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Is the forum dead?

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Is the forum dead?
Posted by gabe on Thursday, August 3, 2006 9:41 PM

Sorry,

I know I am being a bit of a defeatest and to quote my hero--Homer Simpson--no new C*%$.  But, I have got to say, the forum just is not the same since the change.

I have been on vacation since Tuesday, and I have been hopping on the forum as much as when I used to have a State government job and 70% productivity tended to embarass your collegues, and made you dare not work more than that.

But, the forum has just been absolutely dead lately.  Sure, there isn't kissmycindertrainfinder anoying everyone; but there also isn't the lively conversations and healthy disagreements that made this cite as great as it was.  I don't know if it is because the new format has chased some of the previous contributors away, or what, but it has just been dead for the last week.

As much as I hate to admit it, but I owe 18% of my train knowledge to futuremodal.  Not that he personally educates me, but some of the stuff he says prompts others to give very learned responses back.  In many ways, I think futuremodal is the most valuable contributor.  And, I think his missives should be encouraged.

But, there was not a single topic indicative of what really made this forum so great for me in the past this week.

I am a lawyer, and have a greater tolerance for the argumentation that people are trying to get rid of on here.  But, I think this falls under the "careful what you ask for, you might get it."

Alas, this is another example of the trouble of the great things in life you get for free, you don't have a lot of power to hold on to them.  What I would give for a LC - Greyhound dispute with Futuremodal with occasional refing by Mr. Hemphill et al . . .

Gabe

P.S. Does MP 173 still contribute; I miss Ed's contributions too.

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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Thursday, August 3, 2006 9:46 PM
No, not dead. Mid-summer vapor lock. Laugh [(-D]
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Posted by Richard A on Thursday, August 3, 2006 9:56 PM

I agree.  It is the mid-summer lull.  Actually, there seems to be more participation than last summer, but who's counting.

You can take a few weeks off and not be afraid of missing anythng. Smile [:)]

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Posted by CopCarSS on Thursday, August 3, 2006 10:03 PM

I think the forum is also taking a collective breather after all the "Thread For Everybody!" threads, and the resulting spoofing of the same.

Other than that, I haven't noticed it being a whole lot different than status quo, apart from the new look. BTW, you can find FM on the "open access" and "closed access" threads. There's still some lively debate in there.

What's new in your world Gabe?

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Posted by gabe on Thursday, August 3, 2006 10:04 PM

Last summer, we had the problem of all of the Teany Boppers who were out of school and posting agressive posts . . . not that some of the younger people on here are valuable contributors.  But, it was a LOT better than it is now.

I fear I will not be coming back after this vacation.  Not out of protest, but just because the cite isn't very good.  That would be a BIG disappointment, as there are a lot of forum members I consider it an honor to have know.

Gabe

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Posted by gabe on Thursday, August 3, 2006 10:07 PM
 CopCarSS wrote:

I think the forum is also taking a collective breather after all the "Thread For Everybody!" threads, and the resulting spoofing of the same.

Other than that, I haven't noticed it being a whole lot different than status quo, apart from the new look. BTW, you can find FM on the "open access" and "closed access" threads. There's still some lively debate in there.

What's new in your world Gabe?

A new child, which means when I am not working, I am raising her, which doesn't leave a lot of time for trains.  Other than that, it is pretty good.  I work a lot more than I should, but the work is interesting and fun.  If I could find just a little more time in my life for trains, this forum, and family--not necessarily in that order--I think I would be living the perfect life.

How are things with you?

Thanks for asking.

Gabe

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Posted by erikem on Thursday, August 3, 2006 10:11 PM
I've found FM's postings to be generally informative as well - though I also disagree about the LCV's. I've also found M. Sol's postings to be informative as well, picked up a lot of interesting stuff on the CMStP&P from him - he's obviously partial, but he does come with a lot of facts.

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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Thursday, August 3, 2006 10:21 PM
 gabe wrote:

I fear I will not be coming back after this vacation.  Not out of protest, but just because the cite isn't very good.  That would be a BIG disappointment, as there are a lot of forum members I consider it an honor to have know.

Gabe

Jeez, Gabe, say it ain't so. I have always enjoyed your perspectives. Even when I operated here under a different name going back to 2000 or whatever -- mostly lurking.

Of course, no one is irreplaceable, but losing you would be a BIG disappointment to a lot of us. Ya gets out of forums what ya puts in.

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Posted by CopCarSS on Thursday, August 3, 2006 10:43 PM

About the same. Just plugging away at work, and trying to get out on the weekends as much as possible. I've been having a pretty productive summer, and have managed to get out railfanning quite  bit, as well as enjoying some hikes both in CO, as well as a trip up to Yellowstone to meet up with some other photographers from the DPReview Canon forum.

August has turned on the calendar, and that means that fall isn't that far away. I'm hoping to get down to the Cumbres and Toltec for some fall color this year. They run a photo freight for Trains Unlimited Tours every year, and I was thinking about renting a 4x4 and chasing the train with that.

Congratulations on your new child! Hope all works out with that, and I hope you can find a little free time for trains, and hanging around here (I'd be sad to see you go, too).

Take care, and good luck!

-Chris
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Posted by Limitedclear on Friday, August 4, 2006 12:30 AM

The Forum is DEAD...

Long live the forum....

Still travelling Gabe. Who says you can't get around in the RR biz...

LC

 

 

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Posted by nanaimo73 on Friday, August 4, 2006 1:21 AM
The forum could certainly use some of your topics. MWH is posting some, under a different name since April. Overmod is not around, Old Timer and feltonhill have not been talking about steam lately, nor Peter-M636C about diesels. I have not seen CSXengineer on the new forum, the most genuine, human poster around. Murphy may have run out of railroads to start topics on as well, but he's trying to keep the forum interesting. Kissmy is now Champliansomething. Bigboy Elliot has problems of his own to deal with, although he was mostly on the modeling forum. I might do something on the IC next door, but I'm burnt out for now.
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Posted by csxengineer98 on Friday, August 4, 2006 4:14 AM
i have been around...just nothing realy worth responding to in weeks... no good topics for me to add my 10 dollors worth to...
csx engineer

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, August 4, 2006 6:03 AM

I plain ran out of questions.  But....thinking up new topics is everyone's job.  To keep the forum from getting as dull as it has, everyone really needs to think up at least one topic.  There are a lot of people out there with answers and they gladly share them - but even if you are in the "business", surely there is something you could either start a topic on or ask about. 

I don't think I am alone in saying that the back and forth between say FM and someone was waaay over my head - some of the simple things like "does lightning hit trains" were just right for me.  We need variety not nonsense.  I can't do megers and eastern railroads and management.  But I can do "what are the yellow thingies and where are they on the brand new engines?"  I know both answers now but only got one from the forum.  The other I chose not to post because it would be buried by the nonsense at the end of one day.  So I went behind the scenes and asked Houston Ed. 

So if you want an interactive forum and an interesting one, try doing some of the work - each and every one of us.  Lurkers - post at least one time.  Give us a chance to have a dialog, not a constant monologue. This many people surely can come up with something to discuss.

Gabe - enjoy your postings - in this case the forum needs a couple of lawyers.  Hope you will reconsider.  Read the diner forum to the baby - guaranteed happy results!

Mookie

 

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Posted by eolafan on Friday, August 4, 2006 6:06 AM
 Mookie wrote:

I plain ran out of questions.  But....thinking up new topics is everyone's job.  To keep the forum from getting as dull as it has, everyone really needs to think up at least one topic.  There are a lot of people out there with answers and they gladly share them - but even if you are in the "business", surely there is something you could either start a topic on or ask about. 

I don't think I am alone in saying that the back and forth between say FM and someone was waaay over my head - some of the simple things like "does lightning hit trains" were just right for me.  We need variety not nonsense.  I can't do megers and eastern railroads and management.  But I can do "what are the yellow thingies and where are they on the brand new engines?"  I know both answers now but only got one from the forum.  The other I chose not to post because it would be buried by the nonsense at the end of one day.  So I went behind the scenes and asked Houston Ed. 

So if you want an interactive forum and an interesting one, try doing some of the work - each and every one of us.  Lurkers - post at least one time.  Give us a chance to have a dialog, not a constant monologue. This many people surely can come up with something to discuss.

Gabe - enjoy your postings - in this case the forum needs a couple of lawyers.  Hope you will reconsider.  Read the diner forum to the baby - guaranteed happy results!

Mookie

 

OK Mook, I have a question...your puddy cat in the picture looks kind of sad to me....why?

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, August 4, 2006 6:37 AM

The picture is to depict a kitty who lost her job on the railroad (through no fault of her own, of course) and has hit the skids and must now stand on street corners and ask the kind people for help. 

Actually, she has kibbles in her pails and needs milk, but is too lazy to go to the store.  The work part is just to tug at heartstrings and the head is down cuz she is admiring her new nail polish. 

Behind the scenes - Brother Carl sent that to me - I liked it so well, it has been on my office door for several years. 

La Mook 

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, August 4, 2006 7:06 AM

Can't help it Mookie.

 

Look at the buckets...empty.

Need I say more?

Nothing is more sad than a milk junkie with empty buckets!

 

But the Mook hit it right on.

Between Mike Sol and FM’s “is so, is not, is so,” argument threads, and the “threads for everybody” it has become pretty much a topic wasteland.

Think about this; the thread directed towards Mr. Wrinn seems to be one of the few where ideas about future stories in Trains has been bandied about, with many good concepts being brought up and discussed.

Interesting, lively and free of the “I’m smarter than you” crud that has infected most of the other threads.

 

I know why CSXengineer is so quite…he is waiting for someone to ask him an intelligent question he can answer.

Me too!

There isn’t much he or I could add to the “I saw a red locomotive” style thread.

Ask about flat yard switching, I’m your guy…ask about running really hairy big freight trains, he has you covered.

Want to know how and why a hump yard does certain things, see Carl S,

Tell me you saw a red locomotive…..ok, and?

 

Although I can’t really speak for CSXengineer, I can tell you I am pretty tired of all the “UP sucks, BNSF sucks, CSX sucks, I wish they would bring back the Cotton Belt”, “I hate the new paint scheme ” threads…to us, this is a ongoing part of our daily lives…

Whether UP or BNSF sucks is all a matter of perspective.

 

If they sign your paycheck, then they don’t suck that bad…

 

For a lot of us, this is how we make our living, and reading how upset some one is over the shape of a logo is somewhat amusing, but not worth getting your panties all wadded up,…it is a tool to us, one of the tools we use to do our job, and we pretty much don’t care what color it is painted, so long as it works.

 

On the other hand, “What are the yellow thingies on the trucks of BN locomotives” is one of those questions that will have railroaders and fans scrambling to go see if they can find a yellow thingies, and get the answer.

 

I think what I am trying to get at is that a lot of the threads now follow the chat room format, instead of a question/answer/discussion format.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and the right to express it, and you will find I am one of the first to defend those rights, heck, I even argued on the side of FM having every right to come here and make a fool of himself, but after a while, seeing UP sucks in every other thread, or reading about how someone hates the new paint on BNSF locomotives gets kinda tired.

 

Ed

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 4, 2006 7:18 AM
YAWN.....
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Posted by jeaton on Friday, August 4, 2006 7:27 AM

Times change, people move on, the depth of interest in a particular area will wax and wane.  As a young adult, I worked on, ate, drank and slept railroads.  Later on there was family, different jobs and other hobbies and activites and my interest in the railroad business took a back seat in the, er... jumbo jet.

However, it is a most fascinating business.  One may leave for a while or maybe as in my case even years, but then you pick up a copy of Trains, or read a book such as "The Men Who Loved Trains" and it all comes back.

 

Jay

 

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, August 4, 2006 7:43 AM

You do reach a point at which most of your questions have been answered, most of your stored up stories have been told, and you just don't have a lot to say.  I was noticing that even before the format change.  Some people "get up and leave," others just lay back and become less active.

The "Thread For" explosion kept me quiet for a while - I may enjoy reading the occasional piece about any given railroad, but when all of page one was "Thread For" material, well, I'll just click over to a local forum for a bit.  That one goes through the occasional doldrum, too, and many threads seem to devolve into personal attack forums after all of the pertinent points have been covered, but it can prove entertaining at times. 

Now that we're back into a more normal mix, I drop the occasional comment in a thread, if I have something to add, and read with amusement some of the more arcane stuff.  I really don't mind the "today I saw" thread - everybody needs a place to brag up the high point of their day, even if it's an everyday occurance for others.

Gabe - don't leave - keep in touch.  After a while we'll evolve into a "new" group.  The old timers will tell their stories (again) and answer questions (again), and the newbies will bring new insight. 

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Posted by beaulieu on Friday, August 4, 2006 7:55 AM
 edblysard wrote:


<snipped>

 

I know why CSXengineer is so quite…he is waiting for someone to ask him an intelligent question he can answer.

Me too!

There isn’t much he or I could add to the “I saw a red locomotive” style thread.

Ask about flat yard switching, I’m your guy…ask about running really hairy big freight trains, he has you covered.

Want to know how and why a hump yard does certain things, see Carl S,

Tell me you saw a red locomotive…..ok, and?

 

Although I can’t really speak for CSXengineer, I can tell you I am pretty tired of all the “UP sucks, BNSF sucks, CSX sucks, I wish they would bring back the Cotton Belt”, “I hate the new paint scheme ” threads…to us, this is a ongoing part of our daily lives…

Whether UP or BNSF sucks is all a matter of perspective.

 

If they sign your paycheck, then they don’t suck that bad…

 

For a lot of us, this is how we make our living, and reading how upset some one is over the shape of a logo is somewhat amusing, but not worth getting your panties all wadded up,…it is a tool to us, one of the tools we use to do our job, and we pretty much don’t care what color it is painted, so long as it works.

 

On the other hand, “What are the yellow thingies on the trucks of BN locomotives” is one of those questions that will have railroaders and fans scrambling to go see if they can find a yellow thingies, and get the answer.

 

I think what I am trying to get at is that a lot of the threads now follow the chat room format, instead of a question/answer/discussion format.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and the right to express it, and you will find I am one of the first to defend those rights, heck, I even argued on the side of FM having every right to come here and make a fool of himself, but after a while, seeing UP sucks in every other thread, or reading about how someone hates the new paint on BNSF locomotives gets kinda tired.

 

Ed

 



I have a couple of questions Ed, the first concerns the Cat powered switchers you operate a PTRA.
Are they powered by the 12cyl. 3512 engine. or the 16 cyl. 3516 engine. How has been PTRA's experience with the locomotives. The reason I ask is the Austrian Railway the OBB has been experiencing serious problems have been with the Cat 3512 engine itself. Its possible that things like frame stiffness could be the culprit, but I was wondering what your experiences were like?
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Posted by edblysard on Friday, August 4, 2006 8:10 AM

They have the 12 banger....

http://www.thedieselshop.us/PTRR.HTML

is a list of the locomotives, and what frames they were built on.

So far, they have been pretty good locomotives.

On their 10th year, and entering a rebuild/overhaul program here...in a lot of cases, the diesel is pulled out, refurbished and re-installed....while the prime mover is out, they are cleaning and inspecting all other system, replacing worn wires, ducts and such, repainting all the interiors in the long hood and the cab.

For what we do with them, they have held up quite nicely...because the majority of our work is flat switching and industry, they get pretty banged up, but they seem up to the task.

The only major failures have been a head on collision with a loaded grain train, which bent the frame beyond repair, and the 9601 got speared by a piece of drill stem(pipe) that rolled off the top of a gondola in the next track, and stabbed the locomotive as it was passing by.

Managed to go through the cab floor under the engineers seat, the A/C unit, then the back wall, alternator and out the other side by ten feet.

 

The head on was sent back to Bosie(MK) for a new frame, they swapped all the rest, cab, long hood, diesel and alternator over, and it was back in service within a year.

The 9601 was repaired here, at our shop, after a lot of photos were taken!

 

Ed

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 4, 2006 8:25 AM

The forum is hardly dead, it has just morphed into a slightly different shape, as it has in the past and will probably do so again.  Some of the threads have gotten a bit repetitive, and some are a bit juvenile, but there are enough interesting threads that allow me to share what I know with others and learn something from others who are much more knowledgable than me.

Don't give up on the forum, Gabe.  When your kids get older and you get a little free time, we'll be here waiting to hear from you.

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Posted by wallyworld on Friday, August 4, 2006 8:47 AM
Speaking strickly for myself, I think the timing of this transition to a more restrictive access of format in the midst of the summer lull broke the continuity and general community feel of the old forum. I re-registered more out of curiousity than anything else and log on to read posts out of habit..not much of interest to respond to, and not much of interest to me to care enough to post about. Maybe it's just a phase...

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Posted by chad thomas on Friday, August 4, 2006 10:42 AM
Gabe, You should know how this forum has its little cycles. I hope you will still drop in from time to time as I always enjoy your posts.
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Posted by gabe on Friday, August 4, 2006 10:49 AM

Sorry if my talk of leaving made it sound like an ultimatum or something like that.  It wasn't.  It was just that it seemed as though NO ONE was really on here with good topics recently, and it really wasn't the forum anymore.

I understand Mookie's point about the I'm smarter than you stuff.  But, I think often those threads produced some of the most interesting comments.  Some of the things Greyhounds has said in response to some of those threads have really increased my knowledge.

In any event, as long as there is a forum to stay around, I will always try to come back.  My only point was, there didn't seem to be anything to come back to as of late.

Gabe

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Posted by trainfan1221 on Friday, August 4, 2006 12:22 PM
Not the same since the changes.  I don't look forward to coming here like I used to.  I also find things a little more confusing.  I don't even know how to negotiate my past posts to look for replies.  I wasn't sure I was the only one who thought things had gone downhill somewhat, I hope things improve over time. 
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 4, 2006 12:28 PM

As much as I hate to admit it, but I owe 18% of my train knowledge to futuremodal.  Not that he personally educates me, but some of the stuff he says prompts others to give very learned responses back.  In many ways, I think futuremodal is the most valuable contributor.  And, I think his missives should be encouraged.

Gee, thanks for the compliment........I.....guess......Confused [%-)]

Of course, you do get it apparently.  There is a method to my madness, in that such can elicit responses that otherwise would go unposted.  But yes, the forum has lost it's edge in terms of liveliness.  I blame it on the transition from the old red-orange background to this new calming earth tone background.

As for the "thread for everyone" outbreak, I pin the source blame squarely on Murphy, who started a "everyone" Milwaukee thread in response to the rancor on the usual Milwaukee threads, and pretty soon every third topic was an "everyone" thread.  But I'm sure he did not envision it getting so out of hand.Oops [oops]

BTW - It's never too early to start the young 'uns on cultivation of railroad minutia.  Surely you can type and babysit at the same time?

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, August 4, 2006 12:53 PM
 futuremodal wrote:

As for the "thread for everyone" outbreak, I pin the source blame squarely on Murphy, who started a "everyone" Milwaukee thread in response to the rancor on the usual Milwaukee threads, and pretty soon every third topic was an "everyone" thread.  But I'm sure he did not envision it getting so out of hand.Oops [oops]

Shock [:O]Laugh [(-D]  I believe I started a non-confrontational Milwaukee Road thread.(Which, by the way, no one seemed interested inBlack Eye [B)]).  The oscar for the best impersonation of Pandora's box goes to a Conrail fan.  Oh, well.  Q-Sara-SaraSmile [:)]

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 4, 2006 1:20 PM
 edblysard wrote:

 

I think what I am trying to get at is that a lot of the threads now follow the chat room format, instead of a question/answer/discussion format.

 


Ed

 



Bingo!!

Plus, the growing "this is MY forum, and I'm going to decide how others here must behave" mentality of a few of the core members seems to be dampening creativity here.

Between Chad's "eating popcorn" smiley, JHHTrainsPlanes efforts to channel independant thought into pre approved master threads, and the handful of 'class tattletales' always threatening to "snitch to Bergie" whenever fun threads popped up that they disapproved of , I think that a lot of what used to make this forum fun has gone on to greener pastures..

Not that the members mentioned are not themselves great contributors, because they are.

But if coming in here as a n00b I see that one member thinks that all "recently I saw" topics belong in one thread only, and that all generic questions belong in another,  you get the feeling that you are gonna get jumped on if you fail to ask your question, properly. So my suspicion is that such perceived rigidity, sends people looking for a forum with a less military mentality.

By the same token, if member A and member B have a disagreement,  (people DO disagree, and if you've ever seen one of those quarreling married couples where they aren't happy unless they are at each others throats, you know that some people just like a good fight)  why not let them solve it them selves?  why must 3rd parties interject with their smart alec tauntings  of "hey, you're not getting along, lets sell popcorn" etc. ?

There are a lot of people here who seem to assign themselves the role of surrogate parent, and as an answer to the question "where have some of the members gone?"I think it's fair to suspect that many have left because they tired of 17-25 year olds  pretending to play a parental role here.

As much as I enjoy many of Bigboy 4884's contributions here, I can't even begin to count the number of times where he has claimed some form of personal imperilment over a debate going on between two other members,   and he takes  the initiative to try and play "forum cop",.. where I've wanted to say "Hey BB, if you really hate reading these types of posts, what's stopping you from using that mouse sitting in front of you to go find a thread you have less trouble with?"

And I don't mean that to sound ugly, he sure isn't the only one to try and play forum cop, just one of the more blatant ones.

But, I think that type of ersatz moderation has a dampening effect on forum creativity, because once the environment starts to feel "chaperonned", people start looking for a party where the people are allowed to have fun.

People can say "hey your idea is really (bad/dumb/foolish/etc)"  for any number of reasons,  and that is just reality at work. Most people can take that.  But when you have a handful of people who start replying with "hey, you really shouldn't post topics like that here, I'm telling on you".....why is it such a surprise that those cast into the position of odd man out go find some other place, and leave the self appointed forum cops to enjoy their little private  world?

FWIW, I think that Michael Sol is one of the brightest wicks to have ever visited this forum,and the band of jokers who have made it their business to gang attack him because of a difference of philosophies have done more to ruin this forum than any 10 "KMC" 's ever could.

So long as the same band of rogue para-authorities continue to suffocate whatever they happen to personally disapprove of, why should it be any mystery at all why it feels "stuffy" in here?


My 2 cents [2c]
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Nanaimo BC Canada
  • 4,117 posts
Posted by nanaimo73 on Friday, August 4, 2006 1:41 PM
Well said, Anti. The Ilks drove arbfbe off of the forum with their constant bitter attacks on Sol and FM, can anyone find another CMO to replace him ? Several other posters stopped posting so they would not become targets. One is an engineer running steam in western Canada.
Dale

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