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U.P. delaying Amtrak

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, September 4, 2003 3:19 PM
...Jim, go to Google and enter in Kay B.H.s name and it brings up her web site...It has all kinds of areas to do communication to her...

Quentin

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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 4, 2003 3:18 PM
jhhtrainsplanes --- UP did get back, and even before the service could start. They forced AMTK to pull off the three Western trains that wre to haul a large percentage of that traffic through one of the AMTK re-authorizations acts. If AMTK had not given in, AMTK would have vanished from the face of the earth. For a while, until the SP merger, I can't think of an AMTK train on UP outside of the old MP.

As a side point, AMTK's foray into the express business was on shaky legal ground from the beginning. The freight roads had, in its charter, made sure that AMTK could not haul any kind of freight or mail. AMTK has been able to get around that to some extent, but they maintain (and in large part it is true) that their inability to carry head-end traffic is a major cause of the high subsidy needed to cover long distance losses. The other major cause is UP not keeping the trains even close to OT.
Eric
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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 4, 2003 3:18 PM
jhhtrainsplanes --- UP did get back, and even before the service could start. They forced AMTK to pull off the three Western trains that wre to haul a large percentage of that traffic through one of the AMTK re-authorizations acts. If AMTK had not given in, AMTK would have vanished from the face of the earth. For a while, until the SP merger, I can't think of an AMTK train on UP outside of the old MP.

As a side point, AMTK's foray into the express business was on shaky legal ground from the beginning. The freight roads had, in its charter, made sure that AMTK could not haul any kind of freight or mail. AMTK has been able to get around that to some extent, but they maintain (and in large part it is true) that their inability to carry head-end traffic is a major cause of the high subsidy needed to cover long distance losses. The other major cause is UP not keeping the trains even close to OT.
Eric
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 4, 2003 1:35 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A


Watch out for those killer rabbits.

Yes Amtrak did P*** off UP (with a capital P) when they were hauling boxcar freight items. Now I understand Amtrak has stopped this service. Any delays caused by this to freight and passenger trains should have stopped.

Someone please post a link to Kay Baily's office so we can bombard it with emails for Amtrak. And don't forget to start bombarding your own state official and federal officials.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 4, 2003 1:35 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A


Watch out for those killer rabbits.

Yes Amtrak did P*** off UP (with a capital P) when they were hauling boxcar freight items. Now I understand Amtrak has stopped this service. Any delays caused by this to freight and passenger trains should have stopped.

Someone please post a link to Kay Baily's office so we can bombard it with emails for Amtrak. And don't forget to start bombarding your own state official and federal officials.
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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 4, 2003 1:12 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.


Is my picture out of focus?

Jen


Yes, Mookie Jen, I think it is. In the Los Angeles area, AMTK operates some commuter lines over freight railroads. On the SF, they run on time. Always have. On the UP, they almost never were on time, and the politcal heat got so intense, the UP, now runs them on time. I heard that the political establishment was going to refuse to permit something that the UP very badly wanted to do that was going to save them lots of money. All it took was one phone call. They haven't been late since.

It is not work ethic. It is money. How much? Absent political pressures, take UP's operating proffit figure. It will take that amount and just a little bit more from AMTK, and you will see the trains run on time. I am not blowing any hot air here. I really wish I were, because this is a sad situation.

See the comments about Cheny and Davidson by Don Oltmann above.
Eric
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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 4, 2003 1:12 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.


Is my picture out of focus?

Jen


Yes, Mookie Jen, I think it is. In the Los Angeles area, AMTK operates some commuter lines over freight railroads. On the SF, they run on time. Always have. On the UP, they almost never were on time, and the politcal heat got so intense, the UP, now runs them on time. I heard that the political establishment was going to refuse to permit something that the UP very badly wanted to do that was going to save them lots of money. All it took was one phone call. They haven't been late since.

It is not work ethic. It is money. How much? Absent political pressures, take UP's operating proffit figure. It will take that amount and just a little bit more from AMTK, and you will see the trains run on time. I am not blowing any hot air here. I really wish I were, because this is a sad situation.

See the comments about Cheny and Davidson by Don Oltmann above.
Eric
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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....So do we know if Amtrak is shown in the employees timetable on the major carriers today...? Anybody privy to that info...?


See Mudchicken's answer and also my statement you are asking about. If the schedule is listed as an "official train", the delayer better keep it OT. But if you have it listed in the Special Instructions, no such requirement.
Eric
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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....So do we know if Amtrak is shown in the employees timetable on the major carriers today...? Anybody privy to that info...?


See Mudchicken's answer and also my statement you are asking about. If the schedule is listed as an "official train", the delayer better keep it OT. But if you have it listed in the Special Instructions, no such requirement.
Eric
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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:38 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A


Money and squeeky wheels. Out of every $ in after tax income, AMTK would have to contribute more than all of the others (coal, UPS, etc.) before UP would pay attention. Because, if by running AMTK on time the coal customer, the UPS customer, and so on, get ticked and move their traffic elsewhere (and they can and have in the past), then AMTK is going to be the one to support UP. I can tell you now, that AMTK is not going to do that, so, UP runs what pays, and runs the rest where there is a hole for it. He who pays the most, runs first.
Eric
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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:38 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A


Money and squeeky wheels. Out of every $ in after tax income, AMTK would have to contribute more than all of the others (coal, UPS, etc.) before UP would pay attention. Because, if by running AMTK on time the coal customer, the UPS customer, and so on, get ticked and move their traffic elsewhere (and they can and have in the past), then AMTK is going to be the one to support UP. I can tell you now, that AMTK is not going to do that, so, UP runs what pays, and runs the rest where there is a hole for it. He who pays the most, runs first.
Eric
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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:37 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A


...they started hauling freight (Roadrailers and express) and *** Davidson has not gotten over it. The UP attitude toward Amtrak is very much rooted in the *** Davidson's oft-voiced opinion that long distance Amtrak trains have no reason to exist.

Now, since Cheney used to be on UP board, do you think the UPs position on Amtrak had any influence on the Bush Adm. position that states should pay for long haul train deficit (a sure way to kill most of the long haul trains)? Think Davidson still talks to Cheney?

...duh!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:37 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A


...they started hauling freight (Roadrailers and express) and *** Davidson has not gotten over it. The UP attitude toward Amtrak is very much rooted in the *** Davidson's oft-voiced opinion that long distance Amtrak trains have no reason to exist.

Now, since Cheney used to be on UP board, do you think the UPs position on Amtrak had any influence on the Bush Adm. position that states should pay for long haul train deficit (a sure way to kill most of the long haul trains)? Think Davidson still talks to Cheney?

...duh!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:20 PM
I am thinking it may be more of a long-term thing - doesn't happen 24/7, but does happen with some frequency. I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc. On a very small scale, a business that has 50 people - 25 of them are in a director position - rest are hourlies. It amazes me how the director positions shove a lot of the work off onto the hourlies - mostly things they don't want to do or don't feel it is worth their so valuable time.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.

In Lincoln - Amtrak is never, never on time - that is why it startled me the other morning when it was on time. But in the big scheme of things - who really cares about what Amtrak is doing in Nebraska. It is running, I assume, cross-country. Not up and down a busy, busy seaboard or thru lots of populated areas. Would love to know how many people are on those trains that go thru here. Probably not very many. So why would Amtrak be more concerned about that than some place more high traffic.

Is my picture out of focus?

Jen

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 4, 2003 12:20 PM
I am thinking it may be more of a long-term thing - doesn't happen 24/7, but does happen with some frequency. I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc. On a very small scale, a business that has 50 people - 25 of them are in a director position - rest are hourlies. It amazes me how the director positions shove a lot of the work off onto the hourlies - mostly things they don't want to do or don't feel it is worth their so valuable time.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.

In Lincoln - Amtrak is never, never on time - that is why it startled me the other morning when it was on time. But in the big scheme of things - who really cares about what Amtrak is doing in Nebraska. It is running, I assume, cross-country. Not up and down a busy, busy seaboard or thru lots of populated areas. Would love to know how many people are on those trains that go thru here. Probably not very many. So why would Amtrak be more concerned about that than some place more high traffic.

Is my picture out of focus?

Jen

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, September 4, 2003 8:30 AM
....I understand like others on here that in many situations in business, money talks and sometimes very loud...In the discussion of how railroad Co's. are in a business agreement to HOW they have an obligation to get Amtrak across their Divisions someone is not doing what is written to be done or to railroad rule books. The operation that produces hours and hours of late schedule for the train everyday, if that is the case...can't be determined by payoffs...it has to be what is written and agreeded to. Someone just has to enforce it. I don't know who that is supposed to be but someone by definition is responsible.

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, September 4, 2003 8:30 AM
....I understand like others on here that in many situations in business, money talks and sometimes very loud...In the discussion of how railroad Co's. are in a business agreement to HOW they have an obligation to get Amtrak across their Divisions someone is not doing what is written to be done or to railroad rule books. The operation that produces hours and hours of late schedule for the train everyday, if that is the case...can't be determined by payoffs...it has to be what is written and agreeded to. Someone just has to enforce it. I don't know who that is supposed to be but someone by definition is responsible.

Quentin

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 4, 2003 6:46 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by pkslayton

Many unit trains now operate on a schedule. You can bet that UPS will spank UP with the big green paddle if they delay a train with their trailers/containers on it. UP is a publicly owned company, they have stock holders. Who do you think the stock holders want kept happy first, UPS or AMTK?


And....who has more $?

Mook

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 4, 2003 6:46 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by pkslayton

Many unit trains now operate on a schedule. You can bet that UPS will spank UP with the big green paddle if they delay a train with their trailers/containers on it. UP is a publicly owned company, they have stock holders. Who do you think the stock holders want kept happy first, UPS or AMTK?


And....who has more $?

Mook

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 11:36 PM
I always thought freight trains had lower priority than passenger trains...
If amtrak is hours late no wonder passenger trains are not popular...
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 11:36 PM
I always thought freight trains had lower priority than passenger trains...
If amtrak is hours late no wonder passenger trains are not popular...
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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 9:58 PM
....Is Amtrak running on the same route that the UPS train does...? I'm referring to the UP part of the route.

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 9:58 PM
....Is Amtrak running on the same route that the UPS train does...? I'm referring to the UP part of the route.

Quentin

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 9:13 PM
Many unit trains now operate on a schedule. You can bet that UPS will spank UP with the big green paddle if they delay a train with their trailers/containers on it. UP is a publicly owned company, they have stock holders. Who do you think the stock holders want kept happy first, UPS or AMTK?
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 9:13 PM
Many unit trains now operate on a schedule. You can bet that UPS will spank UP with the big green paddle if they delay a train with their trailers/containers on it. UP is a publicly owned company, they have stock holders. Who do you think the stock holders want kept happy first, UPS or AMTK?
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 8:13 PM
There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 8:13 PM
There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A
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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 8:02 PM
....So do we know what the "agreement" is between the major rail cariers and Amtrak as to how they must handle the dispatching of Amtrak trains across their divisions....?

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 8:02 PM
....So do we know what the "agreement" is between the major rail cariers and Amtrak as to how they must handle the dispatching of Amtrak trains across their divisions....?

Quentin

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 6:24 PM
modelcar: you won't find passenger train schedules posted in UP's or BNSF's timetables. You will find shedules posted as supplementary information in other places to stick in the back of your TT "as information only"
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

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