bad product choice at walmart,someone dropped the ball!

[Poppa_Zit]

 

Is Walmart and the other big box stores part of the problem?

 

Sure, but so are the thousand of other employers who do not provide health insurance.

Couple thoughts.

First, I think we've more than identified the problem. Let's look at possible solutions, or why a solution is so difficult.

Let me say I'm not an elitist, and I don't sneer or look down at anyone who works at Wal Mart. While some people depend on their Wal Mart job as fulltime employment, a percentage of WM employees are part-time students and seniors. So we're not talking about 100 percent of the Wal Mart workforce here.  

1) What Wal Mart and any others are doing is not illegal. Unethical, yes, but not illegal. Why does the system allow them to continue to get away with it?

2) Why is health insurance so expensive in the first place? Should we be asking an attorney for the answer?

3) Why has the government failed in providing affordable health care for everyone, if indeed it is the government's responsibility at all?

4) The nation will always have a workforce of "working poor," no matter how many dollars and government programs we throw at it.

5) If we raise the minimum wage, businesses will simply lay off employees and make the remaining employees do more work to make up the difference.

6) And the statement for which I'll probably take the most pipe: No one HAS to work for Wal Mart. If you need a job with benefits, then don't work for Wal Mart.

For most people in this country, taxpayers make a school system available for free so anyone can learn a skill -- any skill -- that would make them more valuable to an employer. If you can do nothing more than put boxes on shelves, either the system has failed you or you've failed yourself.

"But if they didn't work for Wal Mart, they'd be unemployed," someone will say. "And as taxpayers we'll still be covering their healthcare."

So which is better? Paying only for their healthcare and having them be fractionally productive by working at Wal Mart, or putting them on full unemployment AND welfare as well as paying for their healthcare?

Or is there another workable solution?    

[Anonymous]

, or the store sells cheap cookware, you might want to think about this…at least they work, and pay into the system, when they could easily get a ride on the welfare train and live on your dime.

 

Gee Ed, so you are trying to say I am OBLIGATED to buy Walmarts crappy cookware BECAUSE IF I DON'T, their employees might become disadvantaged?


Sorry old man, ain't a gonna happen.

If anything, I wish consumers were better informed of the "big picture" costs incurred as the by product of making those (seeming) walmart bargains available to them.

[edblysard]

No, Anti, your not obligated to do a thing...

Dont know where you got that, other than you are attempting to pick an argument.

Point is they do offer jobs.

No insurance in most cases, and low wages, but employement at least for the "marginal" citizen who other wise would be a total drain on the system.

Without the Walmarts, KMarts and such, these people would have little choice but to survive off of the welfare system.

You indicated that I was a social worker, and some how responsible for sending people to Walmart to shop...not true on either count.

I am glad they offer jobs, cruddy jobs, but jobs none the less.

The alternative is pretty expensive to you and I, the taxpayer.

The buy American routine is a myth, you really cant do that.

Half of your Chevy, Dodge or Ford car is made in Mexico or Canada...the tires come from Japan...your home air conditioning unit is made in Mexico, even though it says TRANE USA on the outside...as is your GE icebox and range...

Even your toilet paper is, for the most part, imported.

The problem is America has gotten away from being an industrial and agricultural based nation, and becomeing a nation of service providers and service consumers…we don’t really build things here anymore.

Shoot, even Amana, the first company to offer home microwave ovens, gave it up…

I would bet that over half, if not all of the components in the computer that you are reading this on are made anywhere but in the US.

 

[Poppa_Zit]

Well in my line of work, we have a saying....

"Alcohol and stupid people are the main reasons I have job security" 

Union, non union, it doesn't matter, so long as those two ingredients are present in society (especially when they mix)  there will ALWAYS be work for me...

Then you must be happier than a pig in slop when the Bears play.

[SchemerBob]

If you do think these cars are bad (personally I think there is nothing wrong with them), now we're cutting Tom & Jerry cartoons because they show Tom smoking.

Oh, PLEEEASE.

Everybody is too conservative to sell the Boxcars and Auto Carriers with the graffitti of nude women. It is just nude women represented by the graffitti. Why not let us have more exciting grafitti to shock visitors to the layouts. We need more striking visuals on the model railroad, or it will just be too boring for people who do not get railroading.

Andrew

That's not what I meant and you know it.

[Andrew Falconer]

Actually, The Tom & Jerry Show and soft porn nudes have one thing in common shocking behavior that has unrealistic consequences.

Graffitti Cars let everyone know that you can paint a car and get away with it, if you are in the right place at the right time. The police will not catch you, unless somebody complains about your tresspassing and vandalisim.

Andrew

[SchemerBob]

Actually, The Tom & Jerry Show and soft porn nudes have one thing in common shocking behavior that has unrealistic consequences.

Graffitti Cars let everyone know that you can paint a car and get away with it, if you are in the right place at the right time. The police will not catch you, unless somebody complains about your tresspassing and vandalisim.

Andrew

WHAT? ?

For pete's sake, I don't know where you get that. I have just about every original Tom & Jerry show on tape and there is nothing wrong with them. The part they are cutting out shows Tom smoking. At first you wouldn't want that on a cartoon, because, after all, it is sort of "promoting" something that is bad. But you also have to look at it this way: the Tom & Jerry cartoons were produced from the early 40s to the end of the 60s. That's just the way people were back then. Most people did not even consider smoking a bad thing. If you did think that was bad, then just don't smoke, but realize that people did that back then.

These graffiti freight cars are the exact same thing. At first you wouldn't want that on a freight car, because, after all, it is sort of "promoting" something that is bad. But you also have to look at it this way: these cars are based on real freight cars you see on the freight trains today. THAT'S JUST REAL LIFE. Some people don't even think graffiti is wrong (I'm not one of those people). If you do think it's bad, then just don't spray paint on freight cars, but realize that it does happen and it's just the way things are. The only reason I purchased my Enamelized freight cars was that they looked cool because they look realistic. I would never think of doing that in real life, because it's just not right. Sometimes in life, you just have to use some common sense.

[zgardner18]

Funny you should bring this up, but I stopped in last night on the way home from work to check on the new Malibu International 1:87 Cars and trucks when I looked to the end of the aisle and notice a boxcar.  As I walked up to it, I too had mixed fealings and wondered who the heck would buy such a thing.  What really amazed me was that there was only one left.  The one I saw was a NYC Boxcar.  Heck, maybe we can look on the bright side and only hope that they young troubled teenager who likes taging and what not, will buy these cars and fall in love with Model Railroading.  Then gain a great appreciation and respect for railroad property.  Well, it's far fetched but you never know. 

[SchemerBob]

Funny you should bring this up, but I stopped in last night on the way home from work to check on the new Malibu International 1:87 Cars and trucks when I looked to the end of the aisle and notice a boxcar.  As I walked up to it, I too had mixed fealings and wondered who the heck would buy such a thing.  What really amazed me was that there was only one left.  The one I saw was a NYC Boxcar.  Heck, maybe we can look on the bright side and only hope that they young troubled teenager who likes taging and what not, will buy these cars and fall in love with Model Railroading.  Then gain a great appreciation and respect for railroad property.  Well, it's far fetched but you never know. 

A NYC boxcar? Wow, I didn't see that one!

[chad thomas]

Well I wish they would produce more pre graffitied cars so I don't have to do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

If you let the colors on a model influence your criminal activities you got real issues and can't blame the model. Blame the parents, blame the environment, blame the influence of the people they surround themselves with, but don't blame the model. That's just plain lame.

[Murphy Siding]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

[chad thomas]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

Not sure what you mean. I model the 90s and don't have any stock cars. My graffitied cars are mostly ACF covered hoppers with a few boxcars done too. I mostly just put subtle decals on them but I have hand painted a couple with big graffiti too. All my other stuff is graffiti free but I am thinking of doing a couple autoracks.

[Murphy Siding]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

Not sure what you mean. I model the 90s and don't have any stock cars. My graffitied cars are mostly ACF covered hoppers with a few boxcars done too. I mostly just put subtle decals on them but I have hand painted a couple with big graffiti too. All my other stuff is graffiti free but I am thinking of doing a couple autoracks.

     I wondered if you covered them with realistic looking *cow poo*?

[chad thomas]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

Not sure what you mean. I model the 90s and don't have any stock cars. My graffitied cars are mostly ACF covered hoppers with a few boxcars done too. I mostly just put subtle decals on them but I have hand painted a couple with big graffiti too. All my other stuff is graffiti free but I am thinking of doing a couple autoracks.

     I wondered if you covered them with realistic looking *cow poo*?

That's where I draw the line.

[Murphy Siding]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

Not sure what you mean. I model the 90s and don't have any stock cars. My graffitied cars are mostly ACF covered hoppers with a few boxcars done too. I mostly just put subtle decals on them but I have hand painted a couple with big graffiti too. All my other stuff is graffiti free but I am thinking of doing a couple autoracks.

     I wondered if you covered them with realistic looking *cow poo*?

That's where I draw the line.

     So you're just holding out until Walmart comes out with realistic looking stock car?

[chad thomas]

I am not holding my breath. Is this wallmart car an actual scale model (HO,O,ect)? Or just a toy.

[Murphy Siding]

I am not holding my breath. Is this wallmart car an actual scale model (HO,O,ect)? Or just a toy.

     Picky! Picky!  Next you'll want it decorated with real cow poo!

[One Track Mind]

Chad - they are toys. If anything they are TT scale.

[chad thomas]

Chad - they are toys. If anything they are TT scale.

Oh OK, Then I will not be buying any...Back to decaling...

[SchemerBob]

Chad - they are toys. If anything they are TT scale.

Oh OK, Then I will not be buying any...Back to decaling...

Unfortunately, yes. These trains won't mean very much to you unless you hopped aboard in 2001, when the series first came out. That's when I got into them, so today I have quite a bit of this stuff (and that was before they painted graffiti on them). These trains can be considered models...they are the only toy I have seen that gets so close to being accurate. There are a few slight mess-ups, but if you're not looking at it closely, you'll be suprised at how real they look! I hope Wal-Mart puts out sets again this Christmas because they give you much more than you really need to get started (including TONS of track) for only 10 bucks; a real bargain considering the actual quality of these things.

One thing I've noticed...these trains are only painted in the paint schemes of fallen flag railroads (with the exceptions of the Alaska and CSX), probably so they don't have to get permission. Still, I like them a lot.

[Andrew Falconer]

On the Simpsons they have a parody of the Tom and Jerry Show called The Itchy and Scratchy Show. Check it out, there they show the gore that would have happened if Tom and Jerry did not recover from their twisted chases.

Andrew

[BNSF_GP60M]

At first this started about the graffitied freight cars. Then it to into a Wal-Mart bashing for what 3 pages! Then we started to go back to the cars. Now I like when these cars were released because I bought the earlier ones and were happy about it. Then they disappeared. Now here in Hanford we don't have any place to buy trains except maybe during Christmas at Walmart. With current gas prices I can't go to Fresno or Visalia to buy them like I would want to.

Also about Walmart killing downtowns, show me a place where I can buy things after 5 pm?

[ericsp]

At first this started about the graffitied freight cars. Then it to into a Wal-Mart bashing for what 3 pages! Then we started to go back to the cars. Now I like when these cars were released because I bought the earlier ones and were happy about it. Then they disappeared. Now here in Hanford we don't have any place to buy trains except maybe during Christmas at Walmart. With current gas prices I can't go to Fresno or Visalia to buy them like I would want to.

Also about Walmart killing downtowns, show me a place where I can buy things after 5 pm?

None of the hobby shops in the San Joaquin Valley are worth driving to from out of town, even if gasoline was $1.00/gallon. There used to be some good ones, but they all closed, or downsized their train departments.

[Train Guy 3]

Just another company using the bad to promote a sale. At walmart you can even pick up the spray paint to go with your new "art work" toy. I was glad when I saw trains back in a stores like Walmart a few years back and I glad that they are still expanding the line but they should have dropped this idea at the drawing board. However it seems the graffiti is part of the everyday real world. Even model railroaders I know make graffiti model for their layouts despite the fact that they hate graffiti on trains. I guess it's just whatever floats your boat..........

[Anonymous]

I find all the anger over grafitti pretty funny, coming from an industry that allows locos to become so dirty that it's hard to tell what railroad it belongs to (A Toledo area CSX loco a few years ago), cars that are so rusty they appear to be sprayed with some sort of orange paint (Hundreds of cars), and cars unpainted for so long that the NYC, PC, NW, etc logos are still visible, through the "new" paint, or because the peeling paint, probably badly applied, is coming off, and the old paint is showing through. Last week I saw the first plainly visible NYC logo on a boxcar I have seen in a while, but I haven't watched as many trains over the last year as I normally do. I did see a couple of PC boxcars last month.

Then there are the piles of rotted ties lying around, old rusty rail, etc, boarded up towers, and crossings that are rough as hell, etc.

And they are actually worried about grafitti? Because it looks bad? Sure, some or even most of it does, but some of it shows undeniable talent. If the railroads had perfect paint, stuff was clean, and the right of way was spotless, I could see them crying about grafitti. But since they don't, the whining about grafitti is pointless, and kind of a joke. I'd rather see a hopper with "BITE ME" go by than one of the endless rusted hulks I normally see.

[wallyworld]

I think these toys are a bad idea. Put the shoe on the other foot. We are talking about private property. If I had artistic leanings and decided to decorate your automobile at 3 am with spray painted improvements like "Bite Me" without your permission, what sort of rationalization could I offer you that would smooth over the situation? I suspect not much.
I don't think that an indirect sanctioning of vandalism by a retailer is warranted or cute.

[Anonymous]

Well, it's not exactly the same thing, but if my car was as rusty and as pitiful looking as some of the cars I see everyday, it wouldn't bother me all that much. I would kind of think it was funny actually. I saw an older hopper this morning at the local grain elevator what was nearly 100% rusted or rust stained, the only parts that weren't were the newly applied number and the patch of undecipherable blue and black grafitti on it.

There are toys of all kinds that simulate things you might not like, but it's not all that big of a deal, IMO. There are cars that are replicas of "street racers",  all kinds of weaponry,  games that are really violent, etc, some of which you may disagree with. So don't buy them. As far as real grafitti goes, it's a non issue, it's been around far longer than you or I have been alive, and will be around long after we are gone.

[StillGrande]

NYC, PC, NW, etc logos are still visible, through the "new" paint,  Last week I saw the first plainly visible NYC logo on a boxcar I have seen in a while, but I haven't watched as many trains over the last year as I normally do. I did see a couple of PC boxcars last month.

I can show you a whole yard full of NYC painted stuff.  Benning Yard (CSX - Washington DC) holds coal hoppers (empty and full) there for area plants.  CSX and NS used the old reporting marks to divvy up Conrail. 

There is a difference between wanting to have a clean car and being able to protect thousands of pieces of rolling stock, plus locomotives.  Debris may also be another reason why they prefer the public stay off the ROW and out of the yards.  Not the right image (Of course, brainless wonders getting hit by trains doesn't help either!).  I don't see much rust going by around here.  Maybe one in 30.  Actually, I have been amazed at the lack of grafitti on cars I would expect to see it on in the past. 

[SchemerBob]

I can't believe this thread started up again. Well, the unit trains that go through here (coal and intermodal) are usually spotless. Perhaps once in a while 2 or three cars with graffiti on them. It's the mixed trains where you see all of the graffiti. Whether it's rust, or graffiti, in my opinion this just shows how the railroads keep using things year after year. When we wreck a car, we just want to sell it and buy a new spotless one, right? When the railroads wreck a car, they may dispose of it (if it's beyond repair), or they fix it and it travels down the rails for a couple more decades. Locomotives are still on the rails that are more than 30 years old (some even older than that!). Some freight cars are still running which were built in the 50s (just look at the month and date next to the BLT abbriviations). I don't think many people today would keep an auto for that long.

[Anonymous]

Im late coming to this little party but I gotta tell ya I dont have a problem with graffitti, not on my railroad.

You aint going to hear me sound off to the store just because there happens to be a decal with graffitti or a car with it. I see it as buyer's choice.

No graffitti no problem. But... I dont mind if someone else thought they can have it on thier railroad. The kind I think of is the small chalk written into the boxcar like "Hobo Loves Jane" or something of that nature kindergarden style, not the really fancy spray paints that I see as gang related in some cities around the USA.

But I would say something to the Walmart Boss because this would promote to the masses who are not aware of the danger of trains.

The railroads can try to keep the cars rolling, kinda hard to spray paint something that is loaded and moving.

BTW what does that graffitti say on that yellow car anyway? Looks like some kind of pink blob to my eyes. Yuck!