Push Button Horns?

[cabforward]

i was not challenging whether they were in use.. i wrote in general terms about engine cameras for any r.r. and a worst-case scenario about crews' attitudes towards being taped on-the-job..

if you accept the need for taping crew operations, that's terrific.. it could reveal unsafe crew practices, unsafe mgmt. directives and who to blame for crossing accidents..

the only question left is, would the r.rs. spend money for engine cameras at both ends?

[cabforward]

i was not challenging whether they were in use.. i wrote in general terms about engine cameras for any r.r. and a worst-case scenario about crews' attitudes towards being taped on-the-job..

if you accept the need for taping crew operations, that's terrific.. it could reveal unsafe crew practices, unsafe mgmt. directives and who to blame for crossing accidents..

the only question left is, would the r.rs. spend money for engine cameras at both ends?

[wabash1]

but what i am saying is we already have them installed on the engines it dont bother me if they are there. there is also a mic with them. and it is like anything else while they are working it is recording time and date. if you tamper with it to disconnect it it logs this also either by stopping on date and time.( which all the company does then is go back and see where it was and who was on it.) and at this point its called tampering with a safty device and you get time off. its not hard to figure out if it is tampering or just failure. and you can see everything from when the gates come down to when yo hit the person.

[wabash1]

but what i am saying is we already have them installed on the engines it dont bother me if they are there. there is also a mic with them. and it is like anything else while they are working it is recording time and date. if you tamper with it to disconnect it it logs this also either by stopping on date and time.( which all the company does then is go back and see where it was and who was on it.) and at this point its called tampering with a safty device and you get time off. its not hard to figure out if it is tampering or just failure. and you can see everything from when the gates come down to when yo hit the person.

[cabforward]

wabash1,

nowadays people obey the law not because it is the thing to do but because of the fine & insurance..

the surveillance camera really cuts both ways..

i think it's o.k. to put highway drivers in fear of the law by using cameras at stoplights and r.r. crossings to cut down accidents, but i dont want to intimidate train crews into obeying the law for fear of losing their jobs..

engine cameras would surely be used heavily against engineers for slight infractions, more than to encourage highway drivers to stop at the r.r. tracks..

also, a few engineers might take cameras personally and tamper with them to avoid being recorded or as a signal to mgmt. that they dont appreciate being taped while working, along with the other technology that logs engine data, gps tracking, etc..

if crossing safety is the main thing, the crossing cameras would work better as they stay in one place, where engine cameras (if used on long-haul runs) could break down anywhere and require service at odd hours and circumstances..

under crowded yard conditions or many crossings in a dense area (chicago, new york), engine cameras might be used to identify situations that are unsafe for crews and vehicles.. they would be temporary and removed when a situation has been resolved..

[cabforward]

wabash1,

nowadays people obey the law not because it is the thing to do but because of the fine & insurance..

the surveillance camera really cuts both ways..

i think it's o.k. to put highway drivers in fear of the law by using cameras at stoplights and r.r. crossings to cut down accidents, but i dont want to intimidate train crews into obeying the law for fear of losing their jobs..

engine cameras would surely be used heavily against engineers for slight infractions, more than to encourage highway drivers to stop at the r.r. tracks..

also, a few engineers might take cameras personally and tamper with them to avoid being recorded or as a signal to mgmt. that they dont appreciate being taped while working, along with the other technology that logs engine data, gps tracking, etc..

if crossing safety is the main thing, the crossing cameras would work better as they stay in one place, where engine cameras (if used on long-haul runs) could break down anywhere and require service at odd hours and circumstances..

under crowded yard conditions or many crossings in a dense area (chicago, new york), engine cameras might be used to identify situations that are unsafe for crews and vehicles.. they would be temporary and removed when a situation has been resolved..

[Anonymous]

You are right about the automatic horns at the crossings. I am not in support of them, because it is a hazard. I just was telling everyone this because it has been proposed in areas. I do not like it at all, but was just saying that it is slowly trying to become a reality. I like hearing an engineer laying on the horn. Especially when that train is going about 65 MPH!!

[Anonymous]

You are right about the automatic horns at the crossings. I am not in support of them, because it is a hazard. I just was telling everyone this because it has been proposed in areas. I do not like it at all, but was just saying that it is slowly trying to become a reality. I like hearing an engineer laying on the horn. Especially when that train is going about 65 MPH!!

[wabash1]

cabforward

Tthe trooper is on the engine and the catch cars are running with us. when someone violates the gates and lights the trooper radios a discription and direction to the catch cars. they in turn are waiting for this car to show up . then ticket this car. how is this right it works on the same principle as speed traps from a plane. the catch cars are only writing tickets for the guy who seen and timed the violater. in court the guy in the plane with the cop who ticketed the guy needs to show up for ticket to be valid. but either way once you heve been ticketed for this 2 things happen, your insurance goes up and 2 you might think twice before running the gates you never know who is on the engine. on some engines we have there is cameras on there it takes photos of what is happing in front of us. it shows the gates down speed my train is going and who is going around the gate. it showns from the time i start blowing for the crossing, now this is good and bad. this is evidince that can be introduced in court. it can incriminate the railroad also as if the engineer started blowing late . in most part it is used to make sure the public dont win. any lawsuits.

[wabash1]

cabforward

Tthe trooper is on the engine and the catch cars are running with us. when someone violates the gates and lights the trooper radios a discription and direction to the catch cars. they in turn are waiting for this car to show up . then ticket this car. how is this right it works on the same principle as speed traps from a plane. the catch cars are only writing tickets for the guy who seen and timed the violater. in court the guy in the plane with the cop who ticketed the guy needs to show up for ticket to be valid. but either way once you heve been ticketed for this 2 things happen, your insurance goes up and 2 you might think twice before running the gates you never know who is on the engine. on some engines we have there is cameras on there it takes photos of what is happing in front of us. it shows the gates down speed my train is going and who is going around the gate. it showns from the time i start blowing for the crossing, now this is good and bad. this is evidince that can be introduced in court. it can incriminate the railroad also as if the engineer started blowing late . in most part it is used to make sure the public dont win. any lawsuits.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cabforward

this may happen in a lot of places..

operation lifesaver has sc state troopers riding engines in populated areas.. other cops are posted at intervals along the r-o-w.. when the engine cop sees a violator ignoring the signaling eqpt., he radios a motoring cop to intercept the errant driver..

i cant understand how they make it work.. how does the cop in a cop car intercept the violator? the cop in a car has to be at the crossing, where he would see the crime anyway, or the cop would have to be in a road that parallels the r-o-w.. how would he catch the violator when he is driving in the next street over?

i have long been in favor of cameras at intersections to photograph red-light runners.. it would be great if r.rs. and govt. would post cameras at high-violation crossings..

maybe the system could set-up to show the eqpt. working and the violator defying it in one frame..

many states photograph & cite red-light runners.. why not crossing violators? sc does not do this, yet.. we are rural & hickified.. not too many people & not enough fatalities, but someday..

Ok - now we can have a dialog. I am in agreement with you. We have some cameras at intersections right now. They say they are used for traffic control.
But in my mind they are getting the public used to them, so eventually they can use them for red light runners.

I think the govt has started not blatantly shoving things in people's faces; they are taking a more subtle approach about things.

I am all for this type of thing. I drive in a city of about 230k and lots of college students and young people. Our driving habits are terrible. Coffee, cigarette and cell phone. Most people can't concentrate on the radio and driving!

So maybe cameras at the crossings would help eliminate some of the problems.

The real heart of the problem is - we don't make people accountable for their actions any more. We have gotten so lax, so we don't step on toes, don't want to offend anyone and don't want to be in court all the time. We have to get to a middle point - where we aren't terrified of the law, but it helps protect us from people with total disregard of the law. Just because railroads have deep pockets and will settle rather than spend time in court, why should they be put in that situation in the first place. Why should any of us nearby be put in that situation?

Jen

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cabforward

this may happen in a lot of places..

operation lifesaver has sc state troopers riding engines in populated areas.. other cops are posted at intervals along the r-o-w.. when the engine cop sees a violator ignoring the signaling eqpt., he radios a motoring cop to intercept the errant driver..

i cant understand how they make it work.. how does the cop in a cop car intercept the violator? the cop in a car has to be at the crossing, where he would see the crime anyway, or the cop would have to be in a road that parallels the r-o-w.. how would he catch the violator when he is driving in the next street over?

i have long been in favor of cameras at intersections to photograph red-light runners.. it would be great if r.rs. and govt. would post cameras at high-violation crossings..

maybe the system could set-up to show the eqpt. working and the violator defying it in one frame..

many states photograph & cite red-light runners.. why not crossing violators? sc does not do this, yet.. we are rural & hickified.. not too many people & not enough fatalities, but someday..

Ok - now we can have a dialog. I am in agreement with you. We have some cameras at intersections right now. They say they are used for traffic control.
But in my mind they are getting the public used to them, so eventually they can use them for red light runners.

I think the govt has started not blatantly shoving things in people's faces; they are taking a more subtle approach about things.

I am all for this type of thing. I drive in a city of about 230k and lots of college students and young people. Our driving habits are terrible. Coffee, cigarette and cell phone. Most people can't concentrate on the radio and driving!

So maybe cameras at the crossings would help eliminate some of the problems.

The real heart of the problem is - we don't make people accountable for their actions any more. We have gotten so lax, so we don't step on toes, don't want to offend anyone and don't want to be in court all the time. We have to get to a middle point - where we aren't terrified of the law, but it helps protect us from people with total disregard of the law. Just because railroads have deep pockets and will settle rather than spend time in court, why should they be put in that situation in the first place. Why should any of us nearby be put in that situation?

Jen

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railpac

Push buttons are normally used only on locos with 'desktop' control stands. However, most locos with AAR stands have the adjustable horn lever, all of NS's locos have the AAR stand, and therefore lever control for the horn. EMD will be using the AAR stand on all new locos, so the 'push button' might just go away for the time being.

Railpac, we have more than a few old sd40s with the pushbutton. The NS units that I have seen (newer) the lever is still tripping an electropneumatic valve.
Ken

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railpac

Push buttons are normally used only on locos with 'desktop' control stands. However, most locos with AAR stands have the adjustable horn lever, all of NS's locos have the AAR stand, and therefore lever control for the horn. EMD will be using the AAR stand on all new locos, so the 'push button' might just go away for the time being.

Railpac, we have more than a few old sd40s with the pushbutton. The NS units that I have seen (newer) the lever is still tripping an electropneumatic valve.
Ken

[cabforward]

this may happen in a lot of places..

operation lifesaver has sc state troopers riding engines in populated areas.. other cops are posted at intervals along the r-o-w.. when the engine cop sees a violator ignoring the signaling eqpt., he radios a motoring cop to intercept the errant driver..

i cant understand how they make it work.. how does the cop in a cop car intercept the violator? the cop in a car has to be at the crossing, where he would see the crime anyway, or the cop would have to be in a road that parallels the r-o-w.. how would he catch the violator when he is driving in the next street over?

i have long been in favor of cameras at intersections to photograph red-light runners.. it would be great if r.rs. and govt. would post cameras at high-violation crossings..

maybe the system could set-up to show the eqpt. working and the violator defying it in one frame..

many states photograph & cite red-light runners.. why not crossing violators? sc does not do this, yet.. we are rural & hickified.. not too many people & not enough fatalities, but someday..

[cabforward]

this may happen in a lot of places..

operation lifesaver has sc state troopers riding engines in populated areas.. other cops are posted at intervals along the r-o-w.. when the engine cop sees a violator ignoring the signaling eqpt., he radios a motoring cop to intercept the errant driver..

i cant understand how they make it work.. how does the cop in a cop car intercept the violator? the cop in a car has to be at the crossing, where he would see the crime anyway, or the cop would have to be in a road that parallels the r-o-w.. how would he catch the violator when he is driving in the next street over?

i have long been in favor of cameras at intersections to photograph red-light runners.. it would be great if r.rs. and govt. would post cameras at high-violation crossings..

maybe the system could set-up to show the eqpt. working and the violator defying it in one frame..

many states photograph & cite red-light runners.. why not crossing violators? sc does not do this, yet.. we are rural & hickified.. not too many people & not enough fatalities, but someday..

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

ps....for those who don't like train whistles, think AMBIANCE!

For others who don't like train whistles, think AMBULANCE!

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

ps....for those who don't like train whistles, think AMBIANCE!

For others who don't like train whistles, think AMBULANCE!

[wabash1]

I also dont blow the whistle hard when creeping along i have good sight at the crossings and will take it easy on the horn. It is a violation to not blow the horn even if nobody is comming . i blown the whistle so if the trainmaster or roadforman or fra guy is around sitting in the dark watching, but if i am at track speed cover your ears im going to make a bunch of noise.

the adjustable horn somebody is talking about here on ns engines just where is the adjustment at? on all engines i have been on ( exspecially dash9) its a lever that is similar to a push button only lever style. its done electronicly.

[wabash1]

I also dont blow the whistle hard when creeping along i have good sight at the crossings and will take it easy on the horn. It is a violation to not blow the horn even if nobody is comming . i blown the whistle so if the trainmaster or roadforman or fra guy is around sitting in the dark watching, but if i am at track speed cover your ears im going to make a bunch of noise.

the adjustable horn somebody is talking about here on ns engines just where is the adjustment at? on all engines i have been on ( exspecially dash9) its a lever that is similar to a push button only lever style. its done electronicly.

[Mookie]

Mook is rolling up her sleeves to comment on several postings.

The idiot that scared me half to death - came roaring up there just as the gates were done going down - he took a quick glance, saw the east incoming and decided he would have more than enough time to get across 6 tracks, before the engine. He pulled around the gate and missed the incoming engine by a whisker. The one he COULDN"T see, but that the gate and lights were telling him was close by.

Our tracks are incredibly rough - all 6 sets of them. But that doesn't slow down the people that want to get across there - no matter what. Hope it is a life and death situation they are rushing to, cuz it could be their death!

And - this is a very residential area. The south tracks come right through a neighborhood and the north and south combine to go past several residences. It is also the entrance/exit to a yard, so the trains are not going all that fast and they can watch very closely the car traffic. Some use the horn sparringly in broad daylight when they have good visuals. I am sure the neighbors appreciate that! At night is a little different - visuals not so good. But the neighbors knew that when they moved into that neighborhood - the tracks have been there since Hector was a pup!

Mookie

[Mookie]

Mook is rolling up her sleeves to comment on several postings.

The idiot that scared me half to death - came roaring up there just as the gates were done going down - he took a quick glance, saw the east incoming and decided he would have more than enough time to get across 6 tracks, before the engine. He pulled around the gate and missed the incoming engine by a whisker. The one he COULDN"T see, but that the gate and lights were telling him was close by.

Our tracks are incredibly rough - all 6 sets of them. But that doesn't slow down the people that want to get across there - no matter what. Hope it is a life and death situation they are rushing to, cuz it could be their death!

And - this is a very residential area. The south tracks come right through a neighborhood and the north and south combine to go past several residences. It is also the entrance/exit to a yard, so the trains are not going all that fast and they can watch very closely the car traffic. Some use the horn sparringly in broad daylight when they have good visuals. I am sure the neighbors appreciate that! At night is a little different - visuals not so good. But the neighbors knew that when they moved into that neighborhood - the tracks have been there since Hector was a pup!

Mookie

[Puckdropper]

I wonder if keeping railroad crossings rough would force people to slow down for them... I know when driving on a country road to always slow down (and sometimes stop) for crossings, because they're quite often rough.

As far as NWOs go, perhaps the city with the ordinance would like to station two armed guards at each crossing with flags to make *sure* it's safe. To those ppl wanting the NWOs, I say "For Pete's sake! It's supposed to be loud so you're safe! These things aren't supposed to play Beethovens 9th symphony, they're supposed to tell you they're coming."

I watched a train over a city overpass that I never heard comming. As soon as I heard the diesels, the train was only a few hundred feet from where I was (if I was standing trackside... I was about 1/4 block up the street.)

[Puckdropper]

I wonder if keeping railroad crossings rough would force people to slow down for them... I know when driving on a country road to always slow down (and sometimes stop) for crossings, because they're quite often rough.

As far as NWOs go, perhaps the city with the ordinance would like to station two armed guards at each crossing with flags to make *sure* it's safe. To those ppl wanting the NWOs, I say "For Pete's sake! It's supposed to be loud so you're safe! These things aren't supposed to play Beethovens 9th symphony, they're supposed to tell you they're coming."

I watched a train over a city overpass that I never heard comming. As soon as I heard the diesels, the train was only a few hundred feet from where I was (if I was standing trackside... I was about 1/4 block up the street.)

[Jackflash]

Originally posted by cabforward

i read in this forum or elsewhere, that an engineer working yard or local switching eased up on the length of time he sounded each 'toot' to give nearby residents a break on disturbing their sleep..

Happens all the time, any job, as long as speed is slow and visability of the
crossing is good most hoggers myself included will back off on the horn
late at night, running at main track speed is another issue. jackflash

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