RR Employment: What am I doing wrong?

[Anonymous]

Ney, shop laborer work sucks! I wouldn't suggest the 'ol getting your foot in the door bit. Most class 1's won't allow craft transfer within the first year, or until a year after your apprenticeship program is complete. As L.C. said. The RR is a way of life! I got forced to a board that I don't wanna work on. I tied up at 2300 and I'll be back out in the morning. This 8-12 on and 8 off can go on indefinitely. I'm surprised that BNSF won't look at you. We have NHs that used to work at grocry stores, chicks that couldn't change a knuckle, and other asst. lots.
Ken

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ney1815

Thanks Mike, I was considering doing so, except that elsewhere in these forums I have read numerous times that Railroads prefer to train you "their way".
There is a college just north of me which once offered an Associates Degree in Railroad Operations, but now just offers Dispatcher....
Since, I already have a Bachelors Degree I am not really interested in an Associates degree of any type.
However, I would like to take a course....CSX sounded good but you must live in the area to take the course at the Jacksonville School...I am in Texas...which disqualifies me.
I will check out MODAC if you all have a contrary opinion to whats already been posted about the schools...i.e. not to go.

First of all the name of the school is Modoc Railroad Academy, not MODAC.

Second, Modoc is far from the only school or even the best school for TY&E. For example the BNSF training center on the grounds of the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) just outside KC accepts outside applicants for their program as conductors. You will require a railroad sponsor for thei Locomotive Engineer program as you will anywhere if you ever want to get a card. Read 49 CFR 240 et seq. ONLY a common carrier railroad with an FRA approved 49 CFR 240 Program on file can certify a locomotive engineer. This is one reason that those training independently must repeat the RRs in house training for locomotive engineer certification.

Third, there is NO magic in having a bachelor's degree or an associate's degree in getting hired in TY&E service. I have not only a bachelor's, but a graduate professional degree and had both BEFORE hiring out on a Class 1 (I have worked for 2 Class 1s and a few Class 3 RRs as well). I think, if anything they made getting hired more difficult.

The fact that you are in Texas shouldn't hold you back. If you really want to work on the RR get ready to travel. You will have to go wherever you can hold to keep working on the RR when and if you do get hired. Based upon your responses so far, I am beginning to understand why perhaps you haven't been more successful so far. You need to realize that railroading is a way of life that will SUBSTANTIALLY change your life. Be prepared to adjust to it, if it is what you really want to do. It will not adjust to you.

Good luck,

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ney1815

Thanks Mike, I was considering doing so, except that elsewhere in these forums I have read numerous times that Railroads prefer to train you "their way".
There is a college just north of me which once offered an Associates Degree in Railroad Operations, but now just offers Dispatcher....
Since, I already have a Bachelors Degree I am not really interested in an Associates degree of any type.
However, I would like to take a course....CSX sounded good but you must live in the area to take the course at the Jacksonville School...I am in Texas...which disqualifies me.
I will check out MODAC if you all have a contrary opinion to whats already been posted about the schools...i.e. not to go.

First of all the name of the school is Modoc Railroad Academy, not MODAC.

Second, Modoc is far from the only school or even the best school for TY&E. For example the BNSF training center on the grounds of the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) just outside KC accepts outside applicants for their program as conductors. You will require a railroad sponsor for thei Locomotive Engineer program as you will anywhere if you ever want to get a card. Read 49 CFR 240 et seq. ONLY a common carrier railroad with an FRA approved 49 CFR 240 Program on file can certify a locomotive engineer. This is one reason that those training independently must repeat the RRs in house training for locomotive engineer certification.

Third, there is NO magic in having a bachelor's degree or an associate's degree in getting hired in TY&E service. I have not only a bachelor's, but a graduate professional degree and had both BEFORE hiring out on a Class 1 (I have worked for 2 Class 1s and a few Class 3 RRs as well). I think, if anything they made getting hired more difficult.

The fact that you are in Texas shouldn't hold you back. If you really want to work on the RR get ready to travel. You will have to go wherever you can hold to keep working on the RR when and if you do get hired. Based upon your responses so far, I am beginning to understand why perhaps you haven't been more successful so far. You need to realize that railroading is a way of life that will SUBSTANTIALLY change your life. Be prepared to adjust to it, if it is what you really want to do. It will not adjust to you.

Good luck,

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrw249

Conductors only start out around $30000 a year. Engineers make a couple bucks more a hour. How can they end up making $80000 to $100000 a year?

Simple, first of all, what you make depends upon where you work and what you do. The $30,000 figure used by most RRs is based upon initial training pay and then assumes you go to a relatively low paying job on the RR. For example working a yard job 8 hours per day with no overtime. The places you can make more money is OT and on the road where you make money based upon mileage worked, not hours. There are also various "arbitrary payments" you may be entitled to under the agreements. Some of these can add literally a full days pay to your day (on CR a trainee working one minute of OT in a yard was a penalty day). Others add a few dollars here or there (working through lunch, or making a shove move for example). So, working the road or the extra board results in earnings much higher than those figures. Also, you make a LOT more when the railroad is congested and you are outlawing all over the place, like in the NS/CSX/CR deal or the UP/SP situation.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrw249

Conductors only start out around $30000 a year. Engineers make a couple bucks more a hour. How can they end up making $80000 to $100000 a year?

Simple, first of all, what you make depends upon where you work and what you do. The $30,000 figure used by most RRs is based upon initial training pay and then assumes you go to a relatively low paying job on the RR. For example working a yard job 8 hours per day with no overtime. The places you can make more money is OT and on the road where you make money based upon mileage worked, not hours. There are also various "arbitrary payments" you may be entitled to under the agreements. Some of these can add literally a full days pay to your day (on CR a trainee working one minute of OT in a yard was a penalty day). Others add a few dollars here or there (working through lunch, or making a shove move for example). So, working the road or the extra board results in earnings much higher than those figures. Also, you make a LOT more when the railroad is congested and you are outlawing all over the place, like in the NS/CSX/CR deal or the UP/SP situation.

LC

[Anonymous]

Thanks for asking the question! The info recieved was informative and I hope more is on the way. I as well you will use the info recieved. Keep it coming!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for asking the question! The info recieved was informative and I hope more is on the way. I as well you will use the info recieved. Keep it coming!

[jrw249]

Conductors only start out around $30000 a year. Engineers make a couple bucks more a hour. How can they end up making $80000 to $100000 a year?

[jrw249]

Conductors only start out around $30000 a year. Engineers make a couple bucks more a hour. How can they end up making $80000 to $100000 a year?

[jrw249]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

Here are a few basic truths about working on the railroad.

1. The railroad is a difficult place to work, but the compensation is significant when compared to many jobs at a similar level with other industrial concerns.

2. Railroads have high turnover in certain areas particularly train and engine service. I have heard figures as high as 90% quit in the first 5 years. In my experience it is not that high, but it is higher than many jobs because of the nature of the work. (24/7 call, on the road and away from family, no social life, etc)

3. It takes a certain independent kind of woman to be a railroad wife. My wife refers to herself as a "Railroad Widow".

4. Other jobs on the railroad have issues too and pay is not as good as TY&E. Take for example the Signal Maintainer having a large district. Called out in the worst weather to fix signals and interlockings or make sure the switch heaters work. MOW folks laboring in the hot sun or extreme cold with heavy steel and ties, always looking over your shoulder to avoid that pasing train... The Dispatcher struggling to keep the railroad fluid with too much territory to ever know. Even the Train Master and Roadforeman with too many employees to supervise and unrealistic demands and quotas passed down from more senior management.

Working on the railroad is no picnic and it isn't always as good as it looks.

That said, where else can someone with a high school level of education reach a position to earn $80,000+ annually (in the past this could be $100,000+, but new employees don't have many of the old agreement rights that pre-85 hires have. Even that is changing in the most recent agreements with trip rates and other new methods of pay.

There is also, of course the side benefits of getting to run the train, not that anyone would hire out for that...[;)]

LC

[jrw249]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

Here are a few basic truths about working on the railroad.

1. The railroad is a difficult place to work, but the compensation is significant when compared to many jobs at a similar level with other industrial concerns.

2. Railroads have high turnover in certain areas particularly train and engine service. I have heard figures as high as 90% quit in the first 5 years. In my experience it is not that high, but it is higher than many jobs because of the nature of the work. (24/7 call, on the road and away from family, no social life, etc)

3. It takes a certain independent kind of woman to be a railroad wife. My wife refers to herself as a "Railroad Widow".

4. Other jobs on the railroad have issues too and pay is not as good as TY&E. Take for example the Signal Maintainer having a large district. Called out in the worst weather to fix signals and interlockings or make sure the switch heaters work. MOW folks laboring in the hot sun or extreme cold with heavy steel and ties, always looking over your shoulder to avoid that pasing train... The Dispatcher struggling to keep the railroad fluid with too much territory to ever know. Even the Train Master and Roadforeman with too many employees to supervise and unrealistic demands and quotas passed down from more senior management.

Working on the railroad is no picnic and it isn't always as good as it looks.

That said, where else can someone with a high school level of education reach a position to earn $80,000+ annually (in the past this could be $100,000+, but new employees don't have many of the old agreement rights that pre-85 hires have. Even that is changing in the most recent agreements with trip rates and other new methods of pay.

There is also, of course the side benefits of getting to run the train, not that anyone would hire out for that...[;)]

LC

[Anonymous]

Hey Ken...the problem is the time it takes to get an Associates in RR versus a certificate.
Time is not on my side right now.
To be honest I am not even sure what to take anymore.
I have no RR experience, but I do have brains, am physically strong and tough, experienced with shift work , and ex military.
Hell, I would love a Shop Laborer Job here in Houston for UP which is just cleaning and servicing Engines, and moving them around the yard.
I applied for it...and waiting for a response...hey its a start!
Hell, I will even clean the Engine toilets!
Im sure thats in the job description.
[:)]

[Anonymous]

Hey Ken...the problem is the time it takes to get an Associates in RR versus a certificate.
Time is not on my side right now.
To be honest I am not even sure what to take anymore.
I have no RR experience, but I do have brains, am physically strong and tough, experienced with shift work , and ex military.
Hell, I would love a Shop Laborer Job here in Houston for UP which is just cleaning and servicing Engines, and moving them around the yard.
I applied for it...and waiting for a response...hey its a start!
Hell, I will even clean the Engine toilets!
Im sure thats in the job description.
[:)]

[Anonymous]

The bad thing about these schools, is that you pay to be trained as a conductor, or even worse, pay to be Mr. engineer and guess what.........You still have to go to the class 1's training and that is if you have enough seniority to get the bid (for engineer). Yeah good luck! Ney, what's wrong with an Associates degree? Your Bachelor's degree seems to be doing you no good now.
Ken

[Anonymous]

The bad thing about these schools, is that you pay to be trained as a conductor, or even worse, pay to be Mr. engineer and guess what.........You still have to go to the class 1's training and that is if you have enough seniority to get the bid (for engineer). Yeah good luck! Ney, what's wrong with an Associates degree? Your Bachelor's degree seems to be doing you no good now.
Ken

[Anonymous]

Thanks, i went ahead and applied.
Hopefully NS will work out better than my luck with BNSF....
As I just received another automated application response from BNSF.
They are not interested in interviewing me for Conductor School.
Ugh.....

Maybe I should work for free.
[:)]

[Anonymous]

Thanks, i went ahead and applied.
Hopefully NS will work out better than my luck with BNSF....
As I just received another automated application response from BNSF.
They are not interested in interviewing me for Conductor School.
Ugh.....

Maybe I should work for free.
[:)]

[oltmannd]

Try the mgt training program(s). Here's a link to the NS http://www.nscorp.com/nscorp/application?pageid=Careers&category=Careers&contentId=english/nscorp/careers/management_trainees.html

[oltmannd]

Try the mgt training program(s). Here's a link to the NS http://www.nscorp.com/nscorp/application?pageid=Careers&category=Careers&contentId=english/nscorp/careers/management_trainees.html

[Anonymous]

MODAC Engineer Course is $12,000!

[Anonymous]

MODAC Engineer Course is $12,000!

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mike, I was considering doing so, except that elsewhere in these forums I have read numerous times that Railroads prefer to train you "their way".
There is a college just north of me which once offered an Associates Degree in Railroad Operations, but now just offers Dispatcher....
Since, I already have a Bachelors Degree I am not really interested in an Associates degree of any type.
However, I would like to take a course....CSX sounded good but you must live in the area to take the course at the Jacksonville School...I am in Texas...which disqualifies me.
I will check out MODAC if you all have a contrary opinion to whats already been posted about the schools...i.e. not to go.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mike, I was considering doing so, except that elsewhere in these forums I have read numerous times that Railroads prefer to train you "their way".
There is a college just north of me which once offered an Associates Degree in Railroad Operations, but now just offers Dispatcher....
Since, I already have a Bachelors Degree I am not really interested in an Associates degree of any type.
However, I would like to take a course....CSX sounded good but you must live in the area to take the course at the Jacksonville School...I am in Texas...which disqualifies me.
I will check out MODAC if you all have a contrary opinion to whats already been posted about the schools...i.e. not to go.

[mikeyuhas]

Hey ney1815,

Another avenue you might wi***o consider is getting trained *before* you go out railroadin'. For instance, you might care to speak with the people at Modoc Railroad Academy (as advertised in TRAINS magazine) about their programs, and how they might be able to assist with placement.

Kind regards,
Mike

[mikeyuhas]

Hey ney1815,

Another avenue you might wi***o consider is getting trained *before* you go out railroadin'. For instance, you might care to speak with the people at Modoc Railroad Academy (as advertised in TRAINS magazine) about their programs, and how they might be able to assist with placement.

Kind regards,
Mike

[Anonymous]

Here are a few basic truths about working on the railroad.

1. The railroad is a difficult place to work, but the compensation is significant when compared to many jobs at a similar level with other industrial concerns.

2. Railroads have high turnover in certain areas particularly train and engine service. I have heard figures as high as 90% quit in the first 5 years. In my experience it is not that high, but it is higher than many jobs because of the nature of the work. (24/7 call, on the road and away from family, no social life, etc)

3. It takes a certain independent kind of woman to be a railroad wife. My wife refers to herself as a "Railroad Widow".

4. Other jobs on the railroad have issues too and pay is not as good as TY&E. Take for example the Signal Maintainer having a large district. Called out in the worst weather to fix signals and interlockings or make sure the switch heaters work. MOW folks laboring in the hot sun or extreme cold with heavy steel and ties, always looking over your shoulder to avoid that pasing train... The Dispatcher struggling to keep the railroad fluid with too much territory to ever know. Even the Train Master and Roadforeman with too many employees to supervise and unrealistic demands and quotas passed down from more senior management.

Working on the railroad is no picnic and it isn't always as good as it looks.

That said, where else can someone with a high school level of education reach a position to earn $80,000+ annually (in the past this could be $100,000+, but new employees don't have many of the old agreement rights that pre-85 hires have. Even that is changing in the most recent agreements with trip rates and other new methods of pay.

There is also, of course the side benefits of getting to run the train, not that anyone would hire out for that...[;)]

LC

[Anonymous]

Here are a few basic truths about working on the railroad.

1. The railroad is a difficult place to work, but the compensation is significant when compared to many jobs at a similar level with other industrial concerns.

2. Railroads have high turnover in certain areas particularly train and engine service. I have heard figures as high as 90% quit in the first 5 years. In my experience it is not that high, but it is higher than many jobs because of the nature of the work. (24/7 call, on the road and away from family, no social life, etc)

3. It takes a certain independent kind of woman to be a railroad wife. My wife refers to herself as a "Railroad Widow".

4. Other jobs on the railroad have issues too and pay is not as good as TY&E. Take for example the Signal Maintainer having a large district. Called out in the worst weather to fix signals and interlockings or make sure the switch heaters work. MOW folks laboring in the hot sun or extreme cold with heavy steel and ties, always looking over your shoulder to avoid that pasing train... The Dispatcher struggling to keep the railroad fluid with too much territory to ever know. Even the Train Master and Roadforeman with too many employees to supervise and unrealistic demands and quotas passed down from more senior management.

Working on the railroad is no picnic and it isn't always as good as it looks.

That said, where else can someone with a high school level of education reach a position to earn $80,000+ annually (in the past this could be $100,000+, but new employees don't have many of the old agreement rights that pre-85 hires have. Even that is changing in the most recent agreements with trip rates and other new methods of pay.

There is also, of course the side benefits of getting to run the train, not that anyone would hire out for that...[;)]

LC

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard
Mookie was all set to knock over a Hersey's boxcar, but noooo...someone had to go and talk.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[V] The blabbermouth! I will get them for that, too! Just as soon as I find out who!

Mookie

its hard for Matt to talk with all that chocolate in his mouth[:p]
My understanding is CSX is training in Cincinnati and you'd be placed up at walbridge yard in toledo.good luck
stay safe
Joe

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard
Mookie was all set to knock over a Hersey's boxcar, but noooo...someone had to go and talk.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[V] The blabbermouth! I will get them for that, too! Just as soon as I find out who!

Mookie

its hard for Matt to talk with all that chocolate in his mouth[:p]
My understanding is CSX is training in Cincinnati and you'd be placed up at walbridge yard in toledo.good luck
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

Well, I received a response from BNSF for a system engineer (IT) job that I currently have experience in.
I got the generic automated response letter to my online application saying blah blah blah adios, etc.
Maybe they will be more interested in me for the positions I am "not" already qualified for.
LOL!