchair sort of way...might the greater distances in North America actually be more suited to HSR that the shorter distances in Europe? NY, Denver & NO would be a short day trip from Chicago. The Pacific Coast a long overnight (comparable to CHI-NYC in the 30's & 40's). Does that really compare so horribly with air travel for business or lesiure travel? (CHI-MSP in, say, 4-5 hours?) Well, as long as I'm dreaming, off to bed...
Here's where you can take the concept of HSR kicking and screaming out of the world of fantasy and into the realm of realistic possibilities - put yourself in the shoes of a UPS or FedEx exec and contemplate those running times you've just posted above....
Moral of the story - you just gotta know who to sell it to!
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:As has been mentioned elsewhere, the TGV achieves its highest speeds on a dedicated and exclusive right of way that connects with the existing system only at the endpoints and larger intermediate cities. Such an operation in this country would need virtually an unlimited start-up budget just for right of way acquisition and construction so I don't foresee it happening anytime soon just based on financial considerations.
Just like the New Tokkaido Line in Japan. Nonetheless, I'm amazed that anything running flanged-wheel-on-steel can be safe above about 200 mph (approx. 325 kph). We may ridicule the French, but technologically they have shown the rest of the world a thing or two.
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:I wonder what makes FM think that UPS or FedEx would be willing to buy?
I wonder if Paul is even aware of the statements made by UPS and FedEx reps regarding the current US rail system.
And why is it FedEx has an interest in the European rail system?
Here's a hint: It ain't the truffles.
I'm quite aware of the statements that UPS and FedEx executives (especially FedEx) have made about the current state of North American rail service. While UPS is quite willing to pay a premium for expedited service and has the traffic volume to get what it wants, I would not be too sure if it would be willing to a larger premium for super-expedited service and to pay extra upfront costs for the specialized equipment for said service. After all, conventional truck trailers or even Z-van trailers would be unacceptable for TGV-type service or UPS would have to spend more money for transloading from road vehicles to specialized express cars.
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: After all, conventional truck trailers or even Z-van trailers would be unacceptable for TGV-type service or UPS would have to spend more money for transloading from road vehicles to specialized express cars.
After all, conventional truck trailers or even Z-van trailers would be unacceptable for TGV-type service or UPS would have to spend more money for transloading from road vehicles to specialized express cars.
There are usually 2 transloads between pick up and delivery. So, why not transload directly into a tgv like the French mail does?
And here is a stylized representation of the new TGV-Est service:
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:I'm quite aware of the statements that UPS and FedEx executives (especially FedEx) have made about the current state of North American rail service. While UPS is quite willing to pay a premium for expedited service and has the traffic volume to get what it wants, I would not be too sure if it would be willing to a larger premium for super-expedited service and to pay extra upfront costs for the specialized equipment for said service. After all, conventional truck trailers or even Z-van trailers would be unacceptable for TGV-type service or UPS would have to spend more money for transloading from road vehicles to specialized express cars.
Your take on this is correct. FedEx Ground is mostly a regional and interregional LTL business focused on a small group of specific customers which makes it a poor fit for rail. UPS is a national consumer-focused door-to-door system with economy of scale and product flows that can extract good value from using rail. Emotion has nothing to do with it. Transloads cost money and time, as does flipping from one size and shape of equipment to another. The European model is interesting but hardly a made-ready prototype for North American emulation any more than North American models plop ready-made into a European setting. Logistics is a global game and regional parocialism or ignorance of foreign practice are not significant factors in decision making.
S. Hadid
The video was awesome, almost unbelievable..this is what I imagined 21st century railroading to look like when I was a child. I am glad to have been allowed to see this..I can only imagine what it is like ( from a safe distance) at trackside...incredible...the posting on what timings would look like in the U.S made my jaw drop..one of these days, I hope we pull ourselves out of the 19th centry...on a related, slightly OT note, I saw this today and thought id share it for those who hadnt seen it..the planet Earth from Space in the 21st Century...at night..absolutely awesome...as well.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: I'm quite aware of the statements that UPS and FedEx executives (especially FedEx) have made about the current state of North American rail service. While UPS is quite willing to pay a premium for expedited service and has the traffic volume to get what it wants, I would not be too sure if it would be willing to a larger premium for super-expedited service and to pay extra upfront costs for the specialized equipment for said service. After all, conventional truck trailers or even Z-van trailers would be unacceptable for TGV-type service or UPS would have to spend more money for transloading from road vehicles to specialized express cars.
How specialized would it have to be? And with bi-modal technology there'd be no need for transload, just modal transfer.
Lest we forget, at one time in this country fast freights were approaching 100 mph sustained speeds using 1930's technology. If that trend had continued, who's to say we wouldn't have TGV-type speeds on our freight railroads?
FYI - the RailRunner bogie is rated for 106 mph, far more than what is needed for the US rail network. If need be, it wouldn't seem that hard to upgrade the technology for higher speeds if the demand for such suddenly appeared. In other words, it's not that much of a technological leap.
wallyworld wrote: ...on a related, slightly OT note, I saw this today and thought id share it for those who hadnt seen it..the planet Earth from Space in the 21st Century...at night..absolutely awesome...as well.
...on a related, slightly OT note, I saw this today and thought id share it for those who hadnt seen it..the planet Earth from Space in the 21st Century...at night..absolutely awesome...as well.
Wait a minute! Why's it so dark over Canada?
Oh eh, you guys up north weren't kidding when you claimed to roll up the sidewalks and blow out the candles at night!
1435mm wrote: CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: I'm quite aware of the statements that UPS and FedEx executives (especially FedEx) have made about the current state of North American rail service. While UPS is quite willing to pay a premium for expedited service and has the traffic volume to get what it wants, I would not be too sure if it would be willing to a larger premium for super-expedited service and to pay extra upfront costs for the specialized equipment for said service. After all, conventional truck trailers or even Z-van trailers would be unacceptable for TGV-type service or UPS would have to spend more money for transloading from road vehicles to specialized express cars.Your take on this is correct. FedEx Ground is mostly a regional and interregional LTL business focused on a small group of specific customers which makes it a poor fit for rail. UPS is a national consumer-focused door-to-door system with economy of scale and product flows that can extract good value from using rail. Emotion has nothing to do with it. Transloads cost money and time, as does flipping from one size and shape of equipment to another. The European model is interesting but hardly a made-ready prototype for North American emulation any more than North American models plop ready-made into a European setting. Logistics is a global game and regional parocialism or ignorance of foreign practice are not significant factors in decision making. S. Hadid
UPS, FedEx, and DHL are all competitors in the same market, despite organizational nuances. The statements made by the FedEx chief regarding the US rail system lead me to believe that they'd jump at the chance to utilize rail economies if transit speeds were improved.
Bi-modal technology transcends national parochialism. US-style TOFC (as prefered by UPS)wouldn't fit in Europe, but RoadRailer and RailRunner would.
futuremodal wrote:Lest we forget, at one time in this country fast freights were approaching 100 mph sustained speeds using 1930's technology.
Lest we forget, at one time in this country fast freights were approaching 100 mph sustained speeds using 1930's technology.
I think that's not sustained in the historical record. Years ago in grad school I spent a couple of weekends reading every article in Railway Age on so-called "mainliner" and redball freights from the 1920s through the 1940s and I came away with a starkly different impression than you have. "Fast freight" then seemed to be anything that could maintain 35 mph average speed including intermediate terminals, which when you think about it isn't all that easy. The labor input required to sustain fast-freight schedules in the 1920-1970 era were staggering and probably were not financially feasible even then, let alone now.
It is true that the railfan press tends to protray the exceptional as the typical especially when it can do dual-duty as a lesson from wise elders to callow youth, and if one's knowledge of railroading were limited to the pages of Trains, Railroad, Railfan, and the flossy color-picture books and Beebe & Clegg potboilers one could be very poorly educated indeed.
I like the TGV trains very much -- my first experience riding Thalys in France and Belgium a few years ago was an eye-opening object lesson in the lameness of the Acela and the current long-distance American passenger rail institution in general. But I don't think there's anything about TGV that can be translated meaningfully to North America without first making wholesale changes in social structure, politics, economics, and maybe history too.
futuremodal wrote:UPS, FedEx, and DHL are all competitors in the same market, despite organizational nuances.
UPS, FedEx, and DHL are all competitors in the same market, despite organizational nuances.
You're quite sure of that? "Regional LTL" is not a nuance. The business models strike me and a lot of other people I work with in shipping as very different. Traffic World has filled a lot of pages describing the difference.
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