blue streak 1 Never observed one on either a N&W unit or a SOU RR unit. Nor the conbined NS. Anyone see different ? What about CR and predecessors and if so any to NS or CSX ?
Never observed one on either a N&W unit or a SOU RR unit. Nor the conbined NS. Anyone see different ? What about CR and predecessors and if so any to NS or CSX ?
Strobe lights were 'mandated' in 'Regulations' for visibility enhancements, IIRC in the 1990's (?). [ This was done before the mandated addition of the Triangular Ditch Light configuration.] AMTRAK had them installed on all their road power, at one time. SLSF RR was another line with rooftop strobes on their road freight power units. I think there were initially three strobe lights, one in the top center(forward?) on the cab, and one on each side of the cab roof. I seem to recall that there was a lot of discussion about the 'pulses' and intensity of the strobes on the locomotive crews,and their attention to watching out of the locomotives(?).
The flashing strobes got pretty obnoxious for the Crews of AMTRAK trains, and others in the area of the AMTRAK locomotives.
In this current time of history. about the only mandated flashing lights are on the cabs of radio controled locomotives .
Here is a linked site that has a lot of info on railroads, and their use of strobe lights, before the era of Ditch Lights.
See @ http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/strobe.htm
Union Pacific had some kind of cab roof flashers on their E units. They were neat to watch from the dome cars riding across Kansas in the late 60's. I think they also used them on freight units.
Rumor has it that they were used on yard engines so the yardmasters could see where their crews were hiding out.
One must remember that if it's on the loco, it has to work. Beacons and "Mars" lights are mechanical, and they break. One (or more) less thing to maintain.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
49CFR229.133....with the advent of mandatory ditch lights, the older beacons went away starting in 1994
http://ccs.dogpile.com/ClickHandler.ashx?encp=ld%3d20170405%26app%3d1%26c%3dinfo.dogpl%26s%3dDogpile%26rc%3dinfo.dogpl%26dc%3d%26euip%3d69.198.42.10%26pvaid%3d40d706f2b81b45169f945c74649a7a27%26dt%3dDesktop%26sid%3d1830193568.2550341100042.1491414869%26vid%3d1830193568.2550341100042.1397242036.1771%26fcoi%3d417%26fcop%3dtopnav%26fct.uid%3d5c3b11557d5b43fdbe6bed7a1309d73e%26fpid%3d27%26en%3d0WEFU%252fZhSoTF%252fFm%252bpLeuVl4UPZzISdzyg%252baGYj7N8ISb7M1aTnzzgA%253d%253d%26ru%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.fra.dot.gov%252fElib%252fDocument%252f2098%26coi%3d1494%26npp%3d1%26p%3d0%26pp%3d0%26mid%3d9%26ep%3d1%26du%3dwww.fra.dot.gov%252fElib%252fDocument%252f2098%26hash%3dC54663097AA123AA27CC64B08089F687&ap=2&cop=main-title
(The old backshop doors at La Junta had a reputation for knocking off old SP tunnel motor yellow beacons with frightening regularity during inspections....Then we stole/relocated the TP&W's paint shop building from Pekin/E Peoria...)
Does anybody know when the BN introduced them and then withdrew them?
Here is yet another example on Metra F-40 number 604, same purpose but this one flashes in a stroble like manner.
Here is a really good picture of a rotating beacon on top of an ex-C&NW/Metra F7 beign rebuilt at IRM.
The first rotating beacon I encountered was on a GTW locomotive. It was red, but I think they went to yellow later. It sure was strange looking at the path of this light (around and around!) from the cab!
CNW adopted the flashing lights and rotating beacons in the 1970s and put them on everything imaginable, at least in the City. When they'd bring a bunch of Suburban Fs to Proviso for weekend freight use, you could see that string of yellow anywhere in the yard.
Chessie got some GP40-2s from EMD with a pair of strobe lights on the roof. They didn't last long.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Bucyrus wrote: In this day and age, it would seem that any sort of animated lighting display could be accomplished with a solid-state system. There must be many patents for ideas that would accomplish the display of Mars lights without the mechanism, yet I have seen no adoption of such technology.
In this day and age, it would seem that any sort of animated lighting display could be accomplished with a solid-state system. There must be many patents for ideas that would accomplish the display of Mars lights without the mechanism, yet I have seen no adoption of such technology.
ICG was a big user of Mars-type lights. IIRC, the lights had two bulbs, one white (clear) for use when running down the road, and one red, for emergency braking, I believe.
In the mid-'70s they began to replace the mechanical lights with a three light cluster - two clear, one red. The white lights flashed alternately, providing the attention-getting effect. I have no idea who made them, and have no pictures of my own, either.
Had not ditchlights become the law of the land it might have been interesting to see how LED lights, now in ever increasing use by emergency vehicles, might have played in railroading.
For beacons to provide a meaningful grade crossing warning, it seems like they would have to put out a lot more light than they do. If they put out that much light and ran full time, they would drive everybody crazy. So, such a high output beacon would need to be set up to only run when approaching grade crossings. Has any road ever done that?
Such a bright light would turn out a lot of heat, too, which would melt the (usually) plastic domes. There is a limit to the candlepower a given sized lamp can turn out without requiring more trouble than it's worth. Short of using lasers, I'm not sure you could improve much on the beacons that were used.
White light is the best, and despite the effectiveness (and romance, if you will) of the oscillating lights, methinks that ditch lights, especially flashing, are a great solution.
Murphy Siding wrote: Maybe it's one of those things you don't notice untill you look for them? Today, I studied the 2 local BNSF switchers in town. They both have the lights, just not turned on.
Yeah. Maybe they WERE on and you didn't know it.
I say this half-joking because on some of the older Metra trains the lenses are so discolored/scratched, the lights really don't "emit" -- they do little more than light up the inside of the lens, especially on the older FP-40 series.
You could sit in the Eola yard at the west end (fairly dark at night) and watch 10 Metra dinkys go by and NEVER notice the yellow beacons unless you were looking for them. Even the new MP-36s have them.
A few years ago I bought a working Mars 888 (from a retired American LaFrance open-cab 65-foot ladder truck I drove more than a few times) with the idea that someday in my train room on one wall I'd build the front end of a steam locomotive protruding two feet or so and wire the 888 in as part of the steambox lighting.
I also remember as a kid the Burlington Zephyrs zipping through the western suburbs along the Racetrack at night, with their bright, sky-penetrating head-end Mars lights sweeping the tracks ahead. It was an awesome, breathless sight for a kid. I also like that Metra trains still have a similar version. Very attention-getting.
On some Mars lights, the only thing that oscillated was the reflector itself, not the bulb. I seem to remember some of those on Rock Island and Illinois Central long-distance passenger trains.
Thank you all for the information on beacons. I had the impression that beacons were almost universally used, but apparently that is not the case. I can see how they could become irritating to work around at night as well as being useful in sighting a locomotive moving in a yard at night. I know how much concern the industry has for grade crossing safety, and was wondering if the beacons were intended to take on the function of Mars lights. If so, it would seem that the beacons would have far less warning impact than Mars lights, but I understand that the advantage of Mars lights was offset by their high maintenance cost.
Even the mechanically rotating beacons are mechanically simpler than the mechanics of Mars lights. In this day and age, it would seem that any sort of animated lighting display could be accomplished with a solid-state system. There must be many patents for ideas that would accomplish the display of Mars lights without the mechanism, yet I have seen no adoption of such technology.
Some of those beacons are worth a small fortune to collectors. Federal #372 Commander beacons typically sell for a few hundred dollars each on eBay. They have a round dome, two sealed beams, and a cast aluminum base with vertical fins. Here's a photo:
http://www.zjstech.net/~library/4249/FederalCommander.jpg
Mark
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding wrote: Is this a regional thing? I don't know that I've ever seen one?
Murphy, Like Nick, I haven't seen one in a long time other then RCL units.
Here is one on an SP tunnel motor
And a really dirty one on a GP60
And here is one on our local RCL unit here in San Diego
Other, then the low intensity strobes on our Remote Control Locomotives, I haven't seen a beacon or strobe in years. I belive they are required on RCLs
They were never that popular here in the East to begin with. I only remember them on Amtrak and SEPTA units. Amtrak has removed most of it's strobes, and SEPTA's only flash near stations.I also remember them dissappearing from BN and Santa Fe units soon after ditch lights were FRA mandated.
Personally, I find them to be visially distracting. And the bright ones, destroy my night vision. I have no problem locating my locomotives by either sound, or headlights alone.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
wjstix wrote:I suppose it depends on the railroad and it's situation. I grew up along a shortline that ran trains at slow speed thru country and small town grade crossing without flashers, and used Hancock air whistles which weren't very loud compared to diesel air horns. Their engines had rotating yellow beacons on them. It was just another safety device - and it really looked neat, I wonder if we'll ever find a way to accurately model them in HO??
I have several HO locomotives with flashing beacons. I used small LEDs hooked up to simple 555 timer circuts. Cost mabee $7 a peice for the parts.
The ones on the SP units around here sometimes got covered with so much grime they didn't realy make a difference if they had them. Having so many flashing yellow lights get confusing. So many things have them they don't stand out (is that a train or just a forklift down the way?)from one another, like all the backup beepers at a construction site. You have to watch out just as much as you did before everything had them. Having to work around the flashing strobes at night gets bad real quick.
Quite plainly, the various beacons are a railroad's attempt to stave off accidents. Vermont RR used red Beacon Rays at one time, if I recall what I saw on a magazine cover correctly.
A number of railroads chose oscillating ("Mars") lights for the same purpose. There are folks who feel that the oscillating lights (which took several forms) are actually more effective than today's ditch lights. But, once again, they have to be maintained. The Mars-type lights usually had two motors and a bunch of gears and linkages, all potential points of failure.
And some railroads just used the headlight. I believe there was a time when even that wasn't the case. Headlights, after all, are for lighting up the track ahead of you at night...
Someone else can throw the date in, but FRA finally decided to mandate ditch lights, which were in use by some railroads (chiefly Canadian). IIRC, the logic is to create a standard "signal," which is that triangle of light formed by the headlight and the ditch lights. Flashing ditch lights are used in various circumstances (ie, approaching grade crossings) by different railroads. If you look down the tracks and see that triangle, there is not question about it being "just a reflection" (or the light at the end of the tunnel).
I have no idea if any studies have been done over time to gauge the effectiveness of the various warning lights, although I believe that it's been shown that the ditch lights are having a positive effect.
One danger with rotating and other flashing lights is that there are periods when they are "off" to the viewer. That's why any California emergency vehicle you see has a steady burning red light facing the front of the vehicle (sometimes, that's the only red light - especially if you see an old CHP cruiser in a movie). It was found (via a lawsuit, of course) that there were times when a motorist did not see any illuminated warning lights...
My understanding is that the beacons were more for making the locomotive more visible from the side.
I couldn't stand the dumb things. I realize how they are useful for the ground crew in situations like Ed describes, but at night, when switching in a yard or spotting an industry, when I was surrounded by freight cars or the sides of a building, the constant flashing would cause me to become very disoriented. It made it difficult to follow the ground and keep track of distance travelled.
In addition, the frickin thing was so bright, it would cause me to lose my night vision, making it difficult to see things that were not directly illuminated, such as ground personel. And the constant strobing was very tiresom on the eyes, having to constantly adjust between the brightness of the strobe and the darkness everywhere else.
Poppa_Zit wrote:The BN used them, but they didn't rotate. There were four yellow bulbs inside the housing, and the lights lit in sequence -- "chasing" each other around in a circle was the effect. I thought they looked kinda cheapo, but I supposed they were easier to maintain with no moving parts. Metra locomotives trains still use the same style today.
The BN used them, but they didn't rotate. There were four yellow bulbs inside the housing, and the lights lit in sequence -- "chasing" each other around in a circle was the effect. I thought they looked kinda cheapo, but I supposed they were easier to maintain with no moving parts.
Metra locomotives trains still use the same style today.
All 25 of our MK1500Ds have a Zeon strobe on the cab roof.
Bright white, it is visible for miles in flat terrain.
Because in yard work, the headlights are on dim, and the ditch lights are off most of the time, the ground crews have a hard time seeing exactly where a locomotive is.
Two tracks over, with all the noise in a yard, you can lose one at night very easily.
But the strobe reflects off of the cars, even when it is crowded, so you know you are near a locomotive.
It is not so much for that locomotives crew, who generally know where their motor is, but to alert and warn other crews of the presence of a locomotive.
With an MU’ed unit, the occupied unit has the strobe on, the trailing unit’s is off, easy way to know which unit is leading.
Not a FRA requirement, but, as CSXengineer pointed out, if they are there, they have to work, because they are a safety appliance.
At night, from the tower, a quick glance will tell you where every single motor in the yard is at.
Ours are on 24 hours a day, the thinking is the strobe, which is quite visible in daylight, is one more added feature to warn people at crossings, and to let crews know a motor is occupied.
The CEFX/UP lease fleet of the “New” GP15 and GP20 also have the strobe.
23 17 46 11
Poppa_Zit wrote: The BN used them, but they didn't rotate. There were four yellow bulbs inside the housing, and the lights lit in sequence -- "chasing" each other around in a circle was the effect. I thought they looked kinda cheapo, but I supposed they were easier to maintain with no moving parts. Metra locomotives trains still use the same style today.
The Frisco was a big user of this type of beacon light on locomotives[ mounted on top of the cab roof to the front side]. I think that the frisco was 100% on the locomotive fleet.
Amtrak originally bought their new loco's with a pair of harsh white light strobes mounted onto the front of the cabr roofs. They were extremely eye catching, particularly at night they were exceptionally visible, but apparently in use after a period of time, they caused a hypnotising effect in the engine crews who were exposed to that constant cycle of the strobe lights. I know they worked to change the frequency of the flashing and also the brightness, to mitigate the health effects on engine crews.
I think this was all done in an effort to neutralize grade crossing accidents. I don't recall seeing these yellow flashers on anything but mainly the Frisco, the Mop, and Cotton Belt, and IC didn't use them on road power that I recall.
wjstix wrote: I grew up along a shortline that ran trains at slow speed thru country and small town grade crossing without flashers, and used Hancock air whistles which weren't very loud compared to diesel air horns.
That sounds like the MN&S railroad.
csxengineer98 wrote:roof top beacons where never FRA requited. but if a unit is equiped with one..it has to work or the engin is a shop due to a defective safty device. they where and are put on as a warning/attention getting device to draw someones attention to the fact that there is a train comeing. now csx never used them on the cab roofs for a warning device untill they started to use RCLs in yard switching oppoperations..now RCLs have 2 yellow strob beacons on the cab roofs of the enigns.. and just to awnser another beacon question about csx engins if your thinking about it...units that are equpiped with the K9 auxilory power unit have a strob light on the long hood...it only comes when there is a malfuction with the K9 unit to aleart the engineer there is a problem with it so he/she can go back and reset it if it can be reset to normal opporation... csx engineer
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