U.P. delaying Amtrak

[Anonymous]

When ever I ride Amtrak-which is quite often, and I'm unfortunate enough to be on the U.P. tracks, the delays seem to be rather intentional. Can anyone tell me why the U.P. delays passenger trains so much? Also, if there are any attorney's out there that are irriatated also-let me know-would a class action law suit get U.P.'s attention with this problem.

[Mookie]

Amtrak runs over BNSF here in Lincoln and it startled me this morning - it was almost to the minute on time. Generally it runs about 2-3 hours late!

Maybe a right-wing conspiracy, but more inclined to think it is on Amtrak's side.

But these gentlemen will set us both straight!

Mookie

[Mookie]

Amtrak runs over BNSF here in Lincoln and it startled me this morning - it was almost to the minute on time. Generally it runs about 2-3 hours late!

Maybe a right-wing conspiracy, but more inclined to think it is on Amtrak's side.

But these gentlemen will set us both straight!

Mookie

[mudchicken]

To the UP dispatcher at Omaha, Amtrak is just another train. Under current rules (GCOR), passenger trains are not necessarilly "superior" to other trains, just another extra. Amtrak pays incentives to UPRR for on-time performance and UPRR loses incentive money when it delays trains. BUT, if Amthrax (national rail passenger disease) already is late and is interfering with other trains who are on schedule , oh well! What most do not see is the cascading delay in the system if one train starts delaying everything behind it, the snafu can be huge. The dispatcher is something of a juggling act artist and somebody above him may order to have Amtrak put in the hole to avoid larger problems and lo$$es (airlines do something similar at hub airports). Also Amtrak may fit in the hole (being a relatively short train) where the longer trains have nowhere to get out of the way at.

Asking an "expert at everything, proficient at none" attorney to fix the problem just creates more overhead and a higher ticket price in the end. Don't bother. (too many unavoidable costs and no passenger train at all!) Use the effort & frustration to vent at the local congressman and ask why he's ignoring Amtrak while handing the highway and airline lobbies a virtual blank check.

(P.S. - In my humble opinion, there are too few dispatchers per mile of railroad today. The industrial engineers and efficiency consultants fed the railroad upper management a fairy tale when they convinced them that fewer dispatchers means more efficient. This might also be part of what rayj102 is not seeing. Many a local roadswitcher or track gang never gets out of the hole all day because the ds is swamped! Dispatchers who have zero familiarity with their territories is another issue, especially when that territory is on the othe side of the country as is the case with most of the Class 1's and some of the regionals. )

[mudchicken]

To the UP dispatcher at Omaha, Amtrak is just another train. Under current rules (GCOR), passenger trains are not necessarilly "superior" to other trains, just another extra. Amtrak pays incentives to UPRR for on-time performance and UPRR loses incentive money when it delays trains. BUT, if Amthrax (national rail passenger disease) already is late and is interfering with other trains who are on schedule , oh well! What most do not see is the cascading delay in the system if one train starts delaying everything behind it, the snafu can be huge. The dispatcher is something of a juggling act artist and somebody above him may order to have Amtrak put in the hole to avoid larger problems and lo$$es (airlines do something similar at hub airports). Also Amtrak may fit in the hole (being a relatively short train) where the longer trains have nowhere to get out of the way at.

Asking an "expert at everything, proficient at none" attorney to fix the problem just creates more overhead and a higher ticket price in the end. Don't bother. (too many unavoidable costs and no passenger train at all!) Use the effort & frustration to vent at the local congressman and ask why he's ignoring Amtrak while handing the highway and airline lobbies a virtual blank check.

(P.S. - In my humble opinion, there are too few dispatchers per mile of railroad today. The industrial engineers and efficiency consultants fed the railroad upper management a fairy tale when they convinced them that fewer dispatchers means more efficient. This might also be part of what rayj102 is not seeing. Many a local roadswitcher or track gang never gets out of the hole all day because the ds is swamped! Dispatchers who have zero familiarity with their territories is another issue, especially when that territory is on the othe side of the country as is the case with most of the Class 1's and some of the regionals. )

[Puckdropper]

To prevent delays, what Amtrak needs is its own right of ways. The cost of these would already be signifigant, so why not elevate it and run high-speed trains? I think a route going from St Louis, Chicago, to Milwaukee or Indianapolis could be profitable. Fewer delays, and no grade crossings.

It could even be electified!

[Puckdropper]

To prevent delays, what Amtrak needs is its own right of ways. The cost of these would already be signifigant, so why not elevate it and run high-speed trains? I think a route going from St Louis, Chicago, to Milwaukee or Indianapolis could be profitable. Fewer delays, and no grade crossings.

It could even be electified!

[Willy2]

It would be nice if Amtrak could have its own right of ways, but at this time it doen not look likely so I think that the dispatchers should just be nice to Amtrak. It would be cool[8D] to have an electrified high speed system though.

Willy

[Willy2]

It would be nice if Amtrak could have its own right of ways, but at this time it doen not look likely so I think that the dispatchers should just be nice to Amtrak. It would be cool[8D] to have an electrified high speed system though.

Willy

[Anonymous]

Amtrak has delay's?? No, I don't believe it!! You must be mistaken!! Amtrak is a well run com.....??? Is Amtrak a company?? Who owns it if it is? Are the any outstanding shares of Amtrak?? If it is privatly held, does that mean the goverment owns it??
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Amtrak has delay's?? No, I don't believe it!! You must be mistaken!! Amtrak is a well run com.....??? Is Amtrak a company?? Who owns it if it is? Are the any outstanding shares of Amtrak?? If it is privatly held, does that mean the goverment owns it??
TIM A

[JoeKoh]

congress gives it money that means we own it(?)
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

congress gives it money that means we own it(?)
stay safe
joe

[BentnoseWillie]

Amtrak is a company owned by the US government. It operates over the rails of private railroads except in the Northeast Corridor (NY to DC), which Amtrak owns.

As noted above, passenger trains do not have any priority under the GCOR - priority is assigned by the dispatching railroad. When UP ran its own passenger trains, then those trains had higher priority. Amtrak's on-time incentives are lower than the value of freight traffic, and since UP dispatchers get bonuses based on their contribution to the bottom line (by moving the higher-value freight trraffic), Amtrak trains get stabbed for freight.

No conspiracy, aside from the railroad officials making their own operations thrive, not the operations of a ward of the state.

[BentnoseWillie]

Amtrak is a company owned by the US government. It operates over the rails of private railroads except in the Northeast Corridor (NY to DC), which Amtrak owns.

As noted above, passenger trains do not have any priority under the GCOR - priority is assigned by the dispatching railroad. When UP ran its own passenger trains, then those trains had higher priority. Amtrak's on-time incentives are lower than the value of freight traffic, and since UP dispatchers get bonuses based on their contribution to the bottom line (by moving the higher-value freight trraffic), Amtrak trains get stabbed for freight.

No conspiracy, aside from the railroad officials making their own operations thrive, not the operations of a ward of the state.

[Modelcar]

....I would imagine Amtrak and Railroad Co's have a contract that spells out the do's and don'ts of how the Passenger Trains are to be handled. If that is a fact then I would imagine the dispatching railroad knows the method they signed on to control the movement of Amtrak trains. If this is not being adhered to Congress or whatever controlling body should move in and inforce the fact it must be done as the contract states it will be done. End of discussion. Take action and make it happen....

[Modelcar]

....I would imagine Amtrak and Railroad Co's have a contract that spells out the do's and don'ts of how the Passenger Trains are to be handled. If that is a fact then I would imagine the dispatching railroad knows the method they signed on to control the movement of Amtrak trains. If this is not being adhered to Congress or whatever controlling body should move in and inforce the fact it must be done as the contract states it will be done. End of discussion. Take action and make it happen....

[Mookie]

Congress moved? When did this happen?

Government action against Big Business?

Shirley, sorry - Modelcar you jest! Congress can't get off dead center most of the time and they sure aren't going to mess in the railroad nest. These are some very good people not to tic off. And that is at the top level. Doesn't even address what happens to these big, hardly manageable corporations at about the bottom 1/3 of the ladder.

Cynic Mookie

[Mookie]

Congress moved? When did this happen?

Government action against Big Business?

Shirley, sorry - Modelcar you jest! Congress can't get off dead center most of the time and they sure aren't going to mess in the railroad nest. These are some very good people not to tic off. And that is at the top level. Doesn't even address what happens to these big, hardly manageable corporations at about the bottom 1/3 of the ladder.

Cynic Mookie

[therailnut]

I don't know about anywhere else but here in Galesburg, IL. Everything stops on the BNSF mainline within an hour of amtrak arriving and amtrak departing. The yard control gets in big time trouble if amtrak does not get in and get out of here on time. Amtrak is not to be delayed no matter what. In fact the signals are even cleared probably up to 20 minutes before the arrival of amtrak at the depot here and as soon as it leaves the depot the dispatcher has give it a clear route to where it is going next.

[therailnut]

I don't know about anywhere else but here in Galesburg, IL. Everything stops on the BNSF mainline within an hour of amtrak arriving and amtrak departing. The yard control gets in big time trouble if amtrak does not get in and get out of here on time. Amtrak is not to be delayed no matter what. In fact the signals are even cleared probably up to 20 minutes before the arrival of amtrak at the depot here and as soon as it leaves the depot the dispatcher has give it a clear route to where it is going next.

[Modelcar]

....Jen: "Congress Moved...When did this happen"...It can and just did....How about giving the President permission to go to war...! These "very good people not to tic off"...need to come down where they belong and handle the responsibility that is upon them. I hear you talking about "hardly managable Corp." I'm sure most of the large businesses in this country falls into that catagory but contracts are dealt with every day...It's not rocket science. From what I understand many of the railroads do handle Amtrak as they should or at least make a very good effort to do do every day. UP should step up to the plate and do the same. Honor what they must have agreed to.

[Modelcar]

....Jen: "Congress Moved...When did this happen"...It can and just did....How about giving the President permission to go to war...! These "very good people not to tic off"...need to come down where they belong and handle the responsibility that is upon them. I hear you talking about "hardly managable Corp." I'm sure most of the large businesses in this country falls into that catagory but contracts are dealt with every day...It's not rocket science. From what I understand many of the railroads do handle Amtrak as they should or at least make a very good effort to do do every day. UP should step up to the plate and do the same. Honor what they must have agreed to.

[Mookie]

I agree with you! I am just so disillusioned with govt and how things slide by in big business - Enron for example. We have gone from making people accountable for their actions to "oh well". And when "big business" messes up, they shrug their collective shoulders and start lying! And it is very successful.

Time to head for the hills, but back tomorrow and see if anyone else wants to chime in on this!

Jen

[Mookie]

I agree with you! I am just so disillusioned with govt and how things slide by in big business - Enron for example. We have gone from making people accountable for their actions to "oh well". And when "big business" messes up, they shrug their collective shoulders and start lying! And it is very successful.

Time to head for the hills, but back tomorrow and see if anyone else wants to chime in on this!

Jen

[kenneo]

First - Superiority is not conferred by any Code of Rules. It is conferred by right, class or direction. Class is conferred by timetable, direction by the Rule Book and right is conferred by train order (or track warant). Even in CTC and TWC territories, the above is important to train dispatching. The main import to this thread is the timetable. If AMTK is shown in the employees timetable, it is a superior train subject to any class designations (also timetable) and direction (rule book). If it is not, then it is an extra train and can only operate according to train order (track warant) authority. Any other discussion of superiority exceeds the scope of this thread.

Second. The FRA. These fine upstanding folks bear a large share in the reasons for late AMTK trains. Once upon a time, with the lifetime of us old heads, a train could make up time against its schedule if it became late. This provision was important because a late train causes all opposing trains to become late by twice the amount of time it is late and all following trains by an equal time to it.

(To get a real clear picture of MUDCHICKEN'S snafu, calculate up the delays to each train involved. It will take you about a day or two, and will be HUGE. Then factor the costs of crew time wasted, engine time wasted and car delay time wasted. It can make a person rich.)

In train order and track warant territories where a train has timetable authority, schedule keeping is extremely important. Yet, and so, to show that it was doing its job to keep the American railroading public safe, the FRA made a rule that you could not exceed the posted speed. Period. A provision was made for inaccurate speedometers, but not inaccurate locomotive operation. Soooooooo, once late, always late - no more making up time. The only device a railroad now has to enable a train to make up time is to pad the schedule with extra minutes. Smoke and mirrors.

Third. Incentives. It was mentioned above in the thread that AMTK provides incentives to the freight railroads to operate AMTK on time. It was also mentioned that these incentives were less than the incentive to operate a profit producing freight on time. Once upon a time, a long, long, time ago, within the lifetimes of us old heads, AMTK paid an incentive that exceeded (by a lot) the incentive of operating a freight on time and also, if you made AMTK late, by even one minute, you lost ALL of the incentive you may have earned for that trip and only the penalities applied. Congres, in their CHEAP fasion, forced AMTK to eliminate to old incentives and replace them with the non-incentive incentives in place now.

You may not believe this (and I don't blame you if you don't), but the Coast Starlight acutally brought in more at the fare box than it cost to operate it because on time operation and a real class act by AMTK in providing a fine train. Those were some fine days! The train ran 18 cars in the off season and it was 100% booked 100% of the time.

When there was a lightly padded schedule, excellent incentives and the ability to make up time, yes, Virginia (and you too, Mookie), you really could reliably set your watch by the train. And only God could help you if you were the cause of making the train late.

[kenneo]

First - Superiority is not conferred by any Code of Rules. It is conferred by right, class or direction. Class is conferred by timetable, direction by the Rule Book and right is conferred by train order (or track warant). Even in CTC and TWC territories, the above is important to train dispatching. The main import to this thread is the timetable. If AMTK is shown in the employees timetable, it is a superior train subject to any class designations (also timetable) and direction (rule book). If it is not, then it is an extra train and can only operate according to train order (track warant) authority. Any other discussion of superiority exceeds the scope of this thread.

Second. The FRA. These fine upstanding folks bear a large share in the reasons for late AMTK trains. Once upon a time, with the lifetime of us old heads, a train could make up time against its schedule if it became late. This provision was important because a late train causes all opposing trains to become late by twice the amount of time it is late and all following trains by an equal time to it.

(To get a real clear picture of MUDCHICKEN'S snafu, calculate up the delays to each train involved. It will take you about a day or two, and will be HUGE. Then factor the costs of crew time wasted, engine time wasted and car delay time wasted. It can make a person rich.)

In train order and track warant territories where a train has timetable authority, schedule keeping is extremely important. Yet, and so, to show that it was doing its job to keep the American railroading public safe, the FRA made a rule that you could not exceed the posted speed. Period. A provision was made for inaccurate speedometers, but not inaccurate locomotive operation. Soooooooo, once late, always late - no more making up time. The only device a railroad now has to enable a train to make up time is to pad the schedule with extra minutes. Smoke and mirrors.

Third. Incentives. It was mentioned above in the thread that AMTK provides incentives to the freight railroads to operate AMTK on time. It was also mentioned that these incentives were less than the incentive to operate a profit producing freight on time. Once upon a time, a long, long, time ago, within the lifetimes of us old heads, AMTK paid an incentive that exceeded (by a lot) the incentive of operating a freight on time and also, if you made AMTK late, by even one minute, you lost ALL of the incentive you may have earned for that trip and only the penalities applied. Congres, in their CHEAP fasion, forced AMTK to eliminate to old incentives and replace them with the non-incentive incentives in place now.

You may not believe this (and I don't blame you if you don't), but the Coast Starlight acutally brought in more at the fare box than it cost to operate it because on time operation and a real class act by AMTK in providing a fine train. Those were some fine days! The train ran 18 cars in the off season and it was 100% booked 100% of the time.

When there was a lightly padded schedule, excellent incentives and the ability to make up time, yes, Virginia (and you too, Mookie), you really could reliably set your watch by the train. And only God could help you if you were the cause of making the train late.

[Modelcar]

....So do we know if Amtrak is shown in the employees timetable on the major carriers today...? Anybody privy to that info...?

[Modelcar]

....So do we know if Amtrak is shown in the employees timetable on the major carriers today...? Anybody privy to that info...?

[Anonymous]

I ride Amtrak twice each year, and from my experience, Union Pacific is the worst, on any of their trains. When I ride on Burlington Northern Santa Fe tracks, I always arrive on time. When I ride on the CSX and Norfolk Southern tracks, I always arrive on time. When I ride on Union Pacific tracks, I always arrive hours late. UP get a clue!

It is sooooooo baaaaaaddddd in Texas, our senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is worried about the lously on time arrivals..... See her speech on the Senate floor:

http://hutchison.senate.gov/prl467.htm

The Senator's bill, cosponsored by Senators Conrad Burns, Trent Lott, and Olympia Snowe, will:
* Provide a plan for Amtrak over the next six years, including an allocation of $12 billion in operating expenses
* Establish a national passenger rail system from Amtrak's current routes
* Create an independent non-profit organization, the Rail Infrastructure Finance Corporation (RIFCO), to underwrite $48 billion in government-backed tax credit bonds and administer a trust fund to repay the bonds over twenty years
* Create a rail office at the Department of Transportation to be responsible for recommending capital projects for funding by the RIFCO
* Provide a framework for dispute settlement between freights and Amtrak with the condition that freights accepting federal funds for improvements must allow Amtrak to meet its schedule

"As our country continues to grow and our cities and highways become more congested, it's time for a viable national rail system," Senator Hutchison said. "Americans want an alternative to planes and autos. Amtrak could be that alternative, but we must build it for success, not failure."
Senator Hutchison chairs the Surface Transportation and Merchant Marine Subcommittee of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, which has jurisdiction over Amtrak.

[Anonymous]

I ride Amtrak twice each year, and from my experience, Union Pacific is the worst, on any of their trains. When I ride on Burlington Northern Santa Fe tracks, I always arrive on time. When I ride on the CSX and Norfolk Southern tracks, I always arrive on time. When I ride on Union Pacific tracks, I always arrive hours late. UP get a clue!

It is sooooooo baaaaaaddddd in Texas, our senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is worried about the lously on time arrivals..... See her speech on the Senate floor:

http://hutchison.senate.gov/prl467.htm

The Senator's bill, cosponsored by Senators Conrad Burns, Trent Lott, and Olympia Snowe, will:
* Provide a plan for Amtrak over the next six years, including an allocation of $12 billion in operating expenses
* Establish a national passenger rail system from Amtrak's current routes
* Create an independent non-profit organization, the Rail Infrastructure Finance Corporation (RIFCO), to underwrite $48 billion in government-backed tax credit bonds and administer a trust fund to repay the bonds over twenty years
* Create a rail office at the Department of Transportation to be responsible for recommending capital projects for funding by the RIFCO
* Provide a framework for dispute settlement between freights and Amtrak with the condition that freights accepting federal funds for improvements must allow Amtrak to meet its schedule

"As our country continues to grow and our cities and highways become more congested, it's time for a viable national rail system," Senator Hutchison said. "Americans want an alternative to planes and autos. Amtrak could be that alternative, but we must build it for success, not failure."
Senator Hutchison chairs the Surface Transportation and Merchant Marine Subcommittee of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, which has jurisdiction over Amtrak.

[mudchicken]

modelcar: you won't find passenger train schedules posted in UP's or BNSF's timetables. You will find shedules posted as supplementary information in other places to stick in the back of your TT "as information only"

[mudchicken]

modelcar: you won't find passenger train schedules posted in UP's or BNSF's timetables. You will find shedules posted as supplementary information in other places to stick in the back of your TT "as information only"

[Modelcar]

....So do we know what the "agreement" is between the major rail cariers and Amtrak as to how they must handle the dispatching of Amtrak trains across their divisions....?

[Modelcar]

....So do we know what the "agreement" is between the major rail cariers and Amtrak as to how they must handle the dispatching of Amtrak trains across their divisions....?

[Anonymous]

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

[Anonymous]

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Many unit trains now operate on a schedule. You can bet that UPS will spank UP with the big green paddle if they delay a train with their trailers/containers on it. UP is a publicly owned company, they have stock holders. Who do you think the stock holders want kept happy first, UPS or AMTK?

[Anonymous]

Many unit trains now operate on a schedule. You can bet that UPS will spank UP with the big green paddle if they delay a train with their trailers/containers on it. UP is a publicly owned company, they have stock holders. Who do you think the stock holders want kept happy first, UPS or AMTK?

[Modelcar]

....Is Amtrak running on the same route that the UPS train does...? I'm referring to the UP part of the route.

[Modelcar]

....Is Amtrak running on the same route that the UPS train does...? I'm referring to the UP part of the route.

[Anonymous]

I always thought freight trains had lower priority than passenger trains...
If amtrak is hours late no wonder passenger trains are not popular...

[Anonymous]

I always thought freight trains had lower priority than passenger trains...
If amtrak is hours late no wonder passenger trains are not popular...

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pkslayton

Many unit trains now operate on a schedule. You can bet that UPS will spank UP with the big green paddle if they delay a train with their trailers/containers on it. UP is a publicly owned company, they have stock holders. Who do you think the stock holders want kept happy first, UPS or AMTK?

And....who has more $?

Mook

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pkslayton

Many unit trains now operate on a schedule. You can bet that UPS will spank UP with the big green paddle if they delay a train with their trailers/containers on it. UP is a publicly owned company, they have stock holders. Who do you think the stock holders want kept happy first, UPS or AMTK?

And....who has more $?

Mook

[Modelcar]

....I understand like others on here that in many situations in business, money talks and sometimes very loud...In the discussion of how railroad Co's. are in a business agreement to HOW they have an obligation to get Amtrak across their Divisions someone is not doing what is written to be done or to railroad rule books. The operation that produces hours and hours of late schedule for the train everyday, if that is the case...can't be determined by payoffs...it has to be what is written and agreeded to. Someone just has to enforce it. I don't know who that is supposed to be but someone by definition is responsible.

[Modelcar]

....I understand like others on here that in many situations in business, money talks and sometimes very loud...In the discussion of how railroad Co's. are in a business agreement to HOW they have an obligation to get Amtrak across their Divisions someone is not doing what is written to be done or to railroad rule books. The operation that produces hours and hours of late schedule for the train everyday, if that is the case...can't be determined by payoffs...it has to be what is written and agreeded to. Someone just has to enforce it. I don't know who that is supposed to be but someone by definition is responsible.

[Mookie]

I am thinking it may be more of a long-term thing - doesn't happen 24/7, but does happen with some frequency. I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc. On a very small scale, a business that has 50 people - 25 of them are in a director position - rest are hourlies. It amazes me how the director positions shove a lot of the work off onto the hourlies - mostly things they don't want to do or don't feel it is worth their so valuable time.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.

In Lincoln - Amtrak is never, never on time - that is why it startled me the other morning when it was on time. But in the big scheme of things - who really cares about what Amtrak is doing in Nebraska. It is running, I assume, cross-country. Not up and down a busy, busy seaboard or thru lots of populated areas. Would love to know how many people are on those trains that go thru here. Probably not very many. So why would Amtrak be more concerned about that than some place more high traffic.

Is my picture out of focus?

Jen

[Mookie]

I am thinking it may be more of a long-term thing - doesn't happen 24/7, but does happen with some frequency. I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc. On a very small scale, a business that has 50 people - 25 of them are in a director position - rest are hourlies. It amazes me how the director positions shove a lot of the work off onto the hourlies - mostly things they don't want to do or don't feel it is worth their so valuable time.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.

In Lincoln - Amtrak is never, never on time - that is why it startled me the other morning when it was on time. But in the big scheme of things - who really cares about what Amtrak is doing in Nebraska. It is running, I assume, cross-country. Not up and down a busy, busy seaboard or thru lots of populated areas. Would love to know how many people are on those trains that go thru here. Probably not very many. So why would Amtrak be more concerned about that than some place more high traffic.

Is my picture out of focus?

Jen

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

...they started hauling freight (Roadrailers and express) and *** Davidson has not gotten over it. The UP attitude toward Amtrak is very much rooted in the *** Davidson's oft-voiced opinion that long distance Amtrak trains have no reason to exist.

Now, since Cheney used to be on UP board, do you think the UPs position on Amtrak had any influence on the Bush Adm. position that states should pay for long haul train deficit (a sure way to kill most of the long haul trains)? Think Davidson still talks to Cheney?

...duh!

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

...they started hauling freight (Roadrailers and express) and *** Davidson has not gotten over it. The UP attitude toward Amtrak is very much rooted in the *** Davidson's oft-voiced opinion that long distance Amtrak trains have no reason to exist.

Now, since Cheney used to be on UP board, do you think the UPs position on Amtrak had any influence on the Bush Adm. position that states should pay for long haul train deficit (a sure way to kill most of the long haul trains)? Think Davidson still talks to Cheney?

...duh!

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

Money and squeeky wheels. Out of every $ in after tax income, AMTK would have to contribute more than all of the others (coal, UPS, etc.) before UP would pay attention. Because, if by running AMTK on time the coal customer, the UPS customer, and so on, get ticked and move their traffic elsewhere (and they can and have in the past), then AMTK is going to be the one to support UP. I can tell you now, that AMTK is not going to do that, so, UP runs what pays, and runs the rest where there is a hole for it. He who pays the most, runs first.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

Money and squeeky wheels. Out of every $ in after tax income, AMTK would have to contribute more than all of the others (coal, UPS, etc.) before UP would pay attention. Because, if by running AMTK on time the coal customer, the UPS customer, and so on, get ticked and move their traffic elsewhere (and they can and have in the past), then AMTK is going to be the one to support UP. I can tell you now, that AMTK is not going to do that, so, UP runs what pays, and runs the rest where there is a hole for it. He who pays the most, runs first.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....So do we know if Amtrak is shown in the employees timetable on the major carriers today...? Anybody privy to that info...?

See Mudchicken's answer and also my statement you are asking about. If the schedule is listed as an "official train", the delayer better keep it OT. But if you have it listed in the Special Instructions, no such requirement.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....So do we know if Amtrak is shown in the employees timetable on the major carriers today...? Anybody privy to that info...?

See Mudchicken's answer and also my statement you are asking about. If the schedule is listed as an "official train", the delayer better keep it OT. But if you have it listed in the Special Instructions, no such requirement.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.


Is my picture out of focus?

Jen

Yes, Mookie Jen, I think it is. In the Los Angeles area, AMTK operates some commuter lines over freight railroads. On the SF, they run on time. Always have. On the UP, they almost never were on time, and the politcal heat got so intense, the UP, now runs them on time. I heard that the political establishment was going to refuse to permit something that the UP very badly wanted to do that was going to save them lots of money. All it took was one phone call. They haven't been late since.

It is not work ethic. It is money. How much? Absent political pressures, take UP's operating proffit figure. It will take that amount and just a little bit more from AMTK, and you will see the trains run on time. I am not blowing any hot air here. I really wish I were, because this is a sad situation.

See the comments about Cheny and Davidson by Don Oltmann above.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.


Is my picture out of focus?

Jen

Yes, Mookie Jen, I think it is. In the Los Angeles area, AMTK operates some commuter lines over freight railroads. On the SF, they run on time. Always have. On the UP, they almost never were on time, and the politcal heat got so intense, the UP, now runs them on time. I heard that the political establishment was going to refuse to permit something that the UP very badly wanted to do that was going to save them lots of money. All it took was one phone call. They haven't been late since.

It is not work ethic. It is money. How much? Absent political pressures, take UP's operating proffit figure. It will take that amount and just a little bit more from AMTK, and you will see the trains run on time. I am not blowing any hot air here. I really wish I were, because this is a sad situation.

See the comments about Cheny and Davidson by Don Oltmann above.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

Watch out for those killer rabbits.

Yes Amtrak did P*** off UP (with a capital P) when they were hauling boxcar freight items. Now I understand Amtrak has stopped this service. Any delays caused by this to freight and passenger trains should have stopped.

Someone please post a link to Kay Baily's office so we can bombard it with emails for Amtrak. And don't forget to start bombarding your own state official and federal officials.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

Watch out for those killer rabbits.

Yes Amtrak did P*** off UP (with a capital P) when they were hauling boxcar freight items. Now I understand Amtrak has stopped this service. Any delays caused by this to freight and passenger trains should have stopped.

Someone please post a link to Kay Baily's office so we can bombard it with emails for Amtrak. And don't forget to start bombarding your own state official and federal officials.

[kenneo]

jhhtrainsplanes --- UP did get back, and even before the service could start. They forced AMTK to pull off the three Western trains that wre to haul a large percentage of that traffic through one of the AMTK re-authorizations acts. If AMTK had not given in, AMTK would have vanished from the face of the earth. For a while, until the SP merger, I can't think of an AMTK train on UP outside of the old MP.

As a side point, AMTK's foray into the express business was on shaky legal ground from the beginning. The freight roads had, in its charter, made sure that AMTK could not haul any kind of freight or mail. AMTK has been able to get around that to some extent, but they maintain (and in large part it is true) that their inability to carry head-end traffic is a major cause of the high subsidy needed to cover long distance losses. The other major cause is UP not keeping the trains even close to OT.

[kenneo]

jhhtrainsplanes --- UP did get back, and even before the service could start. They forced AMTK to pull off the three Western trains that wre to haul a large percentage of that traffic through one of the AMTK re-authorizations acts. If AMTK had not given in, AMTK would have vanished from the face of the earth. For a while, until the SP merger, I can't think of an AMTK train on UP outside of the old MP.

As a side point, AMTK's foray into the express business was on shaky legal ground from the beginning. The freight roads had, in its charter, made sure that AMTK could not haul any kind of freight or mail. AMTK has been able to get around that to some extent, but they maintain (and in large part it is true) that their inability to carry head-end traffic is a major cause of the high subsidy needed to cover long distance losses. The other major cause is UP not keeping the trains even close to OT.

[Modelcar]

...Jim, go to Google and enter in Kay B.H.s name and it brings up her web site...It has all kinds of areas to do communication to her...

[Modelcar]

...Jim, go to Google and enter in Kay B.H.s name and it brings up her web site...It has all kinds of areas to do communication to her...

[Modelcar]

....There is no escaping the position of the present Adminstration...They simply want to kill off Amtrak, no matter how it's accomplished.

[Modelcar]

....There is no escaping the position of the present Adminstration...They simply want to kill off Amtrak, no matter how it's accomplished.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes
Someone please post a link to Kay Baily's office so we can bombard it with emails for Amtrak. And don't forget to start bombarding your own state official and federal officials.

Why would we want to do that??
As a taxpayer I am getting very discussed with the waste I see with the Amtrak mess. Seems they keep throwing good money at the bad. I believe most of us here agree, Amtrac is broke in more way's then one. They need to come up with a sound workable plan to address the problems. Until they do, why give them support or money??
TIM A

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes
Someone please post a link to Kay Baily's office so we can bombard it with emails for Amtrak. And don't forget to start bombarding your own state official and federal officials.

Why would we want to do that??
As a taxpayer I am getting very discussed with the waste I see with the Amtrak mess. Seems they keep throwing good money at the bad. I believe most of us here agree, Amtrac is broke in more way's then one. They need to come up with a sound workable plan to address the problems. Until they do, why give them support or money??
TIM A

[Anonymous]

I live in a small town about 30 minutes from downtown Fort Worth, Texas. Since I cannot fly, due to an inner ear condition, VERTIGO, and since my town no longer has any scheduled bus service, the only option other than driving long distances is riding on Amtrak! Fortunately, for me, I live about 30 minutes away from two Texas Eagle stops: Fort Worth and Cleburne.

Fort Worth has built a brand new intermodal facility to handle Amtrak trains, the Trinity River Express commuter train, and the city's T buses, whereas Cleburne has a wonderfully restored unmanned Santa Fe depot.

Unfortunately, the Texas Eagle runs mostly on Union Pacific tracks formally Missouri Pacific and Texas & Pacific tracks, as does the Sunset Limited west of New Orleans on formally Southern Pacific tracks. Yes, the Texas Eagle does run on formally Santa Fe tracks south of Fort Worth to Temple. I may be mistaken, but I believe the Texas Eagle runs on formally Illinois Central Gulf tracks in Illinois.

The California Zephyr runs on Union Pacific tracks, formally Western Pacific, west of Salt Lake City, I think.

[Anonymous]

I live in a small town about 30 minutes from downtown Fort Worth, Texas. Since I cannot fly, due to an inner ear condition, VERTIGO, and since my town no longer has any scheduled bus service, the only option other than driving long distances is riding on Amtrak! Fortunately, for me, I live about 30 minutes away from two Texas Eagle stops: Fort Worth and Cleburne.

Fort Worth has built a brand new intermodal facility to handle Amtrak trains, the Trinity River Express commuter train, and the city's T buses, whereas Cleburne has a wonderfully restored unmanned Santa Fe depot.

Unfortunately, the Texas Eagle runs mostly on Union Pacific tracks formally Missouri Pacific and Texas & Pacific tracks, as does the Sunset Limited west of New Orleans on formally Southern Pacific tracks. Yes, the Texas Eagle does run on formally Santa Fe tracks south of Fort Worth to Temple. I may be mistaken, but I believe the Texas Eagle runs on formally Illinois Central Gulf tracks in Illinois.

The California Zephyr runs on Union Pacific tracks, formally Western Pacific, west of Salt Lake City, I think.

[corwinda]

QUOTE: Originally posted by donclark
[
The California Zephyr runs on Union Pacific tracks, formally Western Pacific, west of Salt Lake City, I think.

From Denver west the CZ runs on UP (I'm not sure east of Denver). Denver to Salt Lake and Wells NV west it is on former SP track. Salt Lake to Wells is on former WP.

[corwinda]

QUOTE: Originally posted by donclark
[
The California Zephyr runs on Union Pacific tracks, formally Western Pacific, west of Salt Lake City, I think.

From Denver west the CZ runs on UP (I'm not sure east of Denver). Denver to Salt Lake and Wells NV west it is on former SP track. Salt Lake to Wells is on former WP.

[Modelcar]

....Chicken or the egg...Which came first. Seems to be a parellel to Amtrak. Bad service and then on the other side, not enough money to run a suitable service...How can it made better...If the service is stopped, that will be the end of a national passenger service in this country. If we want that service we [our leaders], better fix it while it's still running so one has something to fix. I would not mind paying if we had something we could be proud to use.

[Modelcar]

....Chicken or the egg...Which came first. Seems to be a parellel to Amtrak. Bad service and then on the other side, not enough money to run a suitable service...How can it made better...If the service is stopped, that will be the end of a national passenger service in this country. If we want that service we [our leaders], better fix it while it's still running so one has something to fix. I would not mind paying if we had something we could be proud to use.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....Chicken or the egg...Which came first. Seems to be a parellel to Amtrak. Bad service and then on the other side, not enough money to run a suitable service...How can it made better...If the service is stopped, that will be the end of a national passenger service in this country. If we want that service we [our leaders], better fix it while it's still running so one has something to fix. I would not mind paying if we had something we could be proud to use.

THE FREIGHT RAILROADS WILL NOT ALLOW ANOTHER PROVIDER TO OPERATE PASSENGER TRAIN SERVICE. IF AMTRAK DIES ALL AMERICAN PASSENGER SERVICE GOES WITH IT. IF YOU WANT PASSENGER SERVICE IT IS NOW OR NEVER. THE ONLY WAY AMTRAK WILL IMPROVE IS TO IMPROVE ITS FUNDING. FUNDING WILL NOT IMPROVE UNLESS WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DEMAND AMTRAK BE PROPERLY FUNDED. IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT AMTRAK NOW YOU WILL HAVE NOTHING TO SUPPORT LATER.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....Chicken or the egg...Which came first. Seems to be a parellel to Amtrak. Bad service and then on the other side, not enough money to run a suitable service...How can it made better...If the service is stopped, that will be the end of a national passenger service in this country. If we want that service we [our leaders], better fix it while it's still running so one has something to fix. I would not mind paying if we had something we could be proud to use.

THE FREIGHT RAILROADS WILL NOT ALLOW ANOTHER PROVIDER TO OPERATE PASSENGER TRAIN SERVICE. IF AMTRAK DIES ALL AMERICAN PASSENGER SERVICE GOES WITH IT. IF YOU WANT PASSENGER SERVICE IT IS NOW OR NEVER. THE ONLY WAY AMTRAK WILL IMPROVE IS TO IMPROVE ITS FUNDING. FUNDING WILL NOT IMPROVE UNLESS WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DEMAND AMTRAK BE PROPERLY FUNDED. IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT AMTRAK NOW YOU WILL HAVE NOTHING TO SUPPORT LATER.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Jim, go to Google and enter in Kay B.H.s name and it brings up her web site...It has all kinds of areas to do communication to her...

Thank you, will do, and I hope others will too.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Jim, go to Google and enter in Kay B.H.s name and it brings up her web site...It has all kinds of areas to do communication to her...

Thank you, will do, and I hope others will too.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....There is no escaping the position of the present Adminstration...They simply want to kill off Amtrak, no matter how it's accomplished.

I do agree with your posts. We must do something and do it soon. If we do nothing that is exactly what we will have -- nothing. We must make the best of what we have now and not let it get any worse. It will take money, money, and more money. But it must be done or our common carrier choices will be airplane or bus.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....There is no escaping the position of the present Adminstration...They simply want to kill off Amtrak, no matter how it's accomplished.

I do agree with your posts. We must do something and do it soon. If we do nothing that is exactly what we will have -- nothing. We must make the best of what we have now and not let it get any worse. It will take money, money, and more money. But it must be done or our common carrier choices will be airplane or bus.

[edblysard]

Hi Jim,
Try hutchison.senate.gov
then click on the how to contact me link.
Bombard her office at will!
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

Watch out for those killer rabbits.

Yes Amtrak did P*** off UP (with a capital P) when they were hauling boxcar freight items. Now I understand Amtrak has stopped this service. Any delays caused by this to freight and passenger trains should have stopped.

Someone please post a link to Kay Baily's office so we can bombard it with emails for Amtrak. And don't forget to start bombarding your own state official and federal officials.

[edblysard]

Hi Jim,
Try hutchison.senate.gov
then click on the how to contact me link.
Bombard her office at will!
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

There has to be a logical reason why Union Pacific is delaying Amtrak. I would like to hear there side of the story before I pass judgment. My feeling is, Amtrak did something to tick (upset) Union Pacific.
Anybody have any idea's as to why U.P. is angry????
TIM A

Watch out for those killer rabbits.

Yes Amtrak did P*** off UP (with a capital P) when they were hauling boxcar freight items. Now I understand Amtrak has stopped this service. Any delays caused by this to freight and passenger trains should have stopped.

Someone please post a link to Kay Baily's office so we can bombard it with emails for Amtrak. And don't forget to start bombarding your own state official and federal officials.

[Anonymous]

The best way to handle UP's derliction of duty is to not ship on UP! That is what TXU did....Inside joke at TXu, its former President of Operations used to be a submariner who hated to fly. With the late arrival times of both the Texas Eagle and the Sunset Limited, it didn't take him long to switch his coal shipments to Burlington Northern Santa Fe !

[Anonymous]

The best way to handle UP's derliction of duty is to not ship on UP! That is what TXU did....Inside joke at TXu, its former President of Operations used to be a submariner who hated to fly. With the late arrival times of both the Texas Eagle and the Sunset Limited, it didn't take him long to switch his coal shipments to Burlington Northern Santa Fe !

[Anonymous]

therailnut should take a long hard look at bnsf handling of trains and will find that they do not go out of their way to delay Amtrak, but at the same time if it is a choice of a intemodal or time sensetive train guess wo wins.


Also the schedule padding has gotten to the point of pony express speeds.


Ringer
GOD BLESS THE GREAT NORTHERN

[Anonymous]

therailnut should take a long hard look at bnsf handling of trains and will find that they do not go out of their way to delay Amtrak, but at the same time if it is a choice of a intemodal or time sensetive train guess wo wins.


Also the schedule padding has gotten to the point of pony express speeds.


Ringer
GOD BLESS THE GREAT NORTHERN

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.


Is my picture out of focus?

Jen

Yes, Mookie Jen, I think it is. In the Los Angeles area, AMTK operates some commuter lines over freight railroads. On the SF, they run on time. Always have. On the UP, they almost never were on time, and the politcal heat got so intense, the UP, now runs them on time. I heard that the political establishment was going to refuse to permit something that the UP very badly wanted to do that was going to save them lots of money. All it took was one phone call. They haven't been late since.

It is not work ethic. It is money. How much? Absent political pressures, take UP's operating proffit figure. It will take that amount and just a little bit more from AMTK, and you will see the trains run on time. I am not blowing any hot air here. I really wish I were, because this is a sad situation.

See the comments about Cheny and Davidson by Don Oltmann above.

ok - i will readjust my focus. I am looking at this from my very small world, which is the higher ups will push work off onto the hourlies. But I guess on a national scale, they play a little different. But when it all trickles down into the little cracks and gets to a more local level, then maybe my point applies sometime. But I am heartened to hear that the earth moved and someone listened! Good for them!

Jen

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I also think it may be a little bit of work ethic, sloppiness in your job, complacency, etc.

So apply this to railroads. Several cogs in the big wheel are lazy, incompetent, not the most motivated - you have them in every job. As long as someone that is bigger, louder and much more important than they are - doesn't come down on them for an inadequate job - well, you get the picture.


Is my picture out of focus?

Jen

Yes, Mookie Jen, I think it is. In the Los Angeles area, AMTK operates some commuter lines over freight railroads. On the SF, they run on time. Always have. On the UP, they almost never were on time, and the politcal heat got so intense, the UP, now runs them on time. I heard that the political establishment was going to refuse to permit something that the UP very badly wanted to do that was going to save them lots of money. All it took was one phone call. They haven't been late since.

It is not work ethic. It is money. How much? Absent political pressures, take UP's operating proffit figure. It will take that amount and just a little bit more from AMTK, and you will see the trains run on time. I am not blowing any hot air here. I really wish I were, because this is a sad situation.

See the comments about Cheny and Davidson by Don Oltmann above.

ok - i will readjust my focus. I am looking at this from my very small world, which is the higher ups will push work off onto the hourlies. But I guess on a national scale, they play a little different. But when it all trickles down into the little cracks and gets to a more local level, then maybe my point applies sometime. But I am heartened to hear that the earth moved and someone listened! Good for them!

Jen

[Anonymous]

Amtrak paid the $20 million incentive to CSX, NS, BNSF, all of these railroads made the easy target of 90% on time arrivals. However, UP didn't get the incentive bonus. No wonder, when Amtrak trains on UP pulls in on time around 50%. Not even close..... Obviously, it starts at the top of the organization. BNSF takes the attitude that they are getting $20 million a year doing what they should be doing, gettting the trains, all of the trains, in on time. Too bad, UP don't think alike.

When an utility, such as TXU is upset with the timely arrivals of their coal trains, the bread and butter of freight railroads, something is amiss....

[Anonymous]

Amtrak paid the $20 million incentive to CSX, NS, BNSF, all of these railroads made the easy target of 90% on time arrivals. However, UP didn't get the incentive bonus. No wonder, when Amtrak trains on UP pulls in on time around 50%. Not even close..... Obviously, it starts at the top of the organization. BNSF takes the attitude that they are getting $20 million a year doing what they should be doing, gettting the trains, all of the trains, in on time. Too bad, UP don't think alike.

When an utility, such as TXU is upset with the timely arrivals of their coal trains, the bread and butter of freight railroads, something is amiss....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by donclark Obviously, it starts at the top of the organization. BNSF takes the attitude that they are getting $20 million a year doing what they should be doing, gettting the trains, all of the trains, in on time. Too bad, UP don't think alike.

Maybe Amtrak made the 20 million dollar mistake. For Union Pacific to walk away from easy money like that, Amtrak must have really Tee'd the U.P. off. Perhaps there is a method to the maddness.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by donclark Obviously, it starts at the top of the organization. BNSF takes the attitude that they are getting $20 million a year doing what they should be doing, gettting the trains, all of the trains, in on time. Too bad, UP don't think alike.

Maybe Amtrak made the 20 million dollar mistake. For Union Pacific to walk away from easy money like that, Amtrak must have really Tee'd the U.P. off. Perhaps there is a method to the maddness.
TIM A

[jchnhtfd]

May I (humbly?) point out that it is possible to run a freight railroad to a schedule, on time, all the time, or very close to it? And at passenger train speeds? If you don't believe me, or can't find a US example, kindly look at the way Canadian National operates.

The problem is a bit more universal than UP, although perhaps UP is the worst offender. All railroads are going to have to learn to run all of their business to a schedule, and run the trains fast. It can be done -- CN has shown the way -- and it must be done, as otherwise the freight business will evaporate, too. If they can learn to do it right, then this particular problem -- Amtrak's on time performance -- will evaporate.

Incidentally, Amtrak's on time perfomance isn't all that bad -- have any of you checked the airlines' on time performance stats lately?

Good luck...

[jchnhtfd]

May I (humbly?) point out that it is possible to run a freight railroad to a schedule, on time, all the time, or very close to it? And at passenger train speeds? If you don't believe me, or can't find a US example, kindly look at the way Canadian National operates.

The problem is a bit more universal than UP, although perhaps UP is the worst offender. All railroads are going to have to learn to run all of their business to a schedule, and run the trains fast. It can be done -- CN has shown the way -- and it must be done, as otherwise the freight business will evaporate, too. If they can learn to do it right, then this particular problem -- Amtrak's on time performance -- will evaporate.

Incidentally, Amtrak's on time perfomance isn't all that bad -- have any of you checked the airlines' on time performance stats lately?

Good luck...

[Anonymous]

I have a trip scheduled 9-12 from LRK to AUS. It would fit my schedule better if train 21 was a couple of hours late. Train 22 could be 5 hours late. The arrival times here in Little Rock are atrocious! Arriving in San Antonio, TX at midnight, is that any way to run a passenger train?

[Anonymous]

I have a trip scheduled 9-12 from LRK to AUS. It would fit my schedule better if train 21 was a couple of hours late. Train 22 could be 5 hours late. The arrival times here in Little Rock are atrocious! Arriving in San Antonio, TX at midnight, is that any way to run a passenger train?

[Anonymous]

back in the old days before amtrak appeared. many railroads that had there own passenger service. naming santa fe pennsy. new york central and othere railroads thsat had passenger service ..passenger service had priority over freight as these were first class train, whe ever a passenger train was due , and there was a freight train ahead .the dispatcher would notify teh freight crew we are putting a siding or back over onto the other main and wait until the first class trai cleared .that how it wass in the old days because all passenger trains wrew running an timetable speed

[Anonymous]

back in the old days before amtrak appeared. many railroads that had there own passenger service. naming santa fe pennsy. new york central and othere railroads thsat had passenger service ..passenger service had priority over freight as these were first class train, whe ever a passenger train was due , and there was a freight train ahead .the dispatcher would notify teh freight crew we are putting a siding or back over onto the other main and wait until the first class trai cleared .that how it wass in the old days because all passenger trains wrew running an timetable speed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tom Stuart

I have a trip scheduled 9-12 from LRK to AUS. It would fit my schedule better if train 21 was a couple of hours late. Train 22 could be 5 hours late. The arrival times here in Little Rock are atrocious! Arriving in San Antonio, TX at midnight, is that any way to run a passenger train?

Hello Tom, I live in NLR and agree "our" time slot isn't the best in the world. Anytime I or any of my friends have travel from or to Little Rock the train is usually late. A few times the northbound Amtrak and the southbound Amtrak have passed each other near Little Rock, which should not happen.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tom Stuart

I have a trip scheduled 9-12 from LRK to AUS. It would fit my schedule better if train 21 was a couple of hours late. Train 22 could be 5 hours late. The arrival times here in Little Rock are atrocious! Arriving in San Antonio, TX at midnight, is that any way to run a passenger train?

Hello Tom, I live in NLR and agree "our" time slot isn't the best in the world. Anytime I or any of my friends have travel from or to Little Rock the train is usually late. A few times the northbound Amtrak and the southbound Amtrak have passed each other near Little Rock, which should not happen.

[Anonymous]

Well let's see . there was a time in america we loved our passenger trains so beautiful so sleek and shiney.. boy you could not tell us nothing about our trains. now skip to todays trains. well now uncle sam's in the picture. think about it look how our trains are they have ditch lights that flash when aproaching agrade crossing. they have limited time for employees to be on trains. and nobody seems to want amtrak anymore but uncle sam keeps telling us that we do but does'nt really want to give the money or support it really needs and with amtrak it's people seem like their not intrested anymore. i my self believe that we in this country should take pride in amtrak make her our passenger train of the decade. we can use the gov' t but let amtrak do the things she use too do. put real food back onthe trains. with people cooking . with specials that will attract people. make special events. and to big class 1's . try making it with passenger trains . as far as respect and courtesy towords one another.. this my friends will work...

[Anonymous]

Well let's see . there was a time in america we loved our passenger trains so beautiful so sleek and shiney.. boy you could not tell us nothing about our trains. now skip to todays trains. well now uncle sam's in the picture. think about it look how our trains are they have ditch lights that flash when aproaching agrade crossing. they have limited time for employees to be on trains. and nobody seems to want amtrak anymore but uncle sam keeps telling us that we do but does'nt really want to give the money or support it really needs and with amtrak it's people seem like their not intrested anymore. i my self believe that we in this country should take pride in amtrak make her our passenger train of the decade. we can use the gov' t but let amtrak do the things she use too do. put real food back onthe trains. with people cooking . with specials that will attract people. make special events. and to big class 1's . try making it with passenger trains . as far as respect and courtesy towords one another.. this my friends will work...

[Modelcar]

....I'm afraid the class 1's can't and won't handle the process of running a fleet of passenger trains now with the economic climate we live in. They for sure are not a money making venture...and if it effects the bottom line as such, it won't happen. Of course that's why Amtrak is here now....The class 1's couldn't afford to run a suitable fleet anymore without excess losses. So if we want passenger trains we must somehow work out a better system and a method of paying for them then we have now.

[Modelcar]

....I'm afraid the class 1's can't and won't handle the process of running a fleet of passenger trains now with the economic climate we live in. They for sure are not a money making venture...and if it effects the bottom line as such, it won't happen. Of course that's why Amtrak is here now....The class 1's couldn't afford to run a suitable fleet anymore without excess losses. So if we want passenger trains we must somehow work out a better system and a method of paying for them then we have now.

[os Ottawa]

I recently made a round trip to Texas from Chicago on the Eagle. I understand the Desoto Sub is no longer the UP's main southbound route from St Louis so the track has numerous slow orders. Since this portion of the trip is in the dead of night I was unable to determine our speed. We were well over an hour late into Little Rock but thanks to a padded schedule we arrived on time into Ft Worth. The return trip was made on a "Sunset day" so train 22 was 4 hours late departing Ft Worth. I was told this is a normal occurance on the days the train connects with number 2. We remained 4 hours off schedule all the way to Chicago. This time the trip over the Desoto Sub was in daylight and we crawled along in some spots. We were delayed before arrival in St Louis due to freight cross traffic. I was told by an Amtrak employee in Chicago that Amtrak and the UP had recently reached some sort of agreement where the UP would cooperate a bit more with Amtrak.
While in Ft Worth I visited the BNSF control center and one of the huge screens in front of all of the dispatchers monitered Amtrak on time percentages and incentives.

[os Ottawa]

I recently made a round trip to Texas from Chicago on the Eagle. I understand the Desoto Sub is no longer the UP's main southbound route from St Louis so the track has numerous slow orders. Since this portion of the trip is in the dead of night I was unable to determine our speed. We were well over an hour late into Little Rock but thanks to a padded schedule we arrived on time into Ft Worth. The return trip was made on a "Sunset day" so train 22 was 4 hours late departing Ft Worth. I was told this is a normal occurance on the days the train connects with number 2. We remained 4 hours off schedule all the way to Chicago. This time the trip over the Desoto Sub was in daylight and we crawled along in some spots. We were delayed before arrival in St Louis due to freight cross traffic. I was told by an Amtrak employee in Chicago that Amtrak and the UP had recently reached some sort of agreement where the UP would cooperate a bit more with Amtrak.
While in Ft Worth I visited the BNSF control center and one of the huge screens in front of all of the dispatchers monitered Amtrak on time percentages and incentives.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by os Ottawa

I recently made a round trip to Texas from Chicago on the Eagle. I understand the Desoto Sub is no longer the UP's main southbound route from St Louis so the track has numerous slow orders. Since this portion of the trip is in the dead of night I was unable to determine our speed. We were well over an hour late into Little Rock but thanks to a padded schedule we arrived on time into Ft Worth. The return trip was made on a "Sunset day" so train 22 was 4 hours late departing Ft Worth. I was told this is a normal occurance on the days the train connects with number 2. We remained 4 hours off schedule all the way to Chicago. This time the trip over the Desoto Sub was in daylight and we crawled along in some spots. We were delayed before arrival in St Louis due to freight cross traffic. I was told by an Amtrak employee in Chicago that Amtrak and the UP had recently reached some sort of agreement where the UP would cooperate a bit more with Amtrak.
While in Ft Worth I visited the BNSF control center and one of the huge screens in front of all of the dispatchers monitered Amtrak on time percentages and incentives.

I believe it is common for the northbound Eagle to be more late than the southbound Eagle for the exact reason you memtioned. From Chicago and south Amtrak doesn't have to wait for another passenger train arrival. At least they didn't, I don't know if the Missouri Mule comes into play here or not. (Maybe someone can tell us.) When having to wait on the Sunset Limited the Eagle becomes late. I watch the Amtrak web site occasionally and check to see if the Little Rock trains are running on time or not. I have seen them make up some of the time lost but I bet it is very hard to make it all up. (Again, maybe someone can add to this.) I sincerely hope that UP is really going to be more friendly toward Amtrak. If they are then it makes me wonder what UP wants in return.

Ottawa, please sir, can you add to your last statement about the control center and the on time percentages and incentives. This is interesting and could be very important. Please elaborate on it as much as you can. Thank you for doing so.[:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by os Ottawa

I recently made a round trip to Texas from Chicago on the Eagle. I understand the Desoto Sub is no longer the UP's main southbound route from St Louis so the track has numerous slow orders. Since this portion of the trip is in the dead of night I was unable to determine our speed. We were well over an hour late into Little Rock but thanks to a padded schedule we arrived on time into Ft Worth. The return trip was made on a "Sunset day" so train 22 was 4 hours late departing Ft Worth. I was told this is a normal occurance on the days the train connects with number 2. We remained 4 hours off schedule all the way to Chicago. This time the trip over the Desoto Sub was in daylight and we crawled along in some spots. We were delayed before arrival in St Louis due to freight cross traffic. I was told by an Amtrak employee in Chicago that Amtrak and the UP had recently reached some sort of agreement where the UP would cooperate a bit more with Amtrak.
While in Ft Worth I visited the BNSF control center and one of the huge screens in front of all of the dispatchers monitered Amtrak on time percentages and incentives.

I believe it is common for the northbound Eagle to be more late than the southbound Eagle for the exact reason you memtioned. From Chicago and south Amtrak doesn't have to wait for another passenger train arrival. At least they didn't, I don't know if the Missouri Mule comes into play here or not. (Maybe someone can tell us.) When having to wait on the Sunset Limited the Eagle becomes late. I watch the Amtrak web site occasionally and check to see if the Little Rock trains are running on time or not. I have seen them make up some of the time lost but I bet it is very hard to make it all up. (Again, maybe someone can add to this.) I sincerely hope that UP is really going to be more friendly toward Amtrak. If they are then it makes me wonder what UP wants in return.

Ottawa, please sir, can you add to your last statement about the control center and the on time percentages and incentives. This is interesting and could be very important. Please elaborate on it as much as you can. Thank you for doing so.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Amtrak, as we all know, is in big time trouble. The company is fighting finacial problems, and that could be a very large factor in U.P. delaying Amtrak's services. I don't blame U.P. They have many more obligations to fulfill than just Amtrak(besides, these other obligations at least have money) Example-U.P.S. / but back to the subject, i just recently rode a train up to Chicago on the U.P. The train was right on time, and in fact, we were early in our arrival to Union Station. Maybe i should ride the train more often and see what all of you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Amtrak, as we all know, is in big time trouble. The company is fighting finacial problems, and that could be a very large factor in U.P. delaying Amtrak's services. I don't blame U.P. They have many more obligations to fulfill than just Amtrak(besides, these other obligations at least have money) Example-U.P.S. / but back to the subject, i just recently rode a train up to Chicago on the U.P. The train was right on time, and in fact, we were early in our arrival to Union Station. Maybe i should ride the train more often and see what all of you are talking about.

[kenneo]

UPRR-MDC -- If you were riding a commuter or state supported AMTK train on the UP, it most probably was on time. If the UP wants to do anything in the affected state, that state must approve it it one form or another. Ergo, UP treats these trains very nicely. Not so AMTK Fed-only supported trains.

[kenneo]

UPRR-MDC -- If you were riding a commuter or state supported AMTK train on the UP, it most probably was on time. If the UP wants to do anything in the affected state, that state must approve it it one form or another. Ergo, UP treats these trains very nicely. Not so AMTK Fed-only supported trains.

[Mookie]

Amtrak officials must read the Trains Forum. 2 days in a row and Amtrak has been on time or pretty close to it. Hmmmm.....

Mookie

[Mookie]

Amtrak officials must read the Trains Forum. 2 days in a row and Amtrak has been on time or pretty close to it. Hmmmm.....

Mookie

[zardoz]

The Amtrak trains between Chicago and Milwaukee are very rarely interfered with by the CP. From what I hear on the scanner, the CP goes out of its way to accomodate the Amtrak trains (7 daily round trip "locals", plus #7&8). Granted, having two-track CTC helps, but the CP does seem to try.

[zardoz]

The Amtrak trains between Chicago and Milwaukee are very rarely interfered with by the CP. From what I hear on the scanner, the CP goes out of its way to accomodate the Amtrak trains (7 daily round trip "locals", plus #7&8). Granted, having two-track CTC helps, but the CP does seem to try.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Amtrak officials must read the Trains Forum. 2 days in a row and Amtrak has been on time or pretty close to it. Hmmmm.....

Mookie

Madam La M, We are still working 10 hour shifts so I am getting off at 2 am. I don't go to bed now until 5 or 6 am. This morning I remembered Tom Stuart's trip and wanted to see how his train was doing so I checked the Amtrak site. Remember he said it would be better for him if the train was late. It is due in Little Rock at 4:30 am for the southbound to Dallas and beyond. The train was actually about 10 minutes EARLY. IT DEPARTED ON TIME. This train is running on UP (ex MOPAC) tracks. WOW, maybe UP has turned over a new leaf.

It will be interesting if Tom S makes another post and tells us more about his trip.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Amtrak officials must read the Trains Forum. 2 days in a row and Amtrak has been on time or pretty close to it. Hmmmm.....

Mookie

Madam La M, We are still working 10 hour shifts so I am getting off at 2 am. I don't go to bed now until 5 or 6 am. This morning I remembered Tom Stuart's trip and wanted to see how his train was doing so I checked the Amtrak site. Remember he said it would be better for him if the train was late. It is due in Little Rock at 4:30 am for the southbound to Dallas and beyond. The train was actually about 10 minutes EARLY. IT DEPARTED ON TIME. This train is running on UP (ex MOPAC) tracks. WOW, maybe UP has turned over a new leaf.

It will be interesting if Tom S makes another post and tells us more about his trip.

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz1

The Amtrak trains between Chicago and Milwaukee are very rarely interfered with by the CP. From what I hear on the scanner, the CP goes out of its way to accomodate the Amtrak trains (7 daily round trip "locals", plus #7&8). Granted, having two-track CTC helps, but the CP does seem to try.

Again humbly... CP has learned the benefits of a scheduled railroad, too. Amazing... I like to think that CN was 'first' (in the 21st century) but CP had to learn to keep at least even with the competition!

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz1

The Amtrak trains between Chicago and Milwaukee are very rarely interfered with by the CP. From what I hear on the scanner, the CP goes out of its way to accomodate the Amtrak trains (7 daily round trip "locals", plus #7&8). Granted, having two-track CTC helps, but the CP does seem to try.

Again humbly... CP has learned the benefits of a scheduled railroad, too. Amazing... I like to think that CN was 'first' (in the 21st century) but CP had to learn to keep at least even with the competition!

[kenneo]

UP has not turned over a new leaf. I and a group of 10 others went to Portland Union Station to catch #500 (from Eugene) to Seattle. UP had delayed # 500 at origin to run a freight ahead with a setout at Albany, where the freight went on the ground blocking #500. Arrived in Portland 2 hours late on 110 mile run. The Portland connection for the Empire Builder (#7), train #27, having run from Chicago via CP and BNSF, arrived 20 minutes early.

Returning on #509, we were ahead at every station stop until Vancouver (BNSF) where a tug and barge had the Columbia Draw open against us. Departed Vancouver 20 mins late, arrived in Portland 15 mins late. AMTK gave us less that 5 minutes to off load and load to make it within the "required to keep the train on time" 20 minute window. They made it with #509 departing 18 minutes late from Portland. Of course, it was much later into Eugene.

[kenneo]

UP has not turned over a new leaf. I and a group of 10 others went to Portland Union Station to catch #500 (from Eugene) to Seattle. UP had delayed # 500 at origin to run a freight ahead with a setout at Albany, where the freight went on the ground blocking #500. Arrived in Portland 2 hours late on 110 mile run. The Portland connection for the Empire Builder (#7), train #27, having run from Chicago via CP and BNSF, arrived 20 minutes early.

Returning on #509, we were ahead at every station stop until Vancouver (BNSF) where a tug and barge had the Columbia Draw open against us. Departed Vancouver 20 mins late, arrived in Portland 15 mins late. AMTK gave us less that 5 minutes to off load and load to make it within the "required to keep the train on time" 20 minute window. They made it with #509 departing 18 minutes late from Portland. Of course, it was much later into Eugene.