Crew Change Points

[Anonymous]

I was examining the UP-Subdivisions map and noticed the crew change positions.Go to that map and look and see what subdivisions "radiate" outward from a particular city and trace each one to the next crew change point which seperate each division.
So if you work in UP train service do you work on "one, some, or all" of the sub-divisions which radiate outward from that city?
Based on the answer to the above, does that mean you can live anywhere you want in the area as long as you can drive to a crew change point for your subdivision as long as you can get to the "crew change point" within the time frame of the call?
What I am wondering is, does the city you attend a UP hiring session in, indicate where you will be working, i.e. the sub-divisions that radiate out from that city?

[Anonymous]

I was examining the UP-Subdivisions map and noticed the crew change positions.Go to that map and look and see what subdivisions "radiate" outward from a particular city and trace each one to the next crew change point which seperate each division.
So if you work in UP train service do you work on "one, some, or all" of the sub-divisions which radiate outward from that city?
Based on the answer to the above, does that mean you can live anywhere you want in the area as long as you can drive to a crew change point for your subdivision as long as you can get to the "crew change point" within the time frame of the call?
What I am wondering is, does the city you attend a UP hiring session in, indicate where you will be working, i.e. the sub-divisions that radiate out from that city?

[wabash1]

just because it is a crew change point dont means it is a home terminal. in otherwords that might be the hub for all districts but it is a away from home site for all. and you are in a motel at that site or crew change point. in most cases where your home terminal is you should live within a 1hr 30 min call time and trust me sometimes this is not enough, and the caller might give you a short call. if you go to a hiring session you should plan on living as close to the home terminal as you can,

[wabash1]

just because it is a crew change point dont means it is a home terminal. in otherwords that might be the hub for all districts but it is a away from home site for all. and you are in a motel at that site or crew change point. in most cases where your home terminal is you should live within a 1hr 30 min call time and trust me sometimes this is not enough, and the caller might give you a short call. if you go to a hiring session you should plan on living as close to the home terminal as you can,

[Anonymous]

So, is it safe to assume that a hiring session in a given city is for a home terminal in that given city?

[Anonymous]

So, is it safe to assume that a hiring session in a given city is for a home terminal in that given city?

[Anonymous]

wabash1: You are right about about living close. My friend's dad works for the railroad, and they are always giving him short calls. Lucky for him that he lives close because if not, he would never get there on time. It amazes me how some of these crewmen do it. Some of them drive a long way to get to where they are supposed to be. I really admire them for what they do. I can't imagine it being an easy job at all.
UPRR-MDC

[Anonymous]

wabash1: You are right about about living close. My friend's dad works for the railroad, and they are always giving him short calls. Lucky for him that he lives close because if not, he would never get there on time. It amazes me how some of these crewmen do it. Some of them drive a long way to get to where they are supposed to be. I really admire them for what they do. I can't imagine it being an easy job at all.
UPRR-MDC

[cabforward]

where you attend a hiring event for a r.r. has nothing to do with your home-base.. you can interview in chicago and select seattle for your home, if you want.. you should travel no farther to attend a hiring event than the nearest one to your residence..

the first-time interview is to acquaint you with the r.rs. expectations of you, and what you can expect from the r.r.. at this point, you promise nothing, the r.r. promises nothing..

the application will ask for several locations you would prefer to dispatch from..

your initial assignment may be several months as a trainee-cond. anyplace the r.r. sees fit.. when you finish as a 'probie', you will be considered for your preferred dispatch locations, in order of listing..

in talks with a union official plus information from a school for educating conds., crews are responsible for 200 + miles radiating from their dispatch location.. the r.r. unions call this 'protecting their positions'..

that means you can be sent to any location up to the mileage limit to work for as long as needed-- 2, 7, 10 days.. you can drive yourself or ask the r.r. to hire a cab to take you there, which is good if you have to work as soon as you step out of the car..

when your out-of-town run is over, the r.r. will send a cab to bring you to the dispatch point, or wherever you would report for a local assignment..

being assigned to a run that starts from your home-base and extends the maximum time allowed under work rules is different.. it is not related to the 200 mile limit.. this is merely how far your run takes you from your home-base before your clock runs out.. you could run 300-500 miles, depending on the priority of the load.. or you could start your long-haul run and stop a short distance from your dispatch point and sit for hours for a hundred reasons: eqpt. breakdown (your train or another); an auto-train or train-train collision; roadbed washout; too many trains contending for the few spots available for passage.. in any case, when your clock runs out, the r.r. must dispatch a replacement crew..


in south carolina, the notice is to report 90 min. after they call or page you.. and they dont take no for an answer..

[cabforward]

where you attend a hiring event for a r.r. has nothing to do with your home-base.. you can interview in chicago and select seattle for your home, if you want.. you should travel no farther to attend a hiring event than the nearest one to your residence..

the first-time interview is to acquaint you with the r.rs. expectations of you, and what you can expect from the r.r.. at this point, you promise nothing, the r.r. promises nothing..

the application will ask for several locations you would prefer to dispatch from..

your initial assignment may be several months as a trainee-cond. anyplace the r.r. sees fit.. when you finish as a 'probie', you will be considered for your preferred dispatch locations, in order of listing..

in talks with a union official plus information from a school for educating conds., crews are responsible for 200 + miles radiating from their dispatch location.. the r.r. unions call this 'protecting their positions'..

that means you can be sent to any location up to the mileage limit to work for as long as needed-- 2, 7, 10 days.. you can drive yourself or ask the r.r. to hire a cab to take you there, which is good if you have to work as soon as you step out of the car..

when your out-of-town run is over, the r.r. will send a cab to bring you to the dispatch point, or wherever you would report for a local assignment..

being assigned to a run that starts from your home-base and extends the maximum time allowed under work rules is different.. it is not related to the 200 mile limit.. this is merely how far your run takes you from your home-base before your clock runs out.. you could run 300-500 miles, depending on the priority of the load.. or you could start your long-haul run and stop a short distance from your dispatch point and sit for hours for a hundred reasons: eqpt. breakdown (your train or another); an auto-train or train-train collision; roadbed washout; too many trains contending for the few spots available for passage.. in any case, when your clock runs out, the r.r. must dispatch a replacement crew..


in south carolina, the notice is to report 90 min. after they call or page you.. and they dont take no for an answer..

[Anonymous]

Excellent information! Thank you so much for this.
What you told me sounds really great, and a relief.
Thats the way the military does it, you list your preferences while in basic training.
Of course in the military there is no guarantee, but it helps.

QUOTE:
you should travel no farther to attend a hiring event than the nearest one to your residence..

What does that mean plz explain.
Thx.

[Anonymous]

Excellent information! Thank you so much for this.
What you told me sounds really great, and a relief.
Thats the way the military does it, you list your preferences while in basic training.
Of course in the military there is no guarantee, but it helps.

QUOTE:
you should travel no farther to attend a hiring event than the nearest one to your residence..

What does that mean plz explain.
Thx.

[wabash1]

What cabforward says is not all true

the fact is where you go for hiring session is the area they want you to work. the area you work is what the extra board will cover. in other words if you are on a assignment that is out of dallas tx you wont protect jobs in memphis tn. the home terminal is where the extra board is. Now due to the utu agreement with the carriers if you catch a outlying point job( from the extra board it protects) you are only obligated to that job for 6days. after 6days you ask for relief and the carrier send you home. now when the job works again they send someone from that extra board to cover the job. and if you are first out guess what you go again.

If the railroad calls you in this is your interview and chance for being hired they dont just go to a area to talk with people. if you live in dallas exspect to work out of dallas not las vegas . I am not sure where he is comming up with this 500 mile run and priority thing. there is no train that is priority over another all trains are extras a stack train maybe be hotter than a regular frieght but that dont mean that you clear up for him unless the dispatcher says so.

yes it is the only way to say it if a railroad calls you in it is for that city. they will not talk to you in chicago to work in miami,fl. they will hire in what town they are in for that area. what cab forward might be thinking of is if work slows down they might offer you temperary transfer ( on our railroad) where they are short handed to work with no loss of senority. if you decide to stay then you lose your senority. and start over . now with system wide senority you go where you can hold a job.

[wabash1]

What cabforward says is not all true

the fact is where you go for hiring session is the area they want you to work. the area you work is what the extra board will cover. in other words if you are on a assignment that is out of dallas tx you wont protect jobs in memphis tn. the home terminal is where the extra board is. Now due to the utu agreement with the carriers if you catch a outlying point job( from the extra board it protects) you are only obligated to that job for 6days. after 6days you ask for relief and the carrier send you home. now when the job works again they send someone from that extra board to cover the job. and if you are first out guess what you go again.

If the railroad calls you in this is your interview and chance for being hired they dont just go to a area to talk with people. if you live in dallas exspect to work out of dallas not las vegas . I am not sure where he is comming up with this 500 mile run and priority thing. there is no train that is priority over another all trains are extras a stack train maybe be hotter than a regular frieght but that dont mean that you clear up for him unless the dispatcher says so.

yes it is the only way to say it if a railroad calls you in it is for that city. they will not talk to you in chicago to work in miami,fl. they will hire in what town they are in for that area. what cab forward might be thinking of is if work slows down they might offer you temperary transfer ( on our railroad) where they are short handed to work with no loss of senority. if you decide to stay then you lose your senority. and start over . now with system wide senority you go where you can hold a job.

[cabforward]

i am sorry for the bad info. i gave.. im not a r.r.-er, but from the info. i have accumulated, it seemed to make sense.. looking for sense was my first mistake..

i dont understand why an applicant must attend a hiring event where employment is preferred.. this costs applicants hundreds in trans, stayover, food, etc., for a job that may never happen..

why not cut the applicant a break and interview him/her at the hiring event nearset them? interview, test, background check, etc.. if the applicant does well, offer a job from the list of preferred locations.. if none are available, offer something elsewhere..

what is the downside? are there different work rules for different locations? does this make extra work for unions?

in reading and speaking with r.r. people, i have understood that, in south carolina, the ns handles xtra-board 200 mi. from the home-base.. xtra boards work up to a week anywhere in that circle.. ns pays the cabfare..

a road crew is dispatched from dogpatch.. they log 10-12 hours, whatever the max is, and they must be relieved.. if they are on a 'hotshot' run, wouldn't they get farther than a gen. merch. run?

whatever, they stop and await a relief crew.. the crew arrives, and the old crew returns to the relief's crews departure point.. i have read of this happening with freight & pass. trains..

[cabforward]

i am sorry for the bad info. i gave.. im not a r.r.-er, but from the info. i have accumulated, it seemed to make sense.. looking for sense was my first mistake..

i dont understand why an applicant must attend a hiring event where employment is preferred.. this costs applicants hundreds in trans, stayover, food, etc., for a job that may never happen..

why not cut the applicant a break and interview him/her at the hiring event nearset them? interview, test, background check, etc.. if the applicant does well, offer a job from the list of preferred locations.. if none are available, offer something elsewhere..

what is the downside? are there different work rules for different locations? does this make extra work for unions?

in reading and speaking with r.r. people, i have understood that, in south carolina, the ns handles xtra-board 200 mi. from the home-base.. xtra boards work up to a week anywhere in that circle.. ns pays the cabfare..

a road crew is dispatched from dogpatch.. they log 10-12 hours, whatever the max is, and they must be relieved.. if they are on a 'hotshot' run, wouldn't they get farther than a gen. merch. run?

whatever, they stop and await a relief crew.. the crew arrives, and the old crew returns to the relief's crews departure point.. i have read of this happening with freight & pass. trains..

[Anonymous]

Ney, Cab has inferred alot here! It depends on the RR! I have system wide seniority. On the UP it is different. I do know that where you hire is where you will train. On some roads, you may transfer, but seniority will be lost. If I were you, hire where you can (and plan to live there), but talk to the Local Chair and find out how the seniority districts are set up and where your seniority is good out of the terminal hired. Cab is over simplifying agreements. In my terminal, we have no less than 6 local agreements, all are a little different. My terminal runs all 4 directions n,s,w,e. We have at least 9 pools protecting these runs (each, trnmen, hogs) not including the Ex boards. So if you work outta Timbucktu, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will protect all directions outta there. There are double ended pools and single ended pools in the mix as well. Don't worry about this crap! Just do your best to hire out and the rest will come. You don't learn this stuff over nite. I am still learning every day. Getting paid is annother headache laden with arbitraries, special claims and declines. Just part of the fun of RRing.
Ken

[Anonymous]

Ney, Cab has inferred alot here! It depends on the RR! I have system wide seniority. On the UP it is different. I do know that where you hire is where you will train. On some roads, you may transfer, but seniority will be lost. If I were you, hire where you can (and plan to live there), but talk to the Local Chair and find out how the seniority districts are set up and where your seniority is good out of the terminal hired. Cab is over simplifying agreements. In my terminal, we have no less than 6 local agreements, all are a little different. My terminal runs all 4 directions n,s,w,e. We have at least 9 pools protecting these runs (each, trnmen, hogs) not including the Ex boards. So if you work outta Timbucktu, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will protect all directions outta there. There are double ended pools and single ended pools in the mix as well. Don't worry about this crap! Just do your best to hire out and the rest will come. You don't learn this stuff over nite. I am still learning every day. Getting paid is annother headache laden with arbitraries, special claims and declines. Just part of the fun of RRing.
Ken

[cabforward]

maybe i was getting an oversimplified version of how things work.. whatever..

[cabforward]

maybe i was getting an oversimplified version of how things work.. whatever..

[Anonymous]

The reason I ask is that the hiring session is in the next state over from where I live. 1.25 hours by plane.
I already have 3 other applications for the same RR in cities closer to where I live, all within 1-3 hours by car; but they still show "currently being reviewed" as status.
I believe I should go to this session in the next state and listen to what they have to say, see if they like me and vice-versa....at least UP will at least have on record I interviewed.
I dont have to take it, and can wait for them to invite me to the other 3.
If they invited me to this one, there is no reason not to invite me one of to the other 3.

[Anonymous]

The reason I ask is that the hiring session is in the next state over from where I live. 1.25 hours by plane.
I already have 3 other applications for the same RR in cities closer to where I live, all within 1-3 hours by car; but they still show "currently being reviewed" as status.
I believe I should go to this session in the next state and listen to what they have to say, see if they like me and vice-versa....at least UP will at least have on record I interviewed.
I dont have to take it, and can wait for them to invite me to the other 3.
If they invited me to this one, there is no reason not to invite me one of to the other 3.

[Anonymous]

Boy Howdy,is ironken ever right about the nightmare of just trying to get paid .They sure don't tell you how to claim everything they owe you either.
Just be flexible on where you can live , that's the bottom line and make sure you can transfer to other terminals if work slows down where you hire on .You don't lose seniority transfering at all R.R's. With BNSF,i can go anywhere except the old Northern Pacific territory.If I should get cut off here in Memphis , I can go to Tulsa,Amarillo,Kansas City,Belen,NM.,Barstow,Ca., Los Angeles., Denver,Co.....Anywhere I have people beat in seniority ,on most of the system. If the R.R.you plan on hiring with will not let you transfer,you are Gambling a lot on the decisions of a few management types. ...This is one reason seniority is so important,hire on as soon as possible.Right now,someone is getting an earlier seniority date than you....Showing up at too many hiring sessions may cause them to wonder why you have not been considered earlier........They all LOVE someone that is Safety oriented for obvious reasons.....Impress upon them that you are aware of your surroundings at all times,safe & do not work in a haphazard manner....Don't come across as a RAILFAN,some may think you just want to come out & play for a while ,only to quit in 6 months.They will spend in the 5 figure range just to train you,unless it's one of those Podunk R.R's that make you pay for your own training.If you do have to pay for your training,that should tell you volumnes about how they will treat you in the future.....
Don't bring up any Unions of past affiliations unless they ask.Remember,the Union does not sign the front of the check......Finally,this is bound to stir up a few folks.......CSX & CN-IC engines usually are ragged inside,the toilets ALWAYS stink & the seats usually are low back,miserable sitting...An NS,for heavens sake,they can't even figure out which direction to run a locomotive........Let's face it, with mega-mergers on the horizon,WHY go with broke down,soon to be merged under ragged R.R's ?.....
Go with BNSF or UP.................GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Boy Howdy,is ironken ever right about the nightmare of just trying to get paid .They sure don't tell you how to claim everything they owe you either.
Just be flexible on where you can live , that's the bottom line and make sure you can transfer to other terminals if work slows down where you hire on .You don't lose seniority transfering at all R.R's. With BNSF,i can go anywhere except the old Northern Pacific territory.If I should get cut off here in Memphis , I can go to Tulsa,Amarillo,Kansas City,Belen,NM.,Barstow,Ca., Los Angeles., Denver,Co.....Anywhere I have people beat in seniority ,on most of the system. If the R.R.you plan on hiring with will not let you transfer,you are Gambling a lot on the decisions of a few management types. ...This is one reason seniority is so important,hire on as soon as possible.Right now,someone is getting an earlier seniority date than you....Showing up at too many hiring sessions may cause them to wonder why you have not been considered earlier........They all LOVE someone that is Safety oriented for obvious reasons.....Impress upon them that you are aware of your surroundings at all times,safe & do not work in a haphazard manner....Don't come across as a RAILFAN,some may think you just want to come out & play for a while ,only to quit in 6 months.They will spend in the 5 figure range just to train you,unless it's one of those Podunk R.R's that make you pay for your own training.If you do have to pay for your training,that should tell you volumnes about how they will treat you in the future.....
Don't bring up any Unions of past affiliations unless they ask.Remember,the Union does not sign the front of the check......Finally,this is bound to stir up a few folks.......CSX & CN-IC engines usually are ragged inside,the toilets ALWAYS stink & the seats usually are low back,miserable sitting...An NS,for heavens sake,they can't even figure out which direction to run a locomotive........Let's face it, with mega-mergers on the horizon,WHY go with broke down,soon to be merged under ragged R.R's ?.....
Go with BNSF or UP.................GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfmemptn

Don't come across as a RAILFAN,some may think you just want to come out & play for a while ,only to quit in 6 months.They will spend in the 5 figure range just to train you,

If the RR's are spending 5 figures to pay people, why do people say once they hire you all they do is try to find ways to fire you?
Sounds like in reality the RR MUST ENFORCE SAFETY to the point that its either be safe or be fired.
Which I can understand....
What I dont understand is how people can say that a RR which invests so much money on each person, then turns around and makes their lives miserable.
If that were true no one would work for them.
I believe that the average railroad worker experiences 25% of whats been cited....no one experiences most or all of the negatives which are always brought up.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfmemptn

Don't come across as a RAILFAN,some may think you just want to come out & play for a while ,only to quit in 6 months.They will spend in the 5 figure range just to train you,

If the RR's are spending 5 figures to pay people, why do people say once they hire you all they do is try to find ways to fire you?
Sounds like in reality the RR MUST ENFORCE SAFETY to the point that its either be safe or be fired.
Which I can understand....
What I dont understand is how people can say that a RR which invests so much money on each person, then turns around and makes their lives miserable.
If that were true no one would work for them.
I believe that the average railroad worker experiences 25% of whats been cited....no one experiences most or all of the negatives which are always brought up.

[Anonymous]

Sorry Ney, most of us have experienced most of the crap cited. It is true, the severity may vary from person to person. Some TMs are not so bad as far as officials go, but, some are jackasses and will shake your hand and run a shank in your back as you walk away...........that's just how it is. P.S., did you get the job?????????
Ken

[Anonymous]

Sorry Ney, most of us have experienced most of the crap cited. It is true, the severity may vary from person to person. Some TMs are not so bad as far as officials go, but, some are jackasses and will shake your hand and run a shank in your back as you walk away...........that's just how it is. P.S., did you get the job?????????
Ken

[cabforward]

it seems in r.r.-ing each person in charge at a particular level is a king unto himself.. a challenge can be made, but is extremely difficult and payback is hell..

as the level moves higher, the challenge and risk to the challenger increase exponentially..

the only way to really get around the deal is to be related (blood or marriage) to the person in question, have him owe you money or have embarassing pictures.. when all else fails, suck
up and pray..

[cabforward]

it seems in r.r.-ing each person in charge at a particular level is a king unto himself.. a challenge can be made, but is extremely difficult and payback is hell..

as the level moves higher, the challenge and risk to the challenger increase exponentially..

the only way to really get around the deal is to be related (blood or marriage) to the person in question, have him owe you money or have embarassing pictures.. when all else fails, suck
up and pray..