Push Button Horns?

[Anonymous]

I have been a railfan ever since I was a little kid, I haven't followed the industry happenings lately like I used to but something caught my eye the other day.

I read that new locomotives have airhorn/whistle control in the form of a little button, not the adjustable handle. And therefore engineers cannot control the horn anymore, it's just press the button and it wakes up everyone in a half mile.

Can this possibly be true? I personally cannot believe any locomotive manufacturer would do this. Nothing can send chills down the spine of my back like a good ol SD 40 barreling through an intersection while the engineer extracts colorful tones from the horn. Are engineers confined to just pressing the button now? Jeesh, now listening to whistles in the night is going to be a far more monotinous and boring practice!

I guess my question is if this is true how can train engineers stand for this? I am sure that when you are up in that seat you want control of EVERYTHING, because it's YOUR train, including that horn whose sound itself is almost an american icon; symbol of power, and strength. Since when is it a computer to determine how you should control your horn, and other elements of operation?

[Anonymous]

I have been a railfan ever since I was a little kid, I haven't followed the industry happenings lately like I used to but something caught my eye the other day.

I read that new locomotives have airhorn/whistle control in the form of a little button, not the adjustable handle. And therefore engineers cannot control the horn anymore, it's just press the button and it wakes up everyone in a half mile.

Can this possibly be true? I personally cannot believe any locomotive manufacturer would do this. Nothing can send chills down the spine of my back like a good ol SD 40 barreling through an intersection while the engineer extracts colorful tones from the horn. Are engineers confined to just pressing the button now? Jeesh, now listening to whistles in the night is going to be a far more monotinous and boring practice!

I guess my question is if this is true how can train engineers stand for this? I am sure that when you are up in that seat you want control of EVERYTHING, because it's YOUR train, including that horn whose sound itself is almost an american icon; symbol of power, and strength. Since when is it a computer to determine how you should control your horn, and other elements of operation?

[Anonymous]

It is an electropneumatic valve. Open or shut, you still control the duration. I have seen some units that have a pedal on the floor that will sound the long, long, short, long when depressed. These units still have the button. It is nothing new. Some of our SD40s have the "button."
Ken

[Anonymous]

It is an electropneumatic valve. Open or shut, you still control the duration. I have seen some units that have a pedal on the floor that will sound the long, long, short, long when depressed. These units still have the button. It is nothing new. Some of our SD40s have the "button."
Ken

[Mookie]

we have an SW10 that tools around the yards here in Lincoln. The old engineer plays that horn like a symphony. It is beautiful.

Mookie

[Mookie]

we have an SW10 that tools around the yards here in Lincoln. The old engineer plays that horn like a symphony. It is beautiful.

Mookie

[wabash1]

its either a button on desk tops or a lever like on our dash 9s and new sd70s either way its on or off. and as far as i am concerned i make as much noise as possible either at noon or 3am. if i am awake so will everyone in the area of my train.

[wabash1]

its either a button on desk tops or a lever like on our dash 9s and new sd70s either way its on or off. and as far as i am concerned i make as much noise as possible either at noon or 3am. if i am awake so will everyone in the area of my train.

[Anonymous]

Ok, since we're talking about horns here...
how exactly does horn work? What happens when an engineer presses that button? And whats the difference between number of chimes(How are those horns different?) I think thats a little too many questions, but i just want to know.

[Anonymous]

Ok, since we're talking about horns here...
how exactly does horn work? What happens when an engineer presses that button? And whats the difference between number of chimes(How are those horns different?) I think thats a little too many questions, but i just want to know.

[brilondon]

Next thing you will know is that the trains will just have special electronic signals given out by rail crossings that will auto-matically blow the horn for the crossing.

[brilondon]

Next thing you will know is that the trains will just have special electronic signals given out by rail crossings that will auto-matically blow the horn for the crossing.

[Anonymous]

As crazy as that sounds, up near my grandparents house in Ames, IA, they have considered doing just that! There is about 5-6 crossings in a 1/2 to a one mile stretch. The UP was talking about hooking up sensors triggered by the locomotive to automatically blow for all of the crossings, thus giving the engineers a break through town. I don't know if they have installed those or left them on the drawing board. But I know that lately when trains go through, it sounds just like any other crossing. I thought the same as you did at first, but then it started to make some sense. It allows the train to fly through without blowing for any crossings. I know that it sucks, but it would not suprise me to see this happen.

[Anonymous]

As crazy as that sounds, up near my grandparents house in Ames, IA, they have considered doing just that! There is about 5-6 crossings in a 1/2 to a one mile stretch. The UP was talking about hooking up sensors triggered by the locomotive to automatically blow for all of the crossings, thus giving the engineers a break through town. I don't know if they have installed those or left them on the drawing board. But I know that lately when trains go through, it sounds just like any other crossing. I thought the same as you did at first, but then it started to make some sense. It allows the train to fly through without blowing for any crossings. I know that it sucks, but it would not suprise me to see this happen.

[kenneo]

The FRA wants it bad -- horns on the crossbuck. There are certain advantages that I think we all can relate to in a positive way. Wabash1 says if he is awake, so will you be. And he will keep himself and his employer out of legal trouble that way should there be an accident in a whistle zone. There are two advantages to the Crossbuck mounted horns and they are 1) anytime the train is within 1/4 mile (the required whistle zone) that horn will be blowing no matter what speed the train is making. And, if you have cars rolling (runaway) free, you will also get horns. You will have gates, lights and horns all in one. Advantage 2) is for Wabash1's crossing neighbors. The directed sound can be focused so that only those on the highway / road can hear it, not everybody in town. I know, it takes away his fun! (Sorry <grin>). The ramifications it terms of law suites is tremendousand the cost of "horning" all the crossings is probably less that the law suite costs to the railroad.

The short line I worked for had old SP SD-9's and we operated through a beacch resort town at "3AM". You can really play the horn softly with the air valve type horns (old style) nearly as good as a steam whistle. We were pretty good at it. Rarely had a complaint.

[kenneo]

The FRA wants it bad -- horns on the crossbuck. There are certain advantages that I think we all can relate to in a positive way. Wabash1 says if he is awake, so will you be. And he will keep himself and his employer out of legal trouble that way should there be an accident in a whistle zone. There are two advantages to the Crossbuck mounted horns and they are 1) anytime the train is within 1/4 mile (the required whistle zone) that horn will be blowing no matter what speed the train is making. And, if you have cars rolling (runaway) free, you will also get horns. You will have gates, lights and horns all in one. Advantage 2) is for Wabash1's crossing neighbors. The directed sound can be focused so that only those on the highway / road can hear it, not everybody in town. I know, it takes away his fun! (Sorry <grin>). The ramifications it terms of law suites is tremendousand the cost of "horning" all the crossings is probably less that the law suite costs to the railroad.

The short line I worked for had old SP SD-9's and we operated through a beacch resort town at "3AM". You can really play the horn softly with the air valve type horns (old style) nearly as good as a steam whistle. We were pretty good at it. Rarely had a complaint.

[wabash1]

yes and the first time somebody got hit at the crossing with the automatic horn blowing device i would help the person sue the railroad. simple as that the person running the engine should be in control. and if he aint then maybe the fra should run all the trains. with the stupid rules they keep shoving at us and things the carriers keep trying to get by with it is getting unsafe to operate these trains.

[wabash1]

yes and the first time somebody got hit at the crossing with the automatic horn blowing device i would help the person sue the railroad. simple as that the person running the engine should be in control. and if he aint then maybe the fra should run all the trains. with the stupid rules they keep shoving at us and things the carriers keep trying to get by with it is getting unsafe to operate these trains.

[Anonymous]

Screw the auto horn! It is just one more step towards getting rid of a human on the engine!
Ken

[Anonymous]

Screw the auto horn! It is just one more step towards getting rid of a human on the engine!
Ken

[cabforward]

anything that was operated manually and is now automated has the same thing going for it as previous improvements--when it works, it's great; when it breaks, it's hell..

i have read of many crossing signals malfunctioning and have watched them.. crossing gates that close when no trains are around.. bells and lights flash, nothing coming..

to add a horn at the same volume as a loco is not good when it breaks.. i say 'when' not 'if' because it can happen and because it will happen..

gates that close can be by-passed by taking another route.. bells and lights can be ignored by searching the r-o-w.. crossing horns would be different.. they would irritate in a different way than visual signals.. like burglar or car alarms that wont shut off, it would drive people total nuts and cause more ill-will between the r.r. and locals than they would be worth..

about trackside sensors that would sound the horn automatically, also not good.. it takes away from the engineer's responsibility to observe r-o-w conditions and respond to them..

a good idea would be to place trackside sensors that would signal the engineer that the horn should be sounded for a crossing hazard..

loco consoles are much like computers nowadays.. the main screen would display an alert message, perhaps with an audible tone to begin the crossing alert procedure.. this would assist the engineer but not take him out of the loop of responsibility..

r.r. crewmen should never have the excuse of claiming it's not their fault, the computer didn't sound the horn as it should have..

[cabforward]

anything that was operated manually and is now automated has the same thing going for it as previous improvements--when it works, it's great; when it breaks, it's hell..

i have read of many crossing signals malfunctioning and have watched them.. crossing gates that close when no trains are around.. bells and lights flash, nothing coming..

to add a horn at the same volume as a loco is not good when it breaks.. i say 'when' not 'if' because it can happen and because it will happen..

gates that close can be by-passed by taking another route.. bells and lights can be ignored by searching the r-o-w.. crossing horns would be different.. they would irritate in a different way than visual signals.. like burglar or car alarms that wont shut off, it would drive people total nuts and cause more ill-will between the r.r. and locals than they would be worth..

about trackside sensors that would sound the horn automatically, also not good.. it takes away from the engineer's responsibility to observe r-o-w conditions and respond to them..

a good idea would be to place trackside sensors that would signal the engineer that the horn should be sounded for a crossing hazard..

loco consoles are much like computers nowadays.. the main screen would display an alert message, perhaps with an audible tone to begin the crossing alert procedure.. this would assist the engineer but not take him out of the loop of responsibility..

r.r. crewmen should never have the excuse of claiming it's not their fault, the computer didn't sound the horn as it should have..

[Mookie]

This may not apply to what you are saying, but I can't be sure, since I am never sure I understand your postings. But give this a shot. I sit at a 6 track crossing. There is a millwork shed on the right side of the me and 2 sets of tracks curve around behind this building - out of sight of the crossing.

I watched a guy just about buy the farm when he saw the crossing arms down and also saw a freight coming very slowly in from the east. He figured (wrong!) that the arms were down for the incoming slow freight and he had more than enough time to make it across all six tracks before the engine got there. It was the incoming around the building that darn near tore his front end off! I don't know about him, but scared the Frito right out of my mouth!

Mookie

[Mookie]

This may not apply to what you are saying, but I can't be sure, since I am never sure I understand your postings. But give this a shot. I sit at a 6 track crossing. There is a millwork shed on the right side of the me and 2 sets of tracks curve around behind this building - out of sight of the crossing.

I watched a guy just about buy the farm when he saw the crossing arms down and also saw a freight coming very slowly in from the east. He figured (wrong!) that the arms were down for the incoming slow freight and he had more than enough time to make it across all six tracks before the engine got there. It was the incoming around the building that darn near tore his front end off! I don't know about him, but scared the Frito right out of my mouth!

Mookie

[cabforward]

so mookie,

let me get this straight.. a car was at a crossing when the gates were down.. a train approached and the car drove around the gates to cross in front of the train..

what's your question?

that there was a second train from the same or a different direction is not relevant, to me anyway.. the law took affect when the gates were down, period..

i have driven thru r.r. crossings when the bells & lights flashed, after i looked both ways and was satisfied nothing was there.. when encountering a barrier-protected crossing, i would not drive around the barrier, regardless of a train/no train situation.. i would turn around and find another way across..

in the situation you describe, what could i say except, the jackass is risking his life, the r.r crews' lives.. plus the welfare of those he calls his loved ones.. anyone who violates barrier-protected crossings can't have much concern for their loved ones or themselves..

of course, anyone could say the same thing about drivers who ignore crossings where bells & lights flash, and they would be right, but having at least checked the r-o-w for trains, i am taking some action for all concerned..

myself, i would rather wait and watch the train go by, than drive on and wonder what loco was pulling the load and the cars it pulled..

[cabforward]

so mookie,

let me get this straight.. a car was at a crossing when the gates were down.. a train approached and the car drove around the gates to cross in front of the train..

what's your question?

that there was a second train from the same or a different direction is not relevant, to me anyway.. the law took affect when the gates were down, period..

i have driven thru r.r. crossings when the bells & lights flashed, after i looked both ways and was satisfied nothing was there.. when encountering a barrier-protected crossing, i would not drive around the barrier, regardless of a train/no train situation.. i would turn around and find another way across..

in the situation you describe, what could i say except, the jackass is risking his life, the r.r crews' lives.. plus the welfare of those he calls his loved ones.. anyone who violates barrier-protected crossings can't have much concern for their loved ones or themselves..

of course, anyone could say the same thing about drivers who ignore crossings where bells & lights flash, and they would be right, but having at least checked the r-o-w for trains, i am taking some action for all concerned..

myself, i would rather wait and watch the train go by, than drive on and wonder what loco was pulling the load and the cars it pulled..

[Anonymous]

Push buttons are normally used only on locos with 'desktop' control stands. However, most locos with AAR stands have the adjustable horn lever, all of NS's locos have the AAR stand, and therefore lever control for the horn. EMD will be using the AAR stand on all new locos, so the 'push button' might just go away for the time being.

[Anonymous]

Push buttons are normally used only on locos with 'desktop' control stands. However, most locos with AAR stands have the adjustable horn lever, all of NS's locos have the AAR stand, and therefore lever control for the horn. EMD will be using the AAR stand on all new locos, so the 'push button' might just go away for the time being.

[mudchicken]

UPRR-MDC, cab, iron, wabash & kenneo:

WHOA!

What FRA wants is an "audibly directed" horn for areas where the politicians are demanding no whistle ordinances (NWO) to keep their narrow minded NIMBY and BANANA constituencies happy. FRA wants audible warnings up where they are not allowed by local ordinance now. It is NOT a work rules issue, this is a chickenfight with the same morons that allow new home construction near airport runways and then complain about airplane noise. The FRA put out a edict that no-whistle zones were verboten (as in a bozo no-no) and the politicos came out of the woodwork from every conceivable direction. Being that politicians can't possibly be responsible for the morons at the crossings who can't think (but claimed to have voted for them?), just BAN no-whistle ordinances and make anyone who demands a NWO sign in advance that they are liable for anything and everything when something goes wrong.....

I've worked a few too-many crossing accidents (at gated crossings no less!)in NWO's where the local holier-than-thou's still think the railroad should have provided more warning than they did (?)!

-mudchicken

[mudchicken]

UPRR-MDC, cab, iron, wabash & kenneo:

WHOA!

What FRA wants is an "audibly directed" horn for areas where the politicians are demanding no whistle ordinances (NWO) to keep their narrow minded NIMBY and BANANA constituencies happy. FRA wants audible warnings up where they are not allowed by local ordinance now. It is NOT a work rules issue, this is a chickenfight with the same morons that allow new home construction near airport runways and then complain about airplane noise. The FRA put out a edict that no-whistle zones were verboten (as in a bozo no-no) and the politicos came out of the woodwork from every conceivable direction. Being that politicians can't possibly be responsible for the morons at the crossings who can't think (but claimed to have voted for them?), just BAN no-whistle ordinances and make anyone who demands a NWO sign in advance that they are liable for anything and everything when something goes wrong.....

I've worked a few too-many crossing accidents (at gated crossings no less!)in NWO's where the local holier-than-thou's still think the railroad should have provided more warning than they did (?)!

-mudchicken