CSX engine fire..

[edblysard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1
Your right,Wabash, I havent seen any rebuilds either.
In fact, we get about 5 GE C30s down here each week, in TILX and Furx marks, still painted in BN green, and they are being shipped overseas to China.
Any locomotive where someone as skinny as me has to turn sideways to get through the door belongs in China.!
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D] you could get 2 ge for 1 emd. and during the power crunch they bought what was avalible. now you are seeing a swing back to emd. and some of the older worn emd units are getting rebuilt. i have yet to see any of those ge units getting rebuilt.

[edblysard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1
Your right,Wabash, I havent seen any rebuilds either.
In fact, we get about 5 GE C30s down here each week, in TILX and Furx marks, still painted in BN green, and they are being shipped overseas to China.
Any locomotive where someone as skinny as me has to turn sideways to get through the door belongs in China.!
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D] you could get 2 ge for 1 emd. and during the power crunch they bought what was avalible. now you are seeing a swing back to emd. and some of the older worn emd units are getting rebuilt. i have yet to see any of those ge units getting rebuilt.

[wabash1]

when i was hanging around the people who sleep for a living with the railroad( mech dept) the biggest cost was ge engines slways something going wrong with the electrical from main generator to traction motors. the cost of regular maintance was a little higher but was within reason. main problems in the engine was injectors. the dash 9 units would brake a fuel line going into the injectors and flood the engine with fuel. the main reason for all the ge units was cost. 2 for 1. you could get 2 ge for 1 emd. and during the power crunch they bought what was avalible. now you are seeing a swing back to emd. and some of the older worn emd units are getting rebuilt. i have yet to see any of those ge units getting rebuilt.

[wabash1]

when i was hanging around the people who sleep for a living with the railroad( mech dept) the biggest cost was ge engines slways something going wrong with the electrical from main generator to traction motors. the cost of regular maintance was a little higher but was within reason. main problems in the engine was injectors. the dash 9 units would brake a fuel line going into the injectors and flood the engine with fuel. the main reason for all the ge units was cost. 2 for 1. you could get 2 ge for 1 emd. and during the power crunch they bought what was avalible. now you are seeing a swing back to emd. and some of the older worn emd units are getting rebuilt. i have yet to see any of those ge units getting rebuilt.

[kenneo]

The EMD's stay around for ever. SP SD9's built in 1953 still operate all over the place. BN still operates 567 engined EMD's. GP 30's, one of the most problem plauged locomotives they put out (GP/SD 24, 35, 45 were the others) got a "kit fix" and is still around working. In fact, of the 4 really problem children from EMD, only the SD-24 is gone. All of the others got fixes and work hard still to this day. Even after 50 years.

[kenneo]

The EMD's stay around for ever. SP SD9's built in 1953 still operate all over the place. BN still operates 567 engined EMD's. GP 30's, one of the most problem plauged locomotives they put out (GP/SD 24, 35, 45 were the others) got a "kit fix" and is still around working. In fact, of the 4 really problem children from EMD, only the SD-24 is gone. All of the others got fixes and work hard still to this day. Even after 50 years.

[Mookie]

Ed - I am so glad you are back here - I always learn something from you!

Mudchix - no argument there! Have a Ford, too!

Mookie

[Mookie]

Ed - I am so glad you are back here - I always learn something from you!

Mudchix - no argument there! Have a Ford, too!

Mookie

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrw249

At a recent BNSF auction for older GE and EMD units, the bidders wanted the EMD units, not the GE units. That says something!!!!

Ed very good comments. I have talked to a lot of engineers and most of them do not want a GE even close to their consist. For years I have heard about GE 's rough ride, frequent wheel slips and slow loading.

jrw The auction does say alot. I have noticed that short lines and regionals do like EMD over GE. Is that because of maintenance costs or acquisition costs or other reasons? It would be interesting to see a comparison between EMD and GE as far as maintenance costs are concerned. That might be hard to come by. I would also like to see how many older GE units are still in operating condition and compare that to like models of EMD units. Food for thought. Now who can feed us?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrw249

At a recent BNSF auction for older GE and EMD units, the bidders wanted the EMD units, not the GE units. That says something!!!!

Ed very good comments. I have talked to a lot of engineers and most of them do not want a GE even close to their consist. For years I have heard about GE 's rough ride, frequent wheel slips and slow loading.

jrw The auction does say alot. I have noticed that short lines and regionals do like EMD over GE. Is that because of maintenance costs or acquisition costs or other reasons? It would be interesting to see a comparison between EMD and GE as far as maintenance costs are concerned. That might be hard to come by. I would also like to see how many older GE units are still in operating condition and compare that to like models of EMD units. Food for thought. Now who can feed us?

[mudchicken]

VERY well stated Ed. Now that the fact that GE's beancounters control the mechanical engineers at Erie is out in the open and they have fingers in everything else (via G E Capital), maybe they'll try brain surgery next. Is there some relationship between those same beancounters and Ford?

[mudchicken]

VERY well stated Ed. Now that the fact that GE's beancounters control the mechanical engineers at Erie is out in the open and they have fingers in everything else (via G E Capital), maybe they'll try brain surgery next. Is there some relationship between those same beancounters and Ford?

[jrw249]

At a recent BNSF auction for older GE and EMD units, the bidders wanted the EMD units, not the GE units. That says something!!!!

[jrw249]

At a recent BNSF auction for older GE and EMD units, the bidders wanted the EMD units, not the GE units. That says something!!!!

[edblysard]

Heres my two cents worth, even though I just ride them, instead of run them.
Keep in mind that EMD has always built locomotives, nothing else, and GE was, and still is an electric appliance maker.
When EMD bacame part of General Motors, they had a vast supply of talented designers and engineers to draw from, add to that the fact that once they had a design for something, anything, and it worked and worked well, they didnt change it.
Little details that you wouldnt think made a diffference do, in fact, make EMDs a lot better built machine.
Something a simple as the hinges on the hood doors.
On GEs, they are bolted in place or tack welded.
On EMDs, they are welded all the way around, the entire seam is welded, not just spot welded.
I hate getting on a GE, the pilot steps are almost straight up, on EMDs, they have enough angle to make it easy.
Appearently no one at GE has figured out that humans are going to be running their locomotives, the doors on them are to narrow, even for me, and I aint that big!
The cabs are a joke. Who would want to spent 12 hours in a seat that dosnt adjust?
None of the controls are laid out in a user friendly manner, and you cant see out the back of them, so if you are running long hood forward, the crew has to sit hunched down trying to look under the radiator wings for signals.

Another plus for EMD is again their assocation with GM. Almost everything on a EMD is standardized.
Your SD90Mac it put together almost no differently than the GP7.
I dont mean the parts are the same, but the way they are installed is.
They found that a nut and bolt with a nylon insert dosnt vibrate lose from the radio, so they stick with that combination, even in their "new" locomotives.
When ever two pieces of sheet metal come together, they weld the entire seam, instead of a few spot welds.
Why go through the extra trouble?
Because they know these things arnt going to be parked under a carport at night, they will be outside in the weather all their lives, and a seam that is welded its entire length wont let water seep in between, and start rusting the metal, plus its stronger to weld the entire thing.
Something as simple as the bracket that holds the under frame cables for traction motors can show you the big difference.
On GEs the clamp or bracket is held in place by a bolt.
Its cheaper and faster to do that when you are building the locomotive.
Now, after ten years in the rain and snow, mud and crud that sticks to the underside of a locomotive, you think that bolt can be turned?
No way, if they need to change the cable or drop the traction motors off, that bolt will have to be cut off with a torch.
On a SD90, that same clamp is up on the side of the frame, out of the weather, and its welded in place.
They have learned from experience that no matter what, its going to have to be cut off with a torch, so they put it in a place you can reach, and made sure it wouldnt flex or vibrate lose.
Little things like that add up to a much better machine.
Ever had a knob come off of something like your radio or tv?
Get on a older GE, and just about everything that needs a knob to turn is missing the knob, they use a press fit knob, and it wears out and vibrates lose.
Get on a EMD, and all the knobs are there, you cant pull them off, because the knobs have a set screw in them to keep them form vibrating lose, and falling off.
They carry this philisophy all the way through the entire locomotive.
If a pressure, or torque to fit bolt would do, bet on EMD having a lockwasher and captured nut there instead.
Where two little bolts are on the GE, EMD has one huge bolt.
Lastly, if you ever get to ride a GE, unless your are used to being on big machines that move, you will be seasick ten minutes after you reach track speed!
If you like going up and down and side to side for 12 hours in a cheap locomotive, then GE is your machine.
If you want a solid, stable and realiable locomotive, then buy a EMD.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Heres my two cents worth, even though I just ride them, instead of run them.
Keep in mind that EMD has always built locomotives, nothing else, and GE was, and still is an electric appliance maker.
When EMD bacame part of General Motors, they had a vast supply of talented designers and engineers to draw from, add to that the fact that once they had a design for something, anything, and it worked and worked well, they didnt change it.
Little details that you wouldnt think made a diffference do, in fact, make EMDs a lot better built machine.
Something a simple as the hinges on the hood doors.
On GEs, they are bolted in place or tack welded.
On EMDs, they are welded all the way around, the entire seam is welded, not just spot welded.
I hate getting on a GE, the pilot steps are almost straight up, on EMDs, they have enough angle to make it easy.
Appearently no one at GE has figured out that humans are going to be running their locomotives, the doors on them are to narrow, even for me, and I aint that big!
The cabs are a joke. Who would want to spent 12 hours in a seat that dosnt adjust?
None of the controls are laid out in a user friendly manner, and you cant see out the back of them, so if you are running long hood forward, the crew has to sit hunched down trying to look under the radiator wings for signals.

Another plus for EMD is again their assocation with GM. Almost everything on a EMD is standardized.
Your SD90Mac it put together almost no differently than the GP7.
I dont mean the parts are the same, but the way they are installed is.
They found that a nut and bolt with a nylon insert dosnt vibrate lose from the radio, so they stick with that combination, even in their "new" locomotives.
When ever two pieces of sheet metal come together, they weld the entire seam, instead of a few spot welds.
Why go through the extra trouble?
Because they know these things arnt going to be parked under a carport at night, they will be outside in the weather all their lives, and a seam that is welded its entire length wont let water seep in between, and start rusting the metal, plus its stronger to weld the entire thing.
Something as simple as the bracket that holds the under frame cables for traction motors can show you the big difference.
On GEs the clamp or bracket is held in place by a bolt.
Its cheaper and faster to do that when you are building the locomotive.
Now, after ten years in the rain and snow, mud and crud that sticks to the underside of a locomotive, you think that bolt can be turned?
No way, if they need to change the cable or drop the traction motors off, that bolt will have to be cut off with a torch.
On a SD90, that same clamp is up on the side of the frame, out of the weather, and its welded in place.
They have learned from experience that no matter what, its going to have to be cut off with a torch, so they put it in a place you can reach, and made sure it wouldnt flex or vibrate lose.
Little things like that add up to a much better machine.
Ever had a knob come off of something like your radio or tv?
Get on a older GE, and just about everything that needs a knob to turn is missing the knob, they use a press fit knob, and it wears out and vibrates lose.
Get on a EMD, and all the knobs are there, you cant pull them off, because the knobs have a set screw in them to keep them form vibrating lose, and falling off.
They carry this philisophy all the way through the entire locomotive.
If a pressure, or torque to fit bolt would do, bet on EMD having a lockwasher and captured nut there instead.
Where two little bolts are on the GE, EMD has one huge bolt.
Lastly, if you ever get to ride a GE, unless your are used to being on big machines that move, you will be seasick ten minutes after you reach track speed!
If you like going up and down and side to side for 12 hours in a cheap locomotive, then GE is your machine.
If you want a solid, stable and realiable locomotive, then buy a EMD.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[JoeKoh]

anyone bring the marshmallows?
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

anyone bring the marshmallows?
stay safe
joe

[Mookie]

Wow - Chuck - they really are "toasters"!

Mookie

[Mookie]

Wow - Chuck - they really are "toasters"!

Mookie

[Anonymous]

Here's one of those AC4400CW's that suffered some fire damage...

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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=23704

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- Chuck Somerville

[Anonymous]

Here's one of those AC4400CW's that suffered some fire damage...

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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=23704

---

- Chuck Somerville

[David3]

Hey, did anybody read the article in the TRAINS news wire today about the Amtrak Acela locomotive fire? It was in the HHP-8 electric locomtive. [?] Does anybody know how hard it is to put a fire out in an electric locomotive because I don't? I imagine it's pretty hard with all the electricity, if anybody knows how you would going about putting out a fire in an electric locomotive, please let me know on here, or e-mail me. [^] David

[David3]

Hey, did anybody read the article in the TRAINS news wire today about the Amtrak Acela locomotive fire? It was in the HHP-8 electric locomtive. [?] Does anybody know how hard it is to put a fire out in an electric locomotive because I don't? I imagine it's pretty hard with all the electricity, if anybody knows how you would going about putting out a fire in an electric locomotive, please let me know on here, or e-mail me. [^] David

[wabash1]

kevin dont bother me. I can tell that he is full of it. then again what do you exspect from a conductor. if he eats emds for breakfast its cause he dont want junk food he wants the real thing. there isnt a GE engine running that could catch or out do any emd. why are they buying so many GE engines. its simple. you need 2 GE engines to do what 1 emd will do. then you need to carry a spare for when 1 of those brake down. this is why you see so many ge engines on a train. and only 2 emd on a train.

[wabash1]

kevin dont bother me. I can tell that he is full of it. then again what do you exspect from a conductor. if he eats emds for breakfast its cause he dont want junk food he wants the real thing. there isnt a GE engine running that could catch or out do any emd. why are they buying so many GE engines. its simple. you need 2 GE engines to do what 1 emd will do. then you need to carry a spare for when 1 of those brake down. this is why you see so many ge engines on a train. and only 2 emd on a train.

[mudchicken]

(1) Engine fires are somewhat rare & diesel fuel does not burn easily. What is more likely to burn is the lubricating oil & crater in the sump. Keep the engine clean inside & out plus have a good cooling system and those chances are reduced further. (From experience, have worked derailments where lumber car caught fire & spread to locomotive consist, set crankcase oil on fire & diesel fuel was boiling in the fuel tank but not catching fire. Fire was so hot that the bell partially melted.)

(2) Mooks: Uncle Sam (Justice Dept.) does not want to see GE have a monopoly on the locomotive business (it was EMD 25 years ago, the roles have changed) that would have an effect on the nations commerce and the national defense (read stracnet)...they don't set the rules, they just turn up the regulatory pressure when brand "A" gets too much market dominance over brand "X". ....On a related note, really wierd to see the new, 10 ft. tall ALCO sign on the sign of the NRE shop building at Mt. Vernon, IL (Old C&EI Locomotive shops, later Precision National)....

(3) It wasn't that long ago here that an Amtrak "brick" (Genesis Unit) burned up in Arvada, CO on the Zephyr and the local fire department discovered that the roof of the locomotive was fibreglass instead of steel. (fireman almost fell through the roof)

(4) from ironken, joekoh & wabash, it sounds like all the savings on the technotoasters is getting blown out the stack. What shop forces(?) are left to fix em? Problem we see out west are locomotives with rack settings (carbeuration) set for 500 ft. elevation when we're at 6000-8000 ft. of elevation and the units are starving for air in the combustion chambers. Makes a lot of the new locomotives "honorary Alcos" smoking it up for the fans here....

[mudchicken]

(1) Engine fires are somewhat rare & diesel fuel does not burn easily. What is more likely to burn is the lubricating oil & crater in the sump. Keep the engine clean inside & out plus have a good cooling system and those chances are reduced further. (From experience, have worked derailments where lumber car caught fire & spread to locomotive consist, set crankcase oil on fire & diesel fuel was boiling in the fuel tank but not catching fire. Fire was so hot that the bell partially melted.)

(2) Mooks: Uncle Sam (Justice Dept.) does not want to see GE have a monopoly on the locomotive business (it was EMD 25 years ago, the roles have changed) that would have an effect on the nations commerce and the national defense (read stracnet)...they don't set the rules, they just turn up the regulatory pressure when brand "A" gets too much market dominance over brand "X". ....On a related note, really wierd to see the new, 10 ft. tall ALCO sign on the sign of the NRE shop building at Mt. Vernon, IL (Old C&EI Locomotive shops, later Precision National)....

(3) It wasn't that long ago here that an Amtrak "brick" (Genesis Unit) burned up in Arvada, CO on the Zephyr and the local fire department discovered that the roof of the locomotive was fibreglass instead of steel. (fireman almost fell through the roof)

(4) from ironken, joekoh & wabash, it sounds like all the savings on the technotoasters is getting blown out the stack. What shop forces(?) are left to fix em? Problem we see out west are locomotives with rack settings (carbeuration) set for 500 ft. elevation when we're at 6000-8000 ft. of elevation and the units are starving for air in the combustion chambers. Makes a lot of the new locomotives "honorary Alcos" smoking it up for the fans here....

[zardoz]

Mookie-
I seem to remember something like that from way back when (does this make me an old-timer?). How interesting locomotives might be nopw if such a law was in existence back when ALCO and Fairbanks-Morse were manufacturing locomotives.